An American Airlines passenger shared that they were kicked off of a flight on Thursday after putting their carry on bag in a first class overhead bin while flying economy.
He tells me that when he boarded full class was nearly full, with only one seat still open. Everyone else in the cabin had already stored their bags. But the flight attendant up front asked him to take his bag back to coach. Instead of simply complying he says that he asked, “why, the bin is empty? The [one] person left to board can’t possibly be bringing 5 bags to fill this bin.”
The flight attendant’s response was to ask, “are you refusing to be compliant?” And at that he grabbed his bag and went to his seat in the back of the aircraft while saying “that is idiotic.” It’s the back talk that does it every time.
The passenger shares that he chatted with crewmember in the back of the aircraft and asked where he’d find the rules limiting overhead bin space to American’s passengers? That flight attendant went to her on board phone….
One minute later a third flight attendant comes back and says the captain wants to know if I am planning on being compliant for the rest if the flight?
I said my bag is back here what do you mean?
I said does the captain have a copy of the passenger rules I need to abide by.
Three minutes later, he reports, that two employees board the aircraft and escort him off. American booked him on the next flight, and he sat in the airport for four hours waiting for it.
Now, coach passengers store their bags in first class all the time, even though American generally has signage on bins indicated that they are for first class, for Main Cabin Extra, and for economy section passengers.
There’s no rule in the airline’s contract of carriage, or published elsewhere (other than on the inside of bins themselves) stating that a passenger may only use the bins whose labels correspond to the seat assignments on their boarding passes.
As a matter of etiquette, first class passengers should have priority for bins in their cabin, and all things equal a passenger should have priority for the space above their seat. But when space runs out, all bets are usually off.
In this case there was space in the back for the passenger near his seat in coach. He didn’t need the first class space, and neither did first class passengers. It’s common for coach passengers to stick bags up as soon as they find space, when boarding late in the process, “just in case.”
However passengers need to follow crewmember instructions, but that is actually limited! For instance 14 C.F.R. 121.317(k) states passengers must comply with instructions regarding seat belts and smoking. You aren’t required to share your lunch with crewmembers, for instance, if told to do so. You aren’t obligated to turn over your jewelry.
But 49 USC § 44902 provides broad latitude, within certain bounds laid out by the FAA, for the captain of an aircraft to refuse transportation to a passenger if they feel that passenger might be “inimical to safety.”
A pilot’s decision cannot be arbitrary or capricious – but that’s not the same as saying it has to be reasonable! It’s generally presumed that the actions of the pilot are reasonable, and judged based on facts the pilot was aware of at the time and the time constraints they’re under.
- If they’re given only one side of the story, and it’s incomplete
- And they make a decision based on that information
- And they’re in a rush to get the plane out
- That’s probably going to be fine under the law
So if the captain felt that a passenger could be a safety risk solely because they weren’t listening to a flight attendant, even if it involves an issue where they’re not obligated to follow instructions, they’re probably within their rights to kick you off the plane. It probably wasn’t fair here, though the passenger was unwise to escalate things.
At the same time, cabin crew probably should have handled things better so that it didn’t get to this point. If they want to be the one of the few flight attendants enforcing first class overhead bins for first class passengers only, they might have offered:
Excuse me sir, would you mind taking your bag out of that overhead bin please? We’re restricting the use of that bin right now, and there’s plenty of space towards the back of the aircraft. [And, if possible under the circumstances] I’d be happy to show you.
Should the first class overhead bins be for first class passengers only? And if so, should a passenger get kicked off of the flight when they disagree – even if they move their bag back to coach?
One of the many reasons I refuse to fly AA. Is it a coincidence that it is always an AA flight where the FA’s act like nazis? I think not.
I’m actually sympathetic to the passenger but he could have asked before sticking his bag in the bin up front. But in these times where there is an excess of #FA, it’s time for some #FO too.
I don’t think the flight attendant was being unreasonable. When he was told to move it, he should have done it and shut up. I’m pretty sure he didn’t start the same scat on the next flight.
The flight waitress is a Nazi but in this case – good. Take your damn bags to your seat.
Yes but to kick him off was way too draconian.
AA is correct!. And, I am 99% positive that the photo you show of an empty overhead bin is not from that altercation. So, shame. Shame on you. The overheads are always nearly packed because no one puts anything under the seat in front of them.
Americans are fat and have too much crap in roller bags with four wheels now and seem to take up 1.5 m while walking down the concourse.
The entire reason to fly in Biz is to have the restroom and dedicated overhead space.
The seats in Coach are fine. But, they are rogue with guarantees hence all the Gate Lice trying to board first. Please- get real.
Bottom Line: Put tape over your mouth. Don’t even give the slightest hint of not doing 110% of what an FA says – they are the arbitrary, all-powerful rulers of the sky! If you want to get from point A to point B in a reasonable period of time you have to give up all your personal liberties, freedoms and other constitutional rights….and you need to do whatever the FA wants you to do, without ANY backtalk.
Interestingly, I have seen on more than occasion a non-rev putting things in the first class compartments and then going back to coach for their seat and the FA’s say NOTHING – becuz the non-rev is “one of them,” and not one of the paying customers.
FC bins are often half full of crew bags anyway…
DYKWIA pax upset after FA tells him the rules. If he wants to use the FC storage, he can pay for the ticket. Otherwise, just drive, not fly.
I hope he puts his bag in first when he is row 30 next time. I’ll just take it off with me, remove his valuables and leave it in the trash next to the gate. Arrogant price. If he is back of plane he has no status and deserves to be kicked off. Like today I was flying another airline towards the front, someone way in the back left their bag in bin above me. Nice little profit, stupid idiots. I never leave me bag out of sight. If u do, good luck… hahaha
I just came off a combination of international and domestic flights. This was DL but one bin in FC was full of crew bags. Most of one in Comf+. I see this regularly. FA say they need the space since they may need to run to the next flight. But by the time they get through deplaning their bags could be pulled from the cargo compartment and sitting in the Jetway. Then there is the last flight of the day terminating in crew rest. Yep. This crew bags were taking up space overhead.
Maybe all the airlines need to rethink crew bag storage.
“I said does the captain have a copy of the passenger rules I need to abide by.”
And off the plane you go. People forget, this is a ship, and ship rules apply: Captain is in charge and he doesn’t need to put up with a wise aleck because that same guy will be a problem in the event you need people to listen when it is important. Good riddance.
Gary, where you talk about the standards for a pilot’s decisionmaking re the “inimical to safety” standard (like that they cannot be arbitrary and capricious but need not meet a reasonableness standard), is there FAA guidance on that? Administrative or court decisions?
@DiogenesTheCynic – court decisions, which will only be dictum in some circuits
Though harsh…siding with AA. Even with a 1st class ticket, I always “line up” and rush to board because the overhead bins get full..yes even in 1st class. As another reader pointed out..people are outrageously plump
and completey oblivious to their surroundings.
First of all he didn’t get thrown off for using the first call bag storage (took bag back to coach). He got thrown off for arguing w an FA then apparently raising the issue to one in the back. You heard his side which I’m sure is understated as to his behavior. I don’t like overbearing FAs but, in around 8 million miles on many different airlines, I have NEVER encountered a ride or over bearing FA. Passenger attitude and behavior has a lot to do with it. Most feel entitled. First of all glad he wasn’t allowed to out the bag in first and I’m willing to bet the FAs were concerned that with is attitude it could be a problem in flight. Better to kick him off than risk further problems. No sympathy at all for this dude.
There would be more space for bags in coach if 1) Flight attendants were not reserving themselves with a full rack of overheads to put their huge and non-compliant multi-bag carry-ons and 2) If airlines were not storing all kind of junks there (oxygen bottles, pillows, seat belt extenders), and finally 3) of they were enforcing carry on size
This guy deserved exactly what he got. The FA did ask him nicely and he argued and then started asking a bunch of questions repeatedly during boarding/prep for takeoff. I’m one of those PAYING First Class customers that will do everything in my power to stop You from using my overhead bin, and the bathrooms in the FC Cabin. There is a reason there is a partition. Follow the rules of decorum. Period.
Wouldn’t the sign inside each bin indicated it was only for the use of passengers in a specific cabin be considered a placard and doesn’t Federal regulations require compliance with all placards aboard the aircraft?
I don’t fly in the back of the plane. However, when the front is boarded (and in this case sounds like a pax in the one empty seat wouldn’t be taking up that much overhead) I think this person should be allowed to place his/her bag in the overhead. I just flew AS/SFO-LAX this week, First was fully seated and it was a full flight and the F/A told the last group of pax to put their bags in any open overhead. At that point, seems completely reasonable to me. That said, sounds like this pax should have had a little different attitude…
Some FAs are like rouge cops. Some are lazy, too.
One problem is that schools teach kids that there is freedom of speech and everyone is equal. No, the FA is the Nazi concentration camp guard and we are scum.
*&^ autocorrect
rogue
First class bins and lavs are for FIRST CLASS ONLY. Didn’t pay for it or get upgraded to it? You don’t get to use it.
One of the main reasons for pay for F is dedicated baggage space and restrooms, so you don’t have to deal with the riff raff. I cannot stand it when FAs decline to enforce the dedicated baggage space and restrooms.
I always felt pilots were glorified bus drivers who’re give outsized respect and deference. In fact, buses are harder to operate and navigate.
NO sympathy for this man at all. The bin is reserved for first class, you’re not in first class, unless someone specifically invited you to use it, don’t touch it, it’s not for you. Bring your bag to your own seat.
Should the first class overhead bins be for first class passengers only? – Yes. They even mark it that way to avoid problems and misunderstandings. If you want an exception to a CLEARLY written rule, you ask.
And if so, should a passenger get kicked off of the flight when they disagree – even if they move their bag back to coach? – If they’re stupid enough to keep messing with the FA, you bet! All the jerk had to do was keep his mouth shut over not getting special treatment but that was too much to ask from this guy.
Ultimately, the guy got precisely what he deserved. If he hadn’t been annoying and repeatedly warned I might have some sympathy but since he was warned I don’t. I think the four hour delay is just about right except since he’s still whining about it he obviously hasn’t learned anything from this incident. I suppose I should be surprised by that but given his behavior it’s not really a shocker.
No sympathy for this arrogant, loud-mouthed jagoff. Good for the crew for kicking his carcass off the plane.
The bag is not the problem, the attitude is. Also, Jake, really. . .???
United Airlines FA using up my business class overhead bin above my seat with her massive baggage on a Trans-Pacific flight four years ago caused me to avoid UA. That, and domestic first class is worse than coach class less than twenty years ago, with no hot meal but a cold box of salty sugary snacks, no welcome cocktail, overhead bins filled with FA personal bags, FA’s moving my small bag from above my 1st class seat to the seat across the aisle and back a couple rows to accomodate a coach class passenger’s bulky wheeled bag (this just happened to me two weeks ago,) a constant parade of coach class passengers using the 1st class toilet, and a pilot pulling down a $600+k salary for being able to stay sober and push the autopilot button, no aisle curtain to separate classes, and coach class seats like RyanAir seats. Yeah, at first blush, I was going to skip over this ridiculous story; but, upon further review, I saw that it encapsulated nearly everything that is preventing the legacy airlines of UA, AA, and DL from reviving the Golden Age of Travel.
AA is a joke. They don’t enforce “airplane mode on large devices” and are always having side conversations about everything but the task at hand. Maybe they aren’t paid enough to take pride in their job
Now if they would just stop the coach passengers from using the first class bathroom – that’s the real problem.
It pays to be nice. “Please”
Flight attendants have become imperious snots. Off with their heads, I say!
In 2023 customer is NOT ALWAYS RIGHT! IF Anyone has flown enough we all know this would not have happened UNLESS the coach refused to move his item, and if no space, REFUSED TO STOW IT BELOW.
The crew is in control and the captain is in charge – for everyone’s safety. No question here. Do you pull this kind of stunt with TSA or jokingly mention a gun at the checkpoint? I think not. Begrudgingly follow the instructions and no one gets hurt. It’s as simple as that.
I find it disgusting the comments calling the FA a Nazi. Flying today is a nightmare. Obese entitled people with stuffed roller bags and carryon food. It’s like a Greyhound bus in the air. People in first pay for the seat and the bin and service. If you don’t understand that then don’t fly.
The number of people flipping out on flight crews is insane. I support the crew. What a thankless job. The flying public have become wild animals.
I’ve been flying AA 29 years, 4 million miles, it has never been as bad as it is now. From one who flies every week, this is a company gone completely bad. I just flew my, no credit card use, actual flight miles, reaching, the 200k level for Plat Exec, and I can honestly say the last six months have been pure torture. I have written to AA several times, and have made it clear, the minute I attained Plat Exec, I would run hard away from them and put the rest of my every week travel, for the rest of the year, on the other airlines. This company dies not care any more one bit, about customer service and satisfaction, all they care about is the dollar. Run fast from this airline, run hard, and don’t look back.
Dude feels like FA is making up arbitrary rules. It’s an AA FA so they are also likely being a jerk about it.
Dude challenges the FA, just as a matter of learning what the rules specifically are.
Captain gets involved, dude is feeling ganged up on by power tripping staff.
So many entitled people here whining in the comments. One Internet tough guy going as far to admitting but only to wanting to commit crimes but that he actually committed those crimes so either he’s a criminal or he is just some dude looking for attention and is pathetic. That’s who the rest of you are aligned with.
Everyone needs to have more grace. Changing you routine, being at the airport early, getting yelled at by TSA because this agent wants you to do something different than the previous agent, getting on your flight, etc it’s all stressful and it’s a process filled with people trying to tell you what to do aggressively.
I’m not saying he should talk back to the FA. They also go through basically the same thing, but daily. I’m saying the passenger should have grace for the FA but he’s also not a professional. The FA is supposed to be the professional and know when to let it go.
Good finally a FA that enforces rules and signs. The FA made an example of the pax hopefully other pax gets the message. I board early to make sure I get bin space everyone should do the same. Drives me nuts when boarding is only half complete and Y pax start throwing their stuff into F bins. Feels like their way to stick it to F pax. I remember once when F bins were full because of Y using F bin space and we all happily pointed out which bag did not belong to F pax. I was really annoyed when I was coming back from TPE and sitting in J on CI flight the guy across from put his bag over my seat. Like why? He had a huge bin over his seat.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you are going to worry about orders you need to follow from the flight crew, as far as I understand it, until the doors are closed the flight crew only has authority to order pizza. If they were still boarding the door couldn’t be closed. Therefore even if the order was valid and pertained to flight safety, you could still lawfully ignore it.
Really? C’mon now. This is ridiculous. Talk about a power trip, geez! Just because someone gets butt hurt over bag storage doesnt mean they won’t follow directions in an emergency.
There’s something about this story that doesn’t ring true with me.
I’m actually glad to see that she said something. Many times when I board and I am priority the overhead bin where I sit is filled and yet no one is sitting around me which means my bag has to either go and somebody’s bin in front of me or behind me. Just put it where it belongs please.
Try spending time is a small tube traveling at over 540 mph in weather that can and does change enroute… Getting slapped. , spit at , yelled at and at times getting punched in the face ….Safety is the number one issue . Any possible disruption for what ever reason by a passenger and having a pilot enter the issue Watch out you deserve to be put off .. Imagine the jerk tries to move his bag while the aircraft has taken and has to decide to reroute and land to try to stop more disruptions for the sake of safety at 35000 feet …..As for. The Nazi issue you posters are nothing but future trouble makers …Remember the Air Canada flight where the PAssenger disconnected the smoke alarm on the bathroom because he wanted to smoke and a fire started and lives were lost I remember …Just one of many assjokes thinkj a few hundred dollars gives them right to the Keys To the kingdom…….Be civil and ASK first…… .
First/business overhead bins and first/business bathrooms BOTH should be reserved for first/business class passengers. Period.
I think if the people way in the back seats could board first it would make things go faster. And stop giving people with kids the evil eye.
American Airlines FA just had a quarterly module a few months ago on deescalation. Apparently this group didn’t get the lesson ingrained.
AA flight attendants tend to make up their own rules and policies as they “thought” they heard them. Heard the lead FA the other day tell passengers to use the lavatory in their ticketed class of service. That is not an AA policy. Just his rule…. And made long annoying PA’s. “No, you weren’t hired so you could control people and make long PA’s as if people want to hear your comments!”
The FA was being a jerk, fulfilling the role of “Sky Nazi”. If everyone is on in FC, or in this case all but one, and there is an empty bin, who really cares where the coach passenger put his bag?
Had he put it in the compartment above the first row of MCE, would the FA had said anything?
Captains back the FAs no matter how crazy the FAs may be.
Was it a “safety issue” that the bag be in coach? Because the FAA doesn’t grant unlimited authority to FAs on everything they do. The FAA is concerned with safety of flight, not which cabin a passenger’s bag is stowed in.
He/She fully deserves it. Just follow the instruction and if there’s no space back there, the Y FA can solve the problem.
These days there are just too many self entitled folks.
FA should have been firm, but could have skipped the ‘compliance’ monologs.
Coach passenger did a douche move. Rationalizing it away is still a douche move.
On multiple occasions I’ve been connecting, in First. boarded late, no overhead space. Last time, FA found a space 10 rows back in Coach, so I had to wait to clear those rows to get back to get my bag, making some Coach pax angry. And while I was standing watching Coach people pass, two people pulled their bags out of the first bins.
@ Miss T – I shouldn’t have said “In fact.” The statement is based only on what my HS GED holding brother in law commercial pilot, who drove a bus earlier in his life, told me.
If there was room for the passenger’s bag at the front, nobody was hurt or offended. The stewardess was just power hungry. Nobody was harmed. Just silly.
stupid is as stupid does. By now everybody should know the crew are gods when it comes to your flights. either bow down or suffer the consequences. it is not right but neither are resort fees.
As an FA, when all FC passengers are seated, I consider any open FC bin fair game.
If I remember correctly, one seat was still open. While I agree that one person doesn’t need a whole space to themselves, he/she was right to ask the man to take his luggage with him.
As for our bags being ‘non-compliant’, that’s total BS. They are issued by the airline and are absolutely in line with the regulations.
As for the ridiculous complaint about oxygen bottles and other equipment being in a bin, that is decided by the airline, not us.
I’m sure you’d appreciate it being where it is if you experience a medical emergency yourself.
As for the giant raft taking up an entire bin on certain planes, I do wish they’d have been able to store it somewhere else, but here we are.
@ElliottS
Quote: “However, when the front is boarded (and in this case sounds like a pax in the one empty seat wouldn’t be taking up that much overhead) I think this person should be allowed to place his/her bag in the overhead.”
If the practice is openly allowed, there will be some passengers who will put their bags in there even when the boarding hasn’t nearly done and some of these passengers WILL return to the area to retrieve their things during the flight which can be an annoyance to the F and B passengers.
I’m with AA on this one (and I’m not an AA fan). Otherwise you end up with standards along the lines of: “Place your luggage in your cabin as near as possible to your seat when you board, unless (a) you see a on space in the first class cabin you would rather have which may lead to later-boarding first class passengers having to swim upstream upon disembarkation in order to retrieve their bags from economy, or (b) you wish to block the aisle and delay other passengers while you interrupt a FA who is trying to get off the ground and negotiate with the FA whether you can use the first class space, or (c) you take the space without asking and then FA later has to be interrupted in order to negotiate with you whether you should further delay boarding while you move your bag to where it belongs or else be kicked off the flight.”
If you are truly concerned/alarmed about how much discretion FAs currently have, then do you really want a system where proper luggage storage is subject a bag-by-bag negotiation in a process initiated by each boarding passenger? What published standards would you propose—that all FAs must be trained for—that each FA must follow in order to respond to your action/request so that all passengers are treated equally every time? Can you imagine what that will do to boarding times?
The overheads above first class seats should be reserved for first class until/if the cabin crew deem it necessary to stow other cabin baggage there.
Gary, kudos on reading the reg about passengers complying with crewmember instructions. So many crew mischaracterize this reg, and indeed I believe AA (and probably other carriers) provide them with written remarks to read out loud (into PA) that mischaracterize this reg, by removing the limitation as to what subjects passengers must comply with. See also https://www.benedelman.org/aviation-consumer/pfr-passenger-right-to-record-19jun2017.pdf paragraph 31.
FA’s are fed up .4 major airlines have edgy employees waiting on contracts. Fact.
Not sure it was worth kicking him off, but I can see the boiling points from employees getting worse.
Passengers can be lazy in the early boarding stages. Not caring about the Passengers boarding after them. Lots of entitlement now. Last passenger? Who cares where the bag goes. Just get the flight out.
While I agree with AA, I suspect the FA communicated this poorly because that’s how it goes on that shitty airline.
An idiot. An entitled one too. Also one who can’t learn.
People forget that airlines are private companies. You agree to their rules when you buy a ticket, plus it’s a federal requirement to comply with crew instructions.
1. We are only heading the passenger’s side of the story
2. Even with only his side, he is clearly in the wrong.
3. It is reasonable for the captain to worry about this guy disrupting his flight and wanting to play it safe even with what he claims to have said. In reality it was probably worse and a more aggressive tone
4. Passengers only panic and use the front bins because they are basically threatened at the gate that the will be no space and create the fear
5. The airline created this issue by aggressively monetizing baggage costs and providing poor baggage servic
6. Who knows what the FA really said but different words could probably have been used to deescalate.
People who just stuff their belongings into the overhead in first on their way to the back of the plane when boarding isn’t nearly complete are the absolute worst. Pure main character syndrome.
As someone who primarily flies FC but doesn’t want to rush to board first in line, I actually feel more positively about AA because of this. In my opinion, the only time it’s appropriate for your baggage to go in a cabin with a different class of service is if you are directly instructed to do so by a crew member, otherwise your carry on baggage should go wherever you do. Simple as that.
Doesn’t matter what class your seated in, your bag should go above your seat, only time it should be different is when all the bin space is full, but I find that to be almost never, most times even when it appears full, bags can be rearranged to make room. And don’t get upset if you put a birthday cake box in the overhead and my bag smashes it…you dumb ass.
The regs don’t specify where to poop either, but most of us successfully work it out with the signage. If the private company, ie AA, clearly marks luggage bins for passenger types by cabin (legal segregation). that’s what compliant passengers should adhere to. Otherwise, they should enjoy a four hour wait to remind them that their flight privileges are not absolute.
The FA should have gate-checked the bag and been done with it
Once again, the new power hungry flight crew going overboard. To all cabin crews … stay in your lane.
The carry on bags is a never ending issue. The airline(s) should state, “All passenger carry on items WILL be placed in the overhead bin above your assigned seat.” PERIOD. It should be printed on the boarding pass, repeated in the pre-board announcement, the boarding announcement and aboard the aircraft during boarding. While this won’t prevent the specific a*****e from ignoring, it will offer credence to the airline enforcing this. Also, when the passenger arrives at the assigned seat and the overhead bin is full, and the adjacent passengers can’t claim the bag is theirs, it’s pulled from the bin and deplaned. Simple.
Not an AA fan at all but for the absurd price for a first class ticket, they should have something to show for it. However if all were boarded and there was space, bend the rules a bit, dont toss him out. He DID comply buy he
complained on the way back to his seat.
All these issues with carryons are100 % fault of airlines who are so greedy
that they charge a lot to check a bag.
Then when the plane has no more space for carryons they will give you
a freebie to check it after most of passengers have paid.
Nauseating….
All bin space directly above _your_ seat should be given priority to you regardless of your class.
Now if we can only keep coach passengers from lining up in first class to use the bathroom in first class
I can relate to aa when I boarded once I paid for main cabin and someone had filled the bin right over my seat so he considerate of others u didn’t pay for first class usually stand by passengers are last to board I think I’ve seen signs on the bins stating bins for passengers in certain seats
Fares up front are 3-4x more than economy. Overhead bins, restrooms should be exclusively for those that paid that additional amount.
I am glad someone finally called out that conduct by passengers. The bins are for FC and are marked such. I have been in first and forced to put my bag in economy and it slows deplaning. Once all of first is present, FAs often add bags to FC if there is room so we can go without checking. But that is the FA managing bags. Otherwise take your stuff with you into your class of service.
Bathrooms. This is a bit different. Yes you should use toilets in your class of service. But often the trolley blocks that. So they have to come to first. It’s not that big of a deal.
We have heard one version of this story. I believe there is probably another version too
All these people do is waste time
Putting your carry on at the opposite end of where you are seated is harmless enough however (a) was he just being lazy, (b) just because you can doesn’t mean you should especially since he didn’t know what the regulations were, and (c) saying ‘this is idiotic’ has an implication that the FA was idiotic and also could imply that the passenger could have escalated while in flight over something else.
I say follow direction and don’t rock the boat. Don’t blame the FAs or Pilot when you as the the passenger was the instigator.
This is one more of many examples of the failure of airline passengers who simply are unable or unwilling to exercise common sense and common courtesy while flying. Whether it is a sense of entitlement, poor manners, or anxiety about air travel in general, these people create easily avoidable ill will, or worse, departure delays, or even police intervention by failing to do the simple task of finding their seat and stowing their belongings in the intended location. It would be one thing if there were no room in the coach cabin overhead bins and the FA directed the passenger to use the space in first class. It is not for the passenger to make this decision. It is also not for the passenger to speculate that it “would be impossible” for yet to board last first class passenger to have enough gear to require all of the remaining space in the first class bins. I tmay be highly unlikely, but he could not know that to be a fact. Furthermore, just as it is common practice to limit the use of first class lavatories to first class passengers, it is also common sense that those who have paid for the added comforts of first class are entitled to be undisturbed by other passengers accessing the bins above their seats mid flight. As strange as it seems, some passengers have been known to make nuisances of themselves by accessing the first class bins repeatedly in a disruptive manner as they vent their resentment over whatever gripes that they may be nursing about society’s inequities. An airplane can be a microcosm of society where people find themselves in different classes. However, the contrast is magnified in the confined space of an airplane, and some people just can’t deal with the fact that some are better situated than they are. Some respond to this by acting out in petty acts of rebellion that can quickly escalate into felonies. They might benefit by investing in some sessions with a good therapist.
First class bins should be reserved for first class passengers. Once all first class passengers have boarded, it should be up to a flight attendant only to allow a bag from someone seated elsewhere to be put in a first class section bin. Time and time again I have seen passengers seated in economy quickly stash their bag in the first class bins as they board. That should not be allowed. I have rarely seen a flight attendant monitor this or say anything.
I am Exec Plat on AA, in Group 1, fly Main Cabin Extra and I’m one of those Gate Lice who are always in line early to be first to board to ensure having room for my legally-sized carry-on in the overhead above my seat. I take note of anyone who puts luggage above the MCE seats and then goes on further to the back of the plane so that if there is a problem I am able to tell the flight attendant whose luggage was shoved into the MCE rows.
That may sound petty but it is just not right for people who are further back to take up forward space and cause deplaning delays when MCE passengers have to fight the tide to go to the back to retrieve their bags.
Regarding use of FC restrooms there is inconsistency among FAs which may contribute to Y passengers using FC restrooms. On some flights FAs say use the closest restroom regardless of class; other flights they say stay in your assigned cabin. There should be a consistent policy of using assigned cabin restrooms.
First class bins should be reserved for the F passengers and all of the FAs who stow their 4 bags each in them.
While we are hearing only his side of the story, it sounds exactly in line with what I would expect on AA when co fronted with one of their surly FAs. It is stupid that a pax gets kicked off for this because “he might not follow crew member instructions” but then just gets rebooked on the next flight out. Even he’s a safety risk if he’s not. FAs should be called to defense for these silly actions they take.
I wonder which overhead bin the passenger decided to go with after four hours of thinking about it before he boarded again.
The FA is in the wrong. If boarding is nearing the end passengers should secure their bags in any open overhead bin and be seated for on time departure. Sometimes when I’m in first class and there’s a ton of overhead space I’ll suggest to someone boarding late to use a first class bin. We want to arrive on time. Not 12 minutes behind schedule.
It’s depends on the phase of thr boarding process. Pre boarding and groups 1 to 5 should not use the first class overhead bins. If it is final boarding with group 9 , standby passengers , or late arriving passengers then you have flexibility to use the first class bins.
Let’s just stop with the overhead bins altogether and only allow bags that fit under the seat. That would solve the problem as well as expedite boarding and exiting. Not to mention give more head room to stand up. The amount of time wasted while waiting for everyone to put their crap up is ridiculous. Gate check it or pay. People get around the baggage fees by gate checking all the time. If you can’t afford to check your bag, don’t fly. Just saying.
Gary, you are wrong on this point. I usually board in Group 1 and I have seen, on many occasions, where Group 3/4 passengers will put their bags in Premium Economy zones as they are walking by, even though the plane has not completely boarded and only half the Premium Economy has seated.
Then, as the plane is landing, there is one person, who will push anyone out of the way to rush to retrieve his/her bag front the front of the plane. On my most recent flights with United, when the flight has been completely full, they have offered to gate check Group 5 passengers carry-on and let them board with Group 4.
On occasions, when I am flying First class, and I am paying/upgraded, I appreciate the privileges accorded the class and just because you are walking by, it does not entitle to enjoy the amenities. If you are the last to board and there is no space for your carry-on, just ask the FA for help, don’t assume you have the rights to do what you want.
Why is this even an issue? You are instructed to place carry-on bags under the seat in front of you or in the overhead compartment above YOUR seat. Follow instructions. Period.
Your bag goes above your seat, period.
I have on many occasions pulled someone’s bag out of the bin over my row and walk back to them and handed it to them. Put simply, if you stow your bag in a bend close to the front so that you can leave your seat near the back, cruise up the aisle, and grab your bag out of the bin on your way out of the plane, you are a douchebag.
The passenger in this story is an entitled dick. He should be thrown off the plane while it is in flight.
This also counts as involuntary denial of boarding. The airline actually has no reason to deny this passenger and now owes them money for the delay. I’d report it immediately and demand my money.
All the comments about “power drunk” and “surly” attendants. I fly multiple times a week on American. Only time I have ever seen an attendant is when passengers are deserving. I have witnessed passengers be compete “a-holes” to the flight attendant then play victim when escorted out. Especially innocent when they realize they are being filmed, or that they may end up on a no-fly list. Only exception are the drunk ones. They are defiant all they way out.
This is how I envision this really went down. Passenger was a group 5 passenger, or maybe a Gold or platinum member that didnt get upgraded, who got stuck in the back of the plane and not pleased with his seat assignment. When advised to take his bagage to the back with him, because there was plenty of room back there, he copped attitude. When he got back there he got surly with the other attendant and wanted what he deemed was justification that he was right. At that point he kept up with his verbal displeasure with the airline. Crew notified Captain that there was a disgruntled passenger who they deemed was going to be a continued problem for the duration of the flight. Just like the captain on a ship, the pilot is soley responsible for the safety and well being of ALL the passengers under their care aboard. Thats why the passenger was kicked off.
I side with the crew 100%. Anyone who doesnt like it, dont fly.
I only book first/business, and I pay for it (I don’t have any status or do upgrades). But, in recent years, instead of getting to enjoy a more leisurely boarding experience, I have to rush for a space at the front of the boarding queue to make sure I actually have space in the bin for my carry on bag. This could be on AA, United, or Delta. Too many economy pax think the open bins at the front are fair game for them, leaving me to have to walk far back to put my bag, then when time to deplane, I have to wait until nearly everyone else is off the plane for me to be able to retrieve my bag. And I paid thousand of $$ for that “privilege”? So, I have absolutely no sympathy for the dullard who gets kicked off for trying to use the first class bins. If you want a first class bin, book and pay for first class!
@Bruce Epstein – to all passengers… please learn to read. why have an attitude?
I don’t know why, but I sense there is more to this story than we’re hearing.
I have always stuck up for AA but I have to say they are using up my good will at a hectic pace. However, this story could just have easily been written for UA or DL as AA. On any day the chance of this happening is ripe.
That said, I pay to fly up front, and folks from the back stuffing their bags in the FC area is an irritation at best. Getting kicked off for trying it on? Not so sure about that. See first sentence.
The passenger was wrong and, though he complied after being confronted, he should have kept his mouth shut. Overhead space should be reserved for the people paying (a lot ) to sit in those seats (or people who fly so much that they get the status and free upgrades). Passengers should proceed to their seats and try to find overhead space in the vicinity. If there is none, let the FA know and s/he can decide to stow the bag up front. That said, the airline overreacted and wasted everyone’s time with the ejection, rather than just leaving it alone since the passenger had complied. The goal is to get bags stowed safely and properly and get the aircraft off the ground, not to teach people lessons.
GOOD! Thank you AA, let’s start holding people accountable for not following rule (listening Trump?).
” It’s common for coach passengers to stick bags up as soon as they find space, when boarding late in the process, “just in case.” ”
Common for entitled coach passengers, perhaps? I’ve flown often — not as much as someone who flies every single week, but often enough to have spent plenty of miles and hotel points in my life. I’ve never once tried to put something into a first class overhead when flying coach and I haven’t seen anyone I travel with do it, either.
Unless you’re so late in the process you can clearly see people struggling to find space in overhead bins, you take your bag to your seat before looking, because that’s where it’s handiest, least likely to be tampered with, easiest to grab when getting out (no forgetting where it is), etc. If you start leaving it other places, you forget which spot you used this particular flight…
I do feel terribly sorry for the unfortunate few AA F/A who actually love their jobs and bring great service and hospitality to the cabin everyday and get lumped in with these F/A who constantly have to make a big deal out of nothing, and turn it into a power trip about themselves
If the Captain did not come out of the cockpit and actually speak with the pax, then it could be deems his actions to remove the pax failed to meet the standards of 49 USC § 44902.
Most of us know, that typically when there are issues such as this, the pilot will come have a conversation with the pax, and then judged for himself.
Just my view from the Cheap Seats……….
I’ve been flying 52 years. Overhead bins are shared space. Yes, F/C & B/C should use those buns accordingly but if there is an empty bin no matter where passengers are allowed to use them. Sounds like someone was looking for trouble that day. The man shouldn’t have been talked to like that or removed.
Lynette – bags only under the seat? Let me guess, you’re 4’11”? A dwarf? Those of us that are actually human size need the space under the seat for our feet.
You ignorant hobbit.
Walter – Why sling insults? I happen to be 5’10”. It’s a shame that we cannot post our comments without someone posting juvenile insults. I expected better admin review from VFTW. What a shame.
This is idiotic
Lynnette – I’m insulting you because you made a moronic suggestion and deserve the response you got. And then you go crying oh poor widdle me, someone protect me…. Shut up.
There’s something that has only been touched on and that I’d there is the possibility this “innocent guy” had an ulterior motive. I think that he wasn’t happy with being booked in the back of the plane, all due to circumstances he probably was responsible for. I’d bet most of the readers have encountered people like him “When The Plane landed”. They were the ones that when the plane touched down, barged their way down the isle, pushing and shoving people who were getting their luggage, so he could get his to his bags from 1st class and then disembark from the plane first. I’ve encountered these self centered narcissistic jerks not to think this guy might have been one of them.
How did we get so far away from something like this from the FA? “May I help you find space near your seat? This first class bin is reserved for flight attendant luggage and for first class passengers when there’s space left over.”
My guess is that the passenger used profanity towards the flight attendant which is a big no go. Both sides need to show respect and there should be no problems. Just ask would it be ok before stowing. FA’s are under so much pressure at boarding time and not getting paid until the door is closed.
There is likely more to this story.
Flight Attendants don’t just serve food and beverages, we are also tasked with protecting passengers and ensuring the people who board the airplane are not going to become unruly or threatening.
The minute boarding starts we are evaluating each person to see if they may be a problem.
We can’t kick a passenger off the plane but the Captain may take that action if a passenger does not follow instructions or has a seriously bad attitude.
1st class overheads are for 1st class and if there is any unused space it is kept in reserve for late boarders or when coach bins become full.
That happens to often in America with old rude union employees.
All Asia airlines never have problem cause is good job they nice, helpfull. Do there job , all in uniform .
Has anyone had problem with, Japan, tiwan, philipean airline.
There are many wonderful flightcattendants out there working very hard. However there are a few female flight attendants that have the personality of a Gestapo Agent from World War II and these are the ones that get people ejected from flight because they want to wield their power over people especially men. This is why I stopped flying unless it is a death emergency.
Flight Attendants don’t try to cause problems..It’s most always the passenger who is non-compliant and rude..
It’s become a huge problem and it needs to stop..
Arrogant passengers are a huge danger to everyone on the plane…Remove them!!!
The passenger Eff’d around and FOUND OUT. Don’t take something that someone else paid for and then mouth off and argue with the FA who is just doing their job too. He is lucky he only got delayed by 4 hours!
DON’T FLY AMERICAN AIRLINE, IS THE WORSE IN THE BUSINESS.
This was an unresonable action by the flight attendant and by defacto, AA. They are trying to silence passenger freedom of speak and expression. Nothing indicated the passenger was out of line or non-compliant. AA should compensate this passenger for the forced delay.
He should have tried to find a space in economy before grabbing space in First. Maybe she could/should have been more tactful in asking him to move it, maybe not, but I can see that if he was angry/aggressive about the request it could have made the crew nervous about having him on board.
Even taken at face value and assuming the situation played out exactly as told, leaving out no extra conversations, arguments, or colorful language, the passenger decided it was a good idea to challenge the reasonable directive of the flight attendant on at least two occasions. Do they want to have the same conversation about not using the FC lav too, in the middle of the flight, where it’s not as easy to unload a passenger who doesn’t seem to able to process common sense and/or simple instructions. Is this guy going to be one of those who just HAS to take his bag during an emergency evacuation?
Point is, flight attendant gave a simple instruction and his immediate impulse was to argue about it. I can absolutely see why the crew wouldn’t want this guy on their plane.
It’s obvious to me that the passenger is use to traveling on SWA where the boarding announcements generally say “take any open seat and available bin space.”
Also good that AA didn’t use UAL style corporal punishment for the offending act but instead gave him “time out” to think about his “non-compliant” actions. “No soup for you” sir, enjoy your airport appreciations time. Some people fly to DFW just to enjoy the airport . . . lounges.
Nothing more annoying than passenger in 20C deliberately placing their bags in first bins causing 1st class to have to place their bags halfway down the plane and having to wait till THE WHOLE PLANE TO DEBOARD to retrieve it. ITS A TRASH MOVE BY THIS MORON and a common complaint by 1st class passengers.
As a FA myself one of my pet peeves is people leaving stuff in front and heading to the back. This causes people sitting there to have to stow their bags farther back and delays deplaning. It’s rude. If I see it I’ll correct this behavior. If you don’t comply I’ll grab it, check it and bring you the tag.
Likely won’t kick you off unless you’re a hole.
I tend to believe the FA. IN 35 years of flying 3days a week. I very seen enough poor decision making by aggressive passengers.
Stephen – overinflated ego much? You’re a sky waitress, nothing more.
Could Walter be a bigger douchebag? Live and let live much, Walter? You’re the exact kind of angry a-hole that delays a flight because a flight attendant was doing their job. Take a Xanax and chill the F out, Walter.
Great.
Let’s enforce the rule the front cabin lavatory bis just for first class.
I’m tired of paying so much extra and having to wait because coach Karen is in line with her 2little monsters.
You fly coach get the coach amenities, and respect the first class amenities.
I don’t feel the passenger did anything wrong. He questioned authority; the rules but, still abidded by the rules. He asked what his rights were and moved his bag. Since, when aren’t we allowed to speak up in America or, have freedom of speech or, our own opinions?
Like usual, my guess the FA and passenger could both have chosen better alternatives on how they handled this. A FAs job is not easy. The high percenttage are great. But just like police officers, while the high majority are great and fo a wonderful job, there is also the rare bad apple every once in a while who likes to exert their “power” unreasonably over us minons.
You want to use the first class storage then buy a first class ticket. Just because there was space in the first class storage that does not mean you can use it. That’s like saying I sat in the first class seat because it was empty.
Sounds like American is using TSA agents for flight attendants.
If the bins are full all bets are off? Have you seen 1st class fares? I fly first class and you’re God damned right I expect my overhead space. No apologies.
If he would have just asked if it ok before doing it ,things would have turned out so differently ..People at the bulkhead have to use those bins for everything too!!
I can see why pilot thought he might be a problem. Was he going to go through a list of rules to see how far he could push it? He was not allowed to put bag in 1st class, so put it where u should and sit down so plane can take off.
Lynette. You are right. People who throw out gratuitous insults on line are just cowardly bullies trying to show how tuff they are.
Problem is a lot of people are bringing too many carryons on the plane
Then you have people, like this one, stowing their items far from where they sit – and not in their class of passage
Then you also have people putting a jacket or purse or some small item in the bin which they can place either on their lap or under the seat, freeing up bin space
Further, I personally think that you should only be allowed to place your items in the bin above your assigned seat, if this were enforced, it would solve problems like this – as he is not the only one who places their items away from where they are seated – and it would also reduce the amount of carryons, as, if your items don’t fit in the bin above your seat, then they will be removed and late checked to the belly of the plane
Finally, they need to board, starting with boarding from the back forward and deplaning from the front back, with the exception of persons with tight connections able to deplane first
No airline uses flight attendants as TSA agents but it is also true that they diffuse conflict and are the last defense against someone storming the flight deck door.
Passengers get on the plane and are generally clueless about the circumstances and don’t realize that it takes a TEAM to keep them safe and comfortable. That means airline crews working with TSA.
After 9/11 FAs were instrumental in stopping terrorists but they also are on the lookout for human trafficking, weapons, drug smuggling and more.
Would you want to sit next to this guy if he wasn’t removed and started behaving badly at his seat?
Someone like that who disrespects the FAs is not going to respect his fellow passengers.
Once airborne, everyone is stuck with him unless he gets violent and the pilots land.
I blame the airlines for the mess that they created with their carryon.baggage policy. Passengers try.to bring oversized baggage into the cabin to save on the extra charge that the airlines apply as a new revenue stream. These large suite cases should not be allowed as carryon. The cabin crew are then left with the task of solving the shortage of overhead baggage space in the short time between boarding and pushback.
Almost certainly much more to this story. The comments, though, are precious. From this doesn’t happen on Asian airlines (yeah, it does) to everyone should just use the under seat space? (I always do myself for anything that fits, reserving the overhead space for things that don’t, but that’s my choice doesn’t need to be a “rule” – I prefer to have my things where I can mess with them in fight is all, and I’m not especially tall, either.).
If boarding was nearly complete with only 1 seat remaining in FC, who cares. Another FA on a power trip. Bring back the 80s when there was smoking onboard, everyone got along and FAs weren’t beeches.
Kevin – you born a bootlicker or was there a class?
If you look at Walter’s comments, it sounds like he was the passenger kicked off the plane. What a douchebag you are Walter. You deserved to be kicked off and you can lick my boots you crybaby puss.
Awwww DrD, show me where your daddy touched you?
Good comeback Walter. Are you projecting from something personal? And it was your ugly whore of a mother that touched me…for $20. Still overpaid
Walter – I’m not sure why you had to descend into useless criticism and name calling?
Possibly you were the one removed from that flight?
If so, or if it was someone equally distasteful, it would prove the FAs and the Captain were correct in their actions.
It is unfortunate that we all have to deal with people like you on a daily basis.
Civil courtesy, in person and online, go a long way toward improving everyone’s experience of the world.
I’ve seen FA’s tell a coach passenger to go ahead and use the 1st class bin since the others were full. They need to be consistent.
These flight attendants too frequently bring the bad behavior onto themselves with their own bad behavior. They are not entitled to deference. On the contrary, they are entitled to reap what they sew with their all-too-frequent sour attitudes and lack of hospitality. FA should have been more constructive and less obnoxious. AA should compensate this passenger just as a restaurant or hotel would if an obnoxious staff member dealt with them in a less than hospitable manner. They are not entitled to be less than hospitable toward guests on the aircraft by virtue of their uniforms.