I’m going to say a bit today about the current status of ‘Bluebird’ and ‘Vanilla Reloads’ as a mileage-earning strategy, and offer some tips for folks that are already pursuing that strategy to do it even bigger while also offering something to the folks that haven’t been able to take advantage so far because they cannot find Vanilla Reload cards in their area that can be purchased with a credit card.
Buying Money with Money
Vanilla Reload cards — the holy grail, the ability to buy money on a credit card and use the money to pay off credit cards while earning points in the process — can be difficult to find in some cities, and folks run into all sorts of different policies when trying to purchase them.
I’ve written about these cards in the past. The simplest thing, once you’ve found them, is to use them to load an American Express Bluebird card.
Everyone should have one of those cards, if they don’t already, they do require a social security number when you sign up but don’t run your credit. They’ll send you a free card in the mail.
It’s a product for the ‘unbanked’ — it’s an online bank account of sorts, combined with a debit card, you can make purchases or use online billpay or take cash out of an ATM.
It’s also the mileage junkie’s best friend because it lets you buy money (Vanilla Reload, or load fundsat Walmart with a mileage-earning debit card) and liquidate the money back into a bank account, my preferred method is billpay since you can have checks sent to anyone you wish.
Finding Vanilla Reload Cards
Office Depot no longer sells Vanilla Reload cards, that’s a shame because you could earn 5 miles per dollar using cards that bonus office supply spend.
One workaround, for folks that have access to Vanilla Reloads, has been to buy American Express gift cards at Office Depot for the 5 miles per dollar and then use the gift card to purchase Vanilla Reload cards at another store. It’s more expensive but still worth the points.
The problem is that Vanilla Reloads aren’t everyone, and not every place that carries them will accept credit cards for their purchase. So it’s a scavenger hunt, some people give up frustrated.
Alex’s local CVS now only takes cash but these policies always seem to vary by store — sometimes stores only accept cash. Other times cash or debit. Some place a limit on how much they’ll sell you in a day.
Here’s a story that shows just how much ‘your mileage may vary’ these policies are. And each store has a different story for what their policy is, why it’s like that, and often they relay that the policy applies to all stores in their chain when you’ll find another store in the same city with a different policy.
Some stores believe these are popular amongst drug dealers. Well, we all need to get our fix somehow. In this case, we’re just mileage junkies.
But bottom-line is you need to visit your local CVS and Walgreens stores especially (although Dollar General works too if there’s one nearby), and then suss out what policy will be enforced.
It’s Worth the Time to Search
Vanilla Reloads — along with free transfers up to $1000 a month via Amazon Payments — remain one of the best ways to meet minimum spend for a credit card signup bonus, and it also lets you do things like pay bills which don’t normally accept credit cards (like rent or mortgage) and earn miles.
That’s because American Express Bluebird cards, where most folks put put Vanilla Reload funds onto, allow you to use those funds with their bill payment option where they send checks. So you can effectively buy money with a credit card, then use that money to pay off the credit card. Or use the money to pay rent or mortgage.
Going Beyond Bluebird’s $5000 a Month Limit with Vanilla Reloads
For folks that are the true ‘haves’ amongst mileage collectors — those that have found stashes of Vanilla Reloads they can purchase with a credit card — the greatest wish is to go beyond the $5000 limit per month that Bluebird imposes.
Those folks should consider the My Vanilla Debit card (“My Vanilla Personal Reloadable Prepaid Visa card”). And others can get into the game, too, even without Vanilla Reloads, which I’ll get to in a minute.
You can load $2500 per day onto the card, and can have a balance on it of up to $9999. There’s no billpay function, they charge for ATM withdrawals, and they charge 50 cents for each transactions. Ouch, right?
No. Because as Dan’s Deals wrote earlier in the month, you can get a cash advance at a bank for 50 cents regardless of the amount you’re requesting.
Some banks will only work with a permanent card if you want the cash advance. You can only get up to 3 permanent cards (per person, they register to your social security number, of course each member of your household can have three).
The permanent cards are what you want if you have access to Vanilla Reloads at a Walgreens or CVS near you. Because you then can go well beyond the $1000 per day / $5000 per calendar month limit that Bluebird imposes. And the cash advance fee of 50 cents is the same, whether you’re taking out $500 or $9500.
Reports are that Chase banks can be iffy for this — some don’t like to do it at all, some won’t do it on temporary cards. Lots of positive results with Bank of America. Really, though, it all comes down to whether you have access to a bank that is willing to participate.
Using This Strategy Without Vanilla Reloads
The best case scenario is to find a bank willing to take the temporary cards that you buy at CVS. There’s a $3.95 fee per $500 card, go to a bank and take out all but 50 cents (the cash advance fee).
And do that without limit, you no longer need to worry about finding Vanilla Reload cards at all.
Two Strategies for MyVanilla Debit Cards
That leaves us with two ways to maximize these cards:
- If you can find Vanilla Reload cards that you can purchase with a credit card, max out by getting up to 3 registered MyVanilla Debit cards and you can load up to $2500 x 3 per day. And if you have a bank near you that will give you cash advances, you can take the full balance off each card for a 50 cent fee.
- If you do not have Vanilla Reloads available near you, you want to find a bank that will allow you to cash out temporary cards. These are the ones you buy at CVS for $500 plus $3.95 fee and then cash them out en masse for a 50 cash advance fee apiece.
If you’re in the odd situation of being able to find Vanilla Reload cards but not MyVanilla Debit cards, you can order a starter card online.
(Some folks may even have one of these laying around, I’ve gotten emails from readers that accidently bought these cards instead of Vanilla reloads on their first attempt to fund a Bluebird card.)
A Word of Caution
If you do lots of these over and over with a single credit card or single credit card issuer they may not like it.
Some folks are afraid of American Express ‘financial reviews’ (they want to see lots of financial information like tax returns to make sure you’re able to pay back the credit they’re extending). This scares or enrages some, I’ve always viewed it as a cost of doing business with them.
And I’m always cautious with Citibank because they have a tendency to consider lots of things as cash advances (which don’t earn miles, but do accrue interest). When I’ve opened bank accounts where the initial funding can be done by credit card, I’ve generally done it with a Chase card rather than one from Citibank (even when the bank I was opening the account with was Citi!). Although I don’t see how these purchases would get flagged that way.
But go slow, mix up the cards you’re using for purchase.
This takes work.
You’re going to have to do some of your own investigations if you want to pursue this strategy.
- You need to get out in your town, or wherever you’re traveling, and find Vanilla Reload cards and see what stores that have them are willing to take credit cards for their purchase. Be prepared to be refused, then you have to try another store.
- You need to go into a bank, maybe several. Peronally I’d buy one MyVanilla Debit card and experiment. If I couldn’t ever find a bank willing to give me a $499.50 cash advance for my $500 card, I could always liquidate the card through Amazon payments or fund my Kiva account with it.
This isn’t a ‘sit at your computer terminal, or just hop over to Office Depot’ kind of thing.
It takes investigation and local sleuthing, but when you’ve found the stores that have what you need you’re able to churn out large quantities of miles every month at very little relative cost.
@JettyBoy he is a troll who certainly has my email address. He has also lied repeatedly in the comments here.
All the CVS’s around me in Northern Virginia are now cash only.
Yep, would love to see these “emails” from Chase…
Curtis, they are NOT “emails” but physical letters from the Chase executive offices in Illinois…
My offer to email scans of the letters to Gary would be under the condition that they are not publically posted, as from the personalized content of them, anyone reading the blog from Chase would be able to make the connection, as they are not form letters, and were individually written by certain people at Chase who signed them. If Gary agrees not to post them, I have no problem emailing him scans though as I think he is trustworthy. Without confirmation that they will not be posted though, not going to email them…
Just black out/remove your personal info in those letters.
Tri, right, the problem is that the content of the letter, i.e. the specific wording of the sentences is personalized and would still be easy for anyone from Chase to identify if reading the blog, even with name/address/acct number/etc. blacked out. And FTG has previously posted that Chase admitted to him that they read all the blogs daily:
http://www.frugaltravelguy.com/2012/06/my-visit-with-the-credit-card-companies.html
Agree with Tri. Black out anything you want in scan. At a min send to Gary though.
@Have you seen… I would be happy to summarize the letters you scan and send to me, I will not post the letters themselves.
Gary, thanks for confirming, I will get them scanned and emailed to you by tonight then.
I walked into my local Chase branch and asked for a $500 cash advance with my temporary (no name) MyVanilla Debit card. Got it, no issues.
Maybe I got lucky, but it can be done.
Jose, but had you registered it online first before cash advancing it or no? That is they key difference being discussed here. I think everyone agrees that the nameless cards can be cash advanced AFTER being registered online (no need for the permanent card)…
Jose, $500 you say? Hmmm, guess there’s a priority access with no fee option?
Ok, just emailed scans of some of the Chase account closure letters to you Gary. Please confirm that you received them ok when you get a chance.
Thanks
@Have you even… did email scans of correspondence. They indicate that his accounts were closed for violating the rules of the program, but the letters do not detail what activities were undertaken that led to the closure.
So there’s nothing new in the letters as far as I can tell. We’ve seen account closures for transferring points from Chase personal cards to people outside the household of the cardmember. And we’ve seen account closures for setting up autoscripts to make large numbers of 1 cent purchases using Chase Freedom cards that were earning a minimum of 12 points per transaction through the Chase Exclusives program.
These letters do not detail exactly what behavior triggered the closures in this case.
Do you need a pin for cash advances?? I can’t seem to find a pin on my vanilla debit card which I applied months ago.
Appreciate the followup Gary. My accounts were not closed for points transfers as those people received form letters which some people posted, my letters have nothing to do with that. You are correct, the letters do not list “OD” by name in them. However, in the 3rd letter in the 2nd paragraph (personal letter from an assistant VP at Chase), it states “based on a thorough review of your transactions, we believe the account and rewards program were not being used in accordance with rewards program rules and regulations.” That is pretty strong statement that indicates they did not like my transaction activity. If I were to email you my Ink statements, it would show approx. 75% of the transactions (by volume) were done at OD, so interpret as you wish there.
Further, on in the 3rd letter (2nd to last paragraph) it explicitly states at one point, “if there is any fraud or ABUSE related to the ACCRUAL of points. So, they clearly stated they did not like my transaction activity after thoroughly reviewing it and stated they believe there was “abuse related to the accrual of points”…
I apologize if I made it sound as if OD was mentioned by name, but the letters explicit wording quoted above, combined with the activity on my account made it quite clear to me why they were closed, in addition to personal telephone conversations (which the letters repeatedly reference) with AVP’s and VP’s in the Chase executive office, who were not easy to get a hold of, and the last VP who did mention verbally (OD transactions on account #XXXXX at one point during one call).
So, I guess the bottom line is its clear the accounts were not closed for points transfers (those people all got form letters referencing that), and I have no idea how to script thousands of one cent charges, nor did I have the checking account required for that. Short of sending you my Ink statement, I’m not sure what else could be done to convinvvce you or anyone else. So, I guess interpret it as you wish, but I thought the personal nature and individual wording of the letters along with the quoted wording was pretty strong evidence.
In any event, thanks again for allowing me to email you the letters and summarizing them for readers….
“These letters do not detail exactly what behavior triggered the closures in this case.”
I think that is a fair statement. Only thing they explicitly listed was that they didn’t like my transactions after thoroughly reviewing them and that there was “abuse related to the ACCRUAL of points”. Of course its possible I could have been using another abusive way to accrue points, but given this was on an Ink card, the easiest way to accrue points as everyone knows is at OD, OM, etc. As usual, at the end of the day I think everyone has to decide for themselves what level of activity and/or risk if any they are comfortable taking. Thanks again.
@70 Thank you for sharing the info. I agree with you on this part “As usual, at the end of the day I think everyone has to decide for themselves what level of activity and/or risk if any they are comfortable taking.”
@Have you seen… I guess my reaction was, I’m not disbelieving you, but I could read those same letters and think you were one of the folks who was running scripts to make one cent purchases with a Chase Freedom card, earning 12 points per purchase.
I maxed out my 50k office supply bonus category by October last year and my ink bold account is still alive and well. I haven’t looked to see if there is a ratio of office spend to regular spend but I’m sure the office spend is a high percentage.
the “holy grail” part of this is being able to cash advance without registering MVD online. i tried at 2 banks today and both transactions were declined. i’ll have to register first.
looks like i’ll be limited to the availability of vanilla reloads which are in short supply at the 8 or so CVS locations I frequent. Only 2 carry them and they are often out of stock.
@Amit – which banks did you try and what region?
Western PA / Ohio: FNB & PNC
also – it didn’t seem like it was the bank’s call. teller swiped as expected, the receipt was printed from the device and it came up “declined”
I went to FIVE banks today in DC and each ran the unregistered MVD and each came back declined. I have $499.50 on the card and asked for $499 at the banks. Are we sure the fee is only $.50?
@ Amit – agreed that is the key element for sure….
@77w – Thanks, sounds like your activity was more spaced out than mine (10 months verses just a few in my case). Unfortunately, like FM says, no way to know what level of activity is “safe”, and no idea how my account was originally flagged (maybe a fraud alert?) as Chase would never release that info, but once it was reviewed, it was clear they didn’t like the activity….
@have you ever… When you say your OD purchases were 50-75% of total by volume does that mean dollar amount or number of transactions?
@Dan – I meant by total dollar amount of spend, sorry for any confusion…
I should have read more carefully before commenting. The temp MyVanilla card was registered before I got my cash advance.
WORST ADVICE EVER……….I am certain Gary has a financial interest tied to Vanilla………..only way to promote this worthless card……….
@RJ Brown I have no financial interest in Vanilla. It’s just a technique for earning lots of miles.
Thanks for the advice, always good to have another trick for minimum spends.
Tried two different banks (not just branches) and NO go. They both got error messages regarding authorization. NW Ohio
Since I’m not able to cash advance unregistered MVDs or find vanilla reloads, i was wondering if there are any other cards at CVS that are cash advanceable? Anyone try the amex prepaid or green dot cards that are abundant at CVS?
I found something. I have loaded $500 into MVD in CVS. Not registered. First try cash advanced 499.50. no go. Second try, 499, no go. Thrid try 498.5, no go. Last try, 200, it went through! Does that means there is certain limit on MVD temp card that you can cash advance?
Perhaps to piggyback Robert, my last failed attempt was at $300. Did not try any lower.
Robert, was there a 50 cent charge for the $200?
Data point.
CVS has stopped allowing me to purchase Vanilla Reload cards using my Hilton Honors Surpass AMEX; I can use any other credit card, but anytime I attempt to pay with my HH AMEX, there is a message – something like “another form of payment required”.
I called AMEX today, and everything on their end is fine. So, I’ll have to take CVS to task tomorrow.
Anyone else had an issue with hitting a limit/threshold at CVS using a specific credit card?
Should have added to post #90 – until I was “cut off”, I had made 8 x $1,007.90 (2 Vanilla Reloads at $500 a piece + fees) between 12/18 & 1/2.
Tomorrow I will try my wife’s HH Surpass AMEX (her card is linked to my account), see what happens, and report back.
@Simon – The “Another form of payment required” message at CVS indicates that the card was declined. As far as I know, the ability to use credit cards for VRs at CVS is alive and well.
@Jason – the card was not decline my AMEX; they had no record of the attempted transactions when I called them.
“not declined by AMEX” I meant to type…
What are the RISKS in doing this?
The way I see it…
(A) The credit card companies profit tremendously because you are spending a ridiculous amount on your cards. They will definitely be on alert for fraud and will occasionally decline purchases, but this is a minor headache at worst.
(B) The merchant stops carrying the cards. That means end of the game for sure, but its not a “loss” scenario
(C) Getting cash advances becomes difficult. This is definitely the worst case because then you are stuck with useless illiquid MyVanilla Debit Cards, but all it really means is that you have to pay a slight premium to liquidate your funds
So…. unless I’m mistaken, as long as you can afford the loss of liquidity and time commitment, theres no reason not to do this
@Have you ever…
Although I’m sure there are many factors that go into Chase’s determination of when to investigate an Ink holder’s spending, I’m pretty confident that one factor is sheer $$$. That is, I’m guessing that someone who is only moving a small amount of $ thru Inks @ OD > VRs is much less likely to get scrutinized compared to someone who is moving massive $ through the same channel, even if their % spent is similar.
To make your story more useful, can you give us a ballpark on how much $$ you moved thru Inks @ OD? Without knowing something about the scale, your story is interesting but not very useful to most of us.
Thanks for sharing.
I too would like to know. Thank you!
I just called a ton of walgreens, walmarts, and 7-eleven’s in my area (97214, Portland) and IF they still have VRs, they only accept cash…some debit. One Walgreens rep. said that Walgreens was recalling VR’s this month to comply with new banking regulations.
@Sashe, partially correct, but wrt A you are definitely incorrect for cards that have high category bonuses, such as 5x on the Ink cards at office supply stores. Chase is taking a huge loss on the 5x category as they do not get more than 2% back in interchange fees from large, national bigbox retailers and usually only get 1.7%-1.9% in interchange fees from merchants like Staples, etc., so they are losing out on $XXX and $XXXX size transactions. Just read the last few dozen pages (starting in 1/12 or 2/12) of this FW thread where hundreds of users were shut down after large dollar amounts of purchases on aarp CC’s which paid 5% on any purchases with no limit for 6 months:
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1072125
@Tranx @Dizzle – Agreed. FWIW, I put a little under $40k in OD spend on my Ink card before it was shutdown along with my 4 personal CC’s at the same time. I completely agree that anyone just purchasing $XXX or some other low amount per month at OD/OM/Staples is highly unlikely to be shutdown, especially if that is not the only spend on the account….
@Dangus00 – Why would you call WG inquiring about forms of payment accepted? This is like calling an airline wrt a mistake fare IMHO, horrible idea. The only way you’re going to find out if a particular store allows CC purchases is by testing it yourself in person as it will be different at most stores and there is no rhyme or reason to which locations will allow it, and just because someone on the phone says it isn’t allowed either, doesn’t mean that it might not actually work at the store either…