In laying out what happened on the United Express flight headed from Chicago to Louisville last night, I’ve largely felt that United was doing its best under a set of bad circumstances.
- They had to get 4 crew members to Louisville to operate a flight the next day.
- They offered voluntary denied boarding compensation up to $800, a hotel night, and re-accommodation the next day.
- When there weren’t takers at that price, they asked 4 passengers to get off the plane.
Passengers who are involuntarily denied boarding are generally entitled to cash compensation, in this case 4 times the cost of their ticket up to $1350.
United CEO Oscar Munoz in Chicago
It’s an unfortunate circumstance, but if they didn’t want to fly the next day an Uber should have been about $300 (and a four and a half hour drive).
We don’t know exactly what transpired from the time the customer was asked and refused to leave. Three officers were called, and ultimately dragged the man on the ground off the aircraft and bloodied him in the process.
Without access to video and audio of what happened leading up to this, I cannot say for sure, although my hunch is that the officers could have managed the situation less confrontationally so that it didn’t come to this. In assessing blame between United, the officers, and the passenger my guess is that United is the least to blame here.
United CEO Oscar Munoz Cutting the Ribbon on the Airline’s First New Boeing 777-300ER
But once the incident did occur, the airline’s response has been asinine.
Here’s their statement attributed to United’s CEO Oscar Munoz apologizing that customers had to be re-accommodated — as opposed to being shocked, angry, or disappointed that a customer was dragged off and bloodied.
United flight 3411.
That’s the exact wrong way to go with this. When a crisis event happens, don’t run from it run towards it so critics have nowhere to go.
Munoz shouldn’t say the customer was inconvenienced, he should say it was a terrible, horrible experience. He shouldn’t say it’s upsetting, he’s angry and he’s going to get to the bottom of it. Be active. Show actual concern, don’t be mealy mouthed.
Gary, you are spot on! Don’t you love these companies that are effectively their own worst enemy!
This is what happens when the lawyers and “public relations specialists” think they run the company.
I totally agree with you Gary. It was United’s fault. They overbooked passengers. How hard is it to count the number of seats and the number of boarding passes that had been scanned? They did not handle this situation in a civilized way.
United is the least to blame?!?!? Ughhh… how about if they stopped their practice of overbooking this wouldn’t have happened OR really the United gate agents are to blame because if this was oversold, the pax shouldn’t have been allowed to even board the plane to begin with thus avoiding the whole situation to begin with. Stop making excuses for United Gary… if it only cost a $300 Uber ride, then why couldn’t the crew take that Uber instead of the customer?
British Airways has Cruz.
United have Munoz.
Cast from the same mound and neither fit to enhance or improve the brand they head.
Aviation Darwinism at its best from them both this week.
@Gary seriously, United isn’t to blame here? I fault the airline 100% for boarding a full plane and then having to remove people. All they had to do was not allow some passengers to board – it’s called denied BOARDING for a reason, not “call the po-lice to beat you off the plane.”
And as others have pointed out, there ARE occupations where getting back to work is actually really important – I am United wishes they’d have offered a few hundred more bucks to get people moving before they got this wonderful free PR. Or send those 4 crew members via Uber if it’s so easy.
Put another way, it is very telling that the passenger got BACK on the plane. That is before the Internet erupted – obviously they knew they screwed something up pretty badly, and tried to unwind it.
Just so.
“The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
Yes, Oscar, we saw how you “reaccomodated the passenger.” Since the fish stinks from it’s head, such cluelessness reveals where this kind of behavior towards customers comes from. And yes as a forty year customer who was devalued by Mileage Minus (75%) I’m gloating to see you and your airline devalued to dirt by a billion dollar PR hit. Maybe you can start by telling your staff that the next one who tells a Customer “Not one more word or I’m having you removed” will be removed? Your authoritarian junta is over.
@jfhscott What happens when the lawyers and PR people run the company? The United response is idiotic, it looks like what happens when you just react WITHOUT working with your legal and PR teams.
Re: an Uber being $300 — I imagine it would be very difficult to find a driver willing to make the trip.
United is really redefining what re-accommodated means.
Soon you’ll hear their passengers saying “Please, please don’t re-accommodate me.”
My guess is UA doesn’t want to come out bashing Chicago cops for doing what they were asked to do by UA. Without knowing all the facts it’s hard for even UA to comment. This probably wan’t the best, but he had to say something and I believe Oscar will do the right thing.
Gary, I love your blog but not holding UA accountable is unreasonable. I need to review your posts but I think two facts are material to the analysis.
1. UA didn’t go above 800 dollars. Why? They might have gotten a volunteer by going hire.
2. The reason for the “overbooking” is because UA wanted to load the plane with 4 of their own personnel. If you are going to do that you probably should (1) not drag people off the plane; (2) avoid inconveniencing revs; (3) pay the inconvenienced pax more than $800 bucks if there are no takers.
So what led up to needing those seats? What sort of situation results in an entire crew needing to get to the out-station, while the aircraft is already there?
If a gate agent tries to stop me from boarding, am I allowed to punch him/her in the face? Is that a viable option?
@Bill in hindsight United should have done things differently. Absolutely.
At the time, knowing what they knew at each stage —
* They needed to get 4 crew to Louisville to operate a flight, so there were 4 fewer seats for passengers
* They needed volunteers, offered up to $800 plus a hotel room and travel the next day
* That didn’t work. Maybe they should have gone higher, they also needed to get the flight out, they don’t want a crew to go illegal, the crew being flown to Louisville have to meet government-mandated minimum rest.
* United Express gate agents don’t have AUTHORITY to implement a new bidding procedure.
* And it was not at all foreseeable things would end this way.
They involuntarily denied boarding to 4 passengers. The first 2 got off without incident. The doctor refused to go. When a passenger refuses to follow crew orders, they call the police.
And between the doctor and the police the situation escalated. United wasn’t involved, nor could they have foreseen how things would transpire.
@David actually United appointed its lawyer to run customer service!
UA’s problem — and that of other airlines — is that they’re very rule-oriented in their operations. All airlines are, as it’s the only way to run a safe and efficient operation. They followed their rules: no one is claiming they didn’t. If you get a guy who won’t get off a plane — even though the rules say he should — you call the police. The police then handle the matter as they see fit (and, of course, police are going to MAKE you get off if you don’t listen to them).
The problem is that in this age of social media, following the rules probably isn’t good enough. People will side with the rulebreakers when they’re seen being dragged off the plane — especially when the rules don’t seem terribly fair.
It seems like UA needs new rules. And, I suspect, they and the other airlines will implement them in response to the negative press this incident is getting.
“No passenger should have to shed a drop of blood to fly the friendly skies with United.” All he had to say
They didnt offer 800 USD. they offer 800 United funny money. Delta offers 1300 amex gift cards.
I stop taking vouches once UA had gone revenue based since I dont care about EQM and wont earn RDM anymore
@Unacceptable love your fake email address, ‘suckmyballs’ really? And you’re criticizing ME? 😉
United didn’t have the option to put crew in a 4.5 hour Uber, they’re governed by union contracts.
And blaming overbooking doesn’t make sense in this case since the issue wasn’t more seats sold than seats on the plane.
@Jason
I live in a Chicago burb. Retired. I am not an Uber driver, but if someone called me at midnight and offered me $300 to drive some people ORD-SDF and back alone, I’d be there in a shot.
There must be 100000 people in Chicago like me.
United is the MOST to blame as they created the situation! Once they realized that they needed to get four passengers OFF the plane they should have done EVERYTHING in their power to get volunteers and $800 plus hotel is NOT even close…if they had gone up to $1500 CASH and *still* had no takers I would be a little more sympathetic to United’s dilemma. But even then they should have offered to either make arrangements with another airline OR an Uber/Limo/Taxi for that night.
The solution isn’t to call in the police! In terms of the cost in PR and damage to their reputation $1500 or more in cash per person to get volunteers would have been a far cheaper resolution.
**Until we hold airlines accountable for their misdeeds/mismanagement they will NEVER change**
The passenger did nothing wrong. Passenger bought ticket with money, got boarding pass, was scanned at gate and boarded flight like everyone else. Passenger did nothing wrong.
There was no denied boarding.
There was no involuntary denied boarding.
Period.
Passenger did nothing wrong. We are not talking about what happened later.
@Carlos the passenger refused crewmember instructions, it may not be ‘fair’ but is legally wrong
United should consider a silent auction for volunteers. Let passengers submit their asking price to the gate agent and, in this case, the lowest four offers would get bumped. It’s a perfectly fair, civil and efficient way to make everybody happy.
Until then, let this be another example of why solving scarcity with government coercion doesn’t work.
Sincere question for Gary — are you now or have you ever been compensated by United Airlines? Directly or indirectly? I ask because I’m quite taken aback by your ability to hold them completely unaccountable for what to me seems to be a clear failure on multiple levels.
Also, at what point exactly did your blog start attracting the zealot racists that are more typical of the Brietbart readership? Odd that your other posts seem to have some pretty bigoted comments that you seem to steer clear of. In short, WTF man.
This is SO SHAMEFUL. Munoz is NOT qualified to run a milk truck certainly not an airline. If Munoz had to be somewhere bet he would say it’s important. Traveling on an airline is important to all passengers mr Munoz. If the airlines have another financial meltdown, I would prefer that you and United go first. This horribly shameful. Poof with you.
Look, I get it. The public hates the airlines. They nickle and dime passengers on everything, charge cancellation fees and penalties, and often deliver a miserable flying experience. So when a story like this pops up everyone piles on as payback. But really now, who in this day and age does NOT know that airlines overbook, that passengers get bumped all the time, and that refusing to obey crew orders can get you kicked off an aircraft?
Maybe he doesn’t care, hence the response. He probably became desensitized to things such as passengers being denied boarding, and maybe in his mind not following crew instructions. But there has to be some blame to the man that was dragged out as well. Even if he is a doctor and had to see patients the next day, he was reaccomodated on the 3pm flight, he would have still been able to make all his appointments the next day.
@Gary And what authority did the gate agent or any crew member have to remove the passenger?You cannot use the argument of “denied boarding” since the passenger already boarded the flight. The passenger was not a threat to anyone so the crew would not have a reason to remove him.
And once the passenger was on the plane and given boarding, the gate agent has no authority to remove him.
Ironic that your “United was doing the best under a set of bad circumstances” is worse than Munoz communication. Nobody involved did their best here. And they are all continuing to fumble the ball.
United is 100% at fault for not offering cash, and more than $800.
They should have offered $1350 cash. Maybe it’s corporate who says $800 is max under all circumstances but it’s still United at fault.
As others said, company scrip isn’t as attractive as cash.
It’s astounding that UA couldn’t figure out they needed four more seats for the extra crew headed to Louisville until after everyone was boarded. That’s idiotic. Second, you keep offering more compensation until someone volunteers. Worst case scenario, they offer a few people so much compensation that the flight operates for zero profit. Even then, the crew gets to the other flight, and the flight gets the remaining passengers there on time. Their idiotic approach led to a passenger being bloodied, it being plastered all over the internet, and now a very good chance of them losing out on who knows, 10x, 100x, maybe 1000x the amount they would have paid out in lost business. It amazes me how stupid business people can be sometimes. The CEO of a Fortune 500 company should be doing anything he can to make it right, not walking a tightrope.
@Gary – I follow some of your logic, but how do you NOT put some blame on United and their overbooking tactics for causing this mess? Sure, you say this wasn’t about “more seats sold than on the plane”….but it was – if there wasn’t 4 United personnel that suddenly needed to board the plane, there would have been plenty of seats for the customers, right? The fact you are spouting the technicals of what defines “overbooking” is beyond me – and makes me question your objectives here and perhaps loyalties?
And sure, United didn’t know what was going to happen – they followed their rules (their own rules?) and sure – the police or law enforcement were responsible for the handling of said passenger.
But hell – United could have done a lot more to remedy this situation, but didn’t because they value $$$ over customers. Couple options come to mind:
1. How about not overbooking the flight to begin with? Oh but wait, that’s how United makes sure it’s planes are all full and maximizes utility and $$$. So no, that’s not an option.
2. Keep overbooking but provide enough incentive for people to give up their seats. Where does this “max” $1350 rule come from? I bet this is a United limit/max? If so, that’s their problem – the laws of supply and demand are different for every situation and every time/day/flight – United of ALL people should know that. Why do you think booking a last second flight with them is so expensive? So they offered $800 and no one took it – well that tells you that is not the market price. Their rules should be flexible – just like their fares are flexible depending on the route, day, time of departure, etc. That’s like us limiting United to a max price for a ticket – do you think they’d be cool with that? So, continuing on – why didn’t United keep upping the ante? $1200. $1350. Hell, first class ticket to anywhere in the world. I guarantee you 4 people would of jumped at that chance. So why didn’t United do any of this? Because again, they only care about $$$.
3. Ok, so in the imaginary scenario where everyone HAS to get from Chicago to Louisville – even turning down first class tickets worth $6000. Well, United screwed up with the overbooking (point 1), and tried compensating people for giving up their tickets (point 2) – so assuming they respect and value each customer – the only alternative for them is to PAY for THEIR OWN mistake. Get another plane there for their four people. Or, *gasp* put them on another airline/flight. Hire a private jet or helicopter. All of these things are within United’s control. Why wouldn’t they do it? Because AGAIN – they care about $$$ over customers.
Stop trying to shift the onus away from United. Make no mistake – Munoz will get fired over this.
@UnitedStooge – for avoidance of doubt I have never received compensation from United except as an inconvenienced passenger e.g. when they lost my luggage
@Gary, you are just getting abused on here from people who are misreading you (either accidentally or purposefully). How do you put up with this? If it were my blog I’d delete them all but you obviously have much thicker skin than me.
I completely agree with you that al three parties are to blame. If united had offered more money they probably would have gotten volunteers. If the man hadn’t disobeyed they wouldn’t have called the police. And obviously the police didn’t need to injure the man. Sad situation all around and hopefully they can all learn from it. The united response to this is about 10x worse than their initial problem.
@Mwwalk – I assume the misreading is accidental, not everyone can think clearly about an incident that justifiably triggers an emotional response. I get that.
Gary you keep saying that the passenger did not follow crew instructions as if that is a crime in itself. Passenger does not have to follow illegal instructions. What if a Crewmember asks a passenger do a striptease for me does the passenger have to do that or be roughed up by cops?
Involuntary Denied Boarding rules apply before boarding. After United allowed the passenger to board they have no legal right to ask him to deboard.
If you think otherwise please find and quote any regulation which allows airlines to disembark a passenger for commercial reasons (not safety reasons)
Smart doctor knew that United vouchers are a pain to use before they expire, I don’t blame him for not wanting to mess with them. He makes $800 before lunch.
Delta is hitting $1000 in real USD gift cards all the time on my oversold flights during the reverse auction at the gate, surprise surprise they always get the needed volunteers and we can board early. Mentally $1000 is the hurdle for people knowing they’ll be in a dirty airport motel that night and miss a day of work/vacation.
Buh Bye United…even AA is better than you now.
Gary, I made similar comments to another of your posts in regards to this incident but I wanted to reiterate a few points about United. I believe you are correct in stating this is a much bigger story than people and United realize and that it will get much bigger and worse for United. But as for United being the “least” to blame, my experience has been that United is a particularly tone-deaf company that tends to treat its customers with a particular intense disregard and carelessness that borders on the sadistic. So the fact that United is in the middle of this “sh#*-storm” probably bothers fewer people than would otherwise and they kinda deserve all that they get. United “drove the bus” in regards to this incident and they could have controlled almost every aspect of what transpired. You lose control when you bring in the “authorities” but United should have known that anything could have happened after they “called the cops” and that “anything” will reflect badly on United. So I’m not going to let United “off the hook” just because a few “rogue” cops went “rogue.” “Going rogue” seems to be what cops do a lot these days and United should have resolved this incident before they had to “call the cops.”
@Andrew —> The flight was NOT overbooked! It was full. And through whatever “glitch” in the system, “all of a sudden” there were four UA employees who need to get from Chicago to Louisville in order to work a flight departing the next day. And so, UA decided four paying passengers had to go . . . or rather, not go as the case may be.
@Gary, and THIS is where you are wrong re: United’s blame. I have no idea as to the “hows and whys,” but somewhere, someone at UA should have known — probably *did* know — that these four people needed to be in Louisville. And so, the voluntary/involuntary bumping should have taken place PRIOR TO BOARDING THE AIRCRAFT. What did UA do with their checked bags? Unload them all and search for the one (or two or three or four) belonging to the person(s) being bumped?
You are, Gary, 100% correct that the United Pilot in Command has the authority to order people off “his” (or her) plane, and that passengers must comply with the pilot’s orders. HOWEVER, I am not aware that the pilot was the one who said (e.g.) “People in Seats 5E&F, 9A and 12C — off my aircraft NOW!” It was the Gate staff. They were the ones who apparently called the police. You may think I’m splitting hairs here, and you might be right, but the bottom line is that UA mishandled the situation from the get-go; excessive force by law enforcement certainly didn’t help. Neither did the statements from UA last night, nor Oscar Muñoz’s idiotic one today. Talk about throwing Jet Fuel on the fire . . .
If I were the CEO’s of AA and DL, I’d be thanking the aviation deities that it wasn’t my airline! And if I were the Chief Revenue Officers of AA and DL, I’d be looking to add capacity at O’Hare . . .
Gary,
I think in the end, UA will lose more money than it would have cost to charter a private jet for those 4 crew. Poor logistical planning and union contracts are insufficient reasons to let a situation rise to this level. No excuses justify what happened here.
I disagree with you that UA is the ‘least’ to blame here. As others have said, they are in the position to create the best possible flying experience for their customers, both on the ground and in the air, and in the process earn the customer’s loyalty and future business. Building future revenue. Epic fail, and there isn’t an argument against that. Please do not throw out Contract of Carriage laws, because those are designed to protect the carrier when they have this type of unprofessional and unethical behavior in the treatment of paying customers.
All of that comes later. In the beginning, UA has a choice to develop a way for crews to get where they need to go. The first time airlines thought it was ok to IDB paying passengers in favor of relocating crews, they failed. They = all airlines. This situation is like saying your employer today has the police physically arrest one of your customers that was walking in the door to do business, because you were late or had to get to work on time because the back door was locked? Preposterous, even in the ‘least’…
Let’s wake up the sleeping elephant in the room. Could the fact that he was Asian in the new America have played a part?
United net income 2016 $ 3 Billion dollars
Munoz salary/comp $ 7 million
Chicago style beat down of physician over $800 ??
How can you allow United to skate on this one?
Shame on you
I asked this of Lucky and got no response hopefully someone here will. There are LOTS of unanswered questions, when did United (republic) realize they needed to get the crew to Louisville? Was the crew at the gate waiting to board, or did the crew show up AFTER boarding had finished and that is when gate agents found out they needed 4 seats? I feel it was the later and is so, then the airline has NO right to kick anyone off the flight, UA just needed to use the corporate jet to get the crew where it needed to be. I wish we will hear the final outcome of what will happen, but I’m sure the settlement to the Dr. will prevent him speaking…
When I google ‘oscar munoz images’ two come up that are pretty funny;
One is a quote by him from BUSINESS INSIDER where he’s quoted as saying;
“We, as an industry, have made flying difficult” (understatement of the year award?)
The other is an image of him with words written behind him reading –
‘READY TO SOAR?’
I think it should read –
‘READY TO BE SORE?’
Just a question. Does anyone know if it was $800 cash or $800 in a “credit”. From those who have taken compensation, it seemed that finding a ticket they could use the voucher on was as difficult as finding a saver domestic ticket.
I had a friend with an expiring voucher show up at the airport on a Friday with a packed bag. He said, fly me somewhere today with this credit and home on Sunday. I don’t care where. They couldn’t find one place where he could go.
I think the PR problem for United here is that most casual members of the public have no idea that they can be booted from a flight so that United can move its own employees around. I just don’t know how United spins that part. It would be one thing if this were weather related, an equipment problem, weight distribution or overbooking. But it wasn’t. This was one of the big four domestic airlines, which has a fleet of over 700 aircraft, in its hub in Chicago forcing confirmed and ticketed passengers off the flight so that it could fix its own scheduling issues. to a city relatively closeby.
It’s one thing to talk about how this is industry practice, or that this is the way it is, and that following crewmember instructions is required. But they’ll never win a PR war here. They can’t. Because this is going to come as a surprise to many people. An elderly man ends up bloody, and the event that precipitated it is United doing something that most people who shell out good money for tickets have no idea that airline can do in the first place. Not good. Their response so far has been pretty tone deaf.
If getting to Kentucky on an Uber was a reasonable course of action, it should’ve been reasonable for the four United crew as well, not just the ACTUALLY PAYING CUSTOMER. And if United needs volunteers, it should get actual volunteers by raising its offer until people come forward instead of calling people volunteers whose faces they deign necessary to re-accommodate into armwrests. As asinine as United’s response to this has been, the defense of United’s actions here is still more asinine.
Few people are aware that airlines have the power to desert you at will. If that’s the policy United wants to affect than they should make that clear in the booking process by allowing people to insure themselves against those outcomes- a different class of fares for people that are willing to take the risk of being forced to take a buyout come what may. United isn’t willing to because it wants to hide those costs from the consumer, because only a few will have their faces smashed into an armwrest, so most won’t know that’s the risk they’re taking by flying the airline. How you could defend such blatant deception is beyond me.
@Majorajam – except for United’s union contracts
I’ll never fly with you guys again! After what just happen! And all you guys can say we are looking into it. This man was humiliated not just cause of a seat due to his race!! As a black person that travels a lot you guys will be over look when it comes to flying anywhere I go. With all the money you guys have have a plane for you’re works that needs to be elsewhere or just use common sense and stop over booking. I don’t care I know me and family and friends will not be flying you guys ever again.
Increase the compensation to $3000 and someone gets off the plane. It’s a small cost for a rare situation. United is TOTALLY culpable. There is zero doubt that the situation could have been averted at the right cost…this makes United culpable since they chose to overbook the flight. The fact that this man’s injuries could have been avoided makes United culpable. United called security in over cost so that decision is on them
This is the past repeating it’s self.
Volunteer to join the military or be arrested for avoiding the draft.
Volunteer to get off or be forced to get off.
Do it or be shot sort of mentality?
I think the bottom-line issue here is that a passenger who bought a ticket was beat up and forcibly dragged from a plane in order to accommodate 4 crew members. That is morally wrong, whether or not legal.
I cannot agree that United had no other alternative, and that if they offered $800, they could not offer more, or hire a car service or somehow else transport their crew.
Deeper than that, I think that what is truly shocking here is that we expect major corporations to act as the mature, sophisticated actors they are supposed to be. The idea that a company can react with vicious violence to non-violent resistance, especially when they are in the wrong is, to me, horrifying. (Regardless of the legality of overbooking, I think most would agree that it is morally wrong to throw someone with a confirmed seat off an aircraft).
We expect violent people to be met with state violence. We do not expect peaceful citizens who are fundamentally right to be brutalized by the state, acting at the behest of a corporation.
100% blame to United by not offering reasonable compensation in the first place. They absolutely could have gotten volunteers. $800 is not enough to get someone with a job off the plane. Since they were obligated by law to go to $1350 for IDB, why not go to $1,350 to START? I know, because its United and their completely incompetent, brand-destroying partner United Express.
What kind of toxic corporate culture allows this to occur? The gate agents, the crew, everyone. they just stood by and watched this happen like its an everyday occurrence? Munoz needs to take a bullet for this one. Where is the United Board? I thought they were fed up with these shenanigans.
As for Uber, my colleague took Uber from Columbus to Cleveland and from Cleveland to Detroit last week because Delta had their own meltdown. it was not a problem at all finding an Uber driver willing to do these runs for very reasonable costs. (Ie. Much less than flying)
Gary,
You need to re-assess what you consider wrong and right. United made a series of mistakes and situation was entirely foreseeable. United had complete control over the situation. This was not an overbooked flight. This was united not taking care of its customers. It is hardly least at fault. The passenger was wrong to refuse orders, but I understand the response. United does only restricted credits and $800 is not worth it. I was on a DL flight 2 weeks ago and the comp was $1500 in cash. People could not bump themselves fast enough. Hopefully united figures out a better policy for the situation. What a messed up company!
What’s Munoz’s home address? Maybe someone can pay him a visit to help him better understand the impact of this situation.
United Airlines and its CEO should be ashamed for the barbaric and unconscionable treatment of a paying passenger. The fact that it was an effort to seat United Airlines employees on an overbooked flight just amplifies the offensive and unwarranted action the airline took to coddle its employees at the expense of a paying passenger. Not only was the action unbelievably offensive, it was an illegal assault on the passenger. I will never fly on United Airlines again. And, any reasonable person should demand the immediate removal of an CEO who would support the action of his employees in this unconscionable incident. SHAME ON YOU UNITED. You and your employees should been seen as nothing more than barbarians.
This discussion could also be taken up personally with Michael Bonds, Brett Hart, Greg Hart, Linda Jojo, Chris Kenny, Scott Kirby, and Andy Levy.
What would be proportional and appropriate punishment for United’s misbehavior?
Drag the CEO out of his comfy position?
Oscar Muñoz needs to be “re-accomodated.” Instead of a few hundred dollars, this is going to cost millions.
United committed a criminal act and is now engaging in a criminal conspiracy coverup. Local news reports state the United crew was on stand-by. If it was so important for them to fly that night, they should have boarded first as I’ve seen other airlines do many many times, otherwise drive them to their destination. United used the police to solve a business dispute and this is something one sees in police states, not in the USA. They overtly abused the high security processes in effect that will result in reduced effectiveness as more and more people begin to fight back against the unfair and immoral behavior. This will make flying more uncomfortable for everyone else. I vote for the resignation of the CEO and the local employees going to jail.
@Gary – I’m sure you feel like people are “misreading you”, but this is your statement that I believe most of us don’t agree with:
“In assessing blame between United, the officers, and the passenger my guess is that United is the least to blame here”
I honest to god don’t understand your logic on this.
Passenger: As a doctor, might of had patients to see the next day – NOT getting on the flight might leave patients that are requiring medical attention high and dry. Is that not just as important as United getting their four personnel to Louisville so they don’t have to cancel their flight? Oh and forgot to mention – this guy had a ticket to be on the plane!!
Officers: Sure, they used excessive force and did not follow protocol (based on latest reports).
United: Has a right to kick off paying customers, who don’t take their low “compensation alternative”, all in the name of getting their four personnel to Louisville so they don’t have to cancel a flight. To simplify – United put their priorities ahead of paying customers who ALL may have had just as important a reason to be on that flight – regardless of the cost (i mean, all of them didn’t bite on an $800 option – does that tell you something)? How on earth do you think United is *least* to blame here? If United wasn’t so greedy (they didn’t even go up to the legal $1350 max or compensate above that, and they could of put the 4 personnel on southwest or whatever), the passenger wouldn’t have become so irate and law enforcement would of never been called in the first place.
Please explain your logic here. FYI – your credibility is on the line.
@David I do stand by that statement, I think United is handling the PR badly but the most blame falls on the police and how they dragged and bloodied the passenger.
This is just bad management from the top down. The old adage that sh*t rolls down here is fitting; whenever you have to drag a paying customer away from what they paid for — regardless of whether its for a flight or not — there’s something very wrong with your company and, more importantly, the company’s culture. I know I’m mixing metaphors, but just the input from the group of miles hobbyists here would have made things better, and I’d guess most of us are not paid for our expertise. If I was a CEO I would be horrified at the way I’m treating my customers. I have to wonder if it’s complacency by the industry as a whole because they’ve been allowed to get away with so much for so long versus other service industries. Everyone at United from the CEO to the baggage handler, should be embarrassed at what took place.
F*** United, hope they get their ass sued, Munoz gets fired or resigns, Chicago cops thugs too, hope their stick goes down the shitter
Has Oscar Munoz ever been thrown off a flight? Can you imagine his large face bashed in if he refused? He should not be CEO. I will never patron United again. If they can do that to an old Asian guy, what will they do to others???!!!!
Why would anyone be surprised. United agents have been acting like thuggish enforcers for years now and it’s clear there was no correction from the top, hell it probably came from the top. They are belligerent toward polite customers and if you then at their invitation turn impolite they tell you that you cannot say another word or you will be removed. This is something a facist says, or someone doing performance art would do to illustrate a thug and outrage the audience. It has become the norm.
Then there’s the devaluation of Mileage Minus by 75% for average customers like myself who finally left after that insult after 40 years. They were so arrogant about it they told us to leave if we didn’t like it. We did.
Now the bill comes due. At least a billion dollars in brand damage, possibly not recoverable. You earned every cent of it United. You’re out of business! Better not say another word or….
@Gary – so please confirm – you are ok with United prioritizing their own staff, in the name of corporate profits, and removing paying customers who have ticketed seats for a flight, whenever they want? Or in other words, you agree that United’s needs are greater than the needs of customers who paid for flights (and presumably planned their lives assuming they would be on the flight)?
You are ok with United kicking off passengers, WITHOUT first trying every way possible to incentive people to give up their seats in such a situation? In this situation, you are ok with United only going up to $800 – and then forcefully kicking people off without their permission?
Since you are putting the onus on the police – you are implicitly saying you are FINE with all of these actions by United. How can you be an advocate for travelers like me with this belief system?
I am a long-time premier 1k member and am blown away by these actions by United. Given your background and industry experience, I expected a more holistic perspective from you.
After just reading that United CEO Oscar Munoz still defending his action, it’s clear that he feels no remorse for what he did. What a low life moron!
Last time I was “re-accommodated” like this it was by a gang of bullies outside my grammar school in 1959. If United really gave a flying fig they wouldn’t hire thugs to solve their overbooking problems. That same $300 Uber could have held all four of the people they decided belatedly needed to co-opt the paying customers’ seats, at a net savings to the company of at least $800 plus whatever the good doctor will get out of them in an out-of-court settlement for their brutal racist attack. I have no sympathy with those who would condone this sort of atrocious misconduct as the least of the available evils. And I need hardly say that had I not already decided this carrier was riddled with incompetence over the leggings kerfuffle, this latest scandal is by itself enough to convince me never to patronize UA again.
Despicable, inexcusable, and a red flag for everyone with important plans who must fly. Unbelievable disregard for passengers.
First, isn’t it about time CEOs stopped getting rewarded for failure with huge bailout packages? Second, if you give CEOs millions of dollars per year for many years and give 10s of millions to them when they leave despite the poor performance of the company is the board incompetent or perhaps corrupt? Shareholder value? Well I see where that’s going… right in some CEOs pocket, isn’t it!
Now, UA in the airline business. Are you telling me with they have never been able to afford a few small jets to get their crew and pilots off to wherever they need to be so they NEVER have to kick a customer off a plane?
How long has it been that they’ve been over booking flights? How long? This is event is pa-the-tic!
100% disagree they were the LEAST in the wrong. If a passenger is entitled to up to $1,350 – why not offer that before going nuclear? Why board the plane/issue boarding tickets first before selecting those that needed to standby? Why not use an alternative method of getting the crew to the airport?
This could have been diffused by United well before the man refused to leave or before the officers arrived!
For some customers getting to their destination at a time is 100 times more important than $ 800.00.
I really hope the CEO is fired. As someone who fly’s every week $800 is a joke if you really need to get passengers to give up their seat. The cost to them personally is more than this for a one day delay regardless of the cost of the flight. I cannot say I will never fly United as I unfortunately find myself as a frequent flyer in situations that I have to fly the best option BUT I swear with God as my witness I will never fly United if given a choice until their CEO is fired. I am amazed that this hasn’t gotten more attention. It is unbelievable and inexcusable. United is 100% at fault here.
The fact that you think the passenger is more to blame than United is asinine.
The passenger paid for the ticket, boarded the plane and was seated. He even offered to voluntarily accept a voucher until he realized he couldn’t get to Louisville until the next day, then he said no because he was a medical doctor and had to get to work the next day.
United has a policy which says their crew can bump anyone off whenever they want.
Why don’t you look at that policy as the source of the problem? United had a lot of things they could have done to handle this — the fact that anyone thinks the only logical way out was to forcibly kick a passenger out of his seat makes no sense.
Wow. What a mess. I was appalled by the video, as I would have been equally appalled were I a passenger on that plane witnessing this. I don’t care if the man was really a doctor, and I hope he didn’t have patients to see.
Unfortunately, Mr. Munoz has chosen to defend the employees. This perhaps comes from a good place, however misguided. As CEO, he has given effort to listen to employees, to help resolve grievances, and improve United’s poor customer service record, all of which have been effective. However, as a recent heart transplant patient himself, what if that ejected passenger were of a more delicate or health compromised position? Mr. Munoz should thank his lucky stars the passenger didn’t die during the ejection. I can only think United is trying to avoid liability. This is not over yet.
I cannot believe this as I just took the United flight from SFO to Boston. It can happen to anyone on the plane after well seated! Give me a break the United CEO! Shame on you! You should be fired!!!!!
Gary- you’re wrong on this. The pax is least at fault. United precipitated this whole affair on their own. If a getaway driver can be charged with murder when her accomplices are shot by their intended victim, then united is at fault for this man’s injuries regardless of what led up to it. And Munoz should probably go, if he doesn’t see that. That was not an apology
United won’t care at all – unless the pubic outrage hurts them financially. United was ALREADY terrible – horrible customer service, repeatedly lost bags, rude in-flight crews, cramped and overbooked flights the norm, broken lights, broken sound systems and broken seat recliners on planes. How about hitting them where it hurts – let’s cancel our United credit cards.
United is the least to blame in here? R u trying to make a joke or something? Untied is the main reason we should angry about. They kicked the customers out just for their own crew transportation. Is this the way how u treat customer? We got all kind of rules and obligations for taking a flight, and the airlines can simply just broke the deal with like it? And u r saying untied is the least should blame . Totally disagree
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4400076/United-Airlines-CEO-pens-email-defending-staff.html
The guy defended the action. I got my popcorn ready to witness some karma on this MF.
BULLSHIT!!! The passenger was already boarded and seated. There’s no excuse for the way that he was treated.
You are so full of shit, boy. You should stop writing on the internet immediately.
I am a New Zealand citizen and I once flew United. A “red eye” from Los Angeles to Boston and it was an OK experience, back in the early 1970’s. After what you guys did to the good Doctor on flight 4311 I don’t think I will consider flying with you again. Please remember two things:
1) Your paying passengers are your lifeline.
2) The very best advertising you can get is word-of-mouth and I reckon this is a dismal failure.
Poor performance United.
So many things wrong with what happened and CEO response and defense of staff adds insult to injury, literally. Tho guy was not a criminal or making threats. No reason to violently drag him off. He didn’t injure himself by falling onto armrest as airline claims. Video clearly shows he was slammed into armrest and floor, I’m disgusted by how he was treated simply for not wanting to leave a flight that he paid for. How is this accrued me simply because stupid airlines overbook?! It’s all about money, he clearly felt hecoykd not leave for whatever reason. He’s a doctor. What if someone was going home for surgery or a funeral or wedding? Would they be forced off? Why not move on if a passenger is this upset versus forcing him off? What if he didn’t clearly understand what was going on? In today’s world I wouldn’t be surprised if he thought he was being detained due to his race. What if it was someone hard of hearing or confused or emotionally unstable or what have you-you have no right resort to this barbaric treatment of paid customers because of your greedy ways of overbooking to make money and then you defend it as the CEO? I hate United more than ever, am disgusted and will never fly them again
Boycott United they are criminals. They should be shut down. Maybe the CEO would understand if someone called in security to whoop his butt.
United doing its best? Seriously? Their best was to wait till the flight was boarded and then go around asking for “voluntary” bump offs?
As a thought experiment, lets imagine that Gary checks in to The Oberoi, Mumbai. The hotel has a sign outside saying “rights of entry reserved”.
Gary has just checked in, and has headed in for a shower. While he is showering, a hotel staff knocks on the door, and tells Gary he has to check out as a hotel employee needs the room. Gary refuses. The hotel calls in the cops who assault Gary on the grounds of trespass.
What would Gary do? Basis his support for United, one would hope that he would agree that he is in the wrong and that the hotel did everything in its power to help him.
Gary, I used to visit your blog thrice a day. Why? As your writing style indicated that you understand what good service is. Sadly, it appears that good service is only reserved for those at the front of the plane, while poor sods like myself have to “volunteer” when the airline we are flying on fucks up.
I was thinking to myself if Oscar apologized and accommodated and got to the very bottom of this whole ordeal then I would be okay with it but the wording he chose got me even more angry.
“I apologize for having to re-accommodate these customers”. Really? Sounds like you are inconvenienced by this. Sounds much like “Ugh I am sooooo sorry I had to actually accommodate these whiny people.” Why are you sorry for accommodating? Think about those words Oscar. Accommodating is something you should do for a customer not apologize for.
Unbelievable and completely inexcusable!
Sayonara, UA!
Oscar Munoz, such a IMPOTENT man.
I don’t think Munoz’s apology sincere at all. this is a brutal incident to his clients because of his company’s mistake: overbooking. They should offer the doctor other airlines so that he can care for his patients, because the more money offering cannot compensate his care for his patients.
The simple solution of United driving their employees only 250 miles was all that was needed. Bullies!
United had no basis to remove the passenger. Munoz is citing United’s Contract of Carriage rule for involuntary denial of boarding (Rule 25). Unfortunately, they had already scanned the passengers ticket and allowed him on the aircraft, in other words, they boarded him and could no longer use the denial of boarding procedure.
United’s next option would have been Rule 21 in the Contract of Carriage, which lists the reasons for which a passenger may be removed from a flight, and none of the criteria apply.
If journalist’s asked the right questions, they would find he was indeed removed, not denied boarding. Simply asking if United re-scanned his ticket when he was taken off the plane to check for a Positive Bag match would confirm that he was removed, since when a passenger is removed from a flight, any checked bags must be removed too, as required by 49 USC 44901.
Let’s face it, there is a lack of competition on many flight routes. When United took over Continental there was such demoralization among the once-Continental employees they made no secret of their dissatisfaction with their new employer. Many confided to me that customer service was grossly subordinated to the drive for profit, not that profit is bad or wrong, just a purely myopic policy in play. Fortunately, Alaska has emerged as a human face to the mix and others will surely follow. Soon United will commence a public relations campaign, but with so many planes already outfitted with tighter seats with less leg room, and institutionalized charges for even carry-on bags, a sea change must occur or the public will complain of window dressing without substance.
Munoz needs to go back across the border to his peasant beginnings. How dare he defame this Dr. United and other US airline employees are abusing passengers. I have travelled over 2 million air miles and have never seen this behavior. Continentinal Airlines was so much better than United . We must change our our travel rules, these mediocrities in the airline system need to be subject to prosecution. This is outrageous!!!
United is a despicable airline. I have traveled over 2 million miles and have never seen this type of conduct by an airline. This Dr. Was well within his rights and was law abiding. We are not living in Russia/China. Airline employees condoning this behavior should be prosecuted and United’s CEO should resign for his lack of customer support, we pay extraordinary airfares to travel. We are not prisoners and slavery ended with the civil war. We pay for as service and are not subject to medieval cruelty in receipt of that service. United is despicable and the CEO should resign for his lack of basic service delivery knowledge.
Logged into my United account. Hit CONTACT US. I then asked United to donate all my miles to a charity as I will not be flying anymore.
(Full disclosure – I usually fly AA where I am Plat. If I do fly Star Alliance I usually will accrue Air Canada Aeroplan points as I go to Canada for business 2x a year. I only have 7700 United miles.)
Someone answer this for me – because I don’t understand.
If I wanted to buy a ticket on a United flight last-second (same-day), the ticket prices are atrociously high. Everyone gets that. There is supply and demand effects – and most likely, the closer to the time of departure that you buy, the higher the price of the ticket will be.
How is that any different from United suddenly wanting to buy a seat back from a customer who already paid for their seat? Just as above, there are supply and demand effects. In this situation, it’s exacerbated because not only is it close do departure, but hell – the people were SITTING IN THEIR SEATS! There will be a premium demanded (or a PITA factor) to get anyone to sell their seat and mess up their entire schedule from that point on.
What makes United think they can charge me an exorbitant amount in the scenario where it’s selling tickets at high prices for same-day flights, but then not comply the same rules when buying seats back from customers?
To put it another way, why should United be able to charge high prices on same day flights, then refuse to pay up for tickets/seats when they want to repurchase them back from customers for their own use. Seems like they want their cake and eat it too. I wish I could just refuse to pay the price for a same-day ticket, and then just use law enforcement to force my way onto the plane and into my seat.
If united does this to me , I shall burn the flight and the CEO for good . Fuck United . Go to hell
Would you want this CEO running your business and dealing with PR? He needs to go and not with a payoff, he’s reduced the value of the airline enough already, he should also be made to pay for that.
It is disgusting and to make way for staff too, you can’t tell me it was not known before that they needed these seats. I hope too they were working staff and not on staff travel!!
How does United not IMMEDIATELY offer passengers limousine rides to Louisville SDF PLUS the $800. That’s a 3 hour delay AT MOST. Are there no limousines at O’Hare?
I wish I could just refuse to pay the price for a same-day ticket, and then just use law enforcement to force my way onto the plane and into my seat.
…and have the right to get airport security to bloody up a few airline employees if they refuse to give me a regular priced ticket…
United CEO should be fired.
I think the problem has been resolved for future United flights that have not been booked yet. I do not think that United will have any double-booking issues in the future. In fact, they may have difficulty filling a full flight. They earned this and it wouldn’t surprise me if they lost the business in the next few years due to plummeting values. There are a lot of choices out there and United will not one of them for many unless they start offering $39 flights to Hawaii.
I can see where an employee(s) or agent(s) of the airline may act in a negative manner. This happens in every business. United’s response did not accept responsibility nor show any interest in the welfare of the man involved or that of the passengers who were subjected to this and delayed. The entire plane was an audience to this abuse and consequent stress and not just one man who was dragged off bleeding and humiliated. Yes, we know he hit himself. Did anyone offer comfort or assistance? Apparently not. Bad move, but no better moves following, which is why United has lost my support.
I wouldn’t inconvenience the passengers or forcibly remove them. Look what a shit storm it started! If limousines were to take someone to Louisville it should be the crew. Not paying passengers. Screw that. I will never again book a flight on United.
The UA violated the contractual law: the ticket is a contract between the airline and passengers and the passenger, once boarded and seated should be protected by the contract.
UA also violated the human right by having the officers using brutal and bloody violence to remove this elderly passenger.
UA also caused the apprenhension or psychological shock to the fellow passengers sitting in the same plane
UA selected three chinese passengers among total four to be removed, which is a sheer racial discrimination.
This incident is unprecedented and most notorious and showed the pattern of UA’s disgraceful history of treating its customers in the same way treating animals for the only purpose of profit making while forgetting the basics of running business, which is Customer is the king not animal
The CEO should be fired, the management should be reorganized, the officers commited the violence to a civilian should be removed, the victim passenger should be compensated with the amount fair to heal his wound physical and psychological!
So United’s union contracts make it prohibited for them to offer more than restricted-to-the-point-of-uselessness vouchers when they need volunteers to get bumped, and that justifies ‘re-accommodating’ their face? Cool story bro.
Someone knows where their bread is buttered.
horrible
The contractual issue between UA and passengers aside, I think that a charge of assault could and should be leveled against the officer that assaulted this gentleman and some sort of action against those police officers that allowed it to happen. Yes, the passenger was refusing to leave his seat, but his actions were righteous, those of the officers were not! In my opinion, the officer dragging the passenger out is nothing more than a bully abusing his authority. Fire and charge him!!!
United CEO is going to have to resign, there’s no recovering from him going back and sending a statement to his employees that they did the right thing…after he apologized for them doing the wrong thing. The covers are pulled, you’re exposed as the greedy snake that you are. Be a man, take your medicine and step down before you screw something else up. What an idiot.
This guy’s past does not matter, he was the victim. What next, will the accuse him of clubbing baby seals? United victimized him twice. 1. They bloodied his face 2. They slandered his character. This should never happen to anyone. The CEO should apologize. Is the CEO for United working for Delta to eliminate the competition? Then seeing how my comments disagreed with AOL’s news article and AOL censored them, is United paying some of these news services to attack the victim?
The reality is United chould have done a lot more, even with bad laws like the maximum payout in place, before resorting to force by proxy.
Your suggestion that the passages should eat the cost of their ticket and take uber is a dick suggestion.
But reimbursing them, giving them money and paying for a private car. That is a much better deal.
Also they did not utilize there own strenghs. If cash is not working try flights ( and not with a bunch of stupid restrictions) As I detailed in my blog I would be more tempted by free flights then by cash.
Did United try to be creative? No because that takes competency and sometimes more money. Just like having a cabin crew give fist aid to a bleeding passenger it’s just not worth it for United.
I feel the CEO should be fired, and fired today. Businesses need to understand that just about everyone is carrying with them a high definition camcorder called a cell phone. I am glad this was captured so the world could see just how these corporate thugs feels about thier customers. I personally will never fly United again and this image has forever been burned into my memory. Now the airlines are the terrorists we need to fear.
United: hey buy my stuff
Dao: yes I need your stuff to get to work.
United: hey give me your stuff back or else…
Dao: I paid for this already and I need to work.
United: ok you asked for it.
Officer dick: Hey give up that thing you bought or I will physically take it from you to give to that person over there.
Dao: I paid for it legally and I will not comply
Officer dick: lol your funeral. *suplex**drags Dao off plane*
United CEO: lul too bad we had to take the time to kick u bitches off the plane. Good job lackies, u did gud werk.
United guy: dude people are mad at you and stocks down 1 billion.
United CEO: I’m deeply sorry for this horrific incident, we will fix this.
Sorry this type of behavior by the so called face of the company is not ok. Munoz should be fired for sheer incompetence and ignorance. Just the lack of concern for an injured customer and actually condoning what happened only to offer a legit apology only after their stock prices were hit. Jeebus man there is stupid and then there is Munoz stupid.
United if you want to gain back customers you fire this scumbag of a man.
From what I understand, there are two important differences that should be noted:
Passengers interviewed from the flight say flight vouchers, not cash, were offered. This would explain why no one wanted $800. It was not $800 cash, just a voucher towards a future flight; and
Many passengers said hotel accommodations were not mentioned, meaning the airline lied. This is in addition to the ‘random computer selection’ lie, the ‘passenger was belligerent’ lie, and the ‘we offered nearly a thousand dollars’ lie.
Savage. But watch Munoz’ “compensation” continue to rise. Simply appalling. The US airline universe at its ugliest.
Will never fly United! Rather drive.