Here’s the story of a family that tried to fly Delta a week and a half ago but was kicked off an oversold flight because they wouldn’t give up a seat they paid for so that another passenger could sit in it. Delta instructed them to treat their youngest child as a lap infant not to have them sit in a seat.
Here is a video of Delta airlines booting myself, my wife and my 2 children ages 1 and 2 off delta flight 2222 April 23 from Maui to LAX.
They oversold the flight and asked us to give up a seat we purchased for my older son that my younger son was sitting in. You will hear them lie to me numerous times to get my son out of the seat.The end result was we were all kicked off the flight. They then filled our 4 seats with 4 customers that had tickets but no seats.
They oversold the flight. When will this all stop? It was midnight in Maui and we had to get a hotel and purchase new tickets the following day.
The flight was delayed by about an hour.
The problem for Delta is this sounds like a passenger being kicked off an oversold United flight. The problem for the family is that they were doing something squirrely under standard airline rules (although it’s something that people in general might reasonably think is ok).
The family originally intended to fly with the young child as a lap infant, but they sent their 18 year old son home on an earlier flight. That way, they thought, they could just use his seat for the baby.
They boarded the flight, and the four family members took the four seats they had reserved.
The airline, though, saw only three of them as boarded. The 18 year old was a no show for the flight. And they gave the seat to another passenger.
The father says that “Delta knew he was planning to use the seat for his younger son when they boarded their return flight.”
“You’re saying you’re gonna give that away to someone else when I paid for that seat?” Brian Schear says to an airline employee. “That’s not right.”
When the family refused to move, the airline threatened them with jail — and worse.
They tried to refuse and argued with airline staff, but say they were threatened with being sent to jail.
“You have to give up the seat or you’re going to jail, your wife is going to jail and they’ll take your kids from you,” Brian Schear recalled the airline staff telling him.
They didn’t want to go to jail, so they agreed to hold the young son on a lap for the flight. The airline still kicked them off, they booked themselves a hotel room and paid “$2,000 for another flight the next day, on United.”
The family recorded video of the incident.
The parents were 100% in the wrong here, no?
This is unreal! Worse than the infamous United scenario! Is this the America I grew up in ?! Delta’s conduct is more like that one would expect of a company in a banana republic! Why have we not heard of this till now ? Absolutely incredible!
I don’t really see where the family has a legitimate argument here.
Correct, the parents are wrong for a number of reasons in this case but I do just want to touch on the biggest. At what point did you plan on telling the airline what you were doing? I guess when the plane was already fully boarded…. So Delta not having any clue that YOU decided to book your son on an earlier flight on a separate ticket, figures he is still set to board that aircraft. So Delta going through its normal government regulated procedures see’s that your son is a no show and that you potentially unlawfully checked him in without him ACTUALLY being there. At what point did you plan on stating your intent to the airline. A single phone call advising thew airline of YOUR changes would have let you know this cannot be done.
There is a number of ways this can go in favor of the airline….. ignorance in simply not calling to airline and asking what can be done in these situations should have been done.
Morons
@WRIGH324 Mostly agree with you but I don’t think it is “unlawful” to check the son in for the flight.
Delta (and legacies) wants to target those who don’t travel that much (i.e. basic Y) but they don’t want to deal with the baggage that comes with pax that don’t travel that much?
The principle to check someone in while not there is done all the time and perfectly fine. Where the potential for it to become unlawful is when there intent is to do so fully knowing the individual is not getting on the aircraft yet you are stating they indeed are.
And if they were a bit more clever and scanned the boarding pass of the surreptitiously checked-in other son, gate agents wouldn’t have even perceived him as a no-show, the 2-year old could have occupied the seat as they’d planned, and the teenager would even have earned miles for it to boot…
@G-flyer Now that would have been a plan!
They were definitely in the wrong thinking they could use that extra seat for the infant. You present three boarding passes, you get three seats, not four, and the airline counts three passengers, not four. I assume they did not try to pass off the infant as the 18-year-old. Either they were naively not aware of this, or they were deliberately trying to get away with substituting one passenger for another. If you buy a lap infant seat, and insist on taking a seat assigned to another passenger you’re going to have a problem. To the airline’s systems it’s as though I bought seats for me and my wife, but my wife didn’t fly and yet I insisted the seat next to me be left empty because I paid for it. That doesn’t work.
I don’t know that Delta did the best job of handling the interaction, but this is very different from booting a person off the plane who actually was sitting in his assigned seat.
So much for taller and/or heavier passengers purchasing an adjoining seat to have more room and be more comfortable on a flight. The airlines seem to have the right to take the adjoining seat away without compensation to the purchasing passenger, as they see fit. Since when is purchasing an extra adjoining seat a sin against the airline, punishable by arrest and getting kicked off the plane? Airlines seem to be losing the thread between need for higher security and acting with excessive authoritarianism and abysmal customer service. Low cost doesn’t need to be no class operation.
@walter Comparing the situation you describe with the incident in the story is apples and oranges. When a passenger purchases two seats for himself, the airline won’t take one away because the passenger who purchased the ticket is on board and flying. In the article, the purchasing passenger didn’t show for the flight. To Delta, it makes no difference as whether he was flying with other family members who did board the flight or flying by himself. The passenger was a no-show and the seat was then filled by the airline. It happens multiple times every day.
Yes that sucks, but listen to the FA’s and none of this would have happened.
Incorrect, they do a final seat and passenger count verification. You wouldn’t be able to check your kid in scan his pass and use the extra seat, they will know.
As far as the question: When will egregious wrongful mistreatment of passengers stop? The answer is: When airlines are held liable for compensatory and, most importantly, punitive damages for this behavior.
@John How was this family mistreated?
@G-flier – that was my first thought as well! Certainly what I would’ve done.
Delta handled it very poorly. Here again, we have airline personnel that can’t do anything besides threaten passengers with calling the cops. If airline personnel have to resort to threats and intimidation in order to handle things, then they have a real problem.
Since theybknew their son wasn’t going to be flying on that day, they should have notified Delta that their other child was going to be using the seat purchased for the other son who took an earlierflight. Delta had no way of knowing that seat was going tube occupied by their baby. Delta should have handled this in an way without threatening the family.
Hmmmmmmm…
If I were overweight and bought two seats for my comfort (but was not at the level of weight to “have to”) are they gonna tell me to give the seat away to someone else?
@SavyTraveler The FA’s don’t go through with a manifest listing passenger info. All they know is that a pass was scanned for that seat and there is a passenger in it. Now they could conceivably be caught as lap kids need to be declared at ticket purchase and the FA’s might notice that there should be lap child in that row and there is none.
@Alex Please see my answer above. Comparing apples and oranges.
@Ann Cotter The family could not just call Delta and tell them. The ticket was not in the child’s name and Delta would not allow the child to use the ticket in someone else’s name. That is why tickets are attached to a name.
If I pay for a seat That seat should be mine during the flight whether it is occupied or not. Delta owes this family at least the price of a ticket.
Anyone think of this as a security issue? All passengers , including infants MUST have a boarding pass. To purchase a ticket for the son to fly on an earlier flight and not inform the airline of the change and thinking that it’s okay to use that seat for the infant- it doesn’t work like that. Maybe if the family had contacted the airline to handle this BEFORE they got on the flight , this situation would not have happened.
@Ronnie The seat does not belong to the family. It belongs to the son and he was a no show. Therefore, Delta placed another passenger in the seat. Simple.
@TNT Security issue? Please explain that one.
Airline travel has a very weird flexibility of allowing no shows and refunds.
It would make life much less complicated if airline tickets were sold as non-refundable but also allow people to buy as many seats as they want.
There would not be all this focus on overbooking to make seats don’t go empty. As in this scenario the seat is paid for whether it goes out empty or not.
The one problem is terrorism. Where people check in a bomb and don’t board. It makes it a little more difficult to verify that the number of passengers checked in match those boarded if people are allowed to buy and checkin for multiple flights. The best way to deal with this is have better luggage scanners to detect the bombs. After all making sure that passengers and luggage fly together doesn’t rule out terrorism completely since some terrorists are willing to be suicide bombers.
Airlines like Air New Zealand which allow you to buy an entire row of seats in economy are already doing this so its not impossible
If I bought the seat, I can fill it with my hat if I want. The problem, plain and simple, is for the airlines to STOP OVERBOOKING FLIGHTS!!!!!
So most people are saying, it was ok for Delta to overbook the flight?
Power hungry much lol never fails delta sucks. Sr. We are taking your money and get off are flight.
@Frank What does overbooking have to do with this story?
So, if the older child had flown with his ticket, the family would have flown illegally with a two year old on a parent’s lap? Am I missing something? I’m sure they were advised of lap children policy/laws if asked. Any thoughts?
According to this father’s logic, I should be able to give my unused seat to someone else. Why should it matter if I’m traveling or not or whether the substitute traveler is a relative or not?
@ John P. Sperstad That is correct: if you bought the seat, you can do with it as you please. The issue here is that the passenger that bought the seat didn’t show for the flight.
@Jon I am sure the child was already scheduled to fly as a lap child; otherwise the child would have already had a seat assignment and there would have been no story.
I do agree with the thoughts expressed in your second paragraph.
I really don’t understand what everyone is so upset about and I myself am a mom of young children. Sounds like this family paid for a ticket for their 18 year old the previous day and assumed his now-extra ticket the next day could just be claimed by their infant son. Why anyone would think that when a name is printed right in the ticket is beyond me.
For those who think they should have scanned the boarding pass at the gate and pretended their infant was their 18 year old, I don’t think Delta would have scanned the pass if it didn’t have the TSA signoff on the front, which wouldn’t have happened as the right passenger was not present (your bday is on the ticket).
Now if they had paid for a seat for their infant (like I did when I flew LAX to Maui) and that seat was taken, it would be a different story and I would understand the anger.
Family was wrong 100%.
@Tom – my point is that the child, at least according to the info in Gary’s blog post was 2 (not under 2).
Gary – why the misleading title and first paragraph? Strikes me as a yahoo headline not a headline/title (and first paragraph) from someone who understands better. This method of only explaining the real situation later and implying something else earlier is disingenuous and a disservice to your readers.
Selling something you do not own is a crime for the common citizen. Overbooking is selling something the airlines do not own ( non existing seats). Southwest airlines has stopped the practice.
I think the problem here is a lack of empathy on both sides, though I fault the airline staff more. For instance, if you know nothing about airline regulations, the family’s story makes perfect sense: we paid for the seat, we have a family member here who needs the seat, how dare the airline take that seat from us without a refund *and sell it to someone else? If I had ordered doughnuts from the doughnut shop and paid in advance, should it really matter if it was me, my husband or my best friend who goes to pick them up? If I send my husband to pick them up does the doughnut shop have the right to say, “No! Your name is not the name on this order,” take the box away from him after he’s already holding it, sell the box to someone else and then refuse to refund me? That’s just silly! Same with the seat: common sense says they paid for it, it’s theirs.
Of course, the airline crew has lots of rules and regulations that say the opposite. Those rules, as many people have explained, say that the family screwed up and deserves nothing. So the family was wrong.
Here’s why I blame the crew more than the family in this case, though. While the family of newbies may not know the airline rules, the crew certainly knows *both the airline rules *and should have enough common sense to see things through the family’s eyes. Instead of showing compassion and understanding, they acted like bureaucratic jailers in a prisoner/guard situation. It’s the old “I have power over you” trope playing out yet again with threats of cops. Airline staff should not act like prison guards with unruly inmates.
Airlines are primarily a service industry. Even if the customer is wrong, it is often worth the extra time/expense to make them feel valued and to give them a win situation. Especially in this social-media connected world, is it really worth it *not to try and understand things from the customer’s perspective?
FAA rules state a 2 year old should be in a car seat on a flight as it is safest for the child. It does not as attendant claimed prohibit it.
Wow, the family in this case – unbelievable. Crying wolf in a situation where they were wrong to take advantage of bad press at a time when people are hypersensitive to being booted off a flight. Absolute shame.
I don’t understand how airlines can get away with taking people’s money for a service and then don’t have the obligation to provide for that service. I am paying for a seat, a specific space on their aircraft. If I choose to use it for my hat, dog or child it is mine I paid for that space. If the parent called and said I would like to change the flight for my older son he would of been hit with $200 changing ticket fee plus additional cost of the difference in fare, then he would be charged a new ticket to buy the seat (space) “he already paid for” again for the younger son. It seems the airlines get every advantage but the flying public just has to pay it or shut up. Remember Airlines pay big bucks to lobby Congress for rules to protect their interest, not the consumer.
if they don’t compensate that family accordingly and fire the staff that did this to them, I will not be flying delta after this. small threat considering i only fly 6-7 times a year….but it’s the principle, if we all stood up like that they would quit treating people this way or go out of business.
Parents are wrong, the seat is owned by the passenger not who purchased the ticket. However, it is my understanding that children under 2 can fly in their own seat in a car seat. I have never heard that they cannot.
@gary come on, the headline is straight wrong – the 2 yo didn’t have a seat to give up! Why they didn’t check in the 18 yo and scan the boarding passes – makes no sense to me (uh, no-show -> reservation *poof*).
I mean, imagine a world where you can just give someone else your ticket. Oh wait, you can’t! Doesn’t matter if it is your wife or brother or child – PNR has “N” in it for NAME.
As the kids say, SMDH.
The issue is that ONLY 3 boarding passes were scanned. The airline saw that number 3 and realized there would be 1 empty seat because the 4th boarding pass was never scanned. Therefore they sold the unused seat to a standby passenger only to find a car seat in the unscanned seat.
When you purchase a ticket you must enter the name etc of the person who will be occupying that seat. If that passenger assignment changes, you need to contact the airline and you can (in most cases) change the passenger seat assignment for a fee.
If you want to purchase a seat in order to keep it empty you need to specify , at the time of booking, your name for both seats and indicate that you want both seats for yourself .
The bit about not being able to purchase a seat for a child under 2 in a car seat sounded a bit off the cuff, not sure if that’s a lie or not.
@Kim do you oppose fractional reserve banking as well? When you deposit money at the bank, it’s your money, but the bank only keeps a portion of it on hand and loans some of it out to other customers.
Minors never have ids checked…why not just use the boarding pass? It would seem the family was trying to get a free seat and somehow get that seat refunded. The family was definitely trying to get away with something.
And a red-eye is the last flight I’d ever want a lap child…
Thank you for the question. I have no issue with my deposit being used by the bank as a loan. In fact I prefer the bank use my money instead of a promissory note issued by the Fed that was not in circulation. We will not get into a discussion about money at this time.
My money exists and I have not deposited more than my account states.
Well I think there should be some flexibility in this situation, if the parents could have legally switch the name on the ticket legally say 24 hours of the flight there would not have been a problem. Once the ticket is paid for why not have a legal method of being able to switch the name within a set amount of time, this would allow the airlines and TSA to run the name on the no fly list.
Now if the FA actually told the family they are fly with the child on the lap by law that is incorrect you are not required to do so by law. If they are 2 or older you are required to get them a seat and pay for it. If they are 2 yrs old or younger you may hold them or purchase a ticket and use a car seat.
Now there are also provision by law where child about which seats they can or cannot sit in, read more here on Southwest website https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/family/baby-on-board-pol.html?clk=GFOOTER-CUSTOMER-INFANT
heres Delta webpage on this http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/special-travel-needs/children.html
But since they the 18 yr old was a no show then Delta had no way of knowing their intent and they are in the wrong here. They should be penalized for cost of holding up the flight.
Why can’t they simply switch the name of the ticket? Like on a train, bus, ticket for the baseball game, a reservation to a restaurant, a reservation for a hotel room, etc.
What’s squirrelly is the airline’s refusal to let a paid seat occupied by another family member. That should be outlawed.
What a terrible state of affairs do we find with airlines. Unbelievable. Thanks Washington.
Great take, AannaT. It seems like in all of these situations blame can be assigned to both sides, but as the party providing the service and with more knowledge of the rules and regulations, the airlines need to be willing to show more understanding and compassion.
What I don’t get is why the family was not helped by Delta after being kicked off. Were they just given a refund and told to get out? It seems like Delta sill had an obligation to get them to their destination, even if it was on a later flight.
Delta airline needs to be shut down worst aieine in history!!!!
The family was completely in the wrong and Delta did the right thing. This one is pretty straight forward.
Again both sides wrong in a situation. The parents are wrong. You don’t just get to plug whomever you want into a seat because you bought a ticket. They had to give that seat up. Now the family may be lying about what happened, but assuming they told the truth for a minute people at the airline need to be fired. Threatening arrest i get but threatening to take their children? No. Cops intimidate people all the time with this threat and it’s disgusting. Also the family claimed they put the child in their lap and yet they were still kicked off? If true people need to be fired. I take what the family sayscwith a grain of salt though.
As usual there’s more to the initial story. Why? In the wake of United’s story the media loves to dig everywhere for anything to add to the fire. They call web trolling “journalism.” This family could have coordinated with the airline and maybe it would have turned out alot better. Flight staff personnew surely do need some sensitivity training!
The family doesn’t have a leg to stand on. Nobody boarded the plane with a boarding pass for that seat so technically it becomes a no show passenger. Delta had every right to put a stand by passenger in the seat. In my opinion what Delta should have done is offer to reimburse them for the seat taking off the table the argument that they paid for the seat and therefore are entitled to it. A passenger can’t just arbitrarily change seat assignments and the name of the person occupying a seat. It’s unfortunate for the family but they originally had planned on holding the child during the flight when they booked their tickets so it shouldn’t have come as a big surprise for them.
Please stop calling it the family’s seat. It is not and never was. The seat was booked to the 18 year old who was a no show. Chances are the person who was supposed to go in to that seat was already on board because the airline has that seat as a no show. I guess that paying customer should be kicked off the flight in favor of the two year old then? I don’t like the way delta handled this but they were right about that seat not belonging to the family.
good to see the passenger kept his cool and not make a real incident out of it.
Delta had a right to the one seat for the no-show 18-year-old. They could have made that argument to the father, but it is not evident during the video. It sure looks like they let the family, car seat and all, on to the plane.
At the end, dad offers to follow Delta’s original instructions and hold the baby. At this point Delta kicks the whole family off, blaming them for the delay. This is absurd. They’ve penalized this family for questioning Delta’s policy, which took all of 8 minutes on the video. Once again, cold-hearted robots seem to be in charge.
This Delta crew was willing to take a stand, with the whole country watching via video, to kick off the family that, after 8 minutes of arguing, agreed to hold the baby and give up the no-show seat. Incredible!!
So hard to get the facts straight on this story. Did they purchase 3 seats or 4? Was there an 18 year old that took and earlier flight? If that’s the case he’s a no show and the airline has the right to fill that seat irregardless of whether it was paid for. But it’s unclear did they have two children flying with them? The 18 month old had a seat in his name I am assuming. So that would have be the 3 seats and the 1 year old infant would have to sit on one of the parents’ laps.
I side with the airline on this one.
@jake uh, because security of course! You can’t change a ticket name because 9/11, and also because of money. I’ll let you decide the real reason – but either way, you absolutely cannot change a ticket from one child to another.
I have no idea why they didn’t just check the son in. To me, they’re idiots – sure Delta could have been nicer, but the seat was gone, the other passengers on board, that’s that. I think most adults understand you can’t change the name on a ticket – this is not some secret contract of carriage rule. And most adults know if you don’t check in and board, they give your seat away.
Let me see if I got this correct – they purchased a ticket for their 18-year old son that he used to board an earlier flight? Then they wanted to use his “seat” again to board their baby? Is that right? Or did they buy another ticket for their 18-year-old son and should have transferred their original seat ticket for their baby? Sounds like the airline was technically correct, though their PR was not the best. Sounds like the parents were trying to fly two people on one ticket.
@Sheila – “The 18 month old had a seat in his name I am assuming.”
I don’t know where in the world you got that out of the story, because there is no evidence that the family had a ticket for this child. In fact, common sense would dictate that none of this would have happened if this child did, indeed, have a ticket, because there would have been no need to use a seat for a passenger who was not on the flight for one who would be on the flight in the first place.
IF an agent actually told a family with small children they were going to jail if they didn’t comply with an airline policy – once again using the power of the state and jail to enforce corporate policy when a customer had already spent thousands of dollars on tickets! – then this needs to be exposed widely as the issue, then employee doing this needs to be warned or fired, and the company needs to make it clear as Untied did that they will not be further using police powers to enforce company policies which is the hallmark of a facist state.
I flew Delta for 40 years until they devalued the mile having the gall to think they could redefine the meaning of a mile and still call it a mile. When I complained to customer service about this proposed new policy,, they told me that if I didn’t like it I could fly someone else so I would walk before I’d fly them anywhere. You don’t talk to customers like this. You need to get it through your fat heads that you serve us, and not vice versa. We are the boss, not you little imperious dictators who are one passenger video away from being unable to show your face ever again in public!
@AannaT – your donut shop may let anyone pick up an order, but many businesses require an ID to pick up an order that was pre-paid via an online channel. Heck, I need an ID to pick up my office’s lunch order. Businesses do this all the time. Delta may have asked to see the ID for 18 year old “Mason”, and realized the seat was occupied by infant “Grayson”. Parents may have planned to file for a refund of “Mason’s” ticket (or used it to fund his earlier flight) in addition to having “Grayson” utilize the seat. In any case, switching names on tickets isn’t permitted and certainly shouldn’t be managed/ requested after boarding.
@Bill – “Threatening arrest i get but threatening to take their children? No. Cops intimidate people all the time with this threat and it’s disgusting.” If both parents are arrested, what do you expect the cops to do with the two minor children? Child Protective Services will be called, and the children held at least until the parents are released from jail. Possibly longer so an investigation can be conducted. Cops were stating facts. If you felt intimidated, then don’t try to use your kids as a shield to resist arrest.
So, reading all the posts about this issue…I am appalled at the those who are so indignant that the airline took a stand and rightfully so. This family, to me, did not appear to be neophytes. They appeared to know EXACTLY what they were doing. To avoid all of this, all they needed to do was call Delta, tell them that their son flew out on an earlier flight and they would like to use that ticket now for their youngest child, what is the surcharge. End of story. But no, they wanted to scam the airline. A no-show passenger is an empty seat. You give up the right to that seat if you are not there to board. You cannot stake claim for a seat that clearly has someone else’s name assigned to it, regardless of who paid for it. Like another poster commented, this was to take advantage of an already fragile time where airlines and passengers are both on the offensive. If Delta would like to take advantage here of compensating this family for that seat, that would go a long way in their public relations. But this family is wrong.
Couldn’t there be a way to figure out the seating confusion before everyone was seated? The airline should have mechanisms in place to avoid a scene while on the plane. Embarrassing for both sides. Family should not have been kicked off after deciding to comply.
They bought 3 tickets. The 18 year old son used one ticket on an earlier flight departing earlier, on the parents flight they now have exactly 2 seats, they were trying to hog 3 seats. They cannot complain, they paid for 3 seats and they got 3 eats. The 18 year old son used one seat and the parents used 2 seats so that is 3 seats. If they wanted the baby to have a seat then they should have paid for 4 seats.
If you ever want to know how the orange clown in a fatsuit could cancel elections and take over – which is the only way he’d ever get anything done anyway – just read the comments of the authoritarian bootlickers who the most hated man on the planet would rely on to act as his jackboot enforcers. Don’t doubt the corporations or you should be arrested and your kids taken away! Don’t stay up all night printing a protest sign and show up on your own campus to protest the pussy grabber or five fat rednecks will shove you between them for all the world to see the blubbering lard that has taken over the American brain.
NO! The American way is to question authority, not go along like some IBM programmed lemming. And if you haven’t learned this by now, the entire force of the generations under 30 who live under modernity and not dictatorship of the corporation will gladly set your country right….soon!
Airlines should just say plainly it’s their plane and the “customer” has NO rights. End of discussion!
The way I understand it is that purchased *5* seats. The initially purchased 4 seats on a flight for their 18-year-old, their 2-year-old and for the mom and dad. The 1-year-old was going to sit on one of the parent’s laps.
But then the 18-year-old decided to take an earlier flight and they purchased a 5th ticket for him, thinking they could use his extra ticket on the later flight for their 1-year-old. But since the 18-year-old never checked in for that later flight, they gave that seat away, and even though the family purchased 5 tickets, they only could use 4 of them (3 on the 2nd flight).
I generaly side with the airline here as seats are not transferable.
There’s a video on YouTube if you’re in doubt of what the family had to say. The airline was in the right this time BUT the crap they told these parents and the lies and how they treated them is very wrong. The dad wasn’t even aggressive or disrespectful. The airline stuff are scum for threatening to take the babies away and other nonsense.
You don’t pay for a seat, you pay for a reservation and the seat is assigned to you. The 18 year old child changed the reservation to another flight. Thereby, his original seat was no longer his and can be released to another .. passenger. That’s all, folks!
Both sides had some wrong. The family was officially breaking the rules…if the seat were bought for someone else, nowadays, that’s it. If that same exact person isn’t in the seat, you have to buy the refundable fare to get a refund, otherwise, you are out of luck. But…I can see how they feel like they bought the seat and should be able to still retain it.
Airlines have gotten more creative and aggressive with the “gotcha’s” and they are making record profits because of it.
I flew many flights within Europe this past summer and was amazed that no one ever check my I.D. I was able to get my boarding pass from agents at the check in counter without showing an I.D. I went through security at least 8 times — no I.D. check. All they care about is that I did not have any dangerous stuff in the bags I was bringing onboard. They did not give a damn if the name on the ticket I purchased online matched my I.D. The U.S. airlines were given a great gift after 9-11 when the government started checking I.D.s against the name on the ticket. Now people cannot sell tickets they purchased that they are not going to use — like they used to pre-9-11, and the airlines LOVE this, as DL did, because when the ticket is a no show, they sell the seat again, or they force the original owner to pay a huge change fee to change the flight instead of selling the ticket online. Ask yourself, how is it that in Europe they don’t check I.D. against an airline ticket for intra-Europe flights, and their rate of terrorists onboard is about the same as ours — i.e. great. FYI, the airlines I flew that did not check I.D.’s were Lufthansa, SAS, Windmere, and the airports were Barcelona, Frankfort, Oslo, Bodo, and Leknes.
@Segments — Picking up the donuts was not the best metaphor, but I realized that after I hit send ; ) First off, I don’t claim that the family was right — I know that they were not, no matter which version of events one believes. I was just trying to get into the mind of a consumer who has purchased something and then feels that they have a right to use it as they see fit.
Perhaps a better example would have been that the dad bought the donuts and felt anyone in his family should reasonably be allowed to eat those donuts. Again, not saying he was right, but, to someone not familiar with airline regulations, it is not unreasonable.
Heck, if the flight attendant said that children under 2 were not allowed to sit in car seats but *had* to be lap children, it seems like even the airline personnel can’t keep the rules straight.
If Greyhound Bus Lines sells tickets and their system knows when not to sell more tickets because the bus is filled capacity why cant the airlines do the same? Is it plain out greed? This will end this saga .
I think Delta screwed up royally here particularly if they were aware that the two year old was replacing the 18 year old on the flight. My understanding is they purchased 5 tickets and Delta agents were clued in. My guess is Delta will be refunding the airfare and hotel night.
I agree, parents were in the wrong to just think that they could transfer the seat from the 18 year old to the baby. If they spoke with delta and told them the plan when they purchased the separate ticket for the 18 year old, why didn’t they then ask if the name could be changed to the baby?
Delta was in the wrong for yet again over selling a flight
Delta also screwed up by threatening to take the kids away???
And if you saw the video, Jenna at Delta was a complete sorry to say, ignorant airline rep by saying FAA stated that children under two need to be on laps and aren’t allowed to have a seat with a child restraint. She said she would print it out in black and white to show FAA regulations: yet when she returned, it seemed like an ultimatum, get off or we’ll hold the plane and have everyone pissed at you for not being able to get to their destination. That’s what’s appalling to me. So Jenna was wrong but didn’t want to admit it. Shame in you Delta for hiring personnel who do fail to know FAA regulations and recommendations and not properly cite the non transferable ticket situation.
I call bullshit on the flight attendants. The only one breaking the rules was Delta Airlines. Here are the FAA safety guidelines I got off the FAA website. “Did you know that the safest place for your child on an airplane is in a government-approved child safety restraint system (CRS) or device, not on your lap? Your arms aren’t capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS or device for the duration of your flight. It’s the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination. The FAA is giving you the information you need to make informed decisions about your family’s travel plans.” Delta lied through their teeth. If there were an accident they would also be short one oxygen mask and flotation device, because your seat acts as a flotation device. The airlines are just out of control.
Delta realizes their people acted badly in Hawaii and have issued an apology. Maybe legally the family was wrong, but the way Delta treated them was wrong too.
Here is the apology:
Delta Air Lines issued the following statement today regarding Flight 2222 on April 23:
“We are sorry for the unfortunate experience our customers had with Delta, and we’ve reached out to them to refund their travel and provide additional compensation. Delta’s goal is to always work with customers in an attempt to find solutions to their travel issues. That did not happen in this case and we apologize.” – News.Delta.com
@Cacinda Maloney Delta did the right thing? Are you kidding me? They threatened to arrest them and take their frickin children. Then it looks like the FA attendant flat out lied about FAA policy. On top of that he calmly offers to hold the child in his lap and the Delta staff decided that wasn’t good enough and that the whole family with an infant and two year old needs to be kicked off of the plane with no place to stay or way travel forward? I get that the guy was in the wrong, because he didn’t understand how the ticket booking works, although its understandable that he would be confused by that. Still kicking them off the plane after he agreed to cooperate? You are out of your frickin mind if you think that is reasonable.
Greg, you should see someone about that problem.
If not for two previous incidents, this would be less of a big deal.
But, in light of the two recent UAL and AA problems, what was Delta FA thinking? Did they think they will get a promotion for making news?
Wouldn’t they have been better off if they had told the stand-by passenger, “We made a mistake. We had a misunderstanding due to a child that qualified as a passenger but was not counted as one. Since it was our mistake, we have arranged for you fly on QRS airlines to arrive at approximately the same time/location as this flight. Here is your boarding pass.”
Right or wrong, I didn’t choose Delta to witness a fight. In fact, I don’t want any drama… none… zero… just a plain uneventful flight. I am not impressed about how quickly you can push back from the gate, or how everyone can remain seated and not use the restroom while you wait to take off, etc.
I don’t want to return to the gate to discard a passenger if they use the restroom while on the taxiway…for 30 minutes. That is between DAL, the FAA, and the disobedient passenger. NOT MY PROBLEM. I do want to return if a passenger or crew member has to get off the plane, for whatever reason, before you take off. That’s right Delta, if a crew member has to deplane, I expect you to return to gate and let them deplane. Returning to the gate is not high drama for a voluntary reason. No big deal. People land all the time and complain about being delayed by the airline. And nobody cares. NOBODY Cares.
And, no DAL, passengers don’t care about your apology, don’t care about your need to sell every seat, don’t care about your ability to enforce authority when it is not needed, etc. We really don’t care DAL, just like you really don’t care. That’s right DAL, we care about you as much as you care about us. Just fly us from point A to B, and don’t make it miserable by dragging, booting, kicking, passengers, or family’s off the plane. When you do, plan on getting a replacement crew for the sake of the passengers. And plan on allowing passengers to deplane and choose another flight. And, who knows, maybe you’ll figure out how to sell those seats also.
The more I learn about this incident the more culpability I assign to Delta. The flight attendants clearly lied to the passenger at the expense of the 1 year old child’s safety. They know the FAA guidelines yet they still lied to the parents. Airlines should start being fined $100,000 for every overbooked flight and I guarantee you they’ll stop this disgusting practice. It’s made even worse with their policy of not assigning seats to some coach passengers. Almost all seats these days in coach are non-refundable so the argument that Delta would lose revenue from a cancelled reservation is just BS and why should they get paid twice for the same seat unless they refund the original ticket holder their money? I assure you that any member of congress that is willing to vote to have 20+ million people lose health care could care less about consumers against big airlines who pay them off with big campaign donations. Delta gives millions in donations to members of congress.
People feel so entitled these days. All Delta wanted the family to do is follow the rules they agreed to when purchasing the tickets. Delta does not owe them anything as it’s a federal law to follow flight crew instructions.
@BigJim, it is NOT federal law that you have to follow flight crew instructions. It is federal law that if you “interfere with the performance of the duties” of the flight crew member, it’s a crime. It’s a common misconception.
As my friend Dan Grossman, a Constitutional attorney explained:
“CNN just published the following quotation from a “expert” in aviation law: “If you refuse to follow a crew member’s instructions, they can throw you off and send you to jail.”
That is simply not the law.
The federal criminal statute applicable to “passenger misbehavior” is 49 U.S. Code § 46504, which makes it a crime to “interfere with the performance of the duties” of a crew member or flight attendant by “assaulting or intimidating a flight crew member or flight attendant of the aircraft.”
Contrary to a common misconception, this statute does not create a general obligation to obey any instruction that a crew member might chose to give. Without assault or intimidation of the crew member, there is no crime under this statute.
It is true that a substantial civil penalty (i.e., a monetary fine) can be imposed under Part 121 of Code of Federal Regulations (which regulates airline travel) on a passenger who fails to comply with instructions about smoking and seat belts (14 CFR 121.317) or who “interferes with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft” (14 CFR 121.580), but even these regulations do not create a general obligation to obey ANYTHING a crew member might tell you to do, nor does a violation allow a passenger to be “sent to jail” as the CNN commentator claims.
Under the regulations in Part 121, a passenger is only obligated to comply with instructions that are (A) lawful, (B) in “the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft,” and (C) where failure to comply would “interfere” with the crewmember’s duties. For example, a flight attendant could lawfully instruct a passenger to turn off his cell phone, or raise his tray table during takeoff or landing (which could block egress in an emergency), and a passenger who refuses to comply could be assessed a very large fine. But if a flight attendant instructs a passenger to hop on one foot and sing happy birthday, refusal to obey would not subject the passenger to a penalty under Part 121 because such an order would not be related to “the performance of the crewmember’s duties aboard an aircraft.” And needless to say, if a flight attendant instructed a passenger to provide sexual favors in the lavatory, the passenger could equally refuse without penalty. (I am not suggesting the second situation would ever take place, merely emphasizing that there is no legal obligation to “do anything a flight attendant tells you.”)
Let me be clear that I am not making a comment about the specifics of the United Airlines situation; there are many issues to consider in deciding if the gate agents, flight crew members, and/or police officers acted lawfully and I am not taking a position on that issue in this post.
Nor am I suggesting that people should casually disregard flight attendant instructions, mainly because those instructions could well have a legitimate safety purpose of which the passenger is unaware, but also because some flight attendants in the past have wrongly accused passengers of “assaulting or interfering” and so, in the practical world, you COULD be dragged off to jail, and a unlawful arrest is no more pleasant than a lawful one.”
Well whether the seat was for the other son or not, they were trying to comply. They did buy the seat, the cops and the flight attendant were rude and ignorant. I called corporate and made a verbal complaint. Will not fly Delta, and made sure i said this. Good way to lose respect and business. Best regards to the family and I hope they know they have support. Sometime it is best to from and beat but this video will make sure their story is heard clearly. DELTA is a joke!!!
-Typo-
Sometimes it is best to grin and bear it, but this video will make sure their story is heard clearly. DELTA airlines is a joke!!!
To get onto the plane, they have to check the ticket and passenger name.
Apparently they did that for the toddler, and saw and allowed the car seat, or the family wouldn’t have been able to enter.
We could think the family lied about the kids’ name, saying his name was his older brothers’.
But the family said they spoke with adepts about the switch, and Delta let them on like this.
If that’s true, this is Delta’s fault. And if you watch the video, the Delta employee lied to them about not being allowed to use the car seat. She was utterly ignorantly arrogantly ridiculous.
How’d the toddler get on the plane if he doesn’t have a ticket?
Children under two don’t need a ticket.
Have they said that the child in question is under 2? Other websites have reported that it was a 2 year old- which would mean he would have needed his own ticket.
It’s obvious by the blatant lies spewed by the flight attendant that Delta could care less about the safety of the 1 year old child. Telling the parents it’s illegal to use a car seat is just a total lie. Also telling the parents that they would throw the 2 young children into foster care is beyond outrageous.
Delta has already paid these folks and apologized so they obviously realize they acted improperly and were completely wrong about how this was handled by their crew and staff. It’s time to pass a law stopping this disgusting procedure of overbooking flights.
Still leading the news and just breaking on many mainstream media so the damage is not yet contained. Not yet $1b damage but already in the several hundred million dollars worth of self-inflicted damage range. The two recent Delta fuehrers (spelling intended) take a major chip out of their reputation as running better than most airlines. These incidents do not happen on Southwest, Alaska or Virgin for a reason. It’s a culture of authoritarian dictatorship that doesn’t fly in this country, as the fat freak Kremlin puppet is finding out no matter how his fat redneck supporters try to prop him up with their gaseous lard.
The child was 2 years old. Delta knew the 2 year old should have had his own ticket but out of greed figured no one know so they tried to sell the seat for the second time subjecting the child to traveling in an unsafe manner. Classless.
The way I understood it was that they purchased three tickets for this flight. Then the 18 year old purchased another ticket on another flight. So they still had the three seats on this flight. The problem is that they went through the ticket booth and only verified two of the seats. The airline thought the other was available. Thus they gave it to someone waiting. They should have let the airline know they were still using that seat by checking in. If they did that then the airline was in the wrong.
One airline employee tells Brian that, under regulations set down by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Grayson can’t sit in the seat because of his young age. The employee claims that two-year-old children are not supposed to have their own seats and must sit in their parents’ laps for the duration of the flight.
The employee’s claim is directly contradicted by guidelines on both the FAA and Delta websites.
“The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) strongly urges you to secure your child in a CRS (child safety restraint system) or device for the duration of your flight. It’s the smart and right thing to do so that everyone in your family arrives safely at your destination,” the FAA says.
The agency describes a CRS as “a hard-backed child safety seat that is approved by the government for use in both motor vehicles and aircraft.”
Meanwhile, Delta’s guidelines state: “For kids under the age of two, we recommend you purchase a seat on the aircraft and use an approved child safety seat.”
Brian is 100% correct. If they told an agent they were using the 18 years olds ticket for the small child there should be no issue here and Delta would be 100% wrong. I think the problem is Delta as usual overbooked the flight and since it was a red eye long haul flight they were scrambling not to look bad to angry customers in the boarding area who were probably demanding a seat on the plane. If they hadn’t overbooked this wouldn’t have been an issue. STOP over booking now!!!! This should be 100 illegal. In the old days these seats were not non refundable but now they are completely non refundable so Delta has no business selling a seat twice.
Cacinda Maloney says: something utterly inane
They paid for the seat for one of their kids, they put one of their kids on the seat.
Game over, ti’s theirs. Only Delta is in the wrong on this one
I take it back: the family did one thing wrong: they should have checked all four seats in, and told the airline the infant was the person named for the 4th seat.
Not allowed to demand photo ID for an infant, so no muss, no fuss.
Four seat reservations were purchased by this family for the parents, the 18 yr. old and the 2 year old. The family decided that it would be easier to have both of their young children occupy their own seats utilizing car seats following Delta and FFA guidelines; therefore, they purchased an additional ticket for their 18 year old son on an earlier flight because there were no available seats on the original flight to purchase. When purchasing the additional ticket, Delta personnel failed to provide the necessary service of changing the name on the original ticket from the 18 year old’s name to the youngest child’s name advising the father there would be no problem utilizing the seat that had originally been intended for the 18 yr. old. Had Delta not over sold the flight, this story would not exist because there would be no need to seat a standby passenger. This was clearly Delta’s first of many failures in regard to this incident. I question the comments stating that the name on a ticket cannot be changed as that is simply incorrect. If that were true then all stand-by passengers would fly under the names of the original passengers that for one reason or another did not use their purchased tickets. Delta’s next failure occurred when they did not catch the mistake of the earlier representative who chose not to properly reticket the seat when selling the additional seat on the earlier flight. The action of the Flight Attendant is not just yet another Delta failure but it is a disgrace as well.
I do not understand how anybody would not find serious fault with Delta when Delta themselves admitted they were wrong in the handling and attempted to compensate the family.
If I am understanding this right. The family knew this was a fully booked flight. But they tried to work around the system to have the extra comfort of a seat for their lap child on that flight and doing this at the expense of some poor traveler who won’t be able to go on the flight at all.
I just don’t understand all this group think that the big corporations are wrong. There is always this sense of victim hood. Nobody cares about the victims of this other traveler who wouldn’t be able to go because this family tried to pull this shenanigans simply for their own comfort. Nobody thinks of the victim of the rest of us because we will all need to pay higher prices if as Mark says “stop overbooking now!”. Maybe Mark is rich and can pay the $Millions of dollars extra all of the rest of us will need to pay because they can’t overbook.
Nobody cares about the victims of entire planes not being able to fly because the airlines will no longer boot a passenger or two so they can get their entire crew to a needed destination.
Really, people, I just don’t get it. You always want to change the system to harm the many to help that poor person out who doesn’t want to follow the rules. Thanks a lot.
FlyingBoob: Why don’t you read before you open your mouth and spew misinformation like some corporate chump – or even worse a Trump voter? The father purchased the seat, had a ticket for it for another kid and wanted to use it for the lap kid. He had arranged this at the counter before he got on the plane.
@flyingBoat… what a bunch of BS and garbage that you posted. Don’t blame this family because Delta overbooked their long haul flight. The seat was never available in the first place since the father had already paid for it. All you care about is yourself and your lame argument that fares will go up if we mandate that airlines stop overbooking. Years ago these seats weren’t all non refundable but today almost all coach seats are non-refundable so Delta was already paid once for the seat. What right do they have selling the seat for a second time without reimbursing the individual that paid for it the first time? All double booking does is allow the airlines to sell seats twice. They don’t care who they inconvenience all they care about is profiting over something that they shouldn’t be profiting from. Stop your whining and get a real job if you can’t afford it.
Flyingboob: Where did you even come up with that information you posted–
I’m assuming it was from reading other post written by people who also had not bothered to take a few minutes to read the article, watch the video, catch the national News, videos of same or read the last post where I spelled out what happened because you would then have understood why Delta apologized which obviously you clearly missed as well.
I have yet to come across an article that says whether he actually purchased a fourth ticket. Has anybody seen an article that addresses that? That he didn’t have the ticket he was using for the 2 year old scanned while boarding seems odd.
This is simple,:reservations are associated with a named individual and those named individuals didn’t check in. Tough love. And by the book, it’s fraud or breach of contract by the customer.
But in this time of heightened sensitivity, it makes a good story.
All this is mute because Delta already apologized for their mistake and poor service and they have already compensated the family for the inconvenience. Delta wouldn’t have paid out any money if it wasn’t clearly their fault. Their flight crew has no business lying to it’s customers and the airlines needs to stop this outrageous practice of overbooking flights.
Any airline or business will often pay out money to quickly obtain a settlement with a customer. They might appologize, but it doesn’t mean the airline contradicted their contract of carriage.
The story appears that Delta’s PSS system saw a no-show customer and issued a boarding pass for that newly available seat for a standby customer. Standard procedure.
This isn’t an overbook situation. It’s a customer that didn’t show up.
And besides, overbooking is not outrageous. Handling it poorly is outrageous. Overbooking keeps prices low and statistically is insignificant in delaying passengers in comparison to weather or mechanical issues. But I’ll admit, it makes great evening news fodder.
Watch the video. Watch the news videos. He states that he had purchased the ticket and even the flight attendant and then the supervisor agreed but said that the older son wasn’t there to sit in the seat and falsely stated the only reason that the child could not sit there was it was against FAA rules which they were having printed out but that never occurred because they most likely found out that they were completely in the wrong. Because the father continue to stand his ground, they were removed from the plane. As I stated previously there were many errors on Delta’s on Delta’s part for which they apologized and assumed responsibility for the families expenses. I really don’t get what is so hard to understand! SMH
I didn’t watch the video in detail, but clearly miscommunication was in fully effect. But if the passenger didn’t check in and board — it doesn’t matter, that passenger “didn’t exist.” — and all of the reporting indicates they all could have been better behaved.
The only FAA rule that probably was violated on camera is that the customer disobeyed the directions of a flight crew member. (A US Federal crime that is often punished.)
I personally believe it best to do everything possible in order to make it an informed opinion. The family only made one mistake and that was choosing Delta. Over and over, Delta representative failed to provide the proper service which resulted in this fiasco.
The family did not violate any FAA regulations but we’re told they would if they did not disembark and give up all four of their seats to the stand by passengers. The father was told if they did not do so both he and his wife would be arrested and their children would be taken away from them and put in foster care. A Delta supervisor then boarded the plane and advised the father that they were waiting for the FAA regulation to be printed out to determine who was correct in regard to whether or not they child could occupy his own seat. The supervisor made it clear to the family that they were inconveniencing all on board. I can only surmise that once the regulation was printed and read by the staff, they realized they were wrong and chose not to share the printed regulation with the family. Instead yet another error in judgment and in service was made but this time it was egregious. I do feel that if you actually watch the video you would be appalled at the way this was handled and understand why once again Delta apologized and attempted to compensate the family.
Patricia is absolutely right. People need to stop making excuses for poor customer service. Delta knew the seat was purchased by the family before they decided to sell it for a second time without offering to refund the money to them. The gate agent was also apparently told what they were doing. It didn’t become an issue until Delta got caught with their pants down by overbooking a long haul flight which in itself is disgraceful. Why should anyone who has a confirmed reservation not have a seat and be stuck in the gate area while the airline scrambles to try and cover their behind.
Disgraceful behavior by Delta including all their lies.
The father made several violations of the contract of carriage he entered into. He tried to use the seat for a different passenger that wasn’t there violating Rule 100 clause F and/or Rule 135 clause C requiring the name on the reservation match the passenger when he tried to place his child in the ’empty seat’. The father also appears to have not liked the application of Rule 135, clause D, section 1) indicating that failure to check-in AND board within the stipulated timeframes causes the reservation to be cancelled.
I’m not making excuses or defending Delta Airlines. But the fact is their system saw the seat was empty and tried to what was best for another customer… the fact that they couldn’t because someone who wasn’t aware (likely) and then thought a contract of carriage was ‘unfair’ or not applicable is what brought on the confrontation.
And it decidedly is a Federal Crime to violate the direction of the Flight Crew (which includes cabin crew.)
But rules are rules and laws are laws. While we get our customer-service knickers rightfully (I do agree!) in a knot and spark the conversation to find ways to make these confrontations not happen — we still must abide by the contracts we sign, and the laws that are in place.
“contracts we sign”. LOL. What passenger (other than attorneys) in the history of air travel have read the contract of carriage? What did the family sign? Some people are just apologists for shoddy customer service. We all watched Delta’s employees lie to this family on video and threaten to lock them up and put their small children in foster care. How does one possibly defend this type of behavior? Sorry but overbooking a flight is wrong and it needs to be stopped immediately.
What’s not revealed yet (and may never be since they’ll buy the family’s silence) is if they did OK the baby sitting in the teen’s ticketed seat when he took another flight, did they check in the seat or just let it go to no-show status? This probably would require a name change procedure since surely an agent is trained to never let anyone else check in (even family) on another named ticket in case the plane crashed, the manifest would clearly show someone checked in who they knew wasn’t on the flight.
Gary already clarified earlier or in another thread that one doesn’t need to comply with the airline’s requests in all cases. We dont’ have corporate rule yet. Getting the flight out on time is nice, but customers are not required to give up their rights or be subject to bodily injury if they don’t comply with questionable, civilly-actionable instructions. Ask United who are out between $1-10 million paid out in record time to Dr. Dao. He is not just right denying their unjust instructions, but an American hero. You see, Trump rednecks, what’s patriotic is questioning authority, not complying like a bootlicking lemming because you need a strong leader who arrived in the circus clown car..
“Contracts we sign” – I read it and I’m not an attorney. When purchasing tickets online you agree to the tickets rules and conditions, just like license agreements, or driving laws — you may not have read them, but you are bound by them. Ignorance is not an excuse.
I’m not apologizing for Delta’s behaviour (I fly 250k+ miles a year so I know the biz) and there is much work to be done, but thinking that this father is 100% innocent (he isn’t) and Delta is 100% wrong (they aren’t by the book) is not appropriate — And I’m simply trying to act as an opinion counterbalance to the Delta bashing.
Ask yourself if you were running an Airline. If a customer didn’t board and you have a customer on stand-by, would you issue a boarding pass to that customer? Of course you would.
As for overbooking. There was no evidence this was an overbooked flight (maybe there were some standbys) but I fully support overbooking. It keeps fares 10-15% lower than they would be otherwise. For the statistically insignificant # of passengers this actually disrupts, the savings is well worth it.
@Matthew…. total rubbish. If seats are non-refundable why should an airline sell it twice? Also where in the world do you get your facts from? 10-15% lower airfares when airlines are allowed to overbook flights???? That is just pure ignorance of the facts. No passenger with a valid paid ticket should ever be told there is no seat for them if the airline accepted their reservation and their money. This could easily be solved by assigning all seats in advance but NO the airlines don’t want to do this because they would be losing extra revenue that they receive by up-selling seat assignments. Enough is enough with the greed passengers have rights too.
Matthew M it is clear that you just skimmed the Conditions of Carriage, i.e., Delta Domestic General Rules Tariff TOC and jumped to the two sections you mentioned. Further it is clear that you only read what you believed to be enough to prove your point. However, had you read these rules in their entirety and then applied these rules to the ACTUAL EVENTS, you would realize that the breach lands directly in Delta’s “lap” and not in the “lap” of the parents.
Once again, if you would bother yourself to take the time to at least view the video of the actual event, you might possibly gain an understanding of what in point of fact occurred and perhaps then you could articulate an informed post.
“Watch the video. Watch the news videos”
That was the point of my post. Whether he bought three tickets or four is never addressed in any of the videos, including the one the family posted themselves, and it makes a difference. If he just changed his other son’s ticket and didn’t buy a ticket for the 2YO, he didn’t have any claim to the seat he put the 2YO in. He actually had no claim to it anyway if he didn’t have a ticket in the 2YO’s name, but that could be an honest mistake on his part. Delta would be breaking the law dispatching without a proper passenger count or manifest, so they had to resolve this before departure. Also, mismatch between ticket and passenger name violates TSA regs, though I’m not sure whether the passenger is the violator for doing it, or the airline for permitting it.
“The family only made one mistake and that was choosing Delta”
It could have been worse; they didn’t get beat up by the cops, beaten in the head with a stroller, or forced to fight it out with other passengers inflight.
@Mark — Any reader of Gary’s View from the Wing forum knows full well why Airlines do what they do. The rules/contracts are decidedly in the favour of the airline and that ‘slant’ alone spawns numerous posts on this blog. But those rules/contract terms are buried in the systems the airlines use… how those airlines buffer the customer from the sometimes negative implications of the system is the challenge. And in this case, Delta’s system worked exactly as it was designed to — and offered the seat of a customer who didn’t check in to a customer who wanted to fly. Delta’s process on how to deal with a customer who tried to sneak around the system (‘squirrely’ was the term Gary used) failed miserably though.
As for overbooking % limit — ask any gate agent. I’ll wait. 😉 (Though this wasn’t necessarily an overbooking scenario, likely just customers going standby) — I actually had lunch with a former Ozark/Republic/Northwest MSP gate agent last Wednesday when this topic came up. The limit % has probably come down from approx. 15% as the systems have gotten better at predicting customer behaviour, but it is not zero.
But to all those who are complaining that airlines are inherently evil; ask yourself: If airlines could not overbook (to offset those who customers who misconnect/go earlier etc), if they could not offer a seat to a standby customer when a ‘normal’ customer didn’t bother show up — flights will be dispatched with empty seats and that costs money. So where does those costs go? Straight back to the airfare/baggage fees/change fees — if the market will tolerate them, if not, well we could go back to the ongoing airline ‘bankruptcy’ rotation.
Not just referring to only this case (Delta), but rather airlines’ behavior towards children and their parents in general. For parents who have done the research on child safety during flights and is able to purchase a seat for their child, airlines do not have the right to treat those customers differently. I’m astonished that in 2017, I have to explain to people that kids are humans, and with that comes the same set of rights you would afford any other paying customer.
The father never argues that he bought another ticket for Grayson (the 2 year old). The airlines stance is that the ticket and seat was for Mason (the 18 year old) who never boarded and that he couldn’t just give the seat to his 2 year old. The father never disputes that the seat was supposed to be for Mason, his argument is simply “i bought that seat, i paid for that seat”. The father never says in the video that he worked it out with Delta counter agents that he could give the seat to his 2 year old. That’s what he has claimed after the fact and does not seem credible.
The Delta supervisor who shows up at the 3 minute mark totally screws up by shifting the argument to baby seats and age of sitting in your own seat. I don’t think the supervisor understood the situation and the problem. She leaves by saying “I just came by to say hi, I’ll let them handle it” she didn’t have a clue to as to what the problem was she inserted herself in.