… and I say “meh.”
I’ve gotten several e-mails from readers in the past few days who have had their Citibank credit card accounts shut down.
Mostly this involves people who had signed up for Citibank credit cards that would earn 5 Thank You points per dollar on specific categories of spending, who then did large dollar volume purchases of gift cards and other financial instruments that could be turned back into cash.
Certainly I get that this wasn’t what Citi intended in offering the card with this benefit. And I wouldn’t have a problem with them ending the promotion early, or even ending it early for specific cardholders they feel are abusing the benefit.
They’re going too far, in my view, in that they seem to be (1) confiscating previously-earned points, and (2) even shutting down other credit cards held by the same individual. In some sense they’re firing the customers retroactively.
I’ve been vaguely aware of this, but hadn’t followed it closely. I hadn’t trumpeted the opportunity to earn 5 Thank You points per dollar on specific spend. Thank You points lost their luster for me in 2009 when they devalued (for the second time).
I’ve mentioned them a couple of times as a decent cash back card option, particularly when paired with the ability to double earning through flight miles — though only a handful of times as that’s not really my focus. I far prefer to spend and earn non-Citi Thank You points.
I’ve considered the Hilton card decent for Gold status, and the American card good for signup bonus (until they killed the 50,000 mile bonus a few days ago, at least, although a 40,000 mile bonus remains available).
So while I think Citi is behaving badly that’s also the Citi I know — and have known — for years.
- They’ve devalued their Thank You points in the past with no notice. And when they’ve given notice of devaluation they’ve gone ahead and implemented changes a month early than they had said they would.
- They’ve treated all sorts of things as cash advances that other issuers consider to be purchases, much to the surprise (and expense) of cardholders.
- They’ve shut down checking accounts and banned customers for use of features (fund via credit card) offered by the program.
So I kind of shrug my shoulders and say of course Citi did this. But then I’ve been around long enough to have a memory for these things.
When readers have asked how to handle this, what they should do, all I’ve been able to offer is “do business with another bank.” Does anyone have a better strategy?
All that said, the way they seem to be doing this does appear to go quite a bit overboard. As I say, shut down the 5x earning they object to. Even decide that cardholders pursuing benefits from their card that way aren’t great customers to have in the future. But taking away earned benefits that were accrued in accordance with the program rules seems dishonest to me.
What is your experience as a Citi accountholder?
I’m glad Citi is finally reigning in the scammers.
They should be banned – you can’t cheat the system indefinitely
@jason and bunny: How is it a scam or cheat to work within the rules of the marketing promo that Citi themselves had the full latitude to write with or without caveats?
There is a reason why people call them Shitibank
@Jason + @Bunny- I don’t want to resort to name calling, but do you know how to use a credit card?
What I want to know is – how does Citi know what specific items customers are buying at retail outlets? Are people just admitting that they are buying gift cards, VR, or similar, or are they somehow getting itemized receipts? The understanding has always been that banks can’t get itemized purchase lists from retailers such as CVS. If this proves not to be true, then the implication is much greater, affecting not just the people exploiting TY points but rather anyone buying VR, green dot, etc.
Jason and Bunny,
Who says these people were cheating the system or scamming? Go read the FlyerTalk thread and you’ll see that some people were shut down and had ALL of their cards cancelled for buying TWO gift cards – even after having been loyal Citi customers for over a decade.
Citi offered the promo and incentivized these kinds of purchases. And its the consumers’ fault for taking them up on it?
I am with Gary, however, in that it doesn’t surprise me a bit, despite me thinking it’s wrong of Citi. I’m too busy to do much manufactured spend anymore, but I got shut down by Amex many years ago for manufactured spend, so ever since, even in times that I did a ton of manufactured spend, I was very, very careful in the way that I did it. I made sure that the spend mimicked normal spending patterns so that the banks wouldn’t get nervous. I also made sure to not abuse bonus categories. Some people have gotten shut down for spending $50k at Office Supply stores with Ink and nothing else. I’ve spent $50k at Office Supply stores with Ink in two months time, but I had no fear at all of getting shut down. Why? Because I had a strong history of non-bonused spend on that card and I kept spending similar monthly amounts long after the 5x was maxed. So I’ve actually been very profitable to Chase.
My hat is off to those with the guts to max out the bonused spend categories (i.e. AARP in the past) and I agree that the banks should go with upfront rules (their lack of caveats are self-serving marketing lies) rather than under the table punitive action, however, it never comes as a surprise. The extreme stuff–the stuff that is unprofitable for credit card banks and airlines and hotels–is not for me anymore, though I enjoy hearing people’s stories.
The economic tide has turned and the banks now have absolutely no interest in indulging the wonderlust that is manufactured spend.
US Bank’s FlexPerks program is also booting people- yeah, that double FlexPoints at grocery and gas stations promotion means… don’t earn too many double points.
Load up your Wells Fargo prepaid card then cash it out? You’ll get a letter accusing you of fraud. The letter doesn’t specify what you did, they don’t offer an opportunity to explain… because whatcha gonna do about it?
Load up your My Vanilla Debit and spend it down? Same thing.
Bottom line- unless you’re good for the bottom line (of the bank/company/etc) you. are. gone.
Chase even shut down cards and all accounts including long standing checking accounts for “use which was not intended for this product”
Citi can do it, but we have got enough out of Citi for now.
Have 2 banks at all times
1 for minor use that you can fall back upon in an emergency
If there nervous about manuf. spend then don’t give 20K + credit lines to people. I blame the bank you are okay giving me a huge credit line then I spend money in places you don;t like so you close everything. Then give me a 2k line so your not nervous that I can run away with that 20 k and never come back. does anybody know a island I can buy for 20 K???
@CW,
Card issuers do have the ability to see the line items for some retailers.
Visa, for example, has an option called Level III, described thus:
“Level III-Line Item Detail is detail information about individual line items, such as product code, description, quantity, and unit cost.”
http://visa.via.infonow.net/locator/usa/supplier/ListLoadAction.do
You can see which merchants appear with that ability (though I am sure merchants have that but are not necessarily listed having such)
If you think Citibank is aggressive, you should be aware that Chase is far worse and in many ways. And I don’t buy gift cards or financial instruments as noted. However those that lost points I believe can get them back with aggressive fighting. Contact the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau http://www.consumerfinance.gov/
Contact the NY State Atty Generals office, (even if you are not a NY resident0 That is Citi headquarters, file as many formal complaints as possible. Even your state atty general. Those who are aggressive will more than likely get the points back. Maybe not the card reopened. I tell everyone at the various meetups that these things can be risky. The earlier post that mentioned US bank etc. I once argues with Chase Exec offices that I got a letter that said earn unlimited points. At one point I was disputing something with her. She said it is in the fine print. I read the fine print to her (it wasn’t there) She said it is (If I say it is) Needless to say they didn’t want further issues with regulatory bodies so they settled with me. Every point I earned and paid was honest real charges for real things, (not gift cards) by the way. These shutdowns are based on computer models. Therefore they have little care if you are a 1 yr customer or a 20 yr customer. You could have a million in the bank with Citi and if you call customer no service they will tell you that they can do nothing and get lost (this is my opinion) I have active cards with all of these issuers by the way. In the complaints fight for the points, not to reopen the cards. Six months later reapply and you can get the same cards again and maybe some bonuses as well.
I think even with small credit lines, one can prepay the credit card with $3000 and then spend the limit PLUS the amount of the pre-pay
Citi could have just capped the 5x spend bonus like AMEX did with a while back grocery spend. I think this sets a very disturbing precedent. I get 3x offers every quarter on my Citi AA card. I buy 2-3 gift cards at grocery to maximize, then put the card back in the drawer. Citi apparently considers this to be “fraud”. Wow, if milking a category bonus is fraud, you’d think people who used the 2 broswer trick to get more than one citi AA sign up bonus would be on the chopping block too. That’s probably closer to fraud since the terms say you can’t get more than 1 lifetime AA bonus, at least they did on the personal cards. Similarly for those who churn the personal Citi AA every 2 years to exploit.
Gary, thanks for pointing this out. I’m glad that I have generally abstained from using Citi cards for buying VRs and gift cards.
I’m looking forward to Frequent Miler’s post on this subject!
Until I had my problem with Chase I never heard of a company shutting down and keeping the points. The truth of the matter is more than likely a small percentage of users generate the bulk of points earned. It is not easy for them to go after this and more if they choose to.
Anyone else get the e-mail last quarter from Chase freedom that encouraged purchase of Starbucks gift cards in order to meet the freedom quarterly bonus? I know this is a different issuer, but I remember seeing that and thinking about how ridiculous it was – to encourage purchase of gift cards in one instance then close accounts for “perk abuse” (like AARP) in another. I always figured if Chase ever called me about this type of thing I could say I got the idea from them.
My wife would only be all to happy for this to happen to us. I have to take her out to a nice dinner each time I tell her I have got a new Citi card 😉
@DeltaPoints: She wants the dinners to stop? 😛
Thoughts on Citi being this aggressive with manufactured spend on their other cards (ie Hilton/AA/etc)? Seems to me that its the 5X that they care most about as they probably make money on all other points.
I closed my remaining Citi accounts two months ago and haven’t looked back. There are more rewarding options for me, I don’t need to play Citi’s games anymore.
@HansGolden – HA! Nah, just love’s the simplicity of the Chase & AMEX web sites! The Citi site is so bad.
I try to do everything in moderation with every card. I wish the credit cards would specify limits so you know what is okay and what can get you shut down, but they generally don’t. People who go overboard and manufacture massive amounts of spend ruin the deals for everyone. I’m glad in this case Citibank shut them down rather than pull the offer from people who do things in moderation.
The true colors of Citi came out when they sent a 1099 to all their new bank account holders who got bonus miles. A company that does business like that sends a very clear signal that “hey our management has sphincter muscle issues” ……….but I just got my 2 night certificate for Versailles Hilton so never say never…..
I think the card holders are as much to blame as Citi is, along with the Bloggers of cause who push everyone to get the CCs via thier links to score the big $$. They then detail how to get the Spend w/o having any real spend
How many people do you know that spend even $500 a month on reg everyday items at say CVS,Im sure some folks have been spending $1000s on the GCs. As Ye Ole saying goes, The Bulls make money, The Bears make money, and the Pigs will always get slaughtered
You cant have a monthly statement of $1000s and $59 of that is legit.
Problem is its probably not too long before the other banks follow suit. I suggest anyone doing the Manufacted Spend to make sure its not the vast majority of their monthly charges , unless you dont mind being shut down and having your pts lost.
Sorry Gary, I think what Citi is doing is correct
Citi is closing account that have purcahsed a few gift cards ( not VR or that type but like Amazon, Itunes or Kohls). One customer complains he bought two cards and was shutdown, ALL cards closed and TYP confiscated. There is petition going around.
( another Jason here )
There are reports of people spending many many thousands of dollars per month on GC, VR etc. This is probably what killed it for the more casual users.
Seems like Citi took up the two main weapons of The Spanish Inquisition – surprise and fear, fear and surprise. Folks are lucky that Citi did not drag out the comfy cushions or the disk rack.
Shame on those of you heretics trying to excuse committing the sin of glutony! You should have known that you can run but you cannot hide from The Spanish Inquisition.
In a word, Horrible. Used them once, briefly, about 5 years ago. Horrible and never again.
My friend used her Citi AA card for a car repair. She was charged a case advance fee and denied her sign up bonus because citi said it was a financial institution and did not qualify for minimal spend. Since it was a local auto body store, she went to inquire about whether they have any financial services. They said no and they have no idea why Citi has them labeled as a financial institution. Ridiculous.
“But taking away earned benefits that were accrued in accordance with the program rules seems dishonest to me”
Really? You buy VISA/MC/AMEX GCs, which is an empty vehicle other than $3.95 – $5.95 fees for the card holder. But, you come out on top because of the 5x that Citi is giving you at the expense of Citi & most likely Citi losing money from the churn. This behavior is “dishonest”. Instead of blaming yourself pushing too far, it’s bank’s fault? You are a good Republican, Sir.
@MrWho – I am not a Republican, but that’s neither here nor there. I think in the post I’m pretty sympathetic to Citibank. I don’t have a problem with them ending the 5x promotion early, capping earnings on the 5x promotion, and even firing customers they don’t want. But I do think it went to far to forfeit the points folks may have accumulated for years long before recent charges.
I don’t have their cards any more. The last card was closed by them without any notice. I guess I didn’t have much activities on the card. But, if you close my card, at least you should let me know. I found out from my credit monitor service.
They shut down my account, I wrote a letter to the President’s office and received a personal apology over the phone. My card and benefits were reinstated so I feel they listened which is more than I can say for Amex.
Good for Citi. Everybody who is abusing the system is fully aware that they are doing so. Sure, you are free to maximize your points within the terms of the agreement, but Citi is also free to terminate your business relationship if you are abusing the promo in a manner in which it was not intended. Card churning is another scam. Again, if Citi lets you do it then good for you. But if you get shut down, don’t come crying to those of us who don’t abuse the system.
My experience with Citi has been great. I’ve had checking accounts on and off for the last two decades on both coasts – never an issue and much better than most about fund availability once you have established a good history. For a time their bill pay and website were the best out there, though sadly not so anymore due to too many revamps. For many years the Citi AA card was great for accumulating EQM towards lifetime Gold/Plat etc. – the only card that could do so. Now it is mostly useless except for the frequent 0% balance transfer offers.
So overall Citi has treated me well, but many here will be pleased to learn that I will probably be terminating them soon as their current products don’t meet my needs anymore. Was going to get the Citi Hilton card but don’t plan to stay at Hilton anymore since the great devaluation.
Gary, I’m glad that you have finally come out of the political closet here on your blog! Of course, you many not be a Democrat either. 🙂
What to me is missing from what you are saying is that citi did not restrict who it shut down merely to people who maximized a 5x bonus. They shut me down even though I was not even receiving such a bonus or buying gift cards with my cards.
It seems that citi will shut down anyone who uses the card in a way citi doesn’t like. And that alone wouldn’t bother me. But what does bother me is that they seize the points of people who have violated no term or condition, points they claim repeatedly and regularly that their customers “earn.”
@Andrew Chase will do the same thing and did it to me until I filed formal complaints to resolve it. And in my opinion this is the tip of the iceberg. Expect to see more of this with every issuer. And I feel for you guys. I also think you will get the points back or a settlement. Forget class actions. They are stupid and a waste of time. You don’t want to wait for years for the points.
Citibank, is one of the worst banks in the country. I never due business with them, unless it would be for quick points.
I agree with @boraxo. Citi is free to act in its best interest and prune unprofitable and “abusive” cardholders.
Citibank is generally horrible. They used to have a card called Drivers Edge, the points could be spent most efficiently on car repairs. I had a good half hour argument with the customer service people who insisted that brakes were not really part of the car and therefore didnt qualify as car repairs. through the years I have had many ridiculous issues with them.
Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.
This story plays itself out over and over again and the same people crop up feigning indignance that they are good customers and couldn’t possibly have deserved what happened. I’m not buying what it is that you’re selling.
@Seth Miller – you’re not buy what who is selling? (If it’s mine, then I wonder what you think I’m selling in my post, as the very first line suggests I am shrugging my shoulders rather than being indignant.)
@TimL – actually Drivers Edge points were most efficiently combined into a ThankYou Points card and spent on domestic business class tickets which you would then cancel and retain value as credits. Gas/groceries yielded a 36% rebate that way… 🙂
@Dom – The people arguing citi can’t shut down their cards are idiots.
What is an issue is citi seizing points for things that don’t meet a legal standard of fraud. (Yes, I get that they wrote T&C to make that possible, but they also advertise the points as “earned” which a reasonable adult would infer means they are yours unless earned by fraud.) Cf. Amex. Amex CFRed me a couple years ago, but they still gave me my accrued points when they decided they did not want to continue doing business with me.
Seth, I’m curious as to who you would name as “the same people crop up feigning indignance that they are good customers”?
@HansGolden Were you able to sign up for Amex again?
@RP: In 2008-ish, Amex FR’ed me as triggered by my manufactured spend. When they saw my annual income (hint: it was very low), they used that as the reason for shutting all my cards. I’m applied twice since and each time they’ve asked for the IRS form. Since my annual income has not risen significantly until 2012 (and I haven’t filed my taxes for that year yet), I haven’t bothered even submitting the IRS form allowing them to pull my taxes. I’ll apply again as soon as I get my 2012 taxes filed. They explicitly told me I wasn’t banned, just they didn’t feel comfortable extending credit to me ATM. (I felt it was a little hypocritical that they asked for my household income on the app–which I gave including my parents’ income because I lived at home at the time–but when it came to FR, they refused to consider that income.)
Again, the angries come out and support the CC companies. Its almost laughable how bitter some people can be. “Pigs getting slaughtered” “too much” “abusive” all ridiculously vague and general. Waiting for someone to pop off with, “I cant describe “too much spend” but I’ll know it when I see it”. So much for our tight knit community of milers sticking together.
Suddenly, being denied for the 5x Thank you card (first denial in many years) does not make me too sad.
I feel for the ones affected.
Stuff always happens in this game, this is just another development. Hang in there:-)
Some interesting viewpoints here. I’m one of the folks who got all their Citi credit cards cancelled for buying gift cards.
The folks using the cliché about “pigs being slaughtered” are naïve. The heavy users did fine: they’ve gotten hundreds of thousands of Thank You points and — aware of the risks — cashed them out. The folks who have gotten hurt here are the casual users who’ve bought occasional gift cards, didn’t see themselves as engaging in “risky” behavior and therefore kept reasonable balances in their Thank You account for future air travel. You didn’t have to buy many gift cards to be shut town, while other big spenders are still going strong. The shutdowns have been rather random, but have gotten more intense lately.
I don’t think anyone buying gift cards and earning 5x was a saint, but the customers don’t set the rules — the banks do. Citi incentivized people to spend lots of money at gas stations, grocery stores and drugstores, and that’s exactly what they did. It’s wrong for a bank to say “go earn those bonus points,” but then shut them down if they earn more than the bank would like. Far better would be for the bank to set reasonable rules that everyone can live with (like cap the number of bonus points you can earn), or at least warn the gift card buyers that their spending is not “reasonable,” and cut off their future bonuses.
There also seem to be some members of the “mileage community” who somehow see this gift card spending as a scam. To that, I would say that folks who live in glass houses should not throw stones. I think 99% of the folks reading this post have “bent” some “rule of propriety” with a credit card or travel related matter. Like did you sign up for a credit card only for the bonus and then put the card away? Wham — you just “stole” 50,000 miles from the bank. What about getting a credit card bonus offer twice, when the rules say one-time only? Or did you ever do a trick to hold an airline reservation that wasn’t 100% kosher, or use a car rental code for an organization you didn’t belong to?
Everyone who travels uses “tricks” of some kind. Or at least they should. 🙂 As I said, there are no saints here, but the customers are way more in the right here than the bank. They played by the published rules; Citi did not.
@HansGolden you know darned well that household income has a specific meaning, and doesn’t include your parents’ income even if you live with them 😉
@Gary: Actually, I didn’t and don’t. In fact, I even recently saw a formal definition of it in current legal discussions because of the current legislative shifts: something along the lines of “that which you would reasonably have access to in order to repay the debt”. That was the case with my parents income: if I had defaulted on my debt, they would have probably paid it (and had me pay them back over time).
Investopedia says this: “Household Income: The combined gross income of all the members of a household who are 15 years old and older. Individuals do not have to be related in any way to be considered members of the same household. Alternatively, household income is the combined income of all members of a household who jointly apply for credit. Household income is an important risk measure used by lenders for underwriting loans.”
Is it defined differently somewhere?
@HansGolden you provide a definition that requires it to be the income of household members jointly applying for credit — which is not the case when a child applies while living in the home of their parents. You’re also providing definitions of household income that relate to national income accounting statistics — aggregate economic data — not to credit card applications.
Anything over what your household earns in a year is definitely too much spend.
@Gary: So you’re saying that the household income metric should not combine a husband and wife’s income either? When have you *ever* applied for a CC jointly as co-signors?
@Nick: You’ve obviously never run a business or had reimbursable business expenses.
@ Andrew- I agree with you. Anyone here who lost a lot of points should be fighting for the points. The card doesn’t matter at this point. Your example of AMEX ring s true they use some common sense in these things. Chase and Citi, definitely not. This is a test to see how many people will fight. Calling it fraud to scare people
Gary, that’s the reason the new law defines (IIRC) household income as “income reasonably understood to be accessible to repay the debt” because formally co-signing a CC is extremely rare.
Gary, I certainly realize that I could be wrong in the sense that that is not what banks are looking for. However, I would be eager to hear a definition of what they are looking for. In any case, if household income is not actually household income, you should do a well-sourced, well-researched educational post on the topic. I’m sure I’m not the only one that had read “household income” at face value (and I can honestly say there was no knowledge on my part they might be wanting something other than actual household income, especially because it made so much sense: my risk of default was directly related to my household income, not my personal income).
@iahphx I am with you especially the fact that Citi should have warned customers if they viewed that as a violation as a warning. Not doing that shows malice on their part. I don’t agree when you say somebody getting a card for the bonus and then not using it whatever. That is why some of the cards have min spend. Getting a bonus and not using a card breaks no terms etc. They hope you use it and carry a balance at 20%+. That is the trick.
Talk about discussion hijacking. This important subject is not about how income is defined on apps or otherwise.
People who just have to discuss some other topic should find an appropriate place to have that conversation.
#61 @Nick a perfect example of the flawed logic of defining too much. My charges regularly extend past my earnings as I only keep a fraction of what I purchase as profit (my income). So my expenses always exceed my income and thats without any manu spend.
After FTUDC, I was close to giving Citi my business again. Not too upset at the lost opportunity, they’re a bunch of wankers.
Hopefully Chase won’t follow Citi’s lead and begin closing Ink cards and confiscating UR points because of giftcard purchases or manufactured spend.
@robertw
Actually, this is really no different than getting a card, meeting the bonus, putting it away, and then cancelling the card before the first annual fee. In both instances, you’ve broken no WRITTEN terms. In Citi’s eyes, you’re gaming the system and costing them money. It would not surprise me if someday they decide to ban churners. It would be a sad day, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
Chase sells GCs on their website – and the ONLY way you can buy them is with a Chase GC. So the next time you get in a discussion with anyone at Chase, just bring that fact up. It shoots down all the nonsense that using a CC to buy GCs violates T&Cs.
@Paul FYI Chase (like Citi) can and will make up any policy they want and apply it in any way. They could tell you that only their (chase gfs) can be bought as you mentioned or state the following: we closely monitor customer accounts and can review any such transactions. If you press them harder, they might claim bank regulations and the like.
I should have been clearer, spend significantly exceeding income likely triggers an audit. It’s pretty easy to distinguish legitimate spend vs manufactured spend.
Good point Nick. I agree with that clarification
There was never a commission paying affiliate link. Had there been, then despite your concern about citi, this card would have been pumped hard. The ability to create 5 cents per dollar of manufactured spend (4 cents net of costs) was tremendous….amongst the best offers this year.
Who has abused the system more than the corporate-terrorist-banksters and other fraudster financial corporations (and executives) who commit crime after crime after crime, evade paying their share of taxes, got trillion$ in welfare…? And now, “record profits”?
@craz + boraxo: yeah, the Nazis also had their willing, ardent supporters…
The heck with all of this … I am back to collecting Coca Cola points! 😉
@kalboz a few yrs ago I had a ton of coke points. forgot to add any for a while and then they cleared my account out. I started again and a few weeks ago the same thing happened. I emailed them and they restored the points :=)
If I was a banker listening to HansGolden logic I would back date the closing of all his accounts and then make his Daddy sign for everything………seeing some of ages of the FFU there are a bunch others in the same demographic and same whine so good riddance to their bonus miles…….
@Gary. I am among the customers whose TY accounts were locked then all cards closed with just a couple GCs purchases because Citi extended a retention bonus offer on 2 of my OLD Preferred cards from 2006 and2 2008. Citi confiscated hundreds of thousands of TYPs largely earned from 2009 on Premier card from our heavy travel that year, that I saved for future usage. A Citi rep called me on Thursday informed me the reason for account closure was due to “Fraud”. I did not commit “Fraud”. No where in any of the written T&Cs of the card, or the TY program rules says buying Gift Cards is considered committing “Fraud”. No mention anywhere that Citicard cannot be used to buy Gift Card. Never a warning notice to unwary customers that Citi does not allow gift card purchase with its cards.
The “Fraud” is on Citi’s part because it advertises its products with deceiving practices and then use the undefined T&Cs to steal customers’ previously earned points.
Filing complaints to government agencies now.
I also want to point out I am not the person posted in the comment section of this article whose handle is Happy.
Lets not forget that not everyone keeps or gets the CCs for Pts or Miles perse. Alot of folks get the bonus and then turn around and sell the pts or miles to Brokers.
Theres even 1 site where theres a banner ad across the top of it. I believe the owner of that site has something to do with it. This way they make out on all ends, referrals from people getting the CCs via their links, and has some Mods that are the brokers
Not everyone is interested in free flights or hotel rooms, they want the cash. Of cause the Brokers are selling the premium seats to those places where they can get the biggest profits and people post on MP & FT wondering why Award seats are so hard to find
But during The Mint days when I went to a bank to use its coin machine, there was a guy already using it. Seems his CC paid him 1% cash back and he ordered the coins to make that $20 , which he felt was quick $$.I didnt bother educating him on getting the bonus sign ups.
I have a friend who every time he gets a new CC and sells his miles/pts calls to tell me how dumb I amn for not selling mine. If he gets onto a plane once a year thats alot, he just wants his $$ ASAP. heck in certain NJ towns walk into a CVS or WM and if you have acertain look to you, they will tell you no GCs with CCs. 1 CVS ran out of VRs w/o having sold them.The people would go in take them off the hook and hide them around the store so that they could have a ready supply each day.
Sure the CC issuers should have thought it all out, but when these things are being done can you blame them. tahts what killed many a promo once word gets out and people pig out, the goose will be slaughtered, usually by those who couldnt care if it is or isnt and their motto is get all you can before its no more
I collected about 500K in points primarily paying taxes with the TYP card last year at 5% for 6 months. So I paid a bunch for those points at 2% plus fee, and then Citi can just turn around and confiscate them! And it sounds like redeeming the points for mortgage payment can be one of the triggers!
They haven’t done it yet, but it sure is leaving me concerned! I may have bought a couple of VR’s using a Premier card on quarterly bonus, and also on Citi Dividend card for quarterly bonus as well.
@flyingboat for now lay low. no more vrs or anything like that. If you have a need or way to spend the points, do so if you are concerned. I believe those that dispute will get the points back. I do know some others here with Citi might do the same. Seems that hoarding a lot of points does have some risk for sure. With AARP I kept spending them but I did not do any manufactured spend.