You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
On a recent American Airlines flight a flight attendant “tore the cushions off” empty extra legroom Main Cabin Extra seats so that passengers couldn’t sit there.
A passenger went to sit in these empty seats. No one was using the six empty seats. The flight attendant said he needed to move because they were $150. Someone else went to sit there and told the same thing. An announcement was made not to sit in the seats. Two more times ppl went to sit there because it was six seats open, and he literally tore the cushions off.
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The flight attendant said these are $150 seats, but didn’t offer to sell them. Crewmembers at American don’t have the ability to upsell these, like they do at some other airlines, which is a lost revenue opportunity but the airline is very careful about making IT investments.
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
Delta calls their extra legroom seats at the front of the plane “Comfort+” and it’s a different fare type. Effectively, it’s a different cabin just like coach is different than business class (yet doesn’t pay the higher tax for this demanded by the U.K.).
When American Airlines introduced free drinks to Main Cabin Extra extra legroom seats they allowed passengers to move into these seats if empty.
Then they made it officially against the rules but left it up to flight attendants whether or not to stop passengers from moving into those seats. However, two years ago began asking flight attendants to crack down on passengers moving to get extra space for free.
It’s not unusual for Main Cabin (MC) customers to ask to change seats after they’ve boarded the aircraft – to sit next to a family member or get out of a middle seat, for instance. However, customers may not be familiar with our seat change policy; particularly when it comes to Main Cabin Extra (MCE) seats. While you may allow a customer to move to an available Main Cabin seat after boarding is complete, they’re not permitted to move into an MCE seat unless they are booked in that class. So, if a customer asks to move to a seat in a different seat classification (i.e., MC ot MCE, MCE to First, etc.) politely decline their request unless there is a customer service or regulatory conflict present.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative.
Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.
(HT: Johnny Jet)
Stealing has become an American past time. Stealing from U@ postal boxes, mailboxes, grocery store,drug stores, department stores, home furnishing stores.
Moving to a seat which costs more than your seat is just another form of stealing. If it doesn’t belong to you, and you take it, that’s stealing. I live in Portugal now, not CA anymore. None of the stealing antics that happen in the US happen here Im happy to say.
Back when airlines cared about passengers’ enjoyment of flying. National Airlines used to hold a raffle for unused first class amenities. I won a nice bottle of champagne back in those days.
What if open premium seats were raffle. Anyone who wants a better seat, chips in say $5 or $10. Not only would it bring a bit of extra revenue, but the interest in the raffle might bring a few smiles among the people which is in short supply these days among the flying public
This is a problem of the industry’s own making. Creating a sub-category of economy with minimally better legroom and then charging an outrageous amount to upgrade to those seats if you don’t have status, has created all manner of ill-will and frequent misunderstandings by infrequent flyers. I have no sympathy for either those who think they’re entitled to upgrade themselves for free, nor any sympathy for the airlines who created this situation in the first place.
Just buy your ticket. Sit where you booked, and STFU. It’s a seat you’re renting for a few hours. You’re not taking it home with you.
Those are emergency exit rows. You must be briefed and have to qualify to sit in those seats before takeoff. FAA regulations. End of story.
Silly argument! Just do the right thing! The Flight attendants are the law in the air! Respect them and behave yourself
If a passenger asks me if they can move into an empty exit row seat, I usually allow them. It doesn’t hurt me at all. Nothing wrong with making someone’s day.
The overwhelming majority of “premium” seats on our flights are sold so this isn’t something that routinely happens. Besides… According to AA, a window or aisle seat is also a “premium” seat that they also sell for more.
If you paid for an exit row seat… Your seat there is confirmed whereas when I upgrade someone… It’s obviously not guaranteed if it’s sold.
That’s the way I see this issue and I will continue to allow people to sit there if they’re lucky enough to ask me.
I typically disagree with most of the commentary on this blog which is why I try to avoid it. It seems to be popular with Karens who complain that nobody’s service standards can ever possibly meet their needs [fcuk off], but the author makes an excellent point with the line “But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare?”
It is not that serious. Once the door closes, I am in control and I will continue to allow people to sit there… particularly if they’re polite.
Coming soon to an airline near you, pay-per-use for the aircraft restrooms called
Pay-Lav.
There’s ongoing debate over the payment method to gain access to the lav. Coin operated slots similar to old school parking meters is at the top of the list, followed by credit card readers, and even development of an app.
Compassion and kindness I think of the past on most airlines! If someone has a handicapped, a bad knee or a hip replacement where stretching leg out could be most advantageous and that seat is not taken I just can’t comprehend why a flight attendant report sometimes have to sleep in cars because they’re not paid enough but not anyone from doing it! The airlines fault at fault they are now and they agreed business and are not an appreciative of people spending money and flying on their airlines! ! The airlines fault at fault they are now and they agreed business and are not a appreciative of people spending money and flying on their airlines! I have to say, though I’ve never had any problem with American Airlines, most flight attendants are very polite and appreciative of people, especially frequent flyers choosing their airlines over others
Yes .. I used to be a flight attendant. We are harmed by the devaluing our product . How can the airline offer raises and health care without making money ? If I walk out into a department store and take a sweater that no one is wearing ? Just because no one is wearing it ?The airline sells space and service. If you are sitting in front do you not get more space and more options on food? If I am sitting next to you why do you get to sit next to me and take up the middle seat that was empty ? I paid more for the privilege of possibly having an open middle seat . You are only thinking of yourself. You are a their . This is a capitalist society.. If you were paying more would you expect a better experience? Wake up . I now can afford to pay for a more expensive experience. I earned it . I did it I earned it everyone else can too. don’t want anyone to be discriminated against however I want what I paid for .. and I expect the airline to in force their policy..I do not want to sit next to someone that is stealing! Yes they are stealing. It is not a harmless offense. It is theft :..theft of service. The employer has to pay the employees. Where do they get the money ? By selling the travel experience. If you think this is harmless I suggest you go to your employer and ask that he / she gives your livelihood away to someone that that wants an interest free loan or a free hotel or free anything. If you are in finance then give me your guidance for free because what’s the harm? Doctor please give me free advice because why not ? You have the knowledge. Just give it to me .. this is not how it is .. you get what you pay for .. nicer cars.. nicer clothes.. better advice .. better travel experience.. ugh!
Wow the person who made that post at United should probably have a knife rammed through their heart. What a total “FU customer” comment that is
Working in the travel industry, and the question I get asked most is, Do you give an airline employee discount? Flight attendants always want a discount, but airline passengers do not get to fly the friendly skies.
Once the doors are closed, it’s obvious that unsold seats will NOT be filled.
So what’s the problem with people moving? The airline has all the money they can suck out of each passenger on that flight.
I can understand the concern of balancing the plane if it’s not full.
IF a move physically intrudes on another passenger, of course that is totally unacceptable.
I agree. Just because seat is not occupied it should not be a free for all nor “ given “ away. The integrity of the product sold must be protected. Those that paid for that upgraded product should be respected and not have what they paid for then given away to someone else who didn’t pay .
You sit in the cabin and type of seat you pay for, period.
Flight attendant , 43 years of service,
@James N “While the debate over whether someone should be able to ‘self-upgrade’ will continue ad nauseam; the fact remains that those who purchased the same seats before the flight, lose nothing if an unoccupied seat is taken.” I never get this argument. If I’m in 8C and “Ted” self-upgrades to 8B (or “Ted” and “Pat” take 8A&B), I have lost something. How can you argue otherwise as I lose the extra armrest and have to let them out to use the lav?
Your self righteous comments are idealized pap. There is no money lost, no lost benefit to you, no “cheating,” no “theft of service,” as you put it, if a passenger is allowed to sit in a seat that is unsold and therefore unoccupied. The loss is to the airline because THEY could not or did not sell a ticket to fill the seat.
I respectfully disagree with the concept of complimentary self-upgrades on flights. It seems inequitable that some passengers may receive a significant enhancement without any additional cost, while others must pay a premium for the same privilege. This practice could be perceived as unfair and may undermine the sense of equality among passengers. While I understand the allure of potential upgrades, I believe it is essential to maintain a consistent and transparent pricing structure to ensure fairness and customer satisfaction.
If the airlines pushed passengers forward like Delta does, there.wouldnt be any empty good seats and they’d be creating goodwill when people got decent upgrades.
Alternatively, add it to the fine print. “On flights, with open seats, if you move to an upgraded seat, you agree to pay the difference. Where possible, this will happen automatically to the same credit card the original ticket was purchased with.”
Recently flew another International carrier. Paid for an exit row and had seat next to me open. Was a bit relieved as it was an allnighter and wanted to sleep and have that extra space. After departure a man who was 6’4 asked to sit there and was actually charged by the FA for the onboard upgrade. He was happy to stretch his legs out into the vast open area. I however was not thrilled to have a huge body next to me. However he DID pay for the upgrade. It would have been really annoying if he just moved there for free bc passengers do pay more for that added space. FAs should charge for seat changes after departure. It’s not lost revenue if someone still wants the seat in the air.
If the FAs on my flight told me that 5hey had removed seat cushions, I would tell them we either need to enter the “missing” seat cushion in the MX Log or return them to the seats. If a cushion is “missing, it needs to be either “fixed” by maintenance or MELed, placarded inop and taken out of service. I know that sounds a little anal, but I’m pretty sure that is the way the FAA would see it.
AA can sell snacks and meals onboard with a CC or debit card. They need to give the FAs a way to sell upgraded seats too.
Retired AA Captain
If we upgrade it’s considered stealing. I will NOT risk my job over it. Stay in the seat you paid for.
There is a TikTok where a Delta-loyal poster flies AA (domestic) first, and shows how lame and dirty it is— while the popular “oof, the ghetto” audio plays.
I told my friend who was about to fly that the first time. She sent a picture, agreeing.
Bullsh*t like this is yet another reason not to fly, whenever possible.
Exit row seats are an interesting case. To make sure that there is always someone willing and capable of opening the exits, each row on each side of the airplane should have at least one willing and capable person sitting there. If the airline can get someone to pay extra for the seat, fine, but if not, the flight attendants should recruit someone. Some exit row seats do not recline so that may make recruitment harder on longer flights. Being seated in the exit row usually means specific instructions by a flight attendant as well as confirming the willingness to open the exit if needed. If no one is seated in the exit row, there is no one to give special instructions to and no one to get a confirmation from. I have paid a bit extra for over wing exit row seats on AirAsia. The extra charge was reasonable and the benefit was that I got three seats for myself because others were not willing to pay a bit extra. Definitely my gain.
Put sharp spikes in the seat that will end the behavior 😉
Back in the day, we would be allowed to change our seats so long as it wasn’t a premium seat.
This sounds so typical of AA, that’s why I avoid that airline at all costs.
Heck on Quontas we were once able to sit in business class from LA to Australia, but we also got to visit the captain and copilot. Times have certainly changed.
By the same token if I pay extra for Delta Comfort and the person in front of me reclines their seat aren’t they impinging on the extra space I paid for?
This is so incredibly Petty. I’m so tired of American capitalism.
That is perfectly fair last time I flew a guy came from nowhere and got a seat next to me for free when I paid for mine $ 175 , thanks American !!
All airlines should print rules when it comes to empty premium seats or even business and first class. FA should be able to charge passengers if they wish to move to upgrade to prime seating. Otherwise, passengers will not be allowed to move to prime seating without asking FA. There are some FA make their own judgement allowing family to be moved to empty seats so they can be all together. It was Air France from Dulles DC to Paris. Family of 5 seating in the back (coach). Yes, that was very kind of the FA to moved them from coach to premium sectio which we paid $3,500 per person. Well, is that fair?
Greed6 airlines next will be paid toilets.
“[C]hanging to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything.” This is a misguided view of stealing. To steal is to take or appropriate without right/permission and with intent to keep. It doesn’t matter whether the airline is “giving up anything.” If a passenger pays for an economy seat without extra legroom, then that passenger steals upon taking another seat without permission. Simply put, they can’t just take whatever seat they want because no one’s sitting there. Besides, why should any passenger be allowed to benefit beyond what they paid for without the airline’s consent? A passenger who purchases seat 11C gets the benefit of their bargain when they occupy seat 11C. To take an “extra legroom” seat without the airline’s permission (whether by paying for the seat or receiving a flight attendant’s permission) is stealing and wrongfully benefitting from their own selfishness.
People, you paid for your seat with extra leg room or a prettier windows view of the engines. Great.
What you didn’t pay for is who sits next to you and how much they paid for it. Enjoy your experience and stop being so mean spirited. They also didn’t pay but ended up being next to you. Surely that is their penance for taking that seat.
Don’t be fooled that the money pays for better flight attendants, it goes to shareholders.
By their logic the airlines stole from the taxpayers when they lobbied the government to bail them out after COVID
I flew LAX to Narita in Tokyo. It was AA or UA, can’t remember. I had the window and a Naval office was in the aisle seat. After take off, he moved back to an empty row with now problem. We both had plenty of room for the 13 hour flight. Coming back, I paid for an emergency row window seat. There had been an earthquake the day before so all the passengers were moved to the next day. That was such an uncomfortable flight. A very large, but super nice man sat in the middle seat. I couldn’t even use the armrest. Luckily, it was easy to get up to stretch…don’t want DVT.
Honestly, best flight in 55 years of flight was JFK to Rome on Alitalia. Coach was better than any US 1st class I’ve ever flown. Fulling reclining seats with legs rests, slippers, pillows, sleep masks, free wine, great food. Try the foreign carriers for international. They give better service.
I wonder where the removed iseat cushions were kept. If left out in the open, they could be harmful missiles in turbulence or a crash. I also wonder how happy maintenance was to have to reinstall the seat cushions, which would probably have delayed the plane’s next departure.
I have flown alot over my life I had my seats up graded free of charge to first class cause my luggage was lost for three days and the in those cases the airline should up grade you . But it seems with each generation entitlement gets worse and worse my generation is you sit where you are supposed to sit unless they upgraded you regardless of empty seats but that’s just me ,but there’s on sure fired way of stopping the airlines that is stop flying them ,I know business people have to fly but cut it back when you get in to the airlines profit margin then the will wake up and take note but the American people are the stupidest people on the planet we bitch but don’t want to do anything so until you decide to fix the problem you are the problem just as much as the airline .
In the 90’s, I gave the ticket agents a box of chocolates after they checked me in. They were happy, I left and went to my gate.
A few minutes later, one of the agents came to the gate, asked for my ticket, and went to the desk. She came back, handed me the ticket, and told me they put me in first class. Those are the days I miss. When kindness was a thing, when customer service existed.
As a side note, does anyone remember People’s Express airlines?
And when people lose their seat or get kicked off because the airline overbook?
How about when the airline claims a delay is for a reason they aren’t required to compensate paying passengers?
…and yet another reason why, even as an aviation enthusiast, former private pilot, former USAFR member, do I loathe flying commercial air.
The airlines need to make all the seats equal for all passengers. I’m not impressed by the fact that someone pays more money to accommodate extra service and amenities for First, second and third class citizens. Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, or whoever can sit in the same seat as everyone else. These businesses cram people in uncomfortable seats in order to maximize income based upon status. I’d rather not waste my money and fly anywhere anymore. I’m tired of the huge corporations discriminating customers with unnecessary perks. It’s a glorified bus. I have gotten to the point where I don’t buy anything that’s not absolutely necessary anymore. Our capitalist society has managed to run up thirty-five trillion dollars in debt. These large corporations built on greed aren’t going to have any customers eventually.
I understand the points some of you are making, but basic leg room has shrunk since the 90s. I had to book an emergency flight and there were only two seats left. I had no options. I found one other airline that would get me there on time, but there were three seats available, with less leg room than the first airline. I’m very tall. I went back to the first air line and bout a ticket. When I boarded the plane and took off, I noticed one of those premium seats stayed empty. Even after explaining the situation, I wasn’t allowed to move seats. It sucked for me and the poor lady sitting beside me because I had to turn partially sideways in one direction or the other.
Maybe the airlines should be asking the question why these seats don’t sell in the first place. Maybe they should ask if they would make more money if they were just regular seats. If they want those seats to be special, spend the money to actually make a 3rd cabin area akin to first class rather than stuffing people into the same area with the cheap seat “peasants.” Perhaps they’ve forgotten that happy customers are returning customers. God forbid that someone on a budget would dare to move forward. “To the back of the plane with you Rosa Parks “
What about the stealing the airline is doing my marketing a fare that only applies to a few seats while they charge more for the rest of the seats in the main cabin? Good ol bait and switch. You want me to act as a first responder and give aid to people getting off the plane (I have no issue with this aspect of it) and at the same time pay MORE to perform this service? I consider the trade of my time , effort and potential risk of my own safety and more than fair compensation for 6 inches more legroom. And they wonder why people want to fly southwest wherever possible!
Your logic is crapola!
I have flown over 41/2 million miles. It is stealing from airlines to take a higher class seat. That seat has extra value and airline should be paid for that value. Scum bags who steal that value should be corrected or punished. The value is owned by the airline to do with what they wish. They can give away as bonus or as loyalty reward or any other rational because it is their value. That value should not be stolen from them. I EARNED any upgrades that I receive, I did the time and gave the loyalty.
Rigid enforcement is only way for airlines to be compensate for the added value and make persons who earned or paid for the added value to feel treated fairly.
Airlines are so greedy that they won’t let you sit in a seat that has no chance to be sold. Would rather have the seat empty than have a customer get a few extra inches of space without charging them 100+ dollars. Nauseating
Hey AA. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. If the plane is already mid air, and those seats are not sold, why does it matter? If it’s an issue, have your attendants offer these empty seats at a discounted price to your in flight customers. Dumb issue. Dumb rule. Unless it’s a weight or balance issue it shouldn’t matter once the cabin doors are closed.
I try to follow the intent of the rules and I don’t feel entitled to take it upon myself to move to a better seat unless it’s offered to me. In general, I ask myself,”If everyone else did what I feel like doing, would that make the world a little better or worse?”.
Exit rows and Premium Economy/Comfort Plus are different cabins on most airlines. Premium Economy comes with upgraded food/snacks, free drinks, right behind first class for easy deplaning, etc. If there was simply just one (1) passenger who was booked in premium economy, I’m not going to disrespect him and allow randos to sit there when he spent extra $$$ on his ticket. I’m sure you’ll be upset if someone from premium economy tries to snag an empty first class seat.
Yet, when the airline companies in financial trouble, which always happens during recessions, taxpayers bail them out. During good times, they become king. Shame of them!
They price discriminate, make customers feel bad, treat customers badly, yet we have no choice due to their oligopoly power. Next time our government should not bail them out.
Let’s say that you signed a lease for an apt. After moving in, you realize that the next apt is unoccupied. Would you go in and occupy it claiming that the mgmt company isn’t losing money cuz it was not rented out to begin with?
How about you see an HOV lane where there aren’t too many cars using it. Would you start using that lane cuz no one is using it?
Using something to which a value has been attached by the owner of that resource, without paying for it, IS stealing.
How is this a loss?
Loss of reputation – the airline will be viewed as taking money from some but giving it for free to others
Loss of revenue – people who pay for it will be encouraged by this “occupy if unused” behavior, to not purchase the premium seats which results in a Loss of revenue.