Weather wreaks havoc with airline operations, but it can also become an excuse. There may be clear skies where you are, where you’re flying, and everywhere in-between but earlier in the day the same place you’ll be on was affected by weather and your flight delay is treated as weather-related (and so the airline owes you nothing).
While weather is an excuse-all, it often really is an excuse. Passengers shouldn’t want an airline to try to fly when it’s dangerous. Lightning will shut down the ramp. But some airlines are better in weather than others, and better recovering from weather than others.
Delta used to run a great operation. Much of the time they can still be marginally more on-time than peers, but when major events hit they struggle more than others with recovey. That’s largely been pinned on their pilot contract and how they have to sequentially contact pilots to pick up open trips in a way that takes too long to actually get flights out.
I flew American Airlines out of Washington’s National airport last week when the airport’s operations were shut down due to weather. Our inbound aircraft diverted to Baltimore, and when the airport re-opened it (and many other flights) had to get back into the air. That caused a three hour delay that wasn’t American’s fault.
It was all attributable to weather, but we experienced another hour-long delay after the plane was on the ground and the previous passengers had deplaned. We were missing one flight attendant to operate the flight. They never showed up, and were eventually replaced by another crewmember that American had on reserve.
I had gotten to the airport a couple of hours before my flight because I was done for the day, and I hit the Capital One Landing which remains my favorite bank ‘lounge’ by far.
After sitting there awhile, I moved to the American Airlines Admirals Club on the E concourse. This remains my favorite Admirals Club space.
It was semi-busy, because of the weather disruption, and the sign out front that lounge day passes were suspended almost made sense. But I noted a few days ago seeing this sign out front of Philadephia A West around noon when that place was completely empty.
I saw a similar ‘no day passes’ sign out in front of the Admirals Club in the Philadelphia airport B-C connector before 8 a.m. when that place was largely deserted as well. In my experience these signs are just left there and can reasonably be ignored. Just go up to the desk and ask to use a day pass – you may or may not be welcomed, but that’s largely independent of whether the sign is out. This matters because day passes are now marketed to both Citi Executive and AAdvantage Globe cardmembers.
It wouldn’t be an airport, of course, without an emotional support dog checking into a lounge right after me.
And just as the Philadelphia Flagship’s soda dispenser wasn’t functioning last weekend, the Coke Freestyle machine here wasn’t either (it only dispensed water).
The hour-long delay waiting for crew was actually more frustrating than the three hour delay waiting for a plane. That’s because American did not post the delay until around the original departure time. And there was no indication of when they might show up, we kept getting told they were on the ground and would be there any minute. So everyone stood around the gate for an hour (some pople sat, but there aren’t close to enough seats on the concourse).
That delay was crew. And at root it’s because American doesn’t have all of its flight attendants travel together across a sequence of flights.
When a single flight delays into a hub, that can cause delays across several more flights.
- That plane will be operating another flight
- So will pilots who go their separate way
- And flight attendants disperse
When planes and crew travel together, one delayed flight delays the next one. When they don’t, delays multiply. It isn’t easy to keep everyone – flight attendants and pilots together completely – they have different maximum legal and contractual duty periods. But skewing in that direction is better for reliability.
Legacy American (prior to being taken over by US Airways) often favored keeping crews, and sometimes crews plus aircraft, together for reliability, but this wasn’t universal. Here’s a crew-pairing paper from decades ago on keeping crews with aircraft as long as practicable. Twenty years ago American said it had “increased crew co-pairing with the aircraft” to improve dependability.
US Airways tended to disperse planes, pilots and crew much more broadly. However, in 2021 American began selectively reversing the dispersion. 97% of cockpit and cabin crews transiting DFW from 10 a.m. – 7 p.m. were connecting together.
Alaska Airlines has actually been “teaming” keeping pilots and flight attendants together for multiple segments about a third of the time.
It generally makes the most sense to keep tails and crews together across hubs, especially during heavy congestion periods, late in the day, and during periods likely to be disrupted by weather (like summer evenings in the Northeast).
American Airlines Admirals Club on the E concourse is nice, especially when i was there, last year, when my AA flightvwas delayed an hour, and then AA was calling me becaused it moved the deparure up 15 minutes and i had to finally realize that my ringing phone was not a scam call but AA calling me and I hurried down the stairs to the gate to be the last paasenger to embark.
AA Admirals Flagship lounges in MIA ORD, and JFK are better.
AA’s loyalty to PHL and its reliance on BA’s decidedly average Sapphire lounge (if not closed) in IAD prevents me from being too loyal to AA at its continued use of DCA as a hub.
Here’s how it played at JFK yesterday on AA525 JFK MIA.
– Arrive at gate from lounge for 11:05a boarding, 11:45a departure. No aircraft. Ask gate agent, who shrugs and says it’s still in the hanger. I mention the ON TIME on the board and she says that’s what they tell me.
– 11:15a announcement of gate change. It’s a long walk to new gate and we don’t finish boarding until 12:45p. Bags aren’t loaded, they’re still at the first gate. Thunderstorm hits, ramp closes.
– 1:30p ramp opens and bags arrive for loading. Captain reports new routing will require more fuel but there’s a long line waiting. Gate agent boards and tells everyone they can get off the aircraft if they want, and about 1/2 do. 1:40p the fuel truck arrives and finishes at 1:50p. We have a window for departure but 1/2 the passengers have to reboard, which takes another 30 minutes. Another thunderstorm, ramp closes.
– 3:00p we push from gate. Taxiways are clogged, we’re getting nowhere for an hour. Captain says with all this taxi even the extra fuel isn’t enough and we have to go back to gate. Return takes another hour. Long wait for fuel trucks, plus captain ops for more water and recatering. Gate agent invites passengers to deboard, about 1/2 do again.
– At 5:00p Captain says we have another window to depart. Another 30 minutes to get passengers back on. Gate agent announces she’s lost count of who is on or off and all boarding passes must be rescanned. Tries using a mobile scanner but it’s taking over a minute per passenger. She gives up after 4 people. Much discussion with Captain. Another storm starts, ramp closes.
– At 5:45p, people are losing it. Captain senses the shift and orders everyone off the plane. Says crew are in no danger of timing out but we need a reset.
– At 6:00p gate agent announces crew has timed out. Replacement crew is in the airport and on the way. At 7:00p, no crew and no updates from gate. At 8:00p, no crew and no updates from gate. Crowd getting restless. A captain arrives to cheers. He’s not our captain, just using the computer. At 9:00p, another announcement that crew is in the airport and on the way. 10:00p, flight rescheduled for 10:30a Sunday.
No one can fix the weather, that’s not on AA. But the series of operational bad decisions that continued throughout the day are just mind-boggling. From start to finish it’s just a disaster of mistakes that compound the situation to the point it’s not recoverable.
the mental midget sitting in his dry house in Texas as floods surround him is the last person to have a clue what goes on in the real world.
The NE was absolutely slammed by thunderstorms and heavy rain on top of Canadian smoke yesterday.
Not a single carrier that operates from there came away unscathed.
Republic – which flies RJs for multiple airlines – cancelled 37% of its operation yesterday.
NYC based B6 cancelled 28%.
DL, the carrier that operates the most mainline flights in the cities that was impacted by hours long ATC delays, cancelled 9% of its flights but had a 28% on-time which was better than every other airline that has large NE operations except Republic, which, as noted, cancelled over 1/3 of its flights. UA’s cancellation rate was 1% better than DL’s but their on-time was 12% worse.
There is no silver bullet and there is no escaping that aviation of any kind doesn’t work in severe weather, which the US gets plenty of in the summer.
Writing dumb articles when the operations of multiple airlines melted down clearly misses the reality of the situation
At a certain point, airlines shouldn’t be able to just blaming the weather, and get away with it, but for the most, especially in the US, they certainly do.
Like, ok, severe weather at origin, on route, or destination (if unavoidable)… I get it; out of their control. However, weather at a third location (airline operations decided your aircraft assigned to your flight came from there; has nothing to do with your route). That really should be on the airline, not you.
And… everyone knows where I’m going here… if the airline can’t operate within a reasonable time, if it’s under their control (in my opinion, including that third thing above), they outta at least get you on the next available flight, even if it’s on a competitor (bring back Rule 240), and have a duty of care (and compensation) akin to UK/EU261. Now, some of you are gonna shill HARD for the industry on here, and that’s predictable, but at some point, airlines need take better responsibility for their failures, instead of just blaming ‘weather’ and telling everyone else to ‘pound sand’ or ‘kick rocks.’
For now, yes, comprehensive travel insurance is the single best way for travelers to avoid loss on prepaid accommodation and tours at their destinations, and of course build time into your schedules (arrive a day early, if needed, especially if you’re the President of Mexico trying to fly Delta to NYC for the Word Cup Final…) Otherwise, you’ll have to become your own Old School travel agent scrambling last-minute paying top-dollar for a new itinerary (like she did getting a private jet to Teterboro in the middle of the night.)
@Tim Dunn: “Writing dumb articles when the operations of multiple airlines melted down clearly misses the reality of the situation”
Writing “Dunn” posts in the comments that miss the point of the article is worse.
Gary was not criticizing the airlines for experiencing issues yesterday. What you seemed to fail to grasp is that he was pointing out that some carriers are better than others in recovering back to normal AFTER the weather disruption has passed. And one of the reasons is some airlines try to keep planes, pilots, and flight attendants together when passing through a hub, while others split them up.
Gary is correct – if an inbound plane is late, but the crews and plane are going three different directions for the outbound operation, that single inbound delay cascades into three outbound ones. It increases the chances of crews timing out, or of flights missing airport curfews, or it complicates gate availability (as the inbound jet waits for other inbound crew) so additional flights get impacted – when skies are blue and winds are calm.
Why do airlines split crews? Economics. Take Delta – the pilots have one of the richest contracts in the industry, which isn’t limited to just pay. It includes work rules (duty time limits, minimum daily pay provisions, etc) that lead to schedules where pilots may only work 2/3rds of the typical day the (non union) flight attendants work. (In fairness, FAR 117 rules also contribute to this difference, but the pilot contract definitely does too). So, it saves Delta money to not have the flight attendants work the shorter days the pilots work (you need less of them). But, to have the flight attendants work their longer, full day, they have to work with several different pilots at a minimum.
It works when the airline is running on time. But it backfires when it isn’t, and produces exponential delays during attempts to recover. That’s what we have seen recently and that’s what Gary is pointing out.
@ 1900: “Like, ok, severe weather at origin, on route, or destination (if unavoidable)… I get it; out of their control. However, weather at a third location (airline operations decided your aircraft assigned to your flight came from there; has nothing to do with your route). That really should be on the airline, not you.”
You do realize airlines run on very thin operating margins, right? Even the best airline posts only single-digit profits. If you required an airline to either: A) compensate passengers because the efficient use of an aircraft meant scheduling the plane to go SEA – SLC – DFW – ATL, and your “DFW-ATL” is delayed because of SLC weather is now “in control of the airline”, or B) have airlines schedule planes to ONLY fly SEA – SLC, and SLC – DFW, and DFW – ATL back and forth so they don’t have an upstream “weather delay” to point at … which is a WAY less an efficient use of resources (times don’t work into banks, planes sit at outstation gates longer, wrong size planes fly at wrong time of day, crews don’t work ideal hours so you need more of them, and on and on)… both ideas greatly increase the cost of operating an airline. Which means the costs get passed on to consumers, and fares go up. Businesses always do that – if operating costs go up, so does the cost of the product. But keep pushing for higher airline costs – like a lot of left leaning political ideas, it will benefit a small few while making things worse for the majority.
@Pilot Paul — Interesting, because the airlines in Europe and Canada handle their consumer-friendly regulations, operate relatively reliably, and still maintain reasonable profits. So, are American corporations weak? No, they’ve just lobbied to prevent consumer protections, and instead can shift the burden of their failures onto consumers. No, you can’t blame weather and safety for nearly everything, because it often isn’t just that; it’s often a business decision, and if that’s the case, there’s a cost-benefit, and currently most leverage is on the side of the corporation, not the consumers. During the next round of bailouts, which inevitably will come during a recession or whatever ‘crisis,’ I think a passenger rights legislation (like the ones I so often speak of) is the bare minimum stipulation for taxpayers yet again handing money over to these for-profit companies.
“Interesting, because the airlines in Europe and Canada handle their consumer-friendly regulations, operate relatively reliably, and still maintain reasonable profits.”
Right – reasonable profits. Which isn’t the same as managing similar costs. And as predicted, there are two consequences to businesses that have to manage increased costs to operate. Either the product provided (tickets) are more expensive, which they can be with European and Canadian carriers vs. US airline ticket prices. Or – as something you might not wish to support, their labor costs are significantly lower because they pay their workers far less.
Airlines in other countries maintain competitive ticket prices on the backs of their employees. Pilots at British Airways and Emirates (for example) make only about 50% of what pilots flying similar planes, on the same routes, make at Delta. For Air Canada, it’s maybe 55%. And when those pilots go to management, seeking raises to bring themselves just somewhat closer to their peers – the answer is, “No – we can’t afford to pay you those rates.” Remember Air Canada’s recent threats to strike, over their latest contract? The new one is what brought them up to about 55% of Delta’s pay. And it’s not limited to pilots – you’ll find the same it true with flight attendants, gate agents, ramp workers, etc. And I’m not talking about “third world” countries where $2.50/hr US to throw bags is a living wage. This is the reality for crews throughout Europe, the Middle East, Australia, etc.
International airlines compete with everyone on the large routes – and if one region has higher costs, the businesses in that region have to stay competitive by saving money somewhere else. Europe’s aggressive rules have resulted in worse working conditions for their employers. Like it or not, that’s the truth.
So – you’re right. There are similar profit MARGINS with airlines worldwide. But many international airlines achieve that same profit margin by negating their higher costs with lower employee pay. And more expensive rules will either mean higher fares or even worse working conditions for employees. Econ 101.
Years back before the merger AA began to keep crew on the same plane during their duty and then the US Air mentality took over. It means crew are usually changing planes more than twice during duty day. That becomes problematic during weather because either the plane or the crew is there but the other is not. Presumably like banking it’s cheaper.
But most people are under the assumption the airline is going to take care of them. I do not have that elusion and therefore get where I want to go. I’m at DCA right now and I’ve already researched and written down my alternate flights (keeping me in first).
@Pilot Paul (and @George Romey, and @Tim Dunn, since you all are taking the industry’s side here) — Your attempt(s) to re-frame of this as a ‘debate’ over labor costs vs. consumer protection is a false dichotomy. Airlines are free to negotiate the labor contracts they choose, but they should not be permitted to build business models that externalize all operational risk onto the passenger. If an airline chooses an ‘efficient’ scheduling model that is prone to ‘exponential delays’ when weather hits, that is a conscious business strategy, not an ‘Act of God.’ When that strategy fails, the ‘cost’ of that failure should be borne by the corporation that designed the system, not the passenger who was sold a service that the airline knew was fragile. Relying on passengers to act as their own ‘travel agents’ to fix systemic industry failures is the definition of a broken consumer market. This is kind of my ‘hill to die on,’ friends.
I have personally been victim of the weather excuse knowing full well weather wasn’t not a consideration. But the airlines have used it for so long it comes naturally. With the age of the internet, phones and weather apps, they need to stop
@1990: Nothing “false” here whatsoever. Look at other items the marketplace consumes, where the government places different restrictions, rules, limits, or requirements and how they are differently priced. Gas in CA vs (anywhere else) is the easiest example, even when CA isn’t using their specially formulated brand in the summer, but is using the same as everyone else in the winter. Higher taxes and regulatory requirements = higher gas prices passed on to consumers in CA alone. It’s not “taking the industry’s side” – that is being realistic that every change demanded, whether by the marketplace or by the government, comes with consequences. Most often, the consequence is higher prices for the consumer.
Cars are another example – in the US over the past 20 years, features like backup cameras, stability control, tire pressure monitoring, etc. have become mandatory instead of optional. Do you think the relative price of cars didn’t increase as a result? And I’m not arguing against safety features or the role of government in ensuring we have safe products and a robust oversight structure. We do need that, and I’m in favor of it. But it’s naive to believe the significant cost increase in a new car since 2006 is unrelated to increased regulatory requirements. The average new car in 2006 cost $28,000. Based on inflation that’s equivalent to -/+ $47,000 in July 2026. But today, the average new car costs $49,000+. I wonder why the $2,000+ got tacked on…
Sorry, @1990. I just cannot agree with you. Airline operations are an extremely complex business, with a lot of the things that control the outcome out of the control of the airlines themselves, namely weather and ATC demands (the second of which the government is mostly responsible for failing to provide at a promised level). Your “solutions” about avoiding operational disruptions on one side of the country when weather is impacting the other side – in a TRAVEL industry with assets exposed to pretty much most of the country – is unrealistic.
Go ahead and die on the hill. We know you are passionate about this issue. But if your ideas were implemented, I fear the unintended consequences would make the result much worse than the system today.
Paul gets it on the consumer/economic issues. US airlines pay the highest salaries and benefits in the world.
and EU airlines operate with poorer reliability than US airlines; the average for Europe is pulled up by Ryanair which runs a very reliable operation – but also stays away from the big congested airports.
There are a few airlines like Breeze and Allegiant that do the same thing here; problem is that most people don’t fly out of these secondary and tertiary airports.
those airlines also don’t switch crews but also don’t have operations near as complex as the big 4 and even AS and B6 have.
and, nobody, Paul, came out ahead after the operational disaster that was US airspace yesterday. and, again, DL chose to run a better on-time operation at the expense of more cancellations – but DL operates the most mainline flights at NYC and BOS combined which were the hardest hit with ATC ground stops.
In fact, DL operates a higher percentage of its domestic network on mainline aircraft than any of the 4 airlines that use RJs – AA, AS, DL and UA. It isn’t a surprise that DL’s cancellation rate was high given that it has far lower percentage of RJ flights to cancel.
and let’s also not forget that the FAA stepped into EWR to restrict capacity and yet EWR still saw 45% cancellation rates yesterday, only slightly better than LGA’s 50%. LGA is by far the most vulnerable US airport to cancellation because of the complexity of LGA’s runways and the volume the airport handled.
and let’s also not forget that DCA is a much less reliable airport now because of the AA accident that could easily have happened many times in the past 15 years.
whining about beverate dispensers in beyond childish in the midst of the disaster that regularly is in the northeast is detachment from reality of the highest order.
It would be better if the FAA refrained from starting ground stops 3-4 hours before there is forecast weather. Had 2 trips into / out of Boston disrupted this summer by FAA ground stops at Boston when Boston had exactly zero storms. the airlines can do better, but even better would be the FAA not causing huge IRROPs when not needed.
Tyrone,
the FAA can’t wait until storms start to issue ground stops when flights are in the air hours before a storm cranks up. They also have to consider ground congestion; their job is more than just to get planes down to the runway.
The FAA has very good meteorologists but summer weather is far more difficult to forecast than winter weather.
And given that there were multiple reports of multi-hour taxi ins and outs in the NE yesterday, the FAA didn’t overdo it on ground stops
Even @Lori gets it… @Pilot Paul, nobody is blaming the crews; we all know (or should know) that it’s management’s systemic choices that lead to these operational meltdowns. Instead of taking personal and financial responsibility for their fragile networks, executives routinely blame ‘weather’ to stiff consumers while holding their own staff hostage to the same bad planning. (Sorry, @Tim Dunn, it’s getting worse, not better, at Delta this year… almost got stuck because of it this weekend. Not cool, man. Not cool.)
It’s really not ‘us vs. them’ regarding labor; it’s all of us, passengers and workers alike, against a management model that incentivizes greed and incompetence over reliability. Management won’t solve these systemic issues unless they are forced to, and that is where sensible regulations create the right incentives. You see a ‘regulatory tax,’ I see an accountability mechanism that finally aligns corporate behavior with the reality of the business they are actually running.
I disagree w/ Paul on many things but his take here is correct.
labor isn’t the problem and no one said they are.
You, 1990, are the king of trying to pit management against labor but almost always do it with illogical assertions that don’t hold up to any kind of scrutiny.
Airlines COULD keep crews and planes together but that is simplistic and only works for small carriers that operates simple fleets and limited route systems.
None of the big 4 practices keeping fleets and crews together; and the counterargument is that WN, an only 737 airline, has a worse on-time than DL and UA. AA is worse than WN but it is largely because DFW doesn’t function wet – or with storms anywhere within 200 miles.
and trying to measure recovery from storms yesterday is meaningless given that ATL is under a ground stop right now due to tstorms while EWR has ATC delays due to VIP movements.
and it is juvenilely stupid to think that a flight should be ready for you just because it finally lands after a diversion.
perhaps the simplicity of a few weeks of good weather during spring and fall is all some people are capable of enduring
@Tim Dunn — No, a properly run airline can handle IROPS, no scapegoating necessary. When an airline chooses a fragile network design to maximize margins, they’ve made a business calculation. I’m arguing that the financial risk of that calculation should stay with the multi-billion-dollar for-profit corporation, not the passenger. Reliability isn’t ‘simplistic’; it’s the cost of doing business.
even if your theory was practically possible, it is nowhere near realistic or implementable.
For an unlimited amount of money, an airline COULD have dozens of aircraft on standby with crews ready to sub in for late or delayed flights = but most airports in the NE don’t have enough gates or parking spots to just leave standby planes there.
and, despite your pie in the sky mindsets, people won’t pay for that kind of reliability.
US airlines cancel 3% or less of flights/month in the worst of the year and 1% or less in the best months operationally.
No airline runs consistently 100% full so there is capacity to accommodate passengers from cancelled or delayed flights.
and we still have the issue that some people love to fling doo at DL which runs the highest percentage of flights on mainline aircraft of the 4 airlines that use RJs; UA fans love to tout UA’s better mainline cancellation rate but hide behind much higher cancellation rates on regional carriers.
The DOT isn’t fooled, though. Their monthly consumer air travel report shows that UA cancels a higher percentage of regional flights relative to mainline operations than nearly every other airline that uses RJs.
It’s just like every other statistic – UA and its fans love to tell you how great EWR is doing operationally while avoiding admitting that ORD is an operational disaster this summer.
let’s see what DOT data shows for this summer but I don’t think it will be pretty for anyone – and none of it will make a difference.
AA consistently runs the worst operation of the big 4 but they are not only still in business but improving their revenue performance based on product improvements as Gary notes while their operation relative to the industry has not improved.
Product matters far more than operational reliability whether you like to admit it or not
@Tim Dunn — That’s a whole lotta hoopla, sir. “Product matters far more than operational reliability” … SAY..WHAT?? (Did you forget the ‘/s’?) Let’s be clear: the flight actually operating is #1; secondary considerations include hard and soft product, etc. But, if you’re not flying, nothing else matters.
I like the military jets and biscoff cookies better, sir.
There actually is no evidence that a differnce in 1% in operational stats – including having the worst lost bag stat – really matters in terms of revenue performance.
DL and UA generated very similar passenger revenue performance in the MRQ.
despite all of the p8uiong from the UA crowd, what mattered the most is fuel and debt. that has been the case for the industry for years. Remember that it was WN’s fuel hedges in the post covid era that allowed it to build DEN from scratch into a pretty large operation. AA has generated revenue change in line with DL and UA for several years; their problem is non-fuel costs – too many RJs which are the result of too many hubs in the eastern US competing for connecting traffic which reduces efficiency – and debt.
and the difference financially between DL and UA isn’t and won’t be about a 1% difference in cancellation rates or even lost bags but about DL’s richer credit card agreement, its growing MRO with exclusivity on every new generation engine, and its more productive labor force.
UA’s nemesis is fuel – which is not getting better anytime soon; notice the fuel spike over the past week?
none of the big 4 are stumbling so badly on operations that they scare off passengers but that is happening at B6. Nobody bothers to note that B6 – DL’s biggest direct comp;etitor in the NE -has had cancellation rates 3X larger than DL’s SYSTEM cancellation rate; DL has proven and continues to prove that it keeps growing by feeding off of B6 even if UA fans think everything is a contest between DL and UA.
and the UA crowd can’t admit that WN is the airline that actually has the lowest cancellation rate of the big 4, not UA.
Even when they think that beating up DL makes UA a winner, the UA fans prove they only come to that conclusion by ignoring WN.
let’s see what our internet overlords serve to us this week but the last one was sure fun!
@Tim Dunn — Happy Monday. I’d prefer not to use this tired old trope, but… you proved my point. You’re arguing that airlines are ‘profitable’ even when they don’t fly, implying that operational failure is a rounding error on a balance sheet…but, that’s the problem. When management views passengers as collateral damage in a fuel-and-debt shell game, the ‘product’ they’re selling is a lie.
In a consolidated oligopoly with limited competition, the Big 3 don’t have to care if they deliver what they sold, because you’ll be on the next flight anyway. But, actually admitting that aloud doesn’t make the current system ‘realistic’; it makes it a failure of governance.
When an industry becomes so insulated that reliability becomes optional because ‘product’ and ‘credit card agreements’ drive revenue, that is the definition of why we need consumer-focused regulation (EU261-equivalent in US). We shouldn’t be debating whether it’s ‘worth it’ for airlines to be reliable; we should be demanding that the service they sell is actually the service they provide.
Why else is it ‘okay’ for us to purchase ‘premium’ airfare many months in-advance, practically giving these for-profit billion-dollar-companies interest-free-loans, when they can cancel for bogus reasons just before the flight, leaving passengers stranded and scrambling for over-priced last-minute replacement itineraries. This system isn’t working, Tim…
There must be a better incentive (or penalty against the companies) for continuing to screw us. I think them paying a several hundred dollars of compensation and having a true duty of care (EU261) and the option to have alternative travel covered (like Rule 240) is that better incentive. I’m confident you’ll disagree, because it will harm profits (hiring more reserves, or paying-out, etc.)
When this will truly break down is during the next economic recession, where inevitably the airlines will demand a bailout; I hope there is better leadership in Washington that will simply make what I’ve suggested the stipulation for that next cash injection. Either that, or nationalization, which even I think is a bit too much (see, not a filthy commie.)
As for Biscoffs, you try the new circular ones with the cream inside? Yummers! Though, as far as snacks go, I must say, I miss the Vego Bears; Albanese, sadly, are not as good. *sigh*
you almost got it.
Operational reliability doesn’t matter because there isn’t that big of a difference between the big 4. They both have periods where they are better or worse but not for long.
As much as you might be shocked to hear it, DL’s operational reliability, IMHO, doesn’t get it what it used to which is why, again, IMHO, DL is moving toward completing its network which is why they are going after the west coast and TPAC, the area where they matter the most.
Yes, DL is going to fix its pilot notification and staffing issues which have hurt its operational performance this year – but it simply does not translate into much of a competitive advantage for anyone else, no matter how badly some people think otherwise.
It’s the same as the Starlink vs. every other system battle. Just playing in the same league is enough. Even Allegiant recognizes they have to provide some WiFi; you don’t have to offer it free to be in the same league.
Internet chat forums are full of focus on minutia at the expense of the big picture.
Customers aren’t collateral; there are simply operational limits which every carrier has to face. As much as you want to believe airlines can overcome it all, T storms are just bad stuff and airlines or general aviatior and the military doesn’t fly in them – which means nothing breaks downstream.
Crew rotations don’t matter when the operation has to stop for 45 minutes or 2 hours – or a half day as has happened in NYC.
If you can find a better way to get across the country without a 3% risk of cancellation, then do it. Or just accept that there is no failproof way to move across the planet as easily as airlines do.
There are real limits to life – no different from the fact that we all expire at some point no matter how much we spend on doctors and medicine.
round biscoffs? Oo la la. that’s new. I can always count on the full size Biscoffs on DL in contrast to the junior sized ones on some other airlines. I like my sweets crunchy, btw.
happy week to you and Gary.
@Tim Dunn — Holy cynicism, Batman! ‘Nothing will be perfect, why even try…’ Accept mediocrity, stop demanding basic accountability, ‘pound sand,’ ‘kick rocks.’ Yikes.
When you argue that reliability is just ‘minutia,’ you’re admitting that the current competitive landscape doesn’t punish incompetence. (Where are my ‘free market’ bros, now? *crickets* …turns out, they always wanted monopolies, so long as they, personally, individually, profited. Damn everyone else. *pulls ladder up behind them*)
If airlines don’t have to be reliable to maintain their revenue, then the ‘free market’ has failed to protect the consumer. That’s a choice, facilitated by the current lack of regulatory guardrails. I don’t know exactly when, but I suspect there will be a breaking point. In the mean time, I’ll keep advocating for the ‘minutia’ of actually getting where I paid to go within a reasonable time.
As for the cookies, the round ones are still plenty crunchy, just extra sweet. Superb with coffee.
Lying is part of airline culture. So claiming weather related causes is the official go to cause no matter the circumstances.
never did I say not to try to be better – I do it all the time personally.
but I also understand limits and know that your polyanna scenarios will never happen because there are limits for everything in life including airline operations in the NE. We could have better reliability if we just bulldozed half of Queens, closed EWR and started all over with one mammoth commercial airport for NYC and let Teterboro do its thing over in NJ- but that is just not happened.
and I didn’t say operational reliability is minutia. I said internet forums are hyperfocused on arguing about details that are constantly moving – looking for a “I got you” instead of focusing on real trends.
not even trains in Europe operate 100% reliability, 1990. and the ground based free internet on them pales in comparison to what I get w/ Viasat on DL. Tunnels, you know.
jns,
do you know that US airlines are required to report the exact reason and an upline weather delay cannot be called a weather delay according to the DOT? There are late arriving aircraft delays, diversion delays, and air carrer delays besides ATC and extreme weather and security.