You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
On a recent American Airlines flight a flight attendant “tore the cushions off” empty extra legroom Main Cabin Extra seats so that passengers couldn’t sit there.
A passenger went to sit in these empty seats. No one was using the six empty seats. The flight attendant said he needed to move because they were $150. Someone else went to sit there and told the same thing. An announcement was made not to sit in the seats. Two more times ppl went to sit there because it was six seats open, and he literally tore the cushions off.
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The flight attendant said these are $150 seats, but didn’t offer to sell them. Crewmembers at American don’t have the ability to upsell these, like they do at some other airlines, which is a lost revenue opportunity but the airline is very careful about making IT investments.
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
Delta calls their extra legroom seats at the front of the plane “Comfort+” and it’s a different fare type. Effectively, it’s a different cabin just like coach is different than business class (yet doesn’t pay the higher tax for this demanded by the U.K.).
When American Airlines introduced free drinks to Main Cabin Extra extra legroom seats they allowed passengers to move into these seats if empty.
Then they made it officially against the rules but left it up to flight attendants whether or not to stop passengers from moving into those seats. However, two years ago began asking flight attendants to crack down on passengers moving to get extra space for free.
It’s not unusual for Main Cabin (MC) customers to ask to change seats after they’ve boarded the aircraft – to sit next to a family member or get out of a middle seat, for instance. However, customers may not be familiar with our seat change policy; particularly when it comes to Main Cabin Extra (MCE) seats. While you may allow a customer to move to an available Main Cabin seat after boarding is complete, they’re not permitted to move into an MCE seat unless they are booked in that class. So, if a customer asks to move to a seat in a different seat classification (i.e., MC ot MCE, MCE to First, etc.) politely decline their request unless there is a customer service or regulatory conflict present.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative.
Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.
(HT: Johnny Jet)
Better equivalent moral analogy – your neighbor has swimming pool (with more legroom). They depart for two-week trip leaving their backyard unused. Should you be allowed to self-upgrade from your yard and go for a swim? Should whether or not the neighbor is rich corporate executive matter?
Same argument can be applied to software piracy: “Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”
If they aren’t selling these seats, then maybe it’s because they are overcharging for them? That sounds like a pricing/management issue.
As a couple that has to always buy the exit row seats because the hubby is 6’8″..I was not pleased on a Frontier flight when someone (who did ask first) was allowed to sit next to us without paying the $75ea we paid. Now that annoyed the heck out of us.
Ion the flipside..if that’s the airlines policy and you dont like it… fly someone else. Why do the rules always have to be changed to accommodate entitled people.
It’s the same way I feel about my neighbor’s house and car and lawn mower. They’re not using it so why shouldn’t I be using it.
They are a private company. If they want to charge more for more legroom, so be it. How entitled must someone be to think they can just take something they didn’t pay for? You want some extra leg room? Pay for it!
yes this is so STUPID and laughable $$$$$$$ makes the world go round when this STUPID AIRLINE equates $$$$ with MORALITY, i want to VOMIT, everyone has a price ($) on their head, everyone is a (commodity)
STUPID AIRINE
STUPID FLIGHT ATTENDANT
i flew ONCE in my LIFE (2015)
NEVER AGAIN
is AIRLINE travel REALLY STILL that ESSENTIAL???
with our (smartphones)(internet)
just like that STUPID (hollywoodland)(strike) last year
I would just ask a flight attendant if it would be ok to switch seats with an empty one.
And this is WAY, our family took the GREY HOUND BUS home from Calif.to Boloxi, Ms. OK it took forever But people were e
Really friendly,
Youngmen coming home after the War.
They just wanted to talk to an American.
You could rent a small pillow at each stop (turning in the one before).
Sometimes they smelled of cigarettes smoke, and something else???
You got to See alot on those trips….Age 80, enjoying hearing planes flying over way up, and saying that’s but No thanks.
Aunt Nita
ComfortBliss
Deco.com.check out my Store
Use the airline that suits your needs. If you NEED extra legroom, pay for it. If there is an empty seat after the plane leave, first come first served.
I pay extra for myself and usually my now 12yo son to sit in the upgraded seats with more leg room and the ability to be off the plane quicker. I always hope and hope and hope that nobody buys the third seat! For us it’s so my son can come and go as many times as he needs for the restroom without disturbing a third passenger. He also requires the window seat so that motion sickness doesn’t come on. I would definitely be ticked off if someone who had chose to not upgrade their seat when they were buying their ticket suddenly came and sat down after take off! That’s just rude and inconsiderate!
I think some are missing the point here: it’s of course perfectly reasonable for an airline to charge whatever they want, including requiring an upgrade charge for a “premium” seat. The question becomes, how reasonable is it to force empty seats to remain empty because the airline doesn’t have a mechanism to charge for them? It’s one thing to say, “sure you may move to that seat for a small fee”, vs: “we couldn’t sell those at the premium price, so no one gets them now”. At the least, because the airline can’t process the upgrade, they are not taking a loss if people who payed a standard fare are allowed to move . As far as the comparison of using someone else’s private property without their consent while they are away, this makes no sense as an analogy at all.
Ironically that flight attendant gets to fly for free as often as they want as part of their job perks, and they often move themselves to premium class seats. For free
To sustain our humanity -blood and fresh form, no one should be annoyed when another person gets some short time comfort especially in an airplane. It will land and everyone dispatch to continue in their joys or misery. When upgraded, refusing the good nibbling in business class is what the airline can gain on. Futures generations need to find good readings/writings and not fiction recorded as it’s the reality– Lord no illwill to fellow strangers.
Why don’t the airlines charge a reduced rate to anyone wishing to upgrade to those seats after boarding is complete? Even a small price gives the airline a chance to earn some money for the empty seat rather than no money. Plus if another person was able to get that seat cheaper it would be the same as someone making a store purchase after the store put the item on sale. That’s just the luck of the draw and a win all the way around.
If you pay for a hamburger, you get a hamburger. Don’t expect to get a cheese burger just because nobody else ordered it!
What about Sr. citizen with disabilities who can afford the luxuries of upgrading certain seats should be held for their convenience. It doesn’t have to be first class, but it should be to accommodate where they don’t have to have the last seats in the plane.
Simple solution: give the passengers the option to pat to upgrade. And give the airlines the ability to charge them if they want to upgrade.
I t can be a simple program where the passenger swipes his card thru a program designed specifically for upgrading. The new system would pay for itself in only a few swipes 9f customers cards who are wishing to upgrade and willing to pay for it. And would also create a profit for the airline. Seems like a win win situation and an opportunity for the airlines to make addition sales for any flt that wasn’t fully sold out.
Now, making a comparison of using someone else’s items while they are away carries no weight. I mean, did you pay for using a hammer while they are gone. And then help yourself to the lawnmower? No, and no same person would. So what could possibly think that using someone’s property without prior consent is an option. This is no comparison.
Solution: Make all the seats comfortable.
How? Require all politicians to fly economy, cattle class on public airlines. Once they’re not on the taxpayer funded private jet, first/business/ upgraded class, things will magically improve overnight.
How great would Star Trek materializing at desired destinations be for us all… Just think it and get there instantly? Would fuel, pollution, seating discomforts, costs, timing, fighting, disrespect, and etc, be eliminated ?
tracy lewis – It is NOT theft of service!
First of all… Our “premium” seats sell quicker than those that are not, so this situation is pretty rare.
Most people who want the seats will still pay for them. It doesn’t make sense that people who want them will “roll the dice” and hope that a seat will be open and that I will allow them to move into it.
Again… If the flight has a lot of seats open, I will continue to allow people to sit there as long as they ask me and I have not yet done the safety briefing.
It’s unfortunate that we disagree, but we do. All good! I’ve had time to think about this issue, and this is my decision on it. It’s not up for debate as far as I’m concerned. My mind is made up.
Ask me… I will tell you “yes” as long as the seat is vacant and boarding is complete.
Gary, you are a theif taking advantage of wage employees too exasperated to prevent you. As bad as the monsters that go to sporting events or concerts trying to sneak past the ushers to tbe good seats.
…not to mention… The “service” would be something I am providing and I have already said “yes”.
Now… If there’s an annoying “Susan” in the crew [the flight attendant equivalent of a “Karen”]… All good. I’ll give them free drinks or something else from First Class or whatever because my coworker is a jerk.
FAs comp drinks and snacks all the time. Including to crew which is OFFICIALLY not policy. We are officially not even supposed to give crew members full bottles of water, but we routinely do.
if you scroll down, you’ll see Mike’s comments and I agree 100% with that it would change overnight!
Oh enough. People! Stop trying to weasel your way into something you hadn’t already paid for. You want it, pay for it. Like everybody else.
Tell me you’re a socialist without telling me you’re a socialist lololol the airline does lose out by just “giving” the upgrade. The point of those upgrades is for comfort, that’s what the incentive is. Imagine you pay first class for the space and the quiet then some lady with her noisy kids comes and ruins that for you just because the seats around you weren’t being used. Are you, an extra paying customer, going to be incentivized to pay for that same amenity? Of course not. At that point no one would pay for any of the incentives and just focus on getting seated as close to the front as possible so once the doors close you’re ahead of the chaos game of first come first serve. Imagine if theme parks employed that same logic with express lines and regular lines. The point of incentives is for those who are willing to do what’s needed to acquire them. Once you start giving those same incentives to those who do nothing for them then you lose those that are willing to pay the price. You silly author, you.
Tammy in an above comment said, “If you pay for a hamburger, you get a hamburger. Don’t expect to get a cheese burger just because nobody else ordered it!” That makes zero sense. Once the cheese is consumed it’s gone forever and cannot ever be sold or combined by another in the future. Not a good comparison in any way whatsoever.
Wow that was wrong on so many levels. A flight attendant with no compassion for travelers. I would have sat & called it a day. I have swelling of the legs when I sit too long. But I am not rich. But may have had too buy the cheaper tickets & suffer a little discomfort. But 7 empty seats, 35,000 feet on the air. My question is. Were the people that could have bought those seats or needed to be on that plane going to join us at 30,000 feet? Was it really all that. Then again leaving the decision to the flight attendant was Americans way of being cowards. You make the rules. Now employees think they need to dismantle or destroy airline property to get the message across to a few people that may not be Americans (Wink). So the whole story’s not being told here. So did they tell her they would deduct the cost from her pay check? They do have cameras all over the plane.*She may not be stupid or dumb. Just trying to keep her job with company cowards.
Maybe people should stop flying american airlines and united, see these greedy bastards curl under the pressure of low customers and fold to come up to the same standards as other airlines instead of blaming customers
Moral imperative? An airline? That 2 universes that never intersect.
AA has an automatic upgrade system. Everyone with an AAdvantage number automatically goes on the upgrade list. Why didn’t the gate agent reseat the folks on the top of the upgrade list? Why didn’t the author mention this in the “story?” Maybe there was another reason those seats weren’t used. Maybe they weren’t safe to sit in and the crew had to keep the passengers safe. Maybe the author could have done a better job getting all the facts or mentioning these things.
The fact that anyone has to pay for legroom at all is ludacris. I remember when leg room was leg room. You either paid for first class or coach seating…. that’s it. Now you have to get out a tape measure and choose between 4 or 5 different class levels of comfort.
Why do people always expect something for free. You are receiving the seat you paid for. I work for an airline and I still purchase a ticket and pay for the extra leg room. No reason to be upset unless you did pay for the upgrade and didn’t receive it. And FAs can see who paid. It is indicated on your reservation.
If you buy an inside stateroom on a cruise, do you expect a balcony suite because it’s empty? You buy a regular seat on a train, do you expect a coach room because it’s empty?
Well, when you take what was a decent cabin, turn it into a sardine can, and then start charging a premium for what you used to get for the same money, you can’t blame people for moving if the seats are empty. Guess what guys, the same way they took the cushions off of those legroom seats, a person could pull the question off of the non-legroom seat to move up with it….