On June 9, blogger JT Genter was kicked off of American Airlines flight AA106 from New York JFK to London Heathrow for moving a flight attendant’s bags out of the premium economy overhead bins and into coach.
He says he mistakenly believed the bag belonged to a coach passenger, that nobody in premium economy claimed it, and that the bin signs say the space is for premium economy only so he was acting in good faith. Genter also relays that the supervisor who removed him explained that flight attendants insisted he be ejected – and that they wouldn’t work the flight if he was allowed to travel. American acknowledged the incident, and even compensated him with miles for what happened.
The flight attendant whose bag was moved responded in the comments to my story about this.
They offered few specifics about the interaction, and I was skeptical of their narrative, but they argued that the blogger was removed because he represented a threat to the aircraft.
The real reason he was removed was because he indicated that he did not have to comply with crew member instructions, basically defying me and 3 other flight attendants. Mr. Genter indicated to me, the purser and 2 other flight attendants that he did not have to follow the rules and there was nothing we could do about it.
I think it is reasonable to expect that this defiant and non compliant behavior would continue after take off. That is a problem not only for the security of the flight but also for the financial bottom line of my company. If he chose to remain non compliant and an incident arose with him inflight we would have been forced to divert to another airport to remove him there, costing the airline and the passengers money and time. In consultation with the captain and corporate security we determined that it was prudent to have Mr. Genter removed to avoid disrupting the otherwise normal operation of this flight.
Here is JT Genter’s response:
If this is a statement from the actual flight attendant, this is a slam dunk defamation case. The flight attendant cannot prove these claims, and I have audio recording of the incident that proves these claims are false.
That’s why these claims are being made in a non-verified forum (a blog comment section where you can list any name you want when commenting). If any of the crew members wants to make these claims on the record, I will respond accordingly.
It’s worth noting that American Airlines continues to decline to comment in the crew member’s defense. So, it’s seems the airline knows the crew’s actions were out of line. And it’s possible that the crew member is already facing disciplinary action based on internal reporting by the gate supervisor who was a party to the situation and listened to the audio recording.
In fact, I have more information about the commenter than just a name they chose to leave. In any case, I asked Genter to release the recordings he says he has of the interactions, but he declined offering:
I want to engage legal advice before I share it to make sure I’m covered. And I’m not going to have the opportunity to get that for at least a few more days…
There’s no question, JT should have asked a crewmember for assistance or taken space in an overhead bin in coach or business class, not:
- assume that it was a passenger’s bag from coach, since no one identified it as their bag when he asked in the cabin
- move it on his own, on the argument that the bins say they are for premium economy passengers only so the bag belonged in economy and that’s where he was going to put it
- leave the bag in a bin where it didn’t fit
At the same time, American Airlines crew should have de-escalated the situation. Instead, they escalated it. And, if JT’s version is correct, threatened not to work the flight if he wasn’t removed from the aircraft. That alone if accurate should be grounds for dismissal.
No joke, this is the distraction we all need from world events.
JT most likely had an alcohol issue that day (SIX hours in the lounge) and the release of the tapes would perhaps lead him to banned from AA. His behavior was appalling and his entitled attitude worse. Moving bags that do not belong to you without consent is “taking possession and control” and under NY law is theft.
If the tapes “cleared” him he would release them, it is much more likely they implicate him badly.
By choosing to make a big deal out of this, JT is causing harm to AA (needlessly in my opinion) and probably deserves a ban.
I don’t understand what this dude’s goal is here, other than maybe to score a few social media points. AA is going to do absolutely zilch, nada, zip, nothing about the situation. Other than maybe send him a form letter.
Seasoned flyers know two things. Want your bag over your head be ready to board when you’re group is called. Don’t argue with flight attendants or gate agents because they hold the power. Only exception would be if you feel there’s a present serious safety issue. Like smoke and fire coming out of an engine.
And a seasoned AA flyer knows now that the club staff (AC and FL) no longer have the power they did in years back. The idea that they could get you a last minute cash upgrade, assuming there is an empty seat, is really laughable. They can’t even do reroutes that well.
I don’t understand JT’s claim that he asked everyone in PE if they owned the bag prior to moving it. Wouldn’t that be quite a few people to ask. What if someone was in the bathroom or had headphones on? This part of the story alone doesn’t make sense.
this is sort like the CA senator saying “I just wanted to ask a question” why did they handcuff me?
the senator barged in, had forceful body language, and failed to identify himself until challenged
JT (likely under the influence) arrived late, demanded privileges he was NOT entitled to, refused to compromise and became belligerent.
‘I too would have removed him from the flight as a safety issue.
Entitlement needs to be smashed. He had no problem touching anyone else’s stuff, but if someone moved his, he would go into hysterics. He should be banned from AA and any other airline that is willing to stop ride passengers from destroying the flight experience for others. He should not have been compensated at all. Tired of all the Brads and Karens destroying everyone else’s experience.
JT should no longer call themselves a travel blogger of any real expertise…..HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER. He writes about the etiquette….and what will get them thrown off an aircraft.
He was entitled….drunk and the worst aircraft passenger. Regardless of tapes, as you mention in the post….YOU NEVER MOVE bags on your own. He arrived late and after everyone, acted like an entitled princess.
He should be removed from all travel blogger roles…..his credibility is ZERO!
JT was not under the influence or acting out of line in any way. He’s mature, respectable, unfailingly polite and of incredibly high class and grace. Anyone who comes into conflict with him is automatically wrong.
I’m pretty sure FAs are prohibited from assisting with passenger carry on baggage so asking the FA to move the bag is not very realistic. If they state they would have moved the bag, then they are saying they would intentionally violate American’s own rules. I believe the restriction was implemented because too many FAs were being injured trying to lift HEAVY bags up to the overhead storage plus the possible legal actions if a FA accidently dropped one of these bags on a seated passenger. It may be worth it to ask AA if this restriction is still in place.
The tapes will become public IF he decided to pursue litigation through discovery…..i suspect any lawyer will tell him to let this go if he wants to keep his job and what is left of his reputation.
I’m pretty sure he knew it was a crewmember’s bag as most crew put identifying labels etc. on their bag to ensure passengers don’t mistakenly take their bag off of the aircraft when disembarking.
JT is an idiot loser !
@Ben Rich – FAs aren’t prohibited. An FA is fully capable of lifting a bag without injury. Remember an FA would be required to open a 50 pound emergency exit door if it came to that.
FAs aren’t mandated to help with bags. Any FA who was raised right will help, however.
The fact that the moved bag prevented the bin from closing is irrelevant. The FA intent on closing the bin would know it was a crew bag and moved it appropriately.
As to the fault here, I tend to side with the passenger lacking other information. But blame can be shared too. The fact that the FA escalated the dispute shows lack of training or else being on a power trip.
Asking a FA for help is problematic. The FA might seize the bag and check it in. Only ask for help after the flight takes off but that risks a diversion.
JT shouldn’t have moved the bag to a different cabin but the FA was a lying bully.
Please note flight attendants are coordinating responses to this story in their Facebook groups.
Ill-educated as they are, they accidentally forget putting their own spin on it, lol. Scott Shoup needs to be fired and all benefits taken. He/they has a long track record, and you wouldn’t want to leave your child with him/them.
The headline seems unfair since he said he wouldn’t release it until he speaks with an attorney. That seems reasonable if he plans to pursue legal action. Rather than try him and the airlines in the court of public opinion – let’s give it time for facts to be released.
If JT is in the right then releasing the recording should be no issue. Withholding it isn’t a good look for someone claiming to be the aggrieved party.
Doesn’t AwardWallet have an interest in trying to rebuild its relationship with AA? Not sure why they are having their EIC engage in a flame war with an FA. This whole thing had many pathways to de-escalation – no one looks good here.
Gary, as a long-time reader, don’t you think that headline is a bit unfair? JT said: “I want to engage legal advice before I share it to make sure I’m covered. And I’m not going to have the opportunity to get that for at least a few more days…”
That means he will release it as long as it doesn’t violate some privacy or recording law, and since he is out of the country, he will need a few more days to find a lawyer with the appropriate expertise to make sure he isn’t committing a crime by releasing it publicly. Seems more than fair.
How does that translate into a headline of “He Refuses to Release Tapes That Could Clear Him.”? JT is a former accountant, and accountants are trained to be careful. Don’t you think that headline sounds pretty nefarious!
FAs should de-escalate, not escalate. If an FA can’t handle a moved bag (which isn’t uncommon) they won’t be able to handle a real emergency.
Why was an FA bag in PE anyway? They have that whole closet they monopolize in F. Even if you are traveling in F, asking a FA to hang up your bag in ‘their’ closet, or a wedding dress, or to stash a bag if the overhead is more likely to get you a scornful dismissal than anything else. Did the FA have a hot date and was planning to leave work early, with the passengers in PE?
Last, a refusal to work without a legitimate safety concern could be considered a partial strike, which would be illegal under the NLRA. FAs are covered by the RLA, so no idea if the law is the same.
All of that is in defense of the blogger, but you still shouldn’t move another passenger’s bag. Period. Even if they are in economy. And their bag legitimately doesn’t belong. Just think, if he had involved the angriest FA on the front end, and the bag legit didn’t belong in PE, he would have had all of that righteous anger on his side.
And having crew tags just means you can find crew tags on Amazon and have $20. It doesn’t mean you are crew. Not all those ‘FBI’ shirts are legit either. Turns out there aren’t any legit Female Body Inspectors.
Again, the PAX committed the original sin of moving a bag he did not own from the overhead bin and dropping it off in another cabin without first getting an OK from either the PAX or FA whose bag it was or an FA. This is basic etiquette and the PAX owns the consequences. Full stop
FYI, publishing a recording without the consent of both parties could violate state law. Google ‘dual party consent states’ or ‘why did Linda Tripp get indicted’.
@1990 — For real. *Munches on popcorn*
JT isn’t helping himself by not having a clue about the legal requirements of defamation are. It’s not remotely a slam dunk case.
I trust Gary on this one.
-JT clearly paints a very one-sided story open to no interpretation but his own. Which I’m not faulting, as that’s common. He knows AA won’t go into detail with any response or comment publicly with any specifics. So it’s very easy to paint a picture with no defense.
-I’ve never seen a crew bag that wasn’t labeled as such.
-JT mentioned a couple of times in his account that the PE cabin was filled with non-revs, and somehow he had a count of 21 non-revs in the cabin.
-Flight crew are instructed to distribute their bags throughout the cabin so as to not interfere heavily with any particular part of the aircraft. I can’t fault one crew bag being in PE, in the last row. It is also important that crew know where their bags are in the event of an emergency as they have manuals, forms, etc., they may need to access.
-In JT’s disdain it seems for non-revs or employees sitting around him, perhaps that came into his offense that a bag was in “HIS” space overhead.
-He never should have touched or moved the bag. That could be a crime in NY as someone mentioned.
-While NY is a one party consent state for recording, recording crew is a violation of AA’s rules, to which you agree when you buy a ticket. So… use a recording to prove your point, but in doing so you admit to a violation of AA’s published rules. So they got you either way.
I’ve had people touch my bag in the overhead… other passengers that is. Yeah, I wouldn’t have responded if he asked whose bag is this. I would have let him put it in the aisle or try and move it. Then flag down crew and ask where did my bag go – and I think that guy was messing with it.
It isn’t the place of passengers to “enforce” whose bag goes in what overhead bin. There isn’t a banishment of bags from one cabin or individual going anywhere. At some point, crew will say take any open space you see to passengers.
Just his assumption that he could move the bag, and that it must be a coach bag put wrongfully one row ahead of where it’s “allowed” just tanks his whole argument and makes him unsympathetic.
We agree it’s ok to touch other people’s bags to rearrange them to make space within the same bin (especially if bag owner failed to orient their bag as the bins are designed to efficiently hold them), but NOT OK to move someone else’s bag to a different bin, right?
Because if you put your bag flat and my bag will fit if I flip your bag to match that big sticker they put in the bins telling you not to be an idiot, I am absolutely rotating your bag.
§ 155.05 Larceny; defined.
1. A person steals property and commits larceny when, with intent to
deprive another of property or to appropriate the same to himself or to
a third person, he wrongfully takes, obtains or withholds such property
from an owner thereof.
Sounds like JT is worried about New York’s consent laws regarding recording conversations. Based upon what I read New York is one party consent and since JT would be one of the parties, he should be ok.
From reading the articles, it seems both JT and the F/A agree on one thing: JT moved someone’s carry on without permission to another cabin. Big “no-no”. Kind of disqualifies everything else.
I agree that “two wrongs don’t make a right” however JT should never had touched the carry on in the first place…end of!
I guess the risk is bigger than the reward here. As someone who flies for work you need to be so careful not to get in trouble. As your livelihood depends on it.
The world order is crumbling.
Riots, protests. War between Israel and Iran. Ukraine, Sudan and Yemen.
Yet somehow the placement of this carry-on piece of luggage is the big deal.
@Tor – New York is not a two party consent state
@Gary – I know that. IAMAL :). But, if I was going to post a recording like this with this much media attention, I would take the time to consult a lawyer who works in this area. I would not just trust my internet research. I think JT is smart in talking to a lawyer first.
This is from the previous article Gary linked to:
“He says that overhead bins in the cabin were full when he arrived, but carry-on bags above hm were placed horizontally so he first tried to rotate them vertically to make more room. One of the bags was too large to do that.”
Why are flight attendants traveling with bags that are so long that they can’t be tucked in on their sides with the wheels facing the aisle? The bag was so large it could only fit laying down horizontally. If I paid Premium Plus and I didn’t have any space for my bag, and the offending bag was marked “crew” which it probably was, I’d be pissed too.
While ppl are getting seated, there is no way to get a cabin attendent to help, passengers are filling up the aisle. Why should he put his bag in economy, he paid for Premium Economy and the flight crew is taking up his baggage spot. So do you wait with your bag in the aisle, blocking the aisle, wait for people to crawl over your bag that is in the aisle as there is no space for you to put it. Wait until economy is fully seated and you can finally get a cabin attendent and then there is no room for your bag in economy either?
Maybe the best solution was to simply remove the crew marked bag, leave it half way in the aisle, put your bag in the bin and keep your mouth shut. Probably moving it into coach was not the best solution. Again WHY was a crew member flying with a big carry on bag that will not fit into the bins without laying flat horizontally?
I fault the flight attendant more than JT Genter for the placement of the flight attendant’s bag. Passengers want their bags over their seats or across from their seats for security reasons, security that the flight attendants don’t give. Further, going even a short distance from your seat against the flow of passengers off of the airplane is difficult to impossible. It is much easier for cabin crew who have to wait until passengers are off before leaving the airplane. Allowing on an oversized carry-on is the fault of the gate agent. Taking an oversized crew carry-on is the fault of that flight attendant (original sin – before any moving taking place.) If I fault JT Genter any, it is that he did not make sure that he hovered around the gate so he could board first in his group.
@Michael Lissack — Nice false equivalence you got there. Would be a shame if someone were to call it out…