American Airlines had several terrible days operationally last week as they battled storms around Dallas and ran low on reserve crew.
On Sunday night an American Airlines passenger, stuck on the ground on a plane in Dallas for three hours, reports being forced “to dial 911 for someone to help us get off [the] plane.” 911 said they were helpless. His recording on the captain’s announcement on his flight has been viewed around 3 million times.
I literally just had to dial 911 for someone to help us get off this plane!!!! They said they can’t do anything about @americanair holding us on the tarmac …. engines running…. going nowhere….. since 4:22 pm CST. It is now 7:08om CST. At first we were delayed because they… pic.twitter.com/afKKbwzRve
— Pete Santilli (@petersantilli) June 3, 2024
This story resonates because it was a plot point of L.A. Law‘s season 3, episode 10 “The Plane Mutiny.” Firm managing partner Douglas Brackman was trying to fly to Chicago to win a client. The flight went mechanical, and passengers sat in the aircraft for hours.
Brackman demanded to be let off the aircraft, so he could find another flight, but the captain put him in his place – threatening to shoot the lawyer.
But the woman sitting beside him on the plane had a cell phone. In the late 1980s! He asks to borrow it, and we pan to a lawyer from the firm appearing before a judge seeking an order to have the airline free the passengers off the aircraft. That works, the everyone is let off – and Brackman is arrested for interfering with flight crew and for use of a cell phone on the aircraft.
Brackman lands the client (they’re impressed by his resourcefulness and aggressiveness) and a date with the cell phone woman.
Fast forward a decade and a man with a cell phone on a delayed flight became a national hero. 198 passengers on board Northwest Airlines 1829 were famously delayed in January 1999. The flight had diverted, and then the next day sat on the tarmac in Detroit for 7 hours. Toilets overflowed, food and water ran out, the cabin filled with a stench, and passengers threatened to open an emergency door.
One passenger figured out how to dial the Northwest’s CEO at home. John Dasburg’s wife answered. Eventually the captain spoke directly to the CEO, and they got a gate and everyone finally made it off the aircraft.
The Goldsteins figured Mr. Dasburg must live in one of the nicer suburbs of Minneapolis. Mrs. Goldstein’s uncle lives in one of those suburbs, Edina, Minn. They called Edina directory assistance on their cell phone. To their amazement, they found a listing.
The doctor dialed at once and got Mary Lou Dasburg, the CEO’s wife, who said her husband wasn’t at home. “I’m currently on one of your husband’s planes in Detroit,” Dr. Goldstein, 35, said. “There are 30 planes on the ground here. He needs to know.” As the two talked, passengers in nearby rows leaned in to listen. According to Dr. Goldstein, Mrs. Dasburg promised to call flight operations herself to find out what was going on. (Mrs. Dasburg confirms the call.)
The FAA may still ban onboard cell phone use – a rule that should be revisited – but desperate times call for unusual tactics.
The famous 7-8 hour delay at DTW made Geoffrey Feiger a local attorney hero. My wife, daughter and I were on one of the many flights without a gate at Metro. We sat about 8 hours on the plane. Geoff filed a class action against Northwest (before the Supremes ruled for blanket airline immunity), and obtained a $1900 per passenger settlement.
I used to fly every week before I retired 17 years ago. I have many a bad experience sitting on a delayed plane for hours. I could tell you stories! But the worst is when they turn off the air and it is hot as well. At 73, and with lung and health issues, I don’t know if I could stand that anymore and survive — I mean actually die. I do still fly and have a trip to MD and then up to Canada in a couple of weeks. If I were in this situation again I am certain I would do something desperate…..up to and including causing a disturbance or trying to open a door. Anything to get the plane back to the gate and the people off the plane. This stuff is not right and should not be happening anymore and yet we keep reading about it. In fact, a 3 hour limit of sitting is way too long! An hour or two maybe, but not 3 hours or more. My adult son and his girlfriend, coming back from South America recently had an awful experience similar to this on American Airlines. The plane was supposed to land in Miami but diverted to another FL airport instead due to weather in Miami. They refused to disembark the passengers and they sat for hours and hours on the plane and the AC was off. Many passengers were crying and some throwing up into air sickness bags. He said it was insane. He wrote American Airlines and they refused to even entertain any type of reimbursement, either in miles or cash. He gave up.
I had to wait on the tarmac Friday for about an hour 45. Dfw is stressed right now
commercial air travel is war
personal combat
everyone for themselves
our lobby-captured representatives won’t help
the airlines give zero forks about paying the DoT a few thousand in fines
the rona put us back to square 1 – they can do whatever they want and we have to eat it
calling 911 will get you a scarlet letter in that airline’s customer database
the only way to gain relief is a customer revolt at the back of the plane,
open the doors and activate the evacuation slides and exit en-masse,
and then sit down on tarmac and when the authorities arrive,
request a wheel chair as is your right under the ADA
“The FAA may still ban cellphone usage on a plane- that may need to be revisited”
HELL NO! I fly for work 2-4 times/week. People are boorish and obnoxious enough with their conversations to row mates using outside voices for 3 hours at a time, and playing movies on their tablets with external speakers. We do not need to hear someone talking on a speakerphone to a hard of hearing relative in some undecipherable foreign language as well, or the idiot sales rep bragging to his buddies how he’s “killing it” this month.
#NeverAllowCellPhoneCallsOnPlanes
What about the 3-hour (domestic) tarmac rule? The flight was within minutes of hitting that 3-hour deadline. I would think the captain would’ve been keeping passengers informed as the time limit drew closer.
What is the federal limit on ground delays?
Exact same thing happened on a flight ORD to Flint, MI two years. Too much fuel. We sat on the tarmac for hours. Even drove around the runway for a while to byrn off fuel. What a waste. I who is responsible for fueling the planes these days?
I would see independent confirmation of this story, because it sounds like total BS to me. I thought there were laws in place regarding how long passengers could be held on a delayed plane before deplaning. And what are airlines supposed to do if they have a medical emergency shortly after takeoff and have to return to their origination? Delay landing because of fuel? I dont think so.
At the strike of hour #3 on the tarmac, I would invite the flight crew to invent a solution within 15 minutes or I’d be popping an emergency slide at 3:15:01. It’s not a threat. It’s a promise. And yes, it is really that simple. I don’t doubt there would be a consequence, or at least an attempt made at one, but some things simply must not go on.
There is zero reason for passengers to be held hostage inside a grounded plan for more than three hours. We put men on the moon. We split atoms. We can figure out some air stairs at an airport.
This guy qualifies as a true village idiot. Not sure where he was located, but I was on an American flight sitting in DFW on a taxiway. That storm just moved in suddenly and was quite strong and literally parked over the airport. There were literally thousands of passengers in the same situation who understood there was nothing the Captain or airline could do about it and patiently waited it out. Given his “celebrity” this clown would be best served chartering his own ride and sparing us his nonsense.
The FAA rule on 3 hours returning to the gate is total hog wash. Before enforcing it, they must somehow pull dozens of open gates out of their bureaucratic grab bags since in almost all cases there are simply no open gates.
My advice is that if you ever find yourself grounded for over 3 hours, especially if it’s hot with no AC, get up to go the lavatory and simply collapse on the floor as though you fainted. When they try to rouse you, respond that you’re feeling faint, have a headache, legs are cramping, are confused, and are nauseated, as these are common symptoms of heat exhaustion.
This will force the pilot to radio the the tower and get a gate cleared as this isn’t a critical enough of a medical emergency for EMS to meet the plane on the tarmac, but is enough that you need to be deplaned and treated.
At that point the airline should then allow the rest of the PAX to deplane.
Probably wouldn’t recommend doing this more than once every five years or so, so everyone please take turns.
No gate available?
Mobile stairs + busses or a walk to get to terminal.
1/2 hr max to organize.
Easy. Minimal staff needed.
As Chris stated there are easier ways to deal with inbound flights waiting for a gate. Usually plenty of apron and open space areas to deplane passengers. There is never a reason to sit on the ground that long.
What I don‘t get is that a thing which is more than common in airport operations all over the world seems to be impossible in the US: Use some airstairs and take the passengers to the terminal by bus. It‘s not rocket science …
I heard the story of a plane that diverted from Manchester to Newcastle in the UK due to many go arounds in bad weather. The plane sat on the tarmac in Newcastle for many many hours, and they refused to let people off.
What I can’t believe people are not mentioning here is that technically you’re being held against your will.
That’s the beginning of the end of the British story, as they had to call 999, with a constable eventually knocking on the door to say, ‘let them off.’ Some stories I heard was that some folks were closer to home in Newcastle, versus Manchester itself, upsetting folks even more.
Now whether how much and/or of that is true, I don’t know.
Why shouldn’t the ‘held against your will’ not apply here? Sure, we all understand you can’t just pull that while the plane if taxiing (imho a grey area on that one) and definitely not while taking off or in the air. But stationary on the ground ? Can any laywers here shed some light on that wrt US law ?
I recalled that (at the time a recent) story to the crew after sitting at a cargo spot at a diverted airport for 6 hours, with my family including an infant son. With just water bottles handed out. This communication from me was a last resort before actually picking up my cell phone and calling 999 myself, as many passengers were also getting very vocal about just being let off the plane. 15 minutes after mentioning that story, we were closing doors and pushed back. I guess that spoked them to get off their butts.
Some background on this – we were translatlantic to Gatwick. We were early, and Gatwick was fogged out (as usual in the mornings), holding pattern for a while, and the pilots diverted to Stanstead due to low fuel. We were told that we were the first plane holding to make that call, and were given a cargo stand because we were just getting fuel for a short period. Many other planes made the same call very soon after and they ended up at empty gates.
To add further insult to bad planning on the captain’s part – they noted an issue in the maintenance log during the flight, that required a ground engineer to sign off. That guy was in Gatwick. For those that don’t know, the M25 that goes around London, early in the morning, is LA traffic levels of a parking lot. His incompetence was another level. After spending 2 hours getting to us, (we were told) he forgot his ID badge and couldn’t get into the airport. After the story above, an engineer appeared within 5 minutes. I don’t think that timing was coincidental.
We sat patiently, waiting. The crew was good, never giving bad service and dealing with the situation they were given. They allowed us to step outside the plane onto the airstairs to get some fresh air.
The only cool part of that was another cargo plane pulling up right next to us, unloading, loading, and then departing.
Along with other passengers we too were closer to home than Gatwick and wanted off sooner rather than later.
There is never an excuse to not be able to bring some stairs and a bus (or 5) and get people off a plane. Customs/Immigration are also not an excuse unless you’re at an airport without them, and yes, they gave that excuse to us to.
Sat on an incoming plane at the Brisbane airport for hours, with the gate Bridge mere feet away.
They refused to send anyone to extend the Bridge because there was lightning. Yep, better to sit in an aluminum tube filled with jet fuel than risk extending the Bridge.
So no way they are going to send out stairs. Though, after a couple of hours, I’d have gladly risked them.
And, I LOVED that episode.
911 seems reasonable to escape the Lone Star State.
One thing I heard work was the passengers organizing, taking a vote, selecting leaders, then exerting their collective influence and authority over the airline employees. Negotians started, the TSA was spooked, and everyone taken off the plane.
I wonder if in some cases that passengers are held on the airplanes so that the crew earning wages on the airplanes can keep earning them.
Every single airport executive and C suite airline executive should be forced to spend 8 hours in a plane on the ground in Atlanta, in July, with no power and no service.
If the rich and powerful had to live by the rules of the peons, maybe they would care.
Agree with every comment above regarding cell phone usage on an aircraft. Not just NO but HELL NO! Can you imagine sitting beside some doofus talking out loud for hours on end while being trapped next to this a**h*** for HOURS ON END? Besides, there are two laws in play with cell phones on the aircraft. The FAA and the FCC both have regulations prohibiting cell phone usage on aircraft. THANK GAWD!
I love the air stairs comment. Obviously someone is unfamiliar with the complexity of airport and AOA operations. Not to mention, storms have a tendency to produce lightning, which it turn makes the red flashing or strobe lights atop the terminal turn on, which then subsequently closes the ramp to ALL ground personnel.
So, setup air stairs during a massive storm (which by the way I was also stuck in), attempt to deplane people in torrential rain, heavy winds, and lightning…. Probably more than 30 mins to setup.
As for cell usage… generally during a tarmac delay, the flight deck will make a standard PA which includes the permitted use of cell phones until surface movement/engines on.
Thank goodness for the 3hour DOT rule. This has nearly eliminated longer delays as no airline wants to be forced to pay $$$ to every passenger. Better to return to the gate, cancel the flight and let each passenger decide on an option rather than hold everyone hostage for hours on a gamble that ATC/weather/whatever will clear.
I don’t think any airline executive has the guts to publish their email or mobile # but I would greatly admire any who did. In the meantime we can all sign up for one of those peoplefinder lists.
Why couldn’t this have been about the overall IRROPS situation at DFW?
That would have been so much more informative and helpful, rather than this tabloid-style crap about some individual nut case.
Gary, you’re better than this… Or perhaps, you’re not.
@Alex, buses aren’t as common in the US, but they’re not nonexistent. (remember the infamous Gate 35X at DCA?)
It was revisited… in 2017. FAA doesn’t explicitly ban cellphone usage in a plane, they outlined the rule and it included suggestions close to the common instruction set you hear just prior to takeoff and landing.
The FCC prohibits cellphone usage…in the air only…as a frequent flyer you probably have heard the attendant say you can use them right after you turn off the runway.
The DoT prohibits planes from sitting on the tarmac more than 3 hours US flights before departing. So I guess that had 14 more minutes. (there are exceptions…always…)
It is 4 hours for international though.
@Marco – who else have you seen write about American running out of reserves, as I did at the top of this post?
A tad off subject but how many remember when telephones were onboard airliners? Initially there were two phones, one in the front and one in the back of the cabin. Then some airlines installed “Pay phones” in the center seat position and it could be used by anyone in that row . . . swipe your credit card and dial the handset.
It was NOT a good idea then and telephone conversations on airliners remains NOT a good idea! Please stick to text messaging if you absolutely, positively need to be connected and in touch 24/7, just like so many do in their cars while driving (another bad idea.)
The 911 caller is notorious anti-government asshole Pete Santilli, who was charged with 16 felonies for helping Ammon Bundy take over the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016.
Funny how he wants the government’s help and stronger regulation once he’s stuck on an airplane.
This is done by spiteful crews. They are only paid after the aircraft leaves the gate and their pay stops when the aircraft touches the gate. So they like to sit, even for hours, because they are getting paid. But if they return to the gate their pay stops. So they sit and idle until a) the aircraft runs too low on fuel to safely reach its destination, or b) crew rest becomes an issue.
Called 911?! I hope that clown got charged for a false call.
And once again we find maga-imbeciles defending corporations, while maga-billionaires flying their private jets could not care less about the issue.
Then there are the naives/clueless asking why there are no consumer protection laws…
Reminds me of the old Stapleton days, where they had a series of “penalty boxes” (yes, that’s what they called them) where you could be stuck for goodness how long to wait for a gate or even takeoff clearance.
I also remember on time at Stapleton where the captain apologized because he couldn’t get ATC to agree to land on a different runway so we landed as far away from the gate as possible. He said it would take 45 min to taxi. I laughed because I didn’t believe him.
Then we got to the gate 45 min later.
This hasn’t always been the case. I recall about the 15 or more years ago an American flight could not land in Dallas because of severe weather and was re-routed to Austin Texas. My final destination was Austin. I was going to have to fly back to Dallas, miss my flight to Austin, spend the night in Dallas and fly down the next morning. I politely requested that they look into letting me and my young daughter off the plane in Austin even though we were not at a gate They said they would look into it and sure enough they brought a vehicle out, lowered the rear steps of the plane and left my daughter and me plus several other passengers off . We got to Austin a little earlier than we would have had the flight landed in Dallas. So it can be done when they want to do it. I don’t know why they were so cooperative but I appreciate American having done that for us. PS I had to get my luggage the next.
If you get desperate, chest pains will get that door opened fast.