Thursday evening American Airlines flight 2818 from New York LaGuardia to Dallas – Fort Worth was delayed over 5 hours as a result of weather, and the ensuing backup of aircraft trying to reach their destinations. New York LaGuardia can get congested in the best of times.
A passenger complained online about being kept on the tarmac for five hours.
@AmericanAir @NBCNews we are on FLT 2818 from LGA to DFW, and we need help!!! We’ve been on the tarmac for 5 hours with no food and very little water. We are begging to be allowed to deplane. Someone needs to get us off this plane
— Kevin L. Walker (@KillerKW) September 8, 2023
We have been on the tarmac of LGA since 4:57pEST At 10:08p we were informed that our route to Dallas was shut down. We are STILL on this tarmac. Can we be allowed to deplane before people have health issues?! @AmericanAir @NBCNews
— Kevin L. Walker (@KillerKW) September 8, 2023
Missing from this passenger’s tale, but I’ve learned, the flight did return to the gate giving those on board the option of getting off the aircraft. It does not appear that American was in violation of 14 CFR Part 259 and 49 U.S.C. §§ 42301. The plane was over 5 hours late, and it sounds like a miserable experience for passengers, but not an instance addressed by the law. And that’s actually the problem.
Long tarmac delays of over 3 hours for domestic flights and 4 hours for international flights are prohibited and airlines can be fined if they don’t make customers aware of their right to deplane and make it possible for them to do so.
American Airlines just made headlines for a record fine from the Department of Transportation over tarmac delays. But the headlines were misleading.
DOT gathered up 43 flights with 5,821 passengers which were subject to tarmac delays of over 3 hours – where potential fines were over $166 million – and issued a $4 million fine, of which the airline only has to pay half. That’s $352 per passenger instead of the statutory $27,500 per passenger.
This flight wasn’t going to lead to more $350 fines (DOT weak sauce). But it does point to a more fundamental problem. We tell airlines they need to go back to the gate to let passengers off when there are long delays but we do little to reduce the occurrence of those delays. We are way too complacent.
In 2023 there have been scary headlines about aircraft collision near-misses, air traffic control staffing problems, and technology meltdowns. But we aren’t doing anything to fundamentally improve air traffic control throughput and the ability to recover from significant weather events.
The airlines’ preferred approach to air traffic control is to throw more taxpayer money at the problem, but fundamentally:
- The FAA serves as both air traffic control service provider and regulator. They regulate themselves, which is akin to saying that there’s effectively no oversight. World aviation bodies consider this a poor safety practice. We could just move the air traffic organization into a different agency and give FAA oversight and that alone would be an improvement.
- But the FAA ATO does a poor job recruiting, staffing has been an issue for years. They’re a sclerotic organization unable to offer differential wage rates that will attract controllers to the Northeast where they’re especially in short supply, and they’ve been unwilling to use technology to their advantage, quashing remote tower efforts which make physical proximity irrelevant and allow more efficient staffing coverage for airports nationwide.
- They’ve failed to significantly upgrade their technology despite decades of efforts. That’s both a management issue, and the vagaries of congressional budgeting cycles which make for poor approaches to long-term investment. A non-profit like NavCanada can issue bonds and borrow for long-term needs, and assess user fees on airlines for the services they provide to cover that cost.
When bad weather hits, flights slow down, and air traffic backs up. But we should be able to recover far more quickly than we do. Delays and cancellations are costly to passengers and to airlines, and investing in greater air system throughput with more advanced technology, remote towers, and better staffing is needed to help air travel and the economy grow. But we aren’t going to get there with the FAA’s air traffic control system as it is, with incrementally more funding.
The USA airlines will comply when the cost to not comply is steep. Maybe someone else can confirm if the flight sat on the tarmac for that long or if it returned to the gate.
i stuck 4 hours on my way to BOS. told me weather related issue but dont see a single drop at BOS. Got $15 voucher so guess thats fine
It shows some airlines have no human side whatsoever.
Holding people hostage for this length of time is inhumane.
I understand they have an operation to run, but humans need to come first.
This is illegal and unacceptable!
“It does not appear that American was in violation of 14 CFR Part 259 and 49 U.S.C. §§ 42301”
WHY NOT? If they were on the Tarmac for 5 hours without option to deplane, it seems like they were in violation. Please explain.
an essential site which all travelers should bookmark is the FAA’s Nataional Airspace System Status page.
They said that ATC delays throughout the NE were “probable” yesterday while there were several other cities that were “possible.”
ATC delays for weather seem to be longer and more severe this year than pre-covid but they are not usually a surprise.
That said, AA has consistently catered just to the minimum levels so is in no position to be generous w/ food or beverages in delays.
Returning to the gate is meaningless if there isn’t enough time to buy food and reboard in a sufficient amount of time. Simply bailing on the flight is not a viable option when ATC delays are so frequent. And bailing on the flight can be costly if an airline doesn’t offer a waiver. Airlines have to be required to issue fare waivers if a flight delay exceeds or is expected to be delayed by a certain time frame – perhaps the same 3 hours as domestic tarmac delay limits.
@Joshua Chopp – because customers had the option to deplane, as i understand it, resetting the clock on the allowable time on the tarmac
I flew LGA to IAD last night on United Express. My flight was delayed for hours and then finally cancelled. Fortunately,. i stood by for a later flight that eventually departed and arrived **only** two hours late. (This is pretty good for United Express based on my last three months experience at LGA) For some reason, these E175’s operated by Mesa either don’t have working APU’s or they are too cheap to fire them up. So we sat on the plane for 50 minutes with no A/C. Seems like that is something that could be addressed by United apparently doesn’t care. this is the third time this has happened in the last few months.
@Gary Leff – it doesn’t look like passengers had the option to get off the plane. The passenger who made the tweets was saying: “We have been on the tarmac of LGA since 4:57pEST At 10:08p we were informed that our route to Dallas was shut down. We are STILL on this tarmac. Can we be allowed to deplane before people have health issues?!”
bring your own snacks and water. more then 3 hours on the plane sitting on the tarmac? call 911 tell them you are on the plane and being held hostage
This is the problem with social media, people lie. AA is pretty good (DL too) about going back to the gate and offering water/etc. . .on board. A knowledgeable flier knows to carry snacks and water at all times. Getting really tired of the whiny, once yearly passengers. Grow up and take care of yourself and stop playing victim. LOSERS
American Airlines always treats its hostages on board well oops I meant passengers
My Wednesday LHR-JFK flight was delayed over 1 hr due to a flap issue yet took off with 2 lavatories not working.
In this instance, the Air Traffic Control people should be fined or fired. Not the airline, as it was completely beyond their control once they left the gate.
@ Sunvking82. I tend to agree but more important is that they pushed off the gate so the meter was running for the crew and they get paid. Easy money.
After 30-45 minutes are pax allowed to depart aircraft?
When the flight is not able to get to the arrival airport AS LISTED…it changes MY PLANS ALSO !
Remuneration is necessary….hotel, food, water…..
Aren’t these delays and situations put into the price of the ticket?
@ Gary Leff – you do a subtle thing in this post I want to compliment you on. You say “we” not “they” – that’s an excellent way to promote rational, constructive discourse. A little thing, but imo it goes a long way.
But how would they know they would be stuck on the tarmac for hours? I’m pretty sure they wanted to get lined up for takeoff and be on their way.
I’ve been on a few AA flights that experience delays and the pilots make an offer for anyone to deplane but they also say “there are no other flights today and you will not get your checked luggage” so given the choice to stay put or lose your luggage and never make it to your original destination, most people stay.
This has happened to me maybe 4 times this year and only 1 time did someone exit the plane, they had a large carry-on so I do not believe losing access to their checked luggage was an issue for them.
End of the day “it comes with the territory.” The crux of this article really is nothing but Monday morning quarterbacking written by someone who obviously has never had to manage in the real live operating world of the airlines.
There’s a big difference between “you can get off the plane and return for the flight” and “you can get off the plane but you can’t come back”. And that’s where both the law and airline policies fail the public.
What good is getting off the plane if you are now stuck at your departure airport and can’t leave until tomorrow? Or perhaps even later.
“the pilots make an offer for anyone to deplane but they also say “there are no other flights today and you will not get your checked luggage”
I thought it was a major TSA security no-no to fly with unaccompanied checked bags on board? Seems they always have ways to bend the rules whenever they find it convenient not to comply.
@COSTCO – it’s not, where bags are screened https://viewfromthewing.com/do-checked-bags-still-have-to-travel-with-domestic-passengers-for-security-reasons/
Repub licans love to be obstructionists destroyers and won’t approve any FAA spending increases (even to keep up with inflation) on principle. This is what you get — what you pay for.
It is completely wrong to say that outrages like this are not “addressed by law.” In fact, otherwise tortious conduct like this is expressly addressed by US Law, just not in favor of passengers. The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 (ADA) expressly preempts all laws “related to a price, route, or service of an air carrier” and essentially grants immunity to airlines from normal civil suits for ordinary torts that airlines commit against their passengers. The fact that airlines can do what they like to you and that passengers are subject to their tender mercies and unable to seek redress in the courts is the very result of Federal statutory law, and not the lack of it. There are lots of remedies under state laws that would otherwise apply. Airlines mistreat you because the law specifically allows them to do it.