News and notes from around the interweb:
- A Brazilian low cost carrier is bidding for bankrupt Silver Airways subsidiary Seaborne so it would have to be the case that voting rights are transferred to American affiliates or a neutral trustee and that Seaborne management would be substantially American, in order to avoid exceeding limits on foreign control of U.S. carriers.
- Relatedly I went down a rabbit hole on restrictions on foreign airlines operating in the U.S. and a locally-owned airline in American Samoa wouldn’t technically be allowed to fly from American Samoa. Residents there are predominantly U.S. nationals but not U.S. citizens! So every six months DOT has to grant an emergency waiver.
Meanwhile, as a good reminder that foreign ownership isn’t the predominant issue it’s foreign control former Delta President & COO (and U.S. citizen) Fred Reid was forced to step down as founding CEO of Virgin America as a condition of that carrier getting approval – DOT felt his employment contract gave Virgin Atlantic too much control. This old video of Reid telling the story about starting up Virgin America is worth a watch or listen:
- American’s first class sliders as a pre-order meal option were abruptly pulled last month due to a supply chain issue but they have now returned.
- No, no, no, no, no.
If the 2 next chairs to you are open on a flight, should you be allowed to put your bare feet up as a footrest as seen here on this return flight to Toronto? pic.twitter.com/DRLH02d0eU
— Leviathan (@l3v1at4an) June 21, 2025
- Why 1,500 Hours Doesn’t Guarantee a Safer Pilot and What We Should Do Instead
- Delta Air Lines hiring a new lobbyist “Demonstrated experience and ties with the Democratic Caucus.”
@Tim Dunn — On that Delta lobbying, while I prefer that party, isn’t that an odd choice, given at least for the next 1.5 years, Congress is either inept or controlled by the other party? Load of Biscoffs.
Gary’s weekly dose of lowering requirements for…what?
Why do you advocate for lower experience and hours (again and again)? We know why you want lower requirements, but you won’t flat out say it.
There is no more pilot shortage, there is no bottleneck, and airlines don’t hire (and never have hired) 1500 hour wonders with your magical “tethered balloon time).
Also, your “source” is an absolute joke of a website.
You dont even have a student license Gary! What makes you an expert on pilot experience?
@Kb — Speaking of balloons, did you see that horrifying accident in Brazil recently? Yikes.
@Kb – lower hours is not lower experience! mindless hours aren’t experience. structured training would be far better.
Gary,
Thats why every flight school has a training program, its also why theyve reduced hours for certain programs.
At some point, experience matters. Which is why most jobs require some sort of multi year experience beyond schooling. Why not advocate for training programs (which already exist) AND hours.
@Kb – If there’s no pilot shortage then why has pilot pay continued to skyrocket? It was grossly unfair when starting pilots were getting paid $28,000 a year but $100,000 a year to start is awfully high, more so when you realize that pilots can pull in close to a million a year if they want. To me, that says that we have a severe pilot shortage. Part of the reason Southwest is in their current situation is because they had to fork out giant raises for their pilots.
Christian,
Legacy pilots are starting at 100k, but no one starts there. You fly for smaller carriers that dont pay much.
It hasnt “continued to skyrocket”. Its getting back to the mean. As you admitted, they were grossly underpaid and treated poorly for 20ish years.
Again, this gets to the crux of the issue: the airlines are not cancelling flights because the dont have pilots. You and Gary are just upset at Legacy pilot salaries.
Southwest is not in the position theyre in because of the new salaries. Read any article (including on this website) for the past year. Outdated business model.
How many pilots are pulling in a million a year?? Citation needed.
@Kb – Regarding your claim that pilots were underpaid, except starting pilots – which I specifically mentioned – salaries were good to exceptional.
Southwest’s cost structure works fine when pilots are “only” making a couple hundred thousand dollars a year. When they want what other big USA airlines are paying then the low cost premise doesn’t work. That’s where they are now. There are other factors as well of course but pilot pay is a huge factor.
Pay source: several, including pilots I know but Reddit says:
Yes, some pilots can earn $1 million a year, but it typically takes several years and requires specific conditions. Here’s a breakdown of the factors and timelines involved:
I stand by my assertion on starting pilot pay. Ask some, you’ll see.
Christian,
Pilot pay is NOT a “huge factor”. If it was, it would be mentioned numerous times, vice the one time I’ve seen it (you). The NYT article “How Southwest Lost its Groove” never mentions crew pay.
Regarding pilot pay: Reddit and a guy you know? Again [citation needed].
Why do you advocate for lower pay?
Why do you defend Gary, an actual millionaire, advocating for lower wages of people who make less than him?
@Kb – I have nothing against pilots but I think your view of them as downtrodden is a mischaracterization. I think that most groups making a third of a million to a million dollars a year are disproportionately wealthy and even though I’m in a significantly lower economic echelon than them I’m willing to pay more in taxes to help those less fortunate than myself. Ultimately, even as a business owner I’m pretty much a moderate socialist. Poor people get hosed regularly in this country. We need to help them. Remember the last time airline pilots went on – or even talked about going on – a sympathy strike for flight attendants to help another group? Me neither.
Christian,
Eastern Airlines. There have been single digit strikes since then with little effect.
No one said theyre downtrodden. What does helping lower income people have to do with anything were talking about? Youre moving the goalposts now, alluding to pilots not paying more in taxes and that youre some hero for “willing” to pay more in taxes. Yes we need to help poor people. That was never part of any conversation.
I dont care what pilots make, what you make. I care that Gary uses his platform to advocate for lower wages. So again, why do you and Gary advocate to lower pilot wages when it doesnt affect you?
@Kb @Christian — Please keep this ‘fire’ alive. I love a good roast! “Fight! Fight! Fight!”
Both pilots involved in the Colgan Air accident had more than 1500 hours, that number was a knee jerk reaction by the FAA to placate Congress. The captain of that flight had been flagged before and should have never been in command.
My airline career begin with 95% military pilots (even a couple of helo guys) one low time civilian, all completed 30+ years without accidents or incidents. The military pool dried up when they began requiring ten years after winging.
The airlines motion simulators are as.close as one can come for training to actual emergency and low weather conditions, now a TEMbrief. CRM has been a factor in training crews for fifty years. There have been factors that have put pressure on airlines to retain under represented groups, however piloting skills are not always a trainable skill. Some have an innate natural skill in all groups, the cream rises to the top.
The 1500 hour rule has done more to impede pilot recruitment over costs and job requirements that don’t meet airline standards. Lufthansa trained young student pilots in Arizona on Beech A36 Bonanzas and returned them to Germany into the right seats of jet airlines without problems. The U.S. airlines should create a pool and make a similar program available for qualified applicants.
I speak from a military, airline, FAA training and civilian background.
Av8reb,
Lufthansa has ~5000 pilots, required to speak English AND German. So you could say they’re picking from a fairly homogenous group that can compare individuals easier.
Asking the big 5 airlines in the USA to do that is an extraordinary amount of money that doesn’t guarantee payoff, we’re talking over 60k pilots for the big 5 alone.
Who’s gonna pay for it? The airlines? I’d ask them first. Their cadet programs have been less than stellar, and those people were hand-picked to be part of a small group.