A passenger on American Airlines flight 91 from London Heathrow to Chicago on Sunday says that they found themselves in an altercation with the woman seated behind them, whom they dubbed a “Karen.”
The top tier Executive Platinum member redeemed 27,000 AAdvantage miles to fly home on the new Boeing 787-9P in economy after a 72 hour visit to London for a wedding. They were seated in an aisle seat in regular economy – not even extra legroom Main Cabin Extra. He was exhausted and reclined his seat slightly. But something seemed wrong with the brand new aircraft? No, it was the woman behind him, a “mid-50s Karen” who was fighting him on recline because it was intruding on her space to work.
SLAM. My seat rockets forward like it’s spring-loaded. “New plane, maybe a mechanical issue?” I think, trying again. SLAM.
I turn around to discover I’ve apparently disturbed the natural habitat of a mid-50s Karen who informs me that her “work” is infinitely more important than my need for sleep. Because nothing says “critical business operations” like a cramped economy seat on a transatlantic flight.
He sought out help from a flight attendant who, he says,
- thanked him for his loyalty as an Executive Platinum member
- Offered help.
The flight attendant reportedly tried to reason with the other passenger, but she declared him “childish” for involving crew in the dispute and refused “to even let the [flight attendant] demonstrate the recline because she “will not tolerate” such an egregious assault on her workspace.”
So the flight attendant offered a solution – moving him to an empty seata in premium economy. The woman behind him was apoplectic: she “practically shrieks that SHE should get the upgrade since she needs ‘more space to work.'”
Freed of the passenger reclining back into her, the man now in premium economy says she “‘worked’ for exactly 20 more minutes before giving up entirely.” I’m not sure I’d have gone back to monitor her, to be honest. I’d have just taken the win. Although it seems to me that American should have upgraded the Executive Platinum member into premium economy if there was an empty seat.
However, he applauds American for doing “something right” and wanted to highlight it, saying he was “10/10 [happy to] get bullied by a Karen again if it means free upgrades.”
Seat recline is important for passengers on long flights with poorly-padded seats. Recline works to distribute passenger weight and reduce back stress. Reclining is also a basic right when it’s a feature of your seat (certain airlines like Spirit and Frontier feature seats they call “pre-reclined” i.e. that do not recline).
- A passenger controls their own seat
- Airlines ban the Knee Defender device, which prevents recline – a device was designed to stop reclining. While their interest is prevent damage to the seat, they do not allow the passenger seated behind to interfere with the recline function
There is an etiquette to exercising your right to recline, though. Don’t recline during mealtime. Try not to recline unless it serves a real purpose (if it doesn’t actually benefit your comfort, don’t recline).
Ultimately you need to buy the space that you want, ask politely that passengers around you conform to norms, and if they don’t get a crewmember involved. You can also consider a Coasian solution: you each have an initial set of rights and they can impede on each other’s preferences, so find a (cash) bargain.
What a (inset descriptive here). So sick of entitled people thinking that nothing matters but themselves. Anymore I call out the bad behavior directly and unapologetically.
If I were that FA I would have found the one child on the obsessed with kicked the seat in front of them and seated them right behind Karen. She needs to be held accountable for her behavior and shown what inconvenience looks like.
Reminds me of that story about a young model complaining saying “I refuse to sit next to an unattractive old person,” so the airline upgraded that unattractive old person to first class.
Someone named Karen was complaining about the ‘Karen meme’ on another recent post. Hope she sees this one and is frustrated again. Teehee.
The right move – get the crew involved
And kudos to that flight attendant
Ultimately, this is AA’s fault. Why? Because they have so limited personal space that the act of someone slamming their seat into your lap to “rest” becomes an unprovoked attack. I usually revel in ridiculing Karens, but in this case, I’d push back on the guy too, as a survival instinct.
But ultimately, it’s AA’s greed that causes this. It’s an 8-9 hour flight, so this is a significant issue.
Economy seats are NOT made for working on a laptop. So if working on your laptop is that important buy PE or Business. If he’s an EXP another fail on that fact that he should have been upgraded into any empty PE seat. Another reason NEVER, EVER depend upon a GA doing the right thing. Know what’s open so that you can go up to the GA point out that a PE seat is open and at least will they come get you onboard if it remains open. (Not sure how that works but presumably if there’s another EXP with a higher 12 month trailing spend they’d get that seat).
There is no free upgrade from economy to PE (or PE to Biz) on transatlantic flights for EXP or any other “normal” status. (Not speaking for CK.) That’s never been a policy. (Although you could use 500 mile coupons back in the day.) My son has gotten upgrades on BA on BA metal as a BA Silver, but that seems to have involved either weight balancing or oversold situations. With AA, you want an upgrade, you pay.
@George
This was an international flight, have you ever held elite status on a US airline before? Complimentary upgrades are typically only within North America, except for certain situations for operational reasons.
Happy to help educate 🙂
Plot twist. Lady was his wife and this is a hack to get an upgrade for one of them. Roles were reversed on the out bound. 2 different PNRs also.
Had an experience in FC on United where the fellow behind him kept kicking my seat
I did not engage with him
Got the the FA and explained situation
The offender said he was tall and needed the full length to stretch out
I hadn’t reclined my seat
Kickin stopped- thanked flight attendant
Too many rude people about today
I think it is unconscionable for the blogging public to persist in using someone’s name as a diatribe. Please don’t keep perpetuating this.
I agree with 1990 (a certain location has just frozen over), good use of the term “Karen”.
@Mike P — And hell will indeed freeze over because I’m all for #47 ending Iran as we know it, directly or indirectly. Unless that is, you’re one of these JD Vance noninterventionist losers.
@1990
A big problem is the US is too weak. Unlike Star Trek, where they can blast away and win within 45 minutes, America cannot. America is stronger than most countries but still cannot takeover a country unless the country has less than a million people, like Grenada. America cannot cause Iran to forget how to build the bomb, either.
How did he know her name was Karen? Did she introduce herself?
Gary!; your suggestion of cash compensation to settle the matter contributes to the “:Ugly ignorant of manners American that buys everything with money” reputation, that generates rejection in the rest of the world.
1990, I’m sure there are many folks among the 90 or so million people in Iran who disagree completely with the religious extremists running the country just as there are millions here who are not in favor of a ignorant Felon running the US. So before you endorse the annihilation of another country, make sure you are prepared to take the considerable fallout when it arrives at your doorstep.
Not exactly sure what that has to do with Karen’s inconsiderate behavior though. Other than to demonstrate there are entitled a$$holes in abundance on all American airlines these days.
An aircraft is for travel, your seat, regardless of class is not your office. If you can’t work on your flight for whatever reason than it sucks to be you. Deal with it in your mind but leave me and MY seat out of your solution. Delta 3 million miler
I’m a softie, but I usually look behind me to see what the situation is. If in doubt, I inform the person I’m going to recline. I will insist if it’s important to me, but I won’t be obnoxious about it. I want to try to make the world less stressful, not more stressful.
It is not the Karen’s problem, it is the airline’s. They know most of us will not care if we have 4 inches of seat separation and are stacked double-deck in the normal airplanes.
They force us to lift 40-pound “carry-ons” into the coat rack above a seat rather than storing them for us in the luggage hold built into every airliner, even though it dramatically increases boarding and deplaning times. And gets them an additional 20% of the airfare.
The whole idea of making coach as unpleasant, almost unbearable as possible is to get us to spend from three times to six times as much to get into “business” or “first”.
The complainer is correct — even a slight recline is a disaster to the person behind, particularly when working on a computer.
The person insisting on reclining seems just as entitled as the lady who insisted she had work to do and wanted them to not recline. Both people had legitimate needs and the person reclining seemed to start with the assumption that their need was important, and that the other person’s wasn’t as important. I would prefer seats that don’t recline so that this issue doesn’t arise.
Hey Tom Mariner… buy more space or charter your own jet, you entitled jerk. And check your luggage if you don’t want to be forced into hefting 40 pounds above your head. Or don’t fly at all. Take a bus. Or a boat.
Even AA domestic first is a problem to work if passenger in front reclines. My experience – you can’t even open or close the tray table without person raising seat. For regualar coach – airlines should lock to have no recline – the the rows in front of exit rows. Solution is maybe pre-fix all coach seats with a slight incline and lock it in place.
Agree though – don’t expect to be able to use a laptop in coach on an international flight.
My hat’s off to that AA flight attendant and the way they handled the situation. This should be a teaching moment for all of the other flight attendants out there at AA. Good job.