On June 9, blogger JT Genter was kicked off of American Airlines flight AA106 from New York JFK to London Heathrow for moving a flight attendant’s bags out of the premium economy overhead bins and into coach.
He says he mistakenly believed the bag belonged to a coach passenger, that nobody in premium economy claimed it, and that the bin signs say the space is for premium economy only so he was acting in good faith. Genter also relays that the supervisor who removed him explained that flight attendants insisted he be ejected – and that they wouldn’t work the flight if he was allowed to travel. American acknowledged the incident, and even compensated him with miles for what happened.
The flight attendant whose bag was moved responded in the comments to my story about this. It’s great to have the other side of the story – sort of. They offer few specifics. But I think it’s worthwhile to walk through one piece at a time.
I am the flight attendant whose bag was removed from the overhead bin by Mr. Genter. I agree that he should not be removed from the flight for this reason. If he had simply asked someone in the crew about space for his bag, I would have been happy to move mine to accommodate his. There was more than ample space further forward and I was not married to the spot above his seat.
In my view JT Genter should not have moved the bag on his own, as I wrote originally. That’s true whether it was a crew bag or a passenger bag. In his own telling, he moved the bag to a different cabin of the aircraft (economy) without the bag owner knowing, and he left it there even though it wouldn’t fit in the bin.
The flight attendant now says they would have been happy to move their bag. Maybe, maybe not. They may not themselves even know for sure in the counterfactual they describe. But there’s no question, JT should have asked not:
- assume that it was a passenger’s bag from coach, since no one identified it as their bag when he asked in the cabin
- move it on his own, on the argument that the bins say they are for premium economy passengers only so the bag belonged in economy and that’s where he was going to put it
- leave the bag in a bin where it didn’t fit
In fact, his assumption was wrong. It was a crewmember’s bag. Premium economy is an unusual place for the flight attendant to have stored their bag, but so be it.
I contend that Mr. Genter was well aware that my bag was a crew bag ( I have crew tags on it…) and took umbrage over the fact that my bag was in “his” overhead bin.
That seems unlikely. If we take the flight attendant at their word, we should take JT at his (he says he has a recording of the full incident), but regardless I don’t think JT would go looking for that fight. He’s not a stupid man.
Again, I would have moved it for him if asked and I don’t think this conflict over space is a proper reason to remove him. The real reason he was removed was because he indicated that he did not have to comply with crew member instructions, basically defying me and 3 other flight attendants. Mr. Genter indicated to me, the purser and 2 other flight attendants that he did not have to follow the rules and there was nothing we could do about it.
This is… not plausible. I don’t doubt that JT maintained that he was correct that (1) he did not know it was a crew bag, and (2) he thought moving a coach passenger’s bag to coach was correct because passengers are supposed to use the bins in their ticketed cabin. JT should have apologized. A bit of humility would have helped a lot I suspect. But it’s not credible to suggest that JT said “he did not have to comply with crew member instructions.”
Mr. Genter indicated to me, the purser and 2 other flight attendants that he did not have to follow the rules and there was nothing we could do about it.
And telling us JT “basically defi[ed]” this and “3 other flight attendants” without telling us more about how or over what this defiance took place gives away the plot.
I would add, just for reader context, that the requirement to follow crewmember instructions is often misunderstood (including by crew). It is not a blank check. Under federal aviation regulations, passengers have to comply with safety instructions, they do not have to give up their lunch because a crewmember wants to eat it for instance.
Here the flight attendant has gotten some good advice, to use the correct buzzwords to protect themselves.
I think it is reasonable to expect that this defiant and non compliant behavior would continue after take off. That is a problem not only for the security of the flight but also for the financial bottom line of my company. If he chose to remain non compliant and an incident arose with him inflight we would have been forced to divert to another airport to remove him there, costing the airline and the passengers money and time. In consultation with the captain and corporate security we determined that it was prudent to have Mr. Genter removed to avoid disrupting the otherwise normal operation of this flight.
The problem is that this doesn’t sound like an accurate representation of what happened, or reasonable judgment about the flight. And the even bigger problem here is that it should never have come to this.
- The passenger should never have been confronted in this way.
- The flight attendant should have been de-escalating the situation, not amplifying it.
During the pandemic American Airlines was far more likely to divert over mask issues than United. American gave flight attendants rules to enforce and each one used their own subjective judgment about when and how to do it. United, in contrast, had gone through rounds of ‘de-escalation training’ for cabin crew following the David Dao passenger dragging incident that made worldwide news. As a result, United was far more likely to write up non-compliance and turn it over to the airline to deal with after the flight, than to escalate things with the passenger on the aircraft and let things get out of control.
American didn’t learn from this, and hasn’t done the kind of training that United has. And that’s on them, more than the flight attendant.
I totally believe the crew bag had a crew tag on it as that is what I see all the time.
I would like too see the video or hear the audio. Until I do, I believe the crew’s account as more credible
Anyone who follows JT knows that he is not a confrontation type of guy at all. Quite the opposite. Seems to me like a FA was power tripping and didn’t want their bag touched. They have tough jobs and have to deal with a lot of crappy people everyday- I get it. This is not one of those situations though…
Certainly not a premium experience like what he could have flown on Delta on their super premium 767-400.
I’m sure that type of behavior by the FA would never been tolerated at premium Delta.
Thank God the crew ejected him. JT Genter and his fat head are a danger to the safety of other passengers.
I would like to comment on an incident many years ago on Air Canada flying from Montreal to Toronto – Paid over $400 for ticket including taxes in Economy just behind Business Class – All I had was a coat – opened overhead lock and a pilot dead heading to Torono and sitting in Business Class had put his luggage above my seat – the annoying thing was I could not even put my coat up and had to sit with it on my lap – when he came to grab his luggage as soon as we landed I told him it was not fair I could not put my coat above me as all bins full especially since I had paid over $400 for one way ticket. I think airline staff and crew while they should never be abused should also be aware we pay good money for our tickets and should have a little space above us in overhead.
@JCW — As @Matt used to say: “For a ‘super’ premium experience, where you can move around others bags without getting thrown off the plane, please consider Delta.” @L737, amirite?
I would like to believe either side but feel neither are fully honest, a) because in our present culture the public fails to behave in a civilised manner and b) I have witnessed and been made a part of AAL staff escalating a banal issue up to a fist fight all the while cowering behind the mistaken belief that you pointed out that their will is to be uncontested. Why don’t people treat each other better?
I have seen similar instances where lawyers get involved and the story gets so twisted and away from reality. The FA’s response sounds like a lawyer or someone trying to be a lawyer wrote.
JT’s audio recording is why it’s important.
@1990 — Hear, hear!
Sounds like a little self-justification on both sides, to be honest, but I the FA’s story rings “falser” than JT’s. It’s almost inconceivable that JT would make a statement that could reasonably be interpreted as “I don’t have to follow instructions” and if the FA REALLY believes ” I would have been happy to move mine to accommodate his.” well, he had that opportunity to de-escalate the situation after the fact by saying exactly that. Instead he seems to have drawn the (convenient but unreasonable and unnecessarily harsh) conclusion that JT was “defiant” rather than simple trying to explain himself.
..and the FA should be fired because it is reasonable to expect that his defiant and fabricating reports of passengers and unprofessional conduct would continue during future flights.
That is a problem not only for the security of the flight but also for the financial bottom line of thed company.
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I have seen more power tripping FA’s on AA but AA does not have a monopoly on that. There are other airlines that have far better FA’s.
The crew member is mistaken in thinking that passengers are required to follow all crew members’ instructions. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations § 91.517 Passenger information only states that passengers must comply with crew member instructions regarding smoking and seat belt usage. Stewardesses always lie about this by quoting a portion of 91.517 but omitting the rest.
The one undisputable fact is the blogger moved someone else’s bag to a different section of the plane. Who does he think he is to do that without confirming who the bag belongs to? Suppose the passenger was in the lavatory. He should have put his own bag in a bin that had ample space. That’s what every other passenger does when boarding or seek assistance from a FA. It’s one thing to reposition a bag to make room but to move a stranger’s bag to the back of the plane? This is entitlement at its worst.
My $0.02:
There is a continuous and disturbing trend at AA with customer-facing employees acting drunk with power. I have witnessed it. I have experienced it.
When a company allows employees to place their own convenience over that of customers the culture is broken. We’ve seen it: galleys blocked. FAs holding the bins. Upgrading pilots before paying passengers. Rapid escalation of conflict with passengers.
The culture at AA is extremely toxic and anti-customer and the company has turned a blind eye to it. There is no respect for the people who pay the bills. There is no respect for anything or anyone. AA should clean house and start over.
NEVER assume you have the right to move someone else’s possessions. Period. If it aint yours, it aint yours to move. If you believe the bag shouldn’t be there, tell the crew. JT is 100% in the wrong.
JT is a pompous bully in the travel media world: combative, entitled, and impossible to ignore. Those who know him well aren’t surprised by his behavior; stirring conflict is simply in his nature. At every outlet he’s worked for, JT has left a trail of tension, thriving on confrontation and picking fights over the pettiest editorial overlaps. He obsessively dissects every article written in the travel space, quick to cry plagiarism if a sentence resembles his own, even in passing.
He doesn’t build community—he drains it. JT isn’t just a critic; he’s a parasite.
You all tripping.
Let me count the ways
JT or whoever he is was out of order moving the bag and that seems to be in agreement. What happened from there is irrelevant, he did not show respect for the FAs. Corporate Security approved his removal. Where is his video? Prove us wrong!
Bad behaviour on the ground is a precursor to how one behaves at 35K feet plus alcohol..
Fly Delta instead, he won’t be missed
I’ve flown thousands of flights since 1997 and even though I can be a total pri&k at times (as evidenced by some of my posts) I have never had anything close to this kind of situation. I know what battles I will never win, and me against a flight attendant unless it involves a serious safety issue I’m not battling.
I wasn’t there so I can’t say who was right or who was wrong. But going up against the flight attendant (who might be in the right) ain’t gonna work out well. And airlines are well over “the blogger” love affair. Few, few are going to book a seat on an airline because some blogger discussed the tray table.
I just found the FA’s comment on the original article, and looked up the FA on Google. The FA left his name, and his Social Media accounts are easy to find.
I’m reasonably certain this is the same FA who had a fit on a flight I flew in first class on AA about 10 years because he wanted to place a drink on the table, and the passenger next to me, in the window seat, attempted to take the glass from the FA’s hand. The window passenger handled things great and deescalated what I thought was going to be a big issue because of horrible FA.
One pre pandemic experience on AA I had reminds me of this situation. Partner and I seated in premium economy, buckled in ready to land after 4hrs in the air. Flight attendant takes their jump seat, and rather rudely tells my partner they need to immediately place their clutch under their seat. My partner had Airpods in and couldn’t hear the instruction but immediately removed them and said “I’m sorry could you repeat that?” Flight attendant snaps and said if she didn’t comply she would throw her off the jet (unsure how that was going to be possible at 30,000ft). Was quite strange how the FA went from 0-100, immediately threatening to remove a passenger when they didn’t hear something, vs repeating an instruction. We shook it off as an FA being on a power trip.
I take JTs side. I have read all his articles for years and have met him many times. He is not entitled and arrogant and even his post he says he should have not moved the bag. Flight attendant def on a power trip. Same thing when they come to your flagship business seat and they pull the shoulder strap without even talking to you.
While there are always two sides to every story, I’m going to say one thing is clearly evident – I haven’t flown American Airlines in years, and from what I’ve seen in recent times, I will never EVER fly that airline. FAs who think they can just singlehandedly toss someone off the plane because they couldn’t de-escalate a situation should be fired with cause. The fact this FA felt it was necessary to post their side of the story is hilarious. Sorry, but you just made it worse, with your pompous response. (And yes, I agree, never move someone’s luggage to another cabin, but where were ALL of those FAs when the pax was trying to get his bags settled?
I also noticed the FA didn’t explain why their bags were in the wrong overhead bin. #sorrynotsorry
@Gary – you hit all the right points in terms of JT handling the relocation of the bag in a inappropriate manner. But kicking him off the plane was idiotic. It just plays into the narrative, and my own experience, that international AA’s FA’s are old, crabby and lazier than the domestic team. It’s the entitlement that comes from seniority putting them on those flights.
Bob has the correct flight etiquette here. Passenger created the problem and was in the wrong. However, what happened next is still a big unknown. I imagine lots of misunderstanding and unnecessary escalation led to the ejection.
Obviously all speculation from those of us not there.
But…
When 3-4 FAs are talking to you, the passenger is usually in the wrong.
It’s almost worse that Mr Genter thought it was another passenger’s bag. We’ve all been in the scenario when some entitled passenger just randomly removes a bag after loudly yelling “hey, who does this belong to” like they own the joint. In this case, with no information (did the FA instruct a passenger to put it there? Is the pax in the restroom?), he just moves another passenger’s bag to another cabin and, per his own account, he has absolutely no idea who the bag belongs to so in the best scenario, Mr genter is just the asshole moving a fellow passenger’s bag without their knowledge based on an entitled assumption.
But, the reality is Mr Genter was likely drinking in the club, well aware that it was a crew bag. What kind of frequent flyer can’t tell an FA bag? They’re laden with company/union stuff. So he’s likely lying about what he knew.
But perhaps the reality is Mr Genter drank too much in the club (6 hours in it…) and just was an asshole by his own account to another passenger but more likely, just feeling entitled. When 3-4 FAs come talk to you and you get removed, the passenger is usually the drunk or tipsy asshole.
We’ve all been there. We’ve all seen it.
It’s hard to believe any police claims of resisting arrest because they keep saying “stop resisting” while they’re on video beating up someone who clearly isn’t resisting. Same thing with flight attendants and their bad faith boilerplate. I’m sick of this toxic, corrosive element of American culture. This didn’t used to be a fundamentally dishonest country, and I miss those days.
Probably one of those old bitches part of the over 60 crowd that will not retire or die.
The FA, Scott Shoup, has been an AA for 35 years. He is a white, gay man who called two women “bitches” on social media.
If I fly AA and see him, I will goose step and stay away from him because he is vicious. He kicks people off flights as a power trip.
@derek what does the FAs gender or sexual orientation have to do with any of this? Is a male or gay FA somehow more prone to engage in aggressive behavioral toward passengers?
And, really, you’re going to clutch your pearls over someone calling someone a bitch on social media? You must not being paying much attention to how people are acting online lately. Bitch is gentle compared to what a lot of people are saying these days.
The fact that JT has not shared the video is interesting. Why even mention having it on video if you don’t share it? I can **say** I have video showing Jackie Kennedy is the one who shot JFK. i
Simple solution: JT posts the video. If it shows the FA bag is tagged as Flight Crew, believe the FA. If it’s not tagged Flight Crew, believe JT.
If he doesn’t post the video after saying he has video, then his entire story has no credibility.
The FA’s need to be fired immediately. This is absolutely unacceptable. There are no excuses for this type of behavior.
My verdict:
The customer was wrong for touching and removing another bag that was not his own. Period. His flying history precludes him from claiming ignorance – he should have known that he needed to enlist the help of a flight attendant with a bag dispute.
I believe the FAs were correct in advocating the removal of the passenger if they deemed that it was in the interest of the remaining passengers and crew.
I put my life in the hands of the pilots and flight attendant when I step on a plane. Their jobs are difficult enough without having to entertain entitled lippy blogger-passengers.
The blogger can state accurately that he FA’d and Found Out.
Back to my seat…
This was a tough read. As far as I can see, your reasonings for your stances on who to believe are all based on fallacies. First, you insist that both parties be taken at their word, except it seems when you disagree with their word, such as expressing disbelief as JT was “not a stupid man” as a way to impeach a statement from the FA. I would say that that is arguable given the state of airline travel today and the rather common knowledge that lapses in etiquette can get you booted, fairness isn’t included in the ticket price. But even if his actions aren’t the actions of a stupid man, they are certainly the actions of an arrogant, entitled one and every single incident would be easily described as being committed by that type as easily as a stupid person. And finally, you express disbelief that JT said he didn’t have to follow the rules when what I saw the FA say was “indicated,” and since it is an essential part of their professional skill set to evaluate those kinds of things, it seems to me that to be convincing, you might have given that maybe a bit more consideration.
I am fairly surprised Scott Shoup is even allowed to fly. If you dig around on Google, let’s just say your unaccompanied m1nors shouldn’t be on a plane with him alone.
We all know that flight attendants have a hard job. We all know that travelers’ good will is being tried and squeezed to the brink every time they have to go to the airport and get in a plane. AND we’ve all experienced flight attendants who love a power trip.
Who moves a bag without asking ? Exactly…
@ derek
F u C k off !! from all FAs around the globe especially this one!