You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
The norms have changed but passengers don’t always know this in advance, which makes for a stark clash of expectations. One United passenger was shocked to learn that nobody would be permitted to spread out into wide open seats on a recent flight … unless they had their “payment method handy.”
@united insisting people either pay for upgrades or stay packed in like sardines on flights with plenty of open seats is poor customer service. pic.twitter.com/MoRW9PD5US
— Ben Houg (@benhoug) November 25, 2024
They made an announcement saying “if you wanted to move seats, have your payment method handy.”
— Ben Houg (@benhoug) November 25, 2024
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating, for a little while longer! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative. Their plane, their rules, and they can change the rules even after many decades of forming passenger expectations.
Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for. It is against the airline rules, not theft, but it is still not allowed if a flight attendant decides not to allow it.
Humans are gonna be humans… and they love gambling. If the passengers that pay for (or have perks for) extra legroom, frequently (depending on flight) have an empty seat or 3 next to them, and then suddenly, they never have empty seats nearby, many of those humans will eventually find the value of extra legroom diminished. This perceived reduction in valuation by at least some passengers would cause actual “economic harm” to the airline. It might be small, but I would argue it is not insignificant. When the odds of the bet of a favorable outcome get worse, the humans will bet less, or not at all.
I completely disagree. If you want economy plus, then pay for it. That’s what I do. Either that or get a status with the airline where you can get the seats for free if available. That also costs money because it means you are a loyal customer with United.
Although, I too, am guilty of moving seats on a flight from time to time, people need to also keep in mind that weight control on each side of the plane can affect the flight
I hate the premise of this story.
How about the airlines just charge a flat rate and give everybody a comfortable seat because everybody gets to the destination at the same time. Keep first class separate but everybody else is just general population. These corporations are so over stepping the line in everything. They want to take every dollar from us consumers. Why do they want to bankrupt thier customers. Corporate greed needs to be stopped.
What is the world coming to.
When I purchase a premium seat upgrade, I expect the airline to protect the value I paid for. I do not expect people to fill in the cabin around me as freebies. Flight attendants needs to protect or collect.
Honestly…. I fly at least once a month and I can’t remember the last time there were empty seats on the plane. Flights are usually completely full or oversold.
Restaurants throw away perfectly good unsold food at the end of the day. Grocery stores dump out soon to expire milk and pour bleach on perfectly edible meat before throwing them into a dumpster instead of donating them to a food bank. Publishers destroy unsold books instead of donating them to a school or library. Retailers send surplus clothes to a landfill.
Is it any surprise that airlines are doing what everyone else is in these days of late state capitalism.
Don’t like it? Fly another airline. UA has the right to run as they see fit. End of discussion.
Yes, I totally understand the concept of “you didn’t pay for that upgrade” and generally agree with it being enforced. However, I distinctly recall being on a nearly empty flight (AA) from MIA to BOS a number of years ago where there were only 4 people on board and they asked us all to move up to (domestic) First Class. For the crew, it made sense.
So, I could see things like that providing the crafty self-upgrader an argument in his favor. But still, no.
The pilot in preflight preparation has done a weight and balance report based on roster of occupied seats. If the airline wanted to, they can say it’s for safety reasons and if someone disregards the crews warning, they may be subject to being escorted off the plane by law enforcement once they have reached the end of that flight segment (that segment might not be their final destination if a connection is required in reaching their final destination.)
Common courtesy, flight etiquette and common sense can prevent any problems with flights.
Flight attendants dont make the rules.
Theie bosses {the airline) do.
Each airline has a policy and flight attendants are instructed on how to enforce it.
Maybe airlines should change the upholstery color between economy and economy plus. Help delineate the sections.
Everyone on the plane should have the leg room afforded in the extra legroom seats. The greedy corporations created this problem by putting an inhumane number of seats in coach.
What’s next? A standingroom only section?
As a flight attendant, I don’t appreciate the last bit where you say “if the flight attendant allows it”
We follow 2 sets of rules on board, FAA regulations and our company’s policies.
It baffles me how rules everywhere else in the world somehow seen to not apply on board an airplane.
For example, say you go to the theatre, or a sporting event, if there are open seats in say a suite or club level or private boxes (whatever they may be called) does one expect to just be able to sneak in and take those unsold seats? NO! You can’t, you didn’t pay for it! Period.
Same with those who’ve demanded to use the lavatory in first class, you can’t charge on to the private suite level suring the hockey game and demand to use the unused bathrooms, you have to wait, in your section of the arena for a toilet to be available. It’s the norm and accepted EVERYWHERE else in your life, why do you expect a different result on an airplane?
It is the perogative of the airline to sell seats on the aircraft in the manner they choose. You have to sit in the seat you purchased, or at least in the same class of seating.
No, you cannot buy basic economy and then move up to economy plus or business class. You can move from a middle economy seat to a window or aisle economy seat if it is open after the door is closed.
Simple.
If everyone paying the same fare for the seat in the same cabin and there’s only limited of seats available. Who take those seats? Especially nowadays you can file for discrimination as why he can do it but you cannot when you paid for the same Chet’s. If the pax paid for extra money for the seats and they can also ask for refund since everyone is changing their seat it for free? There’s are lot of reasons other reasons for weight balancing and for sick pax etc etc
Honey, that’s not a Lexus. That’s a 1989 Corolla. The other seat is a 1987 Corolla. That’s the difference we’re taking about, here.
Greedy corporations= cheapskate customers. I pay for premium seating. So should you. You don’t like it? Fly Spirit/Frontier. You get and deserve only what you pay for. Its bad enough when they throw a Group 9 standby passenger in the empty seat next to me, rather than have gate lice swarm the premium seatin.
No Gary, once again, you’re wrong. There has NEVER been passenger expectations that you could upgrade for free. Why you keep saying these are passenger expectations that have been there for a long time, I don’t know. That just is not the case. Have passengers been able to move into a different seat in the same cabin same class? Sure, but they have not been allowed to upgrade to a different class. I’ve been flying for 30 years and they have never allowed you to sit in a seat that is a different class. Upgrading from economy or basic economy to premium economy is not a passenger expectation. It’s someone who’s full of themselves and thinks they should be able to.
You sound stupid. It is theft. You are going into a seat I didn’t pay for. And it harms the other passengers that pulled out their wallets and spent more money. Then they could of done the same thing, been cheap, sat in coach, and waited for the seat to be open..it doesn’t work that way
.stop being cheap. Just buy the seat you want to sit in
Most Economy plus seats come with included alcoholic beverages which on plain economy seats require payment.
A flight attendant on a recent flight moved me up to Economy Plus just because she wanted to. I didn’t ask. She just saw that their were extra seats, and everyone sitting in the back row of the plane got moved up to better seats. It was a nice surprise!
Wow standing room, airlines would do that if they could. FAA would not allow. Upgrages should be based on ticket cost and fare class. I bought a standing room only to a ball game, but sat down in a section where a group never showed. I guess I caused a seat to wear out sooner because of me.
Right. I’m going to buy a nosebleed seat for the Super Bowl, and then take a premium seat. It’s empty, why shouldn’t I?
Pay for the seat you want to fly in.
Whats immoral is the crazy charges on seat selection that doesnt cost the airline a cent. People should just get up from the tiny seats and walk around the cabin. Hang out in the galleys, theres lots of room there. The more the merrier!
So many flaws to the argument presented, many mentioned above.
This is the one that bothered me, “A seat that can’t be sold.” Yes, it can if someone doesn’t just take it. The person next to you might get tired of your insufferable complaining and choose to pay to move up ten minutes from now.
Just another form of classism – The have vs. the have not!
The seats are the airlines’ products. They have different price points and different perks. If self upgrading now gets you a better meal or free drinks that does cost the airline money, so the airline does have every right to attempt to recoup their costs and to protect their premium product.
The moral argument the airlines use is facile. They want to make as much money as they can off of each flight, so they enforce the cost of each seat. Does it actually matter once the plane leaves the ground and the unoccupied seats are effectively spoiled? No, they have made as much money as they are going to on the flight, unless they force the flight attendants to partake in their made up morality and try to charge people for empty seats. I feel bad for the flight attendants and the passengers but not the airlines. Passengers changing seats is not stealing, the seat will still be there when the plane lands.
The airlines should instruct the flight attendants to tell customers the goal is to wring every last cent out of the customer. So if you want that seat, pay up.
They shouldn’t go around insulting everyone’s intelligence and trying to pretend the size of their bank accounts is a moral imperative.
It might also partly be do to how nasty people have become. So in reality, if it were a free for all, who a actually gets the seat? The fastest, the strongest, the ruddest? If you have to pay, thay will change the playing field somewhat and could potentially assist flught attendants from having to deal with entitled people. Irregardless of it being empty, YOU DIDN’T PAY FOR IT THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO IT.
It’s “lie down,” not “lay.”
Foolish statements. What about identifying passengers in the event of a mishap but you changed the passenger manifest? What about weight and balance? If the airline’s raised their prices they would get a better class of passenger and employee. Airfare is much too cheap. Compare prices from the 70s and see why we have all this chaos at airlines.
What’s funny is they will request you to move seats to balance the load in the plane.
Another company that is tripping over dollars to pick up pennies. This will not end well with United.
OMG it’s called capitalism – ya get what you pay for, and you don’t get what you don’t pay for. If you want a premium economy seat, but a premium economy ticket.
The Ford/Lexus analogy is wrong though. It’s more analogous to buying a nose bleed seat at an event and moving to an open seat in the front after the event starts.
But there is a loss there on many airlines – because premium economy receives complimentary adult beverages and upgraded snacks that would have to be purchased in basic economy.
If I paid 80.00 more for my ticket and someone moves from the back up into my section, I’m going to be demanding they move back or for a refund.
And a few times they changed my seat without my knowledge, until I was at the boarding line. A so called “upgrade.” No I do not want them to do this.
It’s hard to follow this logic. If you aren’t allowed to self-upgrade from economy to business then you shouldn’t be able to self-upgrade from economy to economy plus.
The old days you refer to everyone was purchasing the same class and then able to move within that class. Airlines have created new classes and applying your business class logic, you need to stay within that class.
Some seats on an aircraft are more desired and therefore more valuable. Moving from a cheaper seat to a higher cost seat without permission and without paying for it is stealing. If at any point before or during a flight a customer wants to upgrade to a better seat that’s available, they can pay for it. It’s that simple.
Not a great analogy by United. But I do agree if you do want to switch to a Preferred seats or Extra Legging Room seats such as Economy Plus, Comfort Plus or Main Cabin Extra, you do need to treat it as a First Class/Business Class seats as it’s an extra/upgrade.
I work for an Airline and as a Flight Attendant if we “upgrade” passengers in any way except for under the Captains authority or service recovery for a customer; we can be put into disciplinary action, up to and including termination!
So, is it permissable to buy that concert ticket or sporting event ticket in the nosebleed section or with an obstructed view, then work your way down to a courtside seat or a seat closer to the stage simply because no one is occupying that seat? After all, maybe it wasn’t sold and would just go unused. The answer is no. You get what you paid for. Sit down, shut up, and stop playing the the “out was going to be empty and unused anyway” crap.
Attaching an elevated value to specific seats implies restriction from those seats if the upcharge is not paid. That seat is a resource owned by the airline, and if the airline didn’t sell it to you, you don’t have a right to it.
As a traveler, you had every opportunity to buy seats at the airline specified price, or upgrade for the required upcharge right up to (and apparently after) boarding. The fact you didn’t do that is YOUR choice. It’s entitled of you to believe that you can just “trade in” your low-value seat for a higher value one on your own initiative. If the airline allows you to do that (and presumably, everyone else), it devalues the seat in the sales model.
It’s not different than refusing to allow you to just walk up to business or first from coach just because the seats are empty. It’s just at a smaller financial scale.
Just pay for the seat upfront, OR be happy with the seat you willingly paid for.
Heres a thought … why not give a discount after the flight has begun on the seats that are empty if 1 wants to move up step up their ticket, they can get the other ticket with a discount this way the AI makes the money it stops the people from just grabbing the seat for free and everybody’s happy because they paid their way end of story amen. You’re welcome.
I would respect that rationale more IF they didn’t also routinely oversell economy and then toss a few lucky souls into economy plus rather than bumping them to the next flight. I’ve seen that happen on at least 4 different flights: my partner and I booked premium economy and paid for it, there were a dozen seats available in PE and an economy standby list as of 2 hours before the flight, and come boarding every PE seat is full and the standby list cleared. So it’s clearly fine to let someone drive off in a Lexus instead of the Toyota they paid for if the airline oversold the Toyotas (which I’ve also seen happen at rental car counters fwiw). But not if there are entire rows empty because it’s ‘stealing’…money that they were never going to get anyway because a finite number of people booked that particular flight. Mmkay. Sure.
United Flight Attendant here… First and foremost it has to do with weight and balance. Especially if the plane is empty. We are allowed to do 3 upgrades during boarding on a narrow-body because the aircraft is zoned for weight and your seat assignment places a pre-determined “adult weight” in that zone. That is then put into the flight deck computer automatically for takeoff balance. Upgrading on our device does not move the weight in the flight deck computer to the forward zone unfortunately so beyond 3 can become an issue. Because now we are shifting weight forward and the flight deck computer still believes it’s in the back and doesn’t trim the stabilizers/thrust/etc. to compensate. Secondly it’s policy because it’s simply not fair to those who paid to sit up there or gained an upgrade through their loyalty status. You’re sitting in the exact seat that you paid for. We’re not taking anything away from you. If you’d like to be afforded extra space then you have to pay for it. Simply.
Dear Gary. A thief is a thief. By your logic, you may stroll down the grocery aisle and eat near expired food because they were going to throw it away tomorrow. It’s not YOURS GARY! The real idiots are the carriers who think 2 extra inches is worth paying more for. I’m willing to bet that you also eat grapes out of the bag before they’re weighed and paid for as well. You’re a thief Gary.
Despite the upgrade issue and the purchasing of upgraded seat, work one day as a load planner for any airline! It does absolutely matter when people change seats, especially in larger numbers. What is loaded below, is put in place with consideration for the passenger cabin. There are many concerns regarding weight and balance for each type of aircraft.
Flew to Cancun in September, my daughter booked it so I can’t remember the airline. We were all given random seats not together. The stewardess worked very hard to put people traveling together by each other.
United has screwed me so many times I’m not at all surprised. Quit flying them years ago.