You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
On a recent American Airlines flight a flight attendant “tore the cushions off” empty extra legroom Main Cabin Extra seats so that passengers couldn’t sit there.
A passenger went to sit in these empty seats. No one was using the six empty seats. The flight attendant said he needed to move because they were $150. Someone else went to sit there and told the same thing. An announcement was made not to sit in the seats. Two more times ppl went to sit there because it was six seats open, and he literally tore the cushions off.
Post by @summerzcrystalView on Threads
The flight attendant said these are $150 seats, but didn’t offer to sell them. Crewmembers at American don’t have the ability to upsell these, like they do at some other airlines, which is a lost revenue opportunity but the airline is very careful about making IT investments.
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
Delta calls their extra legroom seats at the front of the plane “Comfort+” and it’s a different fare type. Effectively, it’s a different cabin just like coach is different than business class (yet doesn’t pay the higher tax for this demanded by the U.K.).
When American Airlines introduced free drinks to Main Cabin Extra extra legroom seats they allowed passengers to move into these seats if empty.
Then they made it officially against the rules but left it up to flight attendants whether or not to stop passengers from moving into those seats. However, two years ago began asking flight attendants to crack down on passengers moving to get extra space for free.
It’s not unusual for Main Cabin (MC) customers to ask to change seats after they’ve boarded the aircraft – to sit next to a family member or get out of a middle seat, for instance. However, customers may not be familiar with our seat change policy; particularly when it comes to Main Cabin Extra (MCE) seats. While you may allow a customer to move to an available Main Cabin seat after boarding is complete, they’re not permitted to move into an MCE seat unless they are booked in that class. So, if a customer asks to move to a seat in a different seat classification (i.e., MC ot MCE, MCE to First, etc.) politely decline their request unless there is a customer service or regulatory conflict present.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative.
Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.
(HT: Johnny Jet)
The flight attendants are CORRECT, if you didn’t pay to sit there then you shouldn’t! If I pay to sit in MCE why should another passenger get it for free? This practice is considered theft of service, of course the typical entitled American thinks it’s ok, well it’s not! I appreciate the flight attendants that enforce the rules!
I agree because if they allow people to just move up then what’s stopping them from moving up to business in first class if there’s an empty seat. What they should have done was offer those six seats to those with status in economy if they’re not going to sell them. They should know who has status and how many of these premium seats are available and at the gate start upgrading people to them
Nothing was “ripped” or “torn.” The seat cushions are removable. They were removed.
@Ken they didn’t remove the cushions from assigned, occupied seats. Nobody was denied air raft survival equipment.
I’ve watched this battle between flight attendant seat police and free upgraders on every airline. Budget Asian airlines and mainline U.S. airlines. Why are you singling out American, or do you just not know better?
BUT, doesn’t the airline assign economy plus type seats to basic economy passengers (who aren’t allowed to choose their seat in advance) if that’s what’s left when they check in? They certainly don’t strand them at check-in and fly with those seats empty.
The United States has become a nation of moochers who can rationalize anything with their malignant sense of entitlement that somehow absolves them of their need to buy or produce the things that they want.
Nothing was “ripped” or “torn.” The seat cushions are removable. They were removed.
“Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.”
I strongly disagree. Having an empty seat next to you has great value. When you pay for the upgraded seat, you are increasing your chance that the seat next to you will be empty. That is a benefit that you paid for, and it is certainly part of my decision making when choosing my section.
I find myself in agreement with almost all of these responses. The airline has the right to charge extra for “extra” perks. However, it’s also true that airlines have incentivized passengers to try to move seats by refusing to recognize that there are limits to what the hunan body can endure. Seat pitch and even seat width have continued to shrink over the years and AA is one of the worst offenders, bringing much of this problem on itself.
One solution (and I recognize that this won’t be popular with some of you) is regulation of seat size minima. That would level the playing field for all carriers. Even first class these days is way smaller than it used to be, particularly seat pitch. I don’t like to recline my seat in domestic first class because even there, it has become rude to do so. So, given the increasing prices of any kind of upgrade, I have to ask: who’s ripping off whom?
The main cabin extra seating includes drinks. Ie if someone is seated there even if rhey aren’t supposed to be the flight attendant in doing checks might ask them out of habit. This is exaftally like just taking a seat in first class because it is open
If they just made all the seats a reasonable size there wouldn’t be this petty problem. 6 inches of seat space should not be a financial burden. The economy seats should not be a physical hazard. This paying to be reasonably comfortable is just airlines being greedy. Maybe economy should come with a warning maybe hazardous to your health.
Everyone has always known that the emergency exit rows have more room. But I thought those seats had to have capable adults in them in case of an emergency they had special instructions of what to do and how to open the door. Why isn’t that a thing anymore?
What the article fails to mention is that FAs get negative performance points when they allow people to move to MCE. Yeah the people who pay for those seats COMPLAIN!
I may absolutely be wrong about this, but those cushions also serve as safety(flotation) devices. Given how strict the governing authorities are about aviation, wouldn’t “uninstalling” them put the airplane out of it’s normal airworthy configuration? This obviously wouldn’t really affect flight, but everything in it’s place and all that.
Highlights the increasingly antagonistic relationship airlines have been cultivating with passengers since covid, and is symptomatic of a broader trend wherein nearly all large corporations behave this way toward their customers.
That’s bc management has been writing us up for letting people move to those seats and the exit row when they didn’t pay for it. But I don’t agree with pulling the cushions off.
I’m with the airline I pay extra myself so howbus it fair to let others take them for free
Biggest issue is hogs bringing big backpacks and duffel bags and being allowed to take bin space over other people’s seats
No.
This is the same mentality of people too lazy to book two seats together and assume that someone will switch seats with them so they can sit together.
I pay extra for an aisle seat and an exit row if I can get it when I book my flight.
F* off with the seat switch. You booked a seat, sit there.
Allowing Y to self-upgrade to Y+ will:
1) discourage those people from paying for an upgrade in the future,
2) make the trip less comfortable for those paying Y+ (e.g., take away the middle seat),
3) make Y+ people angered even if they are not directly inconvenienced, with 2) and 3) leading to some Y+ people to join the Y gamers.
How ’bout this? You can upgrade on the plane for free AND use the lounge if it isn’t busy.
Another thing to consider is that if passengers are allowed to “take” empty seats, the next step will be passengers fighting over them and causing chaos on the plane. Unfortunately, the common traveler today cannot be relief upon to act maturely and with common sense.
On another note, how is it fair to a person who paid for one seat only to have a morbidly obese person plop down next to them pull back the arm rest so that their fat can spread over into two seats. We finally got the idea to charge for two seats. If a passenger needs a seat belt extension then they should pay for two seats.
While the debate over whether someone should be able to “self-upgrade” will continue ad nauseam; the fact remains that those who purchased the same seats before the flight, lose nothing if an unoccupied seat is taken.
Gary, your logic is your opinion. But the fact remains that it is AA policy that it is prohibited. This is not a reality show where the players get to vote the house rules. It is a private company. They can set the rules and enforce them and they do. End of story. How many times are you going to hash up this issue? You’re beating a dead horse.
1. Federal law requires ALL PASSENGERS to comply with ALL crewmember instructions, and that includes, in the announcement given on the plane, to take your ASSIGNED seat.
2. Flight attendants are not empowered by the airline to upgrade your seat. Only the gate agent can, and for a fee if available.
3. When you opt to sit in the exit row, you have to acknowledge, and be acknowledged, that you are able bodied and capable to operate the exit door. And you are acknowledging that to all stakeholders for that flight: the crew, your fellow passengers, the airline, and the FAA.
4. Anytime you take something without permission that you didn’t pay for is STEALING. It is theft of service. A 10-year-old knows it’s wrong to steal, so what’s wrong with you that you need to perform moral gymnastics to justify your entitlement to what doesn’t belong to you? Grow up.
Why can’t flight atten. sell the seats in the air, these planes have wifi, a credit card would work ive seen them use cards for snacks and drinks you want to move then pay
I thought those “extra leg room” seats, were actually Safety requirements by the FAA.
Someone capable of removing the door must be there, In case of an accident.
Not an upsell for the airlines.
Always makes me nervous, when there people in those seats that clearly can not move the door, or no one is in those seats.
Money over Life????
My biggest complaint is I like sitting in the first 10 – 12 rows. Not for leg room but because I can get air sick. So when people sitting in the back put their carryons in the first overhead spaces. Why is this allowed? Didn’t I pay for the space overhead?
“Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”
But someone is getting something extra that they DIDN’T pay for and that is the DEFINITION of stealing. Saying no one gets hurt is doesn’t mean it should be allowed. It is still taking something (in this case something less tangible like extra legroom) without paying for it. It is the airline’s decision that they want those empty instead of giving them away and that is their right as it is their product.
At 6’4″, I understand it completely. The airlines created this monster itself. Their menu pricing of pay for this and pay for that is how they make money. I’m waiting for the restrooms and oxygen masks to become coin operated.
Why are individuals in a plane insisting in demanding privileges when we are all stuck together up in the air with hope that we get to our destination sound and safe?
Are this people in need of attention? Was this the first time this individual flew? I wouldn’t dare ask for a better seat than mine unless it costs the same price I paid for mine. Period!
The arrogance of these comments amazes me. There was a time when all coach seats cost the same price. Corporate greed led to charging extra for “better” seats. People who have an issue with this are not entitled, they are simply tired of getting it up the a** from greedy airlines.
Why don’t airlines place a divider between Economy and Economy plus? Like they have between first and economy. That way people can see they’ve moved themselves to a different class.