Johnny pointed out just how wide-open American’s new Los Angeles – Sydney flight was last night. I had to have a look for myself.
So about four hours prior to departure I had a look at the inventory for the flight. They were certainly selling plenty of seats.
Gosh, you’d think that on a wide open flight that’s four hours from departure there’s really no chance of selling out. Perhaps they’d make some business class award seats available. It’s pretty much a certainty that any upgrade request would clear.
In fact, I took a look at the seat map. Only 12 seats were even taken on the seatmap. Not a perfect indication of the flight load, but a pretty good one when more than three quarters of the seats are unassigned. This flight is an employee nonrev traveler’s dream.
- Blue seats are occupied
- White seats are available for assignment
Since they’re never going to sell these seats, it’s a gimme to use points right?
Not even close. Let’s take a look at the award calendar.
The cheapest business class award option is 215,000 points. That’s this flight:
It’s understandable that on a premium route with their best aircraft they’ll want to be a bit conservative releasing award space. At this time there is not a single day during the entire 11 months of the schedule that there’s even one business or first class saver award Los Angeles – Sydney. That’s absurd. But it’s worse than that.
They aren’t just protecting seats hoping to sell them, not knowing yet what seats are going to go unsold. Even when it is 100% obvious that seats are going out empty, they’re still extorting members for more than 200,000 miles for a one way flight. That’s some dirty pool.
What about dropping prices?
It’s this kinda stuff that makes the new award chart harder to swallow. As you said, it’s one thing if the plane is or could be full. But when they know a seat would be empty, they should be working to get miles off the books and let their members redeem their points.
Yes- is AA selling upgrades cheap for cash to economy passengers? If so, that is fair. They get some money and economy passengers can upgrade over people trying to get seats for free with points.
I’m tired of people blindly supporting what is in many ways a useless FF program. If I can’t redeem miles at a reasonable rate for AA’s own flights, what’s the point? No TATL availability, none to Australia, and little to Asia.
So many in the blogging world like AAdvantage because of the partner award sweet spots, but none of those airlines fly to the places that I want to go. BA has a lot of availability, but only if you’re willing to shell out hundreds of dollars in ridiculous fuel surcharges.
At this point, SkyMiles is the more useful program to me. Delta has a lot of low-level availability this summer on their own metal. Even when awards on their owns flights aren’t available, most of their partners do not charge fuel surcharges.
At this point, SkyMiles > AAdvantage
This is something AA should really answer for. It does no one any good.
Suddenly (GASP) SkyPesos are starting to look appealing!
Have you reached out to your buddy, Myra (or whatever her name is)?
Rubin should show her face and explain wtf is going on, if she dares
During Christmas week? Have I reached out to anyone.. for what?
American’s other favorite award trick is to have a bunch of outbound saver awards i.e. ORD-LHR in the summer months and no returns from any European destinations. Unless you want to fly BA and pay huge SQ charges.
Just because you can see a wide open seat map does not mean those seats are unsold it just means that seat assignments for certain fare types/non-elite status passengers have not yet been made. QANTAS does this all the time on transPacific flights… right up until boarding there are many “open” seats but once on board those seats are full.
I fly this route often in paid F and appreciate the empty cabin. Much quieter and more efficient service. Kudos to AA for keeping the riff raff looking to fly on points in the back of the bus.
Reached out to your vaunted contacts at AAdvantage? Sure, not on Xmas Eve but this isn’t a new problem and will still be a problem after the holidays. Your AA buddies are quick to use you to push out their PR stances – how about getting them on record as to why this situation is occurring?
@Bruce – all American Airlines premium cabin fares are eligible for advance seat assignment. You can see that the maximum display of seats for sale exist in all fare buckets from full fare business on down to the cheapest economy fare. And more than 75% of the business cabin is unassigned 4 hours prior to departure. That cabin is basically empty.
@Eric I have spoken with them about this issue generally in recent months, not about this flight in particular. And I’ve written about the situation — and that different groups inside the airline have different incentives. Unfortunately those who want to offer reasonable award space do not appear to be winning.
@Bruce
We are talking about Premium Cabin here, not the coach cabin. With AA, most business class fares allow you to select seats at booking. The QF analogy does not work in AA’s operation model.
The fact is plain and painful – it has been this way how AA operates not just on its premium long haul routes, but virtually all direct Transcon flights. Case in point, MIA-LAX has 7 daily flights, yet the best you would ever see being available is either the first flight departs at 6am or sometimes the last flight EVEN when there are plenty of seats available on the remaining 5 or 6 flights during the day. No release of award seats up till departure. So you are forced to go thru CLT or some other US hubs. The usual AA connections at either ORD or DFW are also missing. This has been the way how AA operates for the past 24 months.
I am glad some posters mentioned about DL. We were able to redeem 62.5K DL miles on VS Upper Class in the middle of August only 45 days out – the 3 months Jul, Aug and Sept being the prime time of European travel, there were low level seats on VS 75% of the days. AA had ONE, yes ONE day in August on its own metal and Five on BA metal. Yeah, it only costs 50K on AA versus 62.5K on DL program, but if you dont get to use your miles for its intent – award travel, the chart becomes meaningless. The only saving grace in the past is the relatively easy to get premium cabins on CX to Asia – that is going to change after Mar 22. AA soon will be the WORST program among the 3, because while UA has similar levels on its chart, UA has A LOT MORE Partners flying to all continents. It is much easier to find award seats with UA partners to virtually any where. Europe is much easier because 1) the number of partners, 2) the far less restrictive routing rules, just an example for the most traveled award routes.
Despite their older generation hard product, AA’s behavior makes United’s program look more and more attractive.
@William : so true. Have you noticed all the blogging world talk about is CX and EY ? That’s because that’s all there is to redeem for AA miles that is worth writing about. Even JAL F pales compared to ANA F (and yes, I’ve tried both)
Using AA miles to europe is painful too. Between AA’s non-availability and BA’s fuel surcharges, you need to the flexibility of a contortionist to stitch together any reasonable itinerary.
This has been a problem for quite some time. Over a year ago, I monitored saaver space JFK-LHR for a few weeks. Even though the seat map showed many empty seats and AA had many seats available for sale (expertflyer.com), they would let planes go out without allowing openning business or first award space.
Why collect miles if you can’t use them?
It’s really fraud to publish an award chart and not make any seats available.
If an airline is going to provide an incentive program – you need to be able to USE your points. Partner airlines should hold each other accountable for releasing awards. Why would IB want to allow AA to book tickets on their metal when they’re not providing much in return?
I was an AA 100K flier for 5 years – I have millions of miles. I can’t get to Europe, Asia, or Australia on AA’s metal in premium cabins even if i’m flexible.
Looks like tonight’s flight is equally empty. The only difference, and maybe last night was the same, is that upgrade space (c) is >7. So you can use an EVIP or upgrade w/ cash + miles. But that still stings as the cheapest coach tickets + the copays is still a decent chunk of cash.
“During Christmas week? Have I reached out to anyone.. for what?”
That”s a cop out answer.
@AJ Pennypacker: Since the route’s only been going for a week I doubt you fly it often in F.
@FLL: July/August/September aren’t prime time for European travel. They’re low season, hence the good award availability. The comment about AA space vs. DL stands though.
@ AJ Pennypacker says:
I fly this route often in paid F and appreciate the empty cabin. Much quieter and more efficient service. Kudos to AA for keeping the riff raff looking to fly on points in the back of the bus.
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I get that you are just killing time on the internet looking for attention by pretending to be a luxury traveler who looks down upon everybody else but since this route started 7 days ago your premise makes no sense. Instead, try pretending that you fly the Etihad apartment each week and you are irritated that they let “those people” out of the baggage hold, that premise makes more sense.
AB seems to release two J seats on each flight out of the US. AA should do the same.
Great post.
@Jim – see my other answers in this thread. I have reached out on this, had conversations, and have written about the issue. And remember, I’m the one who wrote this post! So hardly giving them a pass…! 😉
@patricia: Yes, the bloggers only focus on programs that’ll get them credit card referrals. “Sign up for this UA credit card and you’ll have less than half the miles needed for LH F!” doesn’t make a great sales pitch. Of course, the fact that they’re the ones who destroyed the mileage game by blabbing all the secrets to millions of people for their own self interest never occurs to the bloggers!
I disagree about JL vs. NH F though. Both are great but I prefer JL.
And frankly I would have expected to get kudos from @mark because I didn’t write about my first trip to Sydney, or how I have family that moved there when I was 5.
Does this mean systemwides will automatically clear?? Or are they holding those back to ?
I completely understand that airlines want to hold back award space until it’s clear that seats won’t be sold, but AA really makes some odd choices that make no sense from a business standpoint. They should be trying to monetize any unsold seat, and for last-minute travel, the best way is to keep revenue fares high but release seats to the FF program. It’s a sad trade-off: DL almost always has availability, but your guess is as good as mine what the skymile price will be. With AA the price is clear and cheap (even post-devaluation, C is competitively priced), but to “north asia” you have to pray that JL doesn’t sell out, since they won’t let you “backtrack” on CX.
Gary: If you are reaching out to various folks for comment I would love to hear what a Citi rep thinks about this situation. I have used this reason to get the annual fee waived for the past 2 years.I have to believe that is costing them significant $$$. Also Citi is apparently sitting on billions of AA miles which are being devalued just like our miles. I can hardly wait for the first 250,000 bonus offer from Citi for $2500.00 spend!
Thank you Gary for this post it is spot on, this is worse than a joke. AA must know that many of us are watching carefully. Your commenters are quite articulate also. I just noted the same thing a few days ago surfing the site. The Europe nonstop availability on AA metal has been terrible for a long time now, and a J seat to Sydney would literally be a Christmas miracle. Thanks for raising this issue. I was in favor of the merger and am not an ‘I hate Doug’ guy – but theyve gone too far with all the AAdvantage program changes. I can only assume that they’ve written down the value of the miles of the books even further, and a couple of cash upgrades day of flight are worth a lot more than a cabin full of points people.
Here’s the key comment I read: ‘why have points if you cant use them’. That is the future. The programs are going away. Hopefully there will be surviving credit card point programs booking for cash – but I stopped playing the status game a long time ago and pay for the class and efficiency (nonstop on whatever airline). Burning my points as quickly as possible but only in an efficient way (Saver) – and its taking forever.
@Gic often held back until pretty close to departure but then the space opens up and clears..
They’ve been doing this for several years on European routes.
Seat maps are not a good indicator. By law airports hold a certain amount of seating for special needs and special services. Those seats, even if assigned, 75% of the time still show as open on public seat maps when boarding because the assigning processes vary. Having a flight with 10-12 seats open on a new international route is pretty good work in the eyes of most airlines. Of course the awards bookings are going to be expensive the first few months. It’s like a new TV, they are expensive then drop in price
I’m glad you’re giving this some attention, Gary — long overdue. 1-1/2 years ago I was looking for business or first MileSaaver seats for LAX-GRU. The business cabin was lightly booked; the first cabin was 100% empty on MANY days, three months out, except for the same two seats that were set aside for crew rest on every flight.
On repeated attempts with AA’s EXP desk, AAgents couldn’t explain it, other than to say that maybe it was a technical glitch on a (then) brand new route. Even as late as 24 hours before the actual flight, the first cabin was 2/3 empty, and the business cabin was barely half full, but we weren’t allowed to re-ticket my partner’s coach seat in the other classes. Letters to AA after the fact yielded nothing more than the usual automated non-reply of corporate BS.
For AA to say that MileSaaver seats are available for a certain price on a given route, and then never avail those seats is nothing less than false advertising.
The one thing it shows clearly is the contempt AA has for its loyal customers.
How much are they selling Y -> J upgrades on this flight?
So weird that Delta miles became comparatively much more useful without anyone noticing
To Europe, aa.com will only give you via LHR on BA with the ripoff charges.It will never let you have AA, AB, IB, Finnair flights. So, how would you ever, for example, use AA miles on AB flights?
I want to travel the same route on January 7, 2017 (2 Business Class seats). While that Anytime Award has not yet been released (a month or so down the road), if this year is any predictor, I will be faced with the same 215,000 mile one-way price tag. AA’s chart says that the anytime awards cost 140,000 miles or 175,000 miles–but with an asterisk “sometimes higher.” Is there any chance that, at least AA will revert to the published Anytime price of 175,000 (enough of a gouging!)?
As for your “reaching out,” no, not during Christmas week. But how about a more appropriately timed communication where you give AA the feedback about “dirty pool” and ask if there can be some relief?
@Steve is exactly right. The unfortunate reality that has emerged over the past 24 months is that those who have stayed loyal have been extremely foolish (myself included). I am disappointed that I cannot use the miles I have, but I am even more angry that I have been paying a premium in both cash and time to stay loyal to AA only to have them change the deal after the fact (please don’t quote my the T&C’s, I understand the T&C’s do not guarantee awards – I am talking about the devaluations, the rapid and dramatic elimination of availability, and the deliberate and obvious scheme to force people to pay BA fees). I have spent hundreds of dollars and dozens of hours this year alone flying AA through DFW when I could have flown UA, DL, Alaska or Jet Blue and gotten where I was going faster and usually cheaper. By October I had figured that I was done with loyalty, I will do what I can to use my EXP systemwides in 2016 but otherwise I will pay for the class of service I want and I will pick the airline based on convenience, reliability and quality of service – 9 times out of 10 that will not be AA simply because they do not excel in any of those characteristics for the routes I typically fly.
I am surprised that Doug and his crew are arrogant enough to think that they do not need loyal customers, particularly customers who are typically paying premium fares. I have not backed out taxes from this calculation but I paid a little over 24 cents per mile flying AA this year. Considering that AA’s PRASM is now at 13.16 cents, I would think I am an attractive customer to them, but apparently they’d rather fly empty seats to Australia than have me onboard.
They are finally making money because of fuel prices dropping – something they had absolutely nothing to do with – but they’ve deluded themselves into thinking that their sudden success has come because of their own capability and hard work.
The ironic reality is AA will make more money off the non-rev surcharges it charges its own employees to sit in premium classes than allowing ‘loyal’ customer to burn their earned miles.p on these seats. Absolutely pathetic behavior on AAs part. Everyone seemed to want this crAAptastic merger and downed Dougie’s [spiked] kool-aid…well, here’s your cake, now eat!
@Another Steve – I’d make two observations…
1. The massive decline in award availability began in mid-2012, under previous management, though it’s gotten worse both with new management and a better economy. Hard to demonstrate which is the driver.
2. I’ve been loyal to AA and don’t feel burned, they were providing substantially more value than competitors the past several years. I knew it wouldn’t last.
@Burt Hellman – the peak holiday period is 215k but there are definitely dates when AAnytime is 140k. I would expect January 7 unfortunately not to be one of those 🙁
@Jerry Mandel – remember that AA.com does not support searches for Iberia. So AA.com will never give you that as an option. Search award space on the BA.com or Qantas websites, then call. AA will waive the telephone booking fee.
Gary, your headline is incorrect…there are award seats available every day. They just aren’t at your desired price point! Big difference.
@DiscoPapa Etihad will sell you London – Abu Dhabi one-way in the residence for ~ 2.3 million miles. Do you consider them to be releasing award inventory?
Umm…comment. Reach out for comment. C’mon, thought leader.