Alaska Airlines flight 1080 from Washington Dulles to San Francisco suffered a delay on Monday after the plane’s pilot and co-pilot got into an argument – and the captain walked off the aircraft. The Captain actually announced to passengers that he wasn’t getting along with his co-worker.
The end of his "apology" pic.twitter.com/V48CSPMMHa
— Goodnight, Texas (@Goodnight_Texas) July 18, 2022
continued, @AlaskaAir there goes your pro pilot, off into the sunset pic.twitter.com/Yrw4VnvzF2
— CDC MUSIC FACTORY (@iwillbeamyouup) July 18, 2022
The already-delayed flight, thanks to weather, was pushed back another couple of hours as the airline looked for another pilot for the Airbus A320. The replacement pilot received applause when he finally arrived. The flight wound up delayed by 3 hours in total, but made up a half hour of that in the air.
While the unprofessionalism of crew was to blame for the inconvenience, the Captain was actually right to leave. He explained the decision was ‘in the interest of safety.’ If he couldn’t operate the aircraft safely due to his temper or temperament he absolutely should leave the aircraft. One passenger described the pilot as “fuming.”
(HT: Paddle Your Own Kanoo)
I’d rather be delayed than dead because 2 adults couldn’t put their differences aside once airborne.
As captain, he should have told the co-pilot to sit down, shut up and do as I tell you. End of story.
He is the captain.
Re: “I’m the captain, do as I say.”
That line of thinking has killed people on flights. There are crashes attributed to the junior crew knowing the captain is screwing up but afraid / unwilling to speak up.
Most airlines have some form of CRM: Crew Resource Management.
Flying is now a team sport.
While airborne for example, there is Pilot Flying and Pilot Observing. One pilot is in control of the aircraft and, one pilot is double checking and doing other tasks. The two pilots regularly flip the roles. (Different airlines have different systems)
Something else happened.
Wonder what it was?
@Alan–the problem may have been that the co-pilot would not sit down, shut up, and do as s/he was told.
@Alan The first few words most of us learned to speak were probably mama, dada, or something similar, and the word “no” was somewhere probably in the top 5 words that most humans have spoken from birth.
So do you think just because someone says, “I’m the captain” that all was going to shake out? We’ve been defiant from birth.
It’s a cockpit, not the military…
CRM is a good thing and I actually applaud the pilot for leaving. Disagreements and tension in the cockpit is dangerous. Some airlines have a computerized system where pilots can actually file a list of names of who they do not wish to fly with, just because of this sort of thing. Folks, this is a real danger and I applaud this pilot. And yes, I was a commercial pilot.
The all time worst story about crew disagreement occurred in World War 2 when three men were flying an observation blimp out of Los Angeles. The two pilots had a long running personality conflict. They landed and very tight lipped told their crewman to get out. He did and the others took off, presumably to settle something. After a while the blimp drifted back to shore. Empty.
Anyone that shaves their head is bad news.
Who banged who’s wife?
YOu know what? Good for the captain. I agree with Bob. Even if the flight were a far shorter duration, I put faith in the captain knowing himself or knowing enough to know in re to safety that there was something about that co-pilot that put people at risk or himself. Maybe it was a personal issue, or maybe he knew about the guy’s personality or ethics. I’m recently retired from the social work field. It was only in my departing phase after 30+ years at an agency dealing with aging adults that I discovered the immaturity and spitefulness of an individual who came to us as a student intern and was ultimately hired. Some years back. I worked respectfully and cooperatively with this person as necessary through the years, though she would never be someone I would care to socialize with. As I prepared for the day I would actually depart I was both clearing an accumulation of personally owned belongings while leaving files and related materials in good condition and easily accessible to the next person who would be taking over my role. When I returned one day to “finish up” I was greeted by this immature individual snickering about how they had “cleaned things up a bit”. I had deliberately made a trip to make sure our director, feet away from her with an open door, was given a particular file related to some logo work. I knew exactly where I left it. Another co worker was already sitting in the office and appeared to have taken the space. And moved the bare minimum of office furnishings around. The file sorter on top of a small file cabinet where this file was, was missing. WHen I asked about it the only response this so called social worker, who is an adult, and working under the other somewhat, was to say like a 2 year old “I don’t know.” She put forth enough effort to look in the top file drawer in a fake attempt to appear helpful. This drawer was empty as well as UNlocked. It had held at least 80 confidential client files that were to be kept locked at all times. But nobody knew where they were or what happened to them. It caused me so much stress and concern especially on behalf of those who had put their trust and faith IN ME. I went so far since our director chose to do nothing when I had immediately reported this to her, to contact HER supervisor. I have no idea if this inspired the response or not, or if it is even truthful, but about 2 weeks later she communicated that she didn’t know (duh?) what the files looked like, could I describe them? They were ordinary manilla file folders with the name of clients and their phone and address on the tabs. Rocket Science 101? Within a few days time she reported she believed she had found them. Miraculously they showed up in the same cabinet drawer where they had been to begin with. We are supposed to be licensed professionals. Would I want to have to fly with any of these irresponsible immature people to depend on? NO way. So again I say good for the captain, and to the higer ups, keep an eye out and ear open on that co-pilot.
Would love to know what the difference’s were over. That said it takes two to cause a fight. Yes, if the Captain feels they can’t work as a team he shouldn’t take off however…… it’s also his job to be the adult in a conflict if the the FO can’t be. I spent about half my 42 year career as an Airline Pilot as a Captain and can honestly say I never had a personal problem or argument with anyone. I was friends with some co workers and just tolerated others but I never had a major disagreement in the cockpit, even when union issues were a hot button topic during contract talks. Obviously I flew with all manor of personalities, however I never felt it was my job to judge their personal choices at the expense of cockpit harmony. It’s not that hard to just say I don’t argue religion, politics or whatever in the cockpit and put the focus on what you do have in common…….a common goal of safely flying an airliner from point A to point B.
That said I’m retired and these are extraordinary times of cumulative pressures on a lot of people so who knows what these guys are going through in their personal lives. Everyone has a breaking point and everyone can be an arse at some point in their lives.
(Loved the blimp story from ww2!)
I should also emphasize that it is the height of unprofessionalism to argue religion or politics in the cockpit. Perhaps it should be included in an airlines op specs.
6.5 paragraph b…..no crewmember will engage in a political discussion to the point of disagreement for longer then 5 seconds or ever state his or her religion is the right one and someone else’s is the wrong one. Breaking this rule could result in disciplinary action up to and including termination…….
( this is tongue in cheek for you reactionary folks!)
To Robin Rosner: I’d be inclined to read your post if you broke your monolith into, say, 8-10 paragraphs.
Your not reading it doesn’t bother me in the least. I’m not and don’t care to be a student of writing or English.
Hope breaking this into sentences helps you to comprehend.
I do not care if you read this or any response as is your right. Move on. And stay out of my flight deck.
This is so the small stuff. I am caring for 2 elder adults. One is going on 100 and has dementia and is in hospice; the other is a very active but demanding 105 year old who leaves messes he cannot see and is deaf. And you think I am going to care about your telling me how to write when I take a quick break while awaiting the arrival of a hospice worker? Nope.
I’m surprised that the captain didn’t kick the FO off the flight rather than leaving himself.
I flew with a captain that was so bad that he would swear at you all day in front of passengers. This was in a twin Cessna, so there was just a curtain between us and the passengers. After he threatened to call ahead to the next airport and have me arrested for hijacking, I decided to never fly with him again. The only thing I ever learned from him was how NOT to treat my crew.
Yes, he really did threaten to have me arrested. It would have been funny, but I really needed that job.
That must have been quite a dispute. I wonder which pilot was the election denier.
I have inside scoop on this…
Both pilots disagreed over which Care Bear they were going to be for the flight, both wanted to be Funshine bear but then it got nasty and the First Officer told the Captain he should be Grumpy Bear, that was when the Captain stormed out of the cockpit saying he was Funshine Bear but then the passengers said “oh no you’re Grumpy Bear”, so off he went into the sunset. Luckily Cheer Bear was just around the corner and was able to save the day.
Cheer Bear and Funshine Bear loved flying together, so much so that they even made up 30 minutes of the original delay. Yay Cheer Bear and Funshine Bear, boo Grumpy Bear!
It’s better to be pissed off than pissed on.
Regardless of the reason to exit the plane. The Captain was in the right to leave. There is absolutely no reason to continue the assignment with an unresolved dispute with your colleague.
What almost all of you- Gary- fail to realize is you can’t just ignore your co-pilot. S/he is as vital to the flight as the CA is.
You’re already delayed, you’re not in any position to make that up so rather than cause a problem. He left.
@Gary is a bit dramatic at saying he hates the pilot that much. Perhaps if anyone knew with concrete certainty WHY he left, perhaps. Maybe his family member died and the FO is SFO basd and was pushing for him to go.
You don’t know and neither do we.
Many years ago I had an old line captain tell me “son, do you know what those 3 stripes stand for”, GEAR UP, FLAPS UP, SHUT UP. Thankfully CRM became embraced by the airlines for the benefit of everyone. The Captain was right for not flying and putting safety first.
While the delay sucks, the captain did the right thing putting safety first. He realized he did not have the composure to fly and did not want to put anyone in jeopardy. He did the right thing.
Probably a liberal snowflake that didn’t like a differing opinion.
@John – my guess is you are correct, this was likely about politics. Unfortunately, we have become so polarized that it can cause these kinds of problems. I agree that the correct decision was made to change crew members, as opposed to flying with 2 pilots that can’t work together in a safe manner.
You can’t make this stuff up. Does the cockpit crew receive regular mental health checks? The idea that a commercial pilot has no more control over his emotions than a small child is absolutely chilling. Shameful behaviour; I hope they fire this guy immediately. But that will never happen, we wouldn’t want to deprive him of his rights to express himself when he’s upset, would we?
@huey judy Being as though there is a shortage of pilots these days, this pilot can probably do as he damn well pleases and they’ll deal with it because they have no choice.
That’s the beauty of being in demand when the world has a short supply of your talent.
And for what it’s worth, I’m okay with the pilot leaving the plane. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want some angry, pissed off pilot, carrying myself and my family through the sky sitting next to the person who has triggered said anger.
Having worked for nine (9) airlines, some dating back to the “good ol’ days”, I’m going with CHRIS. Good call CHRIS.
I’ve had a few of both Captains and Co-pilots (and a Flight Engineer who I think gargled with garlic juice every morning) that I either bid around or requested a line change if paired for a month. It’s too good of a gig to put up with a jerk . . . even if I’m him. Alaska Captain’s idea was Sterling but his execution was shit.
@drrichard. Not too many folks know the story about the Navy blimp that finally drifted on shore and “landed” in Daly City, CA.. That particular gondola was rebuilt and was used by a certain tire company on one of their airships for many years. It wasn’t the one based in Culver City, CA. In the employment of that certain tire company, I flew the “ghost ship” for two years. There is a website devoted to the Ghost Ship. I never met Lt Cody or Ensign Adams while flying N10A. But as above, my money would be on the explanation that CHRIS offered.
We don’t know if this was political or not, but given the turn towards Q-anon, election lies and conspiracy theories some are taking in this country it would certainly have to be a possibility….
There is well written memoir by Chris Manno, retired AA. He describes his DC 10 F/O days as flying with some real oddballs. He wrote….
“Many were on their third wives, some their fourth. I got a lot of quirky lectures on dubious political, historical and even religious theories. That was almost a pilot norm: not really thinking, but simply pontificating. Most of what they “knew” was a bricolage of right wing rhetoric they’s heard on a conservative talk radio show or read in a right-wing political publication. Basically, they parroted-often to each other-the skewed socio-political rants of their favorite extremists. I tuned out, spending daylight hours hiding behind my sunglasses, nodding occasionally…”
The author handled it well. The bottom line is arguing politics on the flight deck takes two to create an issue. Whatever seat you are sitting in it’s your job not to escalate some guys oddball ideas. A pilots job requires you to deal to deal with whatever abnormal situation arrises and do it effectively. Whether it’s a mechanical issue, weather related or crewmember issues. You get paid the big bucks to deal with the problems, not the easy stuff. The bottom line is though, the Captain is ultimately responsible for the final outcome.
.
@Ex-UA Plat you are absolutely right…That was the cause of the Santa Bárbara Airlines Flight 518 (Venezuela), the first officer was an Embry-Riddle graduate and was clearly aware of the situation.. the captain didn’t listen.
Yep, Ex UA is exactly right…the UAL DC 8 at PDX, KLM at Tenerife. Korean Air at Guam, the list goes on and on. Very few dinosaurs left in the industry that actually think like what Alan said…I have to wonder if he was fishing for a response rather than actually believing that?
Without knowing the details I applaud the Captain for walking off and refusing to compromise the safety of the flight by remaining as part of this Crew. Passenger inconvenience due to the delay was unfortunate but more than likely both Pilots will be hearing from the Chief Pilot and HR to discuss what happened and Why. (For all we know it was a situation where He/She goes or I get Off and the Company got involved and made the decision to replace the Captain with who may be available to fill the position based on resources. Not all destinations are Crew Bases where people are readily available)
Pilots are humans. Some are oil and water together. Over a 40 year airline career, I found 1 (one) fellow pilot I could not work with. I informed the airline I would not work with him. He was well known as a “problem”. One day I was told on short notice to report to a flight I was not scheduled for (it happens). I boarded the already loaded flight and walked to the flight deck. There he sat. I said hello, and walked off the plane. You do not want to sit in a metal tube traveling 600 mph flown by two people who cannot work as a team. That’s life.
As an invalued Milage Plan member, I couldve gotten an easy 2500 miles out of this…..and thats just for starters…..