A vaccine requirement for interstate travel has been discussed inside the Biden administration, but they’re not ready to pull the trigger. This would affect air travel the most, but also rail and bus as well.
This line in an @AP White House story is getting a lot of attention this morning. A White House official says mandating vaccines for interstate travel "is not under consideration at this moment." https://t.co/wCSkPl7sny
— davidshepardson (@davidshepardson) August 13, 2021
The President’s former Senior Advisor for Covid-19 was recently talking up vaccine requirements, or passports, as recently as Tuesday. It’s unlikely the U.S. government has a great way in the near-term to make real vaccine passports possible, since the data resides at the state level and it doesn’t seem like data integration, let alone getting all states to go along, would happen any time soon. Look at how many years it’s taken the government to bludgeon states into going along with REAL ID and not only are vaccine passports a political flashpoint but several Red State governors are facing upcoming primary challenges.
Hold on for 3 1/2 weeks and you will see…
— Andy Slavitt 🇺🇸💉 (@ASlavitt) August 11, 2021
Probably all that the federal government can do in mandating vaccination broadly, under current law, is to make it a requirement for interstate travel, just as the only thing the Biden administration has been able to do in mandating masks is for travel and even the legality of that is questionable. Congress seems unlikely to grant broader powers at this point, remember they didn’t even bother to do it as Congressional Democrats pushed the Biden administration to extend the eviction ban – preferring executive action of dubious legality when legislation could have bolstered that position.
I don’t expect a vaccination requirement to come to pass for two reasons.
- We may be peaking in the Delta wave now, so it’s unlikely to be put into place if they’re not doing it now.
- There’s a tremendous status quo bias in policy.
The Biden administration has shown little interest in shifting policy away from the measures put in place by the Trump administration, like bans of travelers from Europe and China, refusing to allow vaccinated Germans to enter the U.S. after testing negative for Covid-19 while welcoming unvaccinated Russians and Indonesians – though the rate of spread in Germany makes even an unvaccinated German less likely to spread the virus than an unvaccinated American in a bar. Similar policies towards immigration and oil (calling for more production by OPEC even as environmental goals would suggest the opposite) show the status quo bias of American politics.
There was no serious discussion of tying stimulus checks earlier in the year to recipients getting vaccinated. Now the Biden administration just encourages states to offer far more modest rewards. All we’re talking about is whether schools should require masks, and not whether they’re doing enough to improve ventilation, even though mask requirements generally allow for a thin strip of paper and two strings and we don’t have effectiveness data on their combating the Delta variant. We haven’t moved beyond the crudest tools to slow the spread of the virus even after 18 months.
It is far easier to keep current policies in place, even where they don’t make sense, than to implement new ones that do. And we see that across the government, for instance in delaying booster shots of Covid-19 vaccines the government prioritizes getting more first doses in arms (current policy) when they were against prioritizing first doses in arms by delaying second doses earlier in the pandemic (also status quo policy).
We may not see it at the national level in terms of cases yet, but it’s likely the Delta wave is already peaking or will in the next couple of weeks in the places that have been hit hardest like Florida and Texas. It may then move North. But if full hospitals in hot spots haven’t led the Biden administration to place restrictions on travel for the unvaccinated, it’s unlikely that further virus spread will serve as that impetus.
A vaccination requirement for travel is also not something to expect to see come out of an airline. United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby has said that’s a matter for national policy, not for airlines on their own. And he’s been willing to go the farthest in requiring it for his own employees (but the benefit is most limited for passengers when it’s only the employees who must be vaccinated).
(HT: @crucker)
That would be awesome.
(said as an outsider who wouldnt be affected if the USA imploded)
I wish they would enact much bolder policies like a nationwide vax tracking, nationwide Android/iOS contacting tracing API, and a vax requirement for interstate travel. I initially supported Warren and Sanders because I think they would enact bolder more revolutionary policy changes rather than just slight incremental changes.
As he should…..
Andy Slavitt is no longer the President’s Senior Advisor for Covid-19 and hasn’t been that for quite a while.
He’s a private citizen…an extremely well-connected private citizen who likely knows some things…but he’s not a government employee or formal advisor to the White House.
Facts matter.
I’m in support of requiring proof of vaccine for intrastate US flights.
correction: meant to say interstate flights.
Have you noticed that none of the current policies have effects on the course of the pandemic in USA. Do you really think that if we would vaccinate 10% more people or wear masks through June and July, or require vaccination for people on the planes would have any effect on the current Delta spike?l
Absolutely a no-brainer. Do it, sooner the better. Americans can’t handle grey areas like when to wear a mask or not. That’s why vaccine mandates wherever possible will be the only way out of the mess.
Heil Biden!
The king has come.
Science? Don’t need it.
Facts? Ignore them.
If the NY Times says it, it’s the rule.
Segregate and divide. It’s 2021, Yes We Can!
That probably will have a significant positive impact on vaccination rate. May even help to turn the corner for US to beat the pandemic.
I have been wondering why China is still on the covid-19 prohibition list (for incoming passengers) when the list was updated in April. It makes absolutely no sense. Thank you for your explanation.
Maybe they could just give everyone a small tattoo after they’ve been vaxxed. Or….maybe give everyone a small cloth patch to be affixed to the outermost garment to aid in easy identification…..
No more mean tweets though !!
This just keep getting better and better.
The comments on these posts always make me sad. I’m not surprised that government wants to make rules. I am disappointed at the number of people who are so quick to villainize and punish their neighbors because they don’t see things the same way that they do. The amount of “if those people don’t agree with me on vaccines/masks/etc they should be banned from flying for life!” sort of comments are not encouraging at all. Sure there are some genuinely awful people out there, but there are also thoughtful and intelligent people who disagree on the best way to combat the pandemic and care for their families. Demonizing those who land somewhere different than us doesn’t make our country a better place. If we can’t agree on who has the best business-class product, or which airport has the best food, we probably aren’t going to always agree on what specific government policy is best in a pandemic. We weigh different variables differently, we have different experiences and priorities, and we trust different doctors and scientists (and politicians) to varying degrees. That is OK. Let’s make the case for what we believe respectfully and humbly, acknowledging that we aren’t always right and that some people with differing opinions are genuinely good people too.
They need to inact more border policies. Are we fools? I’m shocked that thousands are flooding into this country without a vaccination for anything. How does this even equate?
If Biden actually tries this, given the razor thin majorities Demorats have in Congress, his odds of passing passing anything through either house will go up in smoke.
@Doug… slow down there you radical!! Having such reasonable and respectful views will not be tolerated in 2021!!!
This would be a great step. I will fully back any restrictions on the unvaxxed continuing to spread disease in public spaces. Bring it on – airports, sporting events, concerts, restaurants, theme parks, etc. should all have restrictions in place soon.
@Doug: No one is talking about demonizing people who have an argument about wanting to live out a personal aspect of their life that does not affect others. However, please don’t misconstrue things like freedom of speech or living in a compound away from society printing your own money with refusing a vaccine that has had more scientific evidence to date than the majority of approved vaccines on the market.
Unlike wearing a ‘Fuck Biden’ T shirt, you are actively endangering people’s lives by refusing the vaccine. I really don’t care if you personally die without it but you not getting it also means a) you are spreading COVID to others and in much higher viral loads than vaccinated individuals (if at all); b) by becoming sick and requiring potentially millions of dollars in healthcare costs you are directly impacting either my insurance premiums and/or my tax payer dollars for same; c) making my vaccine less effective and potentially useless by harboring virus and contributing to new mutants. Also, you are literally threatening people who can’t get vaccinated (pregnant women, children under 12) or those with poor vaccine responses (transplant patients for one.)
So, NO, it is NOT an option. It is a selfish, ridiculous position that endangers your life and, more importantly, mine. That’s when the false equivalency of ‘personal freedom’ stops. Period. Freedom and civil liberty comes with responsibility and duty. Uncontrolled freedom is anarchy which is close to what we have currently.
“when they were against prioritizing first doses in arms by delaying second doses earlier in the pandemic (also status quo policy).” Huh? Just doing one dose didn’t work out for the UK now did it?
1. If non vaccinated, higher health care premium (like car insurance) and bigger co-pays, etc.
2. Reason not too? Delta is almost over. Seems like I heard this logic 3 months ago when cases were way down.
3 how about an opt in passport. If don’t want it, don’t opt in (and harder to prove your status)
Shocking how many scared little “men” in these comments who want the government to control their lives. You people are pathetic.
Canada is doing this. Too bad Biden doesn’t have the spine to push this policy. Maybe it would be legal maybe it wouldn’t. I think the court would uphold a vaccine requirement to fly. Who really cares what anti-vaxxers think? They are the ones setting back this country. Not sure why anyone should be listening to them at this point.
A requirement for interstate travel…impossible. Oh it could just be done for commercial air passengers, maybe even for bus, train and ferry movements but that’s about it. There is no way that Interstate highways could be blocked while everybody is checked, the public wouldn’t stand for it as the backups would be impossible. I suppose people could be forced to carry electronic “passports” that are automatically read as you pass a checkpoint, but then how do you record those who don’t have one on them? Short of X-raying every car that wouldn’t work.
Anyway looking at the Interstates would be silly given the number of private aircraft, small boats and bicycles, not to mention feet that can cross a state line. And there are literally thousands of small roads that run from one state to another. It would be like Prohibition, with people sneaking themselves on dirt tracks through woods and fields and the government people hopelessly outnumbered. Much as I want to see everyone vaccinated this would boomerang fast.
Regarding respect, perhaps we should all remember that we are all guests on
Gary’s blog and Gary is allowed to impose rules on us guests . . . including being civil and polite. If someone wants to be not restricted in comments, that person can host one’s own blog. It really is that simple. And, personally, if I wanted to be uncivil and impolite, I’d go over to my mother-in-law’s for dinner.
The Freedom of Speech to which some refer relates to restriction of speech by the government and not restriction of speech by private parties. Private parties have the right to restrict the speech of guests / invitees. But, even with respect to the government, without offending the 1st Amendment, the government can and does restrict speech in certain ways. Go into most Federal buildings and there will be a plaque stating, “Attire and conduct must be consistent with the intended us of this facility.”
In offering the foregoing, I am not commenting on anyone’s position. I am not trying to restrict anyone’s position. I am not trying to characterize anyone’s position. I am simply saying that we are guests on Gary’s blog and we ought to appreciate and respect the service he provides our community.
Some might want to send a quiver of arrows in my direction. But, before anyone does, pick the flight path for those arrows that will maximize both award miles and EQMs.
Gary, that’s for all the news.
@VML – FWIW I am fully vaccinated, so take it down a notch. I’m not your enemy. Should people who are allergic to the vaccine be prohibited from flying? What about the millions of people who have natural immunity from having had COVID? This is literally what the vaccine is trying to mimic and the data suggests that natural immunity is at least as good and likely better than vaccine acquired immunity. Why should that person be required to get a vaccine in order to fly? They aren’t endangering anyone. As with so many issues this topic is more complex and nuanced than the online rhetoric allows for. The aggressive, hyperbolic “YOU ARE LITERALLY KILLING PEOPLE” nonsense isn’t helping anyone. It is possible to allow for intelligent discussion and actually listen to people who disagree with you.
the unvax should have to get a tattoo on the forehead. the unvax are the ones who cause all the problems. if we can eliminate the unvaxed we all would be better off
@Doug: I don’t know what data you are citing but natural immunity is WORSE than the vaccines, at least the mRNA ones and Sputnik. That had been definitively shown months ago when people who had ‘natural’ infection with the initial virus were getting reinfected with variants, particularly in Brazil. Please stop sharing misinformation no matter how good your intentions may be.
In fact, that’s why multi-step vaccines are all more effective than single shot variants and boosters are being considered – the subsequent doses stimulate responses against variants (current and future) whereas actual infection does not and is primed only against the variant you contracted.
@drrichard Take a look at the interstate border controls in Australia for how it works. I’m not saying that we should do that, nor that it would be impermeable, but interstate traffic *could* be severely restricted.
JOJO, All of the Vaxed are so quick to judge. You are the ones that are spreading the virous!!
I have natural immunity to the virous because I have had covid! you my friend are the one that got the shot and are spreading it to everyone. Just look at the cases that are “break thru” as they call it!
Get a life all of you vaxers, I bet you all think abortion is good LOL, MY body MY choice!!
Seems like many readers of this blog never bothered to read Mr. Orwell’s 1984… or are too stupid to grasp the warning therein.
Terrifying!
If everyone eventually loses their freedoms in this country, we know who to blame….
The vast majority of interstate travel occurs on interstate highways. The threat from covid is so severe I think that border crossing gates on the interstate and federal highway systems are not enough. The entire network of federal interstate freeways and highways needs to be dismantled immediately. These systems allow Americans way to much freedom of movement. And if not in the name of Covid, surely this can be justified in the name of global warming. (and don’t forget it’s for the children)
@ JO JO
Check your history, the tattoo is usually on the inside of your arm. Eliminate the what?
@Amazing Larry – you sound just as clueless as Rep. Cawthorn who tried to make the same argument this week…stick to checkers, not chess
Let the anti vaxxers live in their conspiracy theory world, but stop them from spreading disease and death (and causing limits on our freedoms). We can defeat COVID and we can all have more freedom again when we get serious about it.
1) End the negative test requirement for entering the U.S., and put in a vaccine requirement instead.
2) Require vaccination for boarding all commercial air, rail and bus conveyances.
3) End the mask mandates for travel since the anti vaxxers won’t be aboard.
Exception can be made for now for those under 12 and for those with medically certified inability to be vaccinated.
“If everyone eventually loses their freedoms in this country, we know who to blame….” This freedom idea continues to blow my mind. Vaccines, masking, social distancing and some basic common sense steps are what GIVE us freedom. not take it away. I just don’t understand the perverse logic. You want to be free to travel, to eat in restaurants, to go to social events, to interact with people, to protect and respect yourself and others? Then shut up and do what you need to and enjoy your freedom and live your life. Since the “freedom fighters” will continue to propagate this perverse logic and flip reality on its head, the only choice is more laws rules so we can all be free and get through the next few years. I couldn’t give a flying f**k about what temporary rules and procedures and restrictions I have to live by as long as I can continue to travel and live. That is real freedom.
The problem is covid is endemic. It wont ever go away. Science says we will all need yearly vaccines for life. I think everyone should remember those facts before supporting and allowing the government to take these measures. They will never go away.
And QR codes? Does anyone remember this is the country that lied about spying on its own citizens and allies? Yes but libtard trust the QR codes wont be used for spying and tracking movements and behaviors. Soon the government will be demanding we scan all our food bought to make sure its part of each individuals approved diets.
With all the talk about vaccine passports and San Francisco requiring proof of vaccine for indoor businesses with no option for negative test or natural immunity from having the virus, and the city and county of Los Angeles seriously considering same, I think we are where Germany was in 1935 give or take a year. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I would rather see more people die than live in a “Papers Please” society. Furthermore anything the federal government of the USA does is hypocritical without closing the southern border.
Good…I wish they would do this.
If someone’s too afraid of getting a shot they can stay safe at home until they feel comfortable to get it and rejoin society.
“because they don’t see things the same way that they do”
Haha, you don’t actually think this but you do parrot the talking points well. Those who choose to not vaccinate should be shunted aside, they are a danger to the rest of us. We know how to control this we just need the will to forget about the uneducated and get on with the mission.
Dems love telling people what to do.
Don, someone has to. You’re welcome.
Except for paying their rent. Then they love telling people not to do it.
Nice sentence structure. That aside, yes, the poorly educated sometimes need a helping hand, Don. Again, happy to assist.
@Business traveler – literally no one has ever gotten Covid more than once. Nope none at all.
What’s that? Lamar Jackson? Look him up. Far from the only one.
Ignorance must be nice.
Let’s have a GHB mandate for young boys! But only clean ones!
There was a Supreme Court decision in 1902. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts, SCOTUS decided that the state of Massachusetts could force all citizens to be vaccinated for small pox. That decision still stands. The Court’s decision articulated the view that individual liberty is not absolute and is subject to the police power of the state.
So all you antivaxxers, keep pushing the issue. Covid is not going away because of YOU! Every time another person gets infected, there is the chance for another mutation. Every new host creates the chances for more variants, making Covid endemic. It will never go away!
@JohnB but the Court relied on the state’s general police powers that don’t exist at the federal level
Why are we all up in arms about the US being vaccinated and not addressing the issue of the boarder?! They are coming in by the thousands. Not tested. Not vaccinated. They come on the planes sick.
Yet no one seems to care? We could ALL be vaccinated and it wouldn’t stop the spread as long as we continue to leave the boarder wide open for all to enter. Sick or not. Let’s focus more on that. We should be demanding the boarder be closed & see if that stops the spread before we beat one another up for maybe not being able to get the vaccine.
People are so one sided and REFUSE to educate themselves past what THEY believe to be true. Shame on ALL of you!
What happened to America First?
I don’t care what YOU decide to do. It is completely up to each individual but I will NEVER accuse anyone of spreading the virus while the boarder crisis remains the biggest threat to us ALL.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
We need all the help we can can get!
It’s border, not boarder, details are important. Just as the “details” in your post are important.
You may have heard of contact tracing, this is how we know and where covid is being spread. You may ‘believe’ that that immigrants are spreading the disease but tracing tells us that you are incorrect.
Americans need to stop whining and get the vaccine.
How in the world can you say the massive invasion of illegal’s being facilitated by facilitated by a clueless socialistic administration is not exponentially spreading the virus. They are being literally herded into cattlecar transports and unceremoniously dumped into unsuspecting cities in the middle of the night to vanish before sunrise!
Oh boy, tucker’s certainly got your ear.
Let’s just leave this here.