Bilt is refreshing their credit card and moving from Wells Fargo to Cardless. There will be three cards, not just one, and details will be announced next week. However some enterprising members found card details in Bilt code and those are now being widely discussed.
Since there are other cards buried in the code – Home ($0), Titanium ($95), and Platinum ($495) – along with different value propositions I’m not so sure the leak that is going around is exactly the final, full version that’ll be announced soon.
However here’s the best idea we have so far of what Bilt will be offering:
Bilt Blue Card
Annual fee: $0
Welcome bonus: $100 Bilt Cash
Rewards:
4% Bilt Cash on everyday spend
1X points on rent, mortgage, and everyday spendBenefits:
No foreign transaction fees
Neighborhood Benefits program
Use Bilt Cash to waive rent and mortgage transaction feesBilt Obsidian Card
Annual fee: $95
Welcome bonus: $200 Bilt CashRewards:
4% Bilt Cash on everyday spend
3X points on dining or grocery (choice of one; grocery up to $25K/year)
2X points on travel
1X points on rent, mortgage, and everyday spendBenefits:
$100 Bilt Travel hotel credit ($50 every six months)
Cellular Telephone Protection
Use Bilt Cash to waive rent and mortgage transaction feesBilt Palladium Card
Annual fee: $495
Welcome bonus:
50,000 Bilt Points + Gold Status (after $4,000 spend in first 3 months)
$300 Bilt CashRewards:
4% Bilt Cash on everyday spend
2X points on everyday spend
1X points on rent and mortgageBenefits:
$400 Bilt Travel hotel credit ($200 every six months)
$200 Bilt Cash annually
Priority Pass
Use Bilt Cash to waive rent and mortgage transaction feesEdit – Added note as per u/Adventurous-Bad2072 – rent/mortgage will not be “fee free” instead you will offset it with Bilt cash. You earn 4% Bilt cash on non rent spend.
They’ll award points for rent and mortgage payments, but for that to be free you’ll need to spend 75% of the payment on non-rent and mortgage spend. Otherwise there’s a fee, but you can use Bilt Cash (earned from a card’s initial bonus or from spend or milestone rewards) to cover it. One of the problems with the original Bilt card is that cardmembers were using it to pay rent but not enough other spend.
Here’s how I’m thinking of this. At the amount of your rent or mortgage payment you’re earning an extra 1.3 points per dollar. So, say you escrow property taxes and insurance and your mortgage payment is $4,000 per month. Spend $3,000 monthly on the $495 card and you’ll earn 10,000 points each month. That’s actually a pretty great return.
I don’t love another $200 hotel credit every six months, just because I’m already loaded up on hotel credits from Amex Platinum, Sapphire Reserve, and Strata Elite. But these can be direct book hotels through Bilt’s portal, so honestly this is going to be pretty easy to use. That helps cover the card’s hefty annual fee, so it’s not just an expensive card buying another Priority Pass. We don’t know terms on the Priority Pass either yet – whether it covers guests, whether it covers non-lounge participating locations.
Ultimately what could make these cards really valuable is earning Bilt cash to spend with their partners or to qualify for elite status-based Rent Day benefits like big transfer bonuses. A 4% rebate in Bilt cash to spend with merchants in Bilt’s network – on top of points – could be… wow.
Here’s why I don’t think the no annual fee card makes sense, though – you need to spend $3,000 on that card to get $4,000 in rent or mortgage payment fee-free. But you’re only earning 1 point per dollar on that $3,000 in spend. The $95 card, if it earns 3x on your choice of dining or groceries, could offer the highest return on spend provided that you’re looking at a $2,000 rent or mortgage payment and can max out spending in the category.
Interestingly, one named card in various iterations of the products is Obsidian, and that appears to offer Mirror finish for $50 which is a little odd. Amex Platinum at a much higher fee includes this free, their version is cool, but I wouldn’t pay extra for it. Again, we don’t know if that’s actually final or was just someone’s idea that got loaded up onto a server.
Of course since Obsidian may not even be one of the final products, it’s unclear that Mirror finish (or Mirror finish for pay) is in the final version. And we’ll have to wait until next week to see.
R.I.P. BILT.
If your rent/mortgage is $5,000/mo, you’d need to spend an additional $3,750 in non-rent to ‘breakeven’ on the new 3% fee to pay using your card.
D.O.A.
Gary says: “Here’s how I’m thinking of this.”
Gary means: If BILT flies me on BLADE to their HQ some more, I’ll keep saying this card ‘great’ again. (Too harsh? Naw. Take the heat. C’mon, man, this is sinking ship.)
2.0 is simply ‘no-bueno.’ I truly wish WF was stoopid enough to stickin’ around and continue BLOWING $10 million per month on funding my monthly transfers to Hyatt/Alaska. Darn.
Guess I’m in the minority but I’ve written a check for my houses for last 20 years and haven’t had a mortgage. “first world problem” I know to write a 7 figure check to buy a house but greatly diminishes the value of a card like this for me.
@Retired Gambler — Ironically, you’ve been ‘leaving money on the table,’ sir, if you were to rent, at least since 2021, when BILT started allowing renters to earn points on rent with no fees. On February 7, we say goodbye to that era, and welcome whatever slippity-slop this all is.
Is Bilt just counting on people to be too stupid to math out this product? It doesn’t make sense, so hopefully this is not the final iteration. I certainly won’t be keeping it if so. RIP Bilt
They’re moving to Amex?! I thought they were going to Cardless…
@Chase — That’s a bingo! And a few cucks-for-BILT on other sites, seem to be buying it. LOL.
@Adam L — They are going to Cardless. Gary messed up. Oof.
@Gary:L Howc muxch i a penny of BILT cash worth?
Thks.
Any word if this will impact paying rent with an atmos cc ? At least with that its 3x rent and no bilt cash shennanigans
The math says “use me as yoir primary card” and if you do there is great vakue with the 495 card. If you instead view this as a “whats in your wallet” one of many it makes little sense. Which ia great for Cardless …. the i use it sometimes people will disappear. And great for those of us who do use it as our everyday card becuase its a positive feedback loop. I see this as a huge win.
” At the amount of your rent or mortgage payment you’re earning an extra 1.3 points per dollar. ”
Explain.
@John — Would love to know about that, too. If Atmos Summit survives this with no 3% fee, it’s the clear winner. I highly doubt BILT would allow it to cannibalize its own cards, though.
Not said is whether the attractive transfers to partners on rent day will continue. They could be a casualty of the change.
@Michael R. Lissack — “BILT 2.0… we cater to idiots and the 1%…” Great new motto.
The Gumby’s in this are WF. They already have all these BILT holders as Johns. They could keep them at a much lower CAC than searching for new customers just by showing some initiative.
How do we know rent/mortgage fees are 3%?
@L3 — How fun with the analogies. Instead of referring Johns, if we instead took the kid’s version of Gumby, I’d say, those who gleefully partake in BILT 2.0 are Blockheads. I’m Pokey. “Holy Toledo!”
That $10B valuation is going to up in smoke when the conversion rates < 50%. At least that nepo baby grifter Ankur got to be a paper billionaire and hang out with celebrities on VC and Gary's money…
@L3 — Currently, BILT (and other services like Plastiq) charge ~3% for using credit cards to pay for rent; BILT just happens to waive that fee for those with its Mastercard (by WF). That’s all about to change, namely the ‘waiving’ part. Major blow to those who enjoyed this for years.
@L3 — On ‘attractive transfers to partners on rent day’ you seem to be referred to the ‘bonuses’ on rent day, often higher with their ‘status.’ Yeah, there’ve been some good ones, like Accor, etc. There’s no indication those would end, but, also, there’s no ‘guarantee’ they’ll continue either. Not really the issue at hand. Over time, they have reduced ‘nice things’ like limiting rent day bonus to 1,000 points, and getting rid of rent day trivia (250 points). Eh.
@BonvoyedAgain — On the contrary, VC money is gonna love this. Consumers (and those of us who ‘play the game’ loathe this.) BILT will hype this to the moon. Expect ads on TV, podcasts, and lots of promotion from folks like Gary in the coming weeks and months. If enough dumb-dumbs pay that 3% fee, then BILT actually makes money. If only WF would’ve seen this, they’d’ve probably stayed. But, then the ‘magic’ of earning 1% on rent while paying no fees would never have happened. The golden goose is about to die, friends. One more month to enjoy it.
@L3: Per the BILT site:
“What is Bilt Cash worth?
Bilt Cash provides fixed redemption value when used for eligible purchases and experiences in the Bilt ecosystem. For example, this means $10 of Bilt Cash could be redeemed for a $10 credit to use when you book a fitness class.
@1990: Thanks for the 3% clarification.
On my ohter Q. Do you think WF is missing the boat here (possibly one leaving Caracas-on-Sea full of oil)?
@Adam L. said: ” They’re moving to Amex?! I thought they were going to Cardless…”
FYI: My Cardless Avianca card uses the American Express network for charges. However, it does not show up as a card on my American Express website.
However, Gary’s picture of BILT has a MasterCard symbol. Personally, I would prefer MasterCard or Visa over Amex as they are more widely accepted.
I am going to stick my neck out here: Assume:
1) you don’t rent or pay a mortgage;
2) Priority Pass is worthles (i.e. duplicative);
Then the Palladium Card is no-brainer in terms of net benefit. The signup points, gratis BILT cash, and travel credits make is worth > $495. One could even argue it is the best value.
I think a lot of the people announcing they are leaving BILT will reconsider when they do the math (as best we know it) and, in particular, see that BILT points are essentially free food at nice restaurants.
Second conclusion: The Blue Card is too expensive unless you pay rent. That is its only benefit that is not ‘dominated’ (in the math. sense) by other brands’ cards;
@1990 I’m a seed investor in multiple PE and VC deals. They love whatever garbage Ankur and Richard told them, in order to get into the next Series round, which was likely 97% conversions with 25% of that being the highest tier card. Those forecasts NEVER work out. Reddit is destroying the card changes right now. Bilt will spend a TON on marketing with the fresh VC capital these next 6 months and have its valuation slashed 90% in 1 year. Just look at Brex.
And I posted on the blogs that WF would drop out eventually a year ago when the $10M loss/month news came out, but all the bloggers said I was full of it. Having a big bank drop out hurt the possibility of an exit. This is dead money.
@BonvoyedAgain — Exactly. A total landfill. Filth. I’ve spoken my mind on here and elsewhere (see DoC, Frequent Miler, OMAAT, etc.) The forced-hype on this is gonna be gargantuan. Mastodon-ic.
And, when that sugar-high is finally over, those VCs are due for a reckoning. And, this time I hope no one gets bailed out. Let them fail.
@L3 — The first Priority Pass is worth something, especially if it’s the O.G. Chase version with restaurants (RIP). The 2nd PP is worthless. The 8th PP is a Salvador Dalí painting of absurdity.
@Other Just Saying — Ugh, fine, unnecessary nuance between card network/processor (Amex) and card issuer (Cardless, but could also be Amex, as with other cards).
Let’s be super clear here: The major changes with BILT is not the card network/processor (Mastercard to Amex); it’s the issuer (from Wells Fargo, a too-big-to-fail bank that was backing BILT to the amount of $10 million in costs, to Cardless, a sub-par Fintech that’ll probably fail within a year, and is notorious for no-notice shutdowns of other products and awful tech), and also the benefits/program terms (no longer going to be 1 point per dollar of rent without fees; likely nerf’d.)
Re: Brex I was referring to when they dumped a lot of VC money in marketing with huge sign up bonuses and then dropped everyone that destroyed their valuation. They’ve rebounded since then as they’ve focused on business services. Bilt is different as they focus on consumers , so they won’t have ability to rebound like Brex has.
@BonvoyedAgain — 100%. BILT is relying on consumers to engage in excessive spend when the economy is shitting the bed for most of their customers, but for the 1%. Bad timing. Kudos to them for fleecing Wells Fargo for as long as they did. Like, honestly, THAT was impressive.
Bye bye Bilt.
Will be .in any posting regarding rent payment & Alaska strategies
If the $95 version came with low level Bilt status and unlocked 1:1 Rakuten transfers, I’d probably get it just for that. I don’t really feel like getting a $495 version to play yet another coupon game just for Alaska miles. But will run the math when the real terms come out.
Leaks though may or may not be accurate (or may help inform what the final terms will be). AA’s leak was not the final terms on new AAdvantage program updates for instance. LP bonus cap is 25k not 15k. That makes a big difference to me. Maybe they did a soft leak, read the feedback, and tweaked it. Possible that’s what’s going on here.
As for Bilt… the fact that they are not ‘ready to go’ with a launch campaign yet is concerning, as is giving only 3 weeks of info for the WF roll over. Must be a complete mess behind the scenes, and I do wonder if the mortgage bit is biting off more than they can chew.
It was clear that Bilt 1.0 was a loss leader. Happens to be I don’t think all the cards are that bad. The $495 annual fee one is ironically the most attractive. Good everyday card that earns valuable points, so you will earn the Bilt cash to cover the mortgage/rent fees, as you will actually want to use the card and the $200 twice a year, any hotel, any length of stay, through the portal that is not overpriced, almost covers the annual fee.
This seems like a card where the financials work for both the bank and consumer.
Where cards lose are where you have to keep spreadsheets to keep track of benefits that you can only use on a blue moon.
@Peter — The leaks and speculation have been so much fun though… yeah, they’re definitely ‘fishing’ these days. And, not only are they doing this transition, they’re literally moving from 31 Bond St. to 837 Washington St. (probably because ‘the rent is too damn high!’)
@Common Sense — Eh, more of a loss-loser for Wells Fargo. As for the new products, rumors aside, how is the $495’s coupon book of semi-annual hotel portal credits not a spreadsheet activity?
Maybe I’m an idiot, but mortgage payments are high-$, low-volume transactions – the economy of scale on them has got to be massive. So why has no card issuer has gotten together with the payment network and said “OK, we’ll let our existing cardholders pay their mortgage for 1x points, with a 1% fee, and we’ll split up that penny as follows:
*$0.0033 to Visa/Mastercard
*$0.0033 to Citi/Chase/XYZbank
*$0.0033 to the co-brand parter to buy the 1x point”
???