In laying out what happened on the United Express flight headed from Chicago to Louisville last night, I’ve largely felt that United was doing its best under a set of bad circumstances.
- They had to get 4 crew members to Louisville to operate a flight the next day.
- They offered voluntary denied boarding compensation up to $800, a hotel night, and re-accommodation the next day.
- When there weren’t takers at that price, they asked 4 passengers to get off the plane.
Passengers who are involuntarily denied boarding are generally entitled to cash compensation, in this case 4 times the cost of their ticket up to $1350.
United CEO Oscar Munoz in Chicago
It’s an unfortunate circumstance, but if they didn’t want to fly the next day an Uber should have been about $300 (and a four and a half hour drive).
We don’t know exactly what transpired from the time the customer was asked and refused to leave. Three officers were called, and ultimately dragged the man on the ground off the aircraft and bloodied him in the process.
Without access to video and audio of what happened leading up to this, I cannot say for sure, although my hunch is that the officers could have managed the situation less confrontationally so that it didn’t come to this. In assessing blame between United, the officers, and the passenger my guess is that United is the least to blame here.
United CEO Oscar Munoz Cutting the Ribbon on the Airline’s First New Boeing 777-300ER
But once the incident did occur, the airline’s response has been asinine.
Here’s their statement attributed to United’s CEO Oscar Munoz apologizing that customers had to be re-accommodated — as opposed to being shocked, angry, or disappointed that a customer was dragged off and bloodied.
United flight 3411.
That’s the exact wrong way to go with this. When a crisis event happens, don’t run from it run towards it so critics have nowhere to go.
Munoz shouldn’t say the customer was inconvenienced, he should say it was a terrible, horrible experience. He shouldn’t say it’s upsetting, he’s angry and he’s going to get to the bottom of it. Be active. Show actual concern, don’t be mealy mouthed.
Gary, you are spot on! Don’t you love these companies that are effectively their own worst enemy!
This is what happens when the lawyers and “public relations specialists” think they run the company.
I totally agree with you Gary. It was United’s fault. They overbooked passengers. How hard is it to count the number of seats and the number of boarding passes that had been scanned? They did not handle this situation in a civilized way.
United is the least to blame?!?!? Ughhh… how about if they stopped their practice of overbooking this wouldn’t have happened OR really the United gate agents are to blame because if this was oversold, the pax shouldn’t have been allowed to even board the plane to begin with thus avoiding the whole situation to begin with. Stop making excuses for United Gary… if it only cost a $300 Uber ride, then why couldn’t the crew take that Uber instead of the customer?
British Airways has Cruz.
United have Munoz.
Cast from the same mound and neither fit to enhance or improve the brand they head.
Aviation Darwinism at its best from them both this week.
@Gary seriously, United isn’t to blame here? I fault the airline 100% for boarding a full plane and then having to remove people. All they had to do was not allow some passengers to board – it’s called denied BOARDING for a reason, not “call the po-lice to beat you off the plane.”
And as others have pointed out, there ARE occupations where getting back to work is actually really important – I am United wishes they’d have offered a few hundred more bucks to get people moving before they got this wonderful free PR. Or send those 4 crew members via Uber if it’s so easy.
Put another way, it is very telling that the passenger got BACK on the plane. That is before the Internet erupted – obviously they knew they screwed something up pretty badly, and tried to unwind it.
Just so.
“The secret of success is sincerity. Once you can fake that, you’ve got it made.”
Yes, Oscar, we saw how you “reaccomodated the passenger.” Since the fish stinks from it’s head, such cluelessness reveals where this kind of behavior towards customers comes from. And yes as a forty year customer who was devalued by Mileage Minus (75%) I’m gloating to see you and your airline devalued to dirt by a billion dollar PR hit. Maybe you can start by telling your staff that the next one who tells a Customer “Not one more word or I’m having you removed” will be removed? Your authoritarian junta is over.
@jfhscott What happens when the lawyers and PR people run the company? The United response is idiotic, it looks like what happens when you just react WITHOUT working with your legal and PR teams.
Re: an Uber being $300 — I imagine it would be very difficult to find a driver willing to make the trip.
United is really redefining what re-accommodated means.
Soon you’ll hear their passengers saying “Please, please don’t re-accommodate me.”
My guess is UA doesn’t want to come out bashing Chicago cops for doing what they were asked to do by UA. Without knowing all the facts it’s hard for even UA to comment. This probably wan’t the best, but he had to say something and I believe Oscar will do the right thing.
Gary, I love your blog but not holding UA accountable is unreasonable. I need to review your posts but I think two facts are material to the analysis.
1. UA didn’t go above 800 dollars. Why? They might have gotten a volunteer by going hire.
2. The reason for the “overbooking” is because UA wanted to load the plane with 4 of their own personnel. If you are going to do that you probably should (1) not drag people off the plane; (2) avoid inconveniencing revs; (3) pay the inconvenienced pax more than $800 bucks if there are no takers.
So what led up to needing those seats? What sort of situation results in an entire crew needing to get to the out-station, while the aircraft is already there?
If a gate agent tries to stop me from boarding, am I allowed to punch him/her in the face? Is that a viable option?
@Bill in hindsight United should have done things differently. Absolutely.
At the time, knowing what they knew at each stage —
* They needed to get 4 crew to Louisville to operate a flight, so there were 4 fewer seats for passengers
* They needed volunteers, offered up to $800 plus a hotel room and travel the next day
* That didn’t work. Maybe they should have gone higher, they also needed to get the flight out, they don’t want a crew to go illegal, the crew being flown to Louisville have to meet government-mandated minimum rest.
* United Express gate agents don’t have AUTHORITY to implement a new bidding procedure.
* And it was not at all foreseeable things would end this way.
They involuntarily denied boarding to 4 passengers. The first 2 got off without incident. The doctor refused to go. When a passenger refuses to follow crew orders, they call the police.
And between the doctor and the police the situation escalated. United wasn’t involved, nor could they have foreseen how things would transpire.
@David actually United appointed its lawyer to run customer service!
UA’s problem — and that of other airlines — is that they’re very rule-oriented in their operations. All airlines are, as it’s the only way to run a safe and efficient operation. They followed their rules: no one is claiming they didn’t. If you get a guy who won’t get off a plane — even though the rules say he should — you call the police. The police then handle the matter as they see fit (and, of course, police are going to MAKE you get off if you don’t listen to them).
The problem is that in this age of social media, following the rules probably isn’t good enough. People will side with the rulebreakers when they’re seen being dragged off the plane — especially when the rules don’t seem terribly fair.
It seems like UA needs new rules. And, I suspect, they and the other airlines will implement them in response to the negative press this incident is getting.
“No passenger should have to shed a drop of blood to fly the friendly skies with United.” All he had to say
They didnt offer 800 USD. they offer 800 United funny money. Delta offers 1300 amex gift cards.
I stop taking vouches once UA had gone revenue based since I dont care about EQM and wont earn RDM anymore
@Unacceptable love your fake email address, ‘suckmyballs’ really? And you’re criticizing ME? 😉
United didn’t have the option to put crew in a 4.5 hour Uber, they’re governed by union contracts.
And blaming overbooking doesn’t make sense in this case since the issue wasn’t more seats sold than seats on the plane.
@Jason
I live in a Chicago burb. Retired. I am not an Uber driver, but if someone called me at midnight and offered me $300 to drive some people ORD-SDF and back alone, I’d be there in a shot.
There must be 100000 people in Chicago like me.
United is the MOST to blame as they created the situation! Once they realized that they needed to get four passengers OFF the plane they should have done EVERYTHING in their power to get volunteers and $800 plus hotel is NOT even close…if they had gone up to $1500 CASH and *still* had no takers I would be a little more sympathetic to United’s dilemma. But even then they should have offered to either make arrangements with another airline OR an Uber/Limo/Taxi for that night.
The solution isn’t to call in the police! In terms of the cost in PR and damage to their reputation $1500 or more in cash per person to get volunteers would have been a far cheaper resolution.
**Until we hold airlines accountable for their misdeeds/mismanagement they will NEVER change**
The passenger did nothing wrong. Passenger bought ticket with money, got boarding pass, was scanned at gate and boarded flight like everyone else. Passenger did nothing wrong.
There was no denied boarding.
There was no involuntary denied boarding.
Period.
Passenger did nothing wrong. We are not talking about what happened later.
@Carlos the passenger refused crewmember instructions, it may not be ‘fair’ but is legally wrong
United should consider a silent auction for volunteers. Let passengers submit their asking price to the gate agent and, in this case, the lowest four offers would get bumped. It’s a perfectly fair, civil and efficient way to make everybody happy.
Until then, let this be another example of why solving scarcity with government coercion doesn’t work.
Sincere question for Gary — are you now or have you ever been compensated by United Airlines? Directly or indirectly? I ask because I’m quite taken aback by your ability to hold them completely unaccountable for what to me seems to be a clear failure on multiple levels.
Also, at what point exactly did your blog start attracting the zealot racists that are more typical of the Brietbart readership? Odd that your other posts seem to have some pretty bigoted comments that you seem to steer clear of. In short, WTF man.
This is SO SHAMEFUL. Munoz is NOT qualified to run a milk truck certainly not an airline. If Munoz had to be somewhere bet he would say it’s important. Traveling on an airline is important to all passengers mr Munoz. If the airlines have another financial meltdown, I would prefer that you and United go first. This horribly shameful. Poof with you.
Look, I get it. The public hates the airlines. They nickle and dime passengers on everything, charge cancellation fees and penalties, and often deliver a miserable flying experience. So when a story like this pops up everyone piles on as payback. But really now, who in this day and age does NOT know that airlines overbook, that passengers get bumped all the time, and that refusing to obey crew orders can get you kicked off an aircraft?
Maybe he doesn’t care, hence the response. He probably became desensitized to things such as passengers being denied boarding, and maybe in his mind not following crew instructions. But there has to be some blame to the man that was dragged out as well. Even if he is a doctor and had to see patients the next day, he was reaccomodated on the 3pm flight, he would have still been able to make all his appointments the next day.
@Gary And what authority did the gate agent or any crew member have to remove the passenger?You cannot use the argument of “denied boarding” since the passenger already boarded the flight. The passenger was not a threat to anyone so the crew would not have a reason to remove him.
And once the passenger was on the plane and given boarding, the gate agent has no authority to remove him.
Ironic that your “United was doing the best under a set of bad circumstances” is worse than Munoz communication. Nobody involved did their best here. And they are all continuing to fumble the ball.
United is 100% at fault for not offering cash, and more than $800.
They should have offered $1350 cash. Maybe it’s corporate who says $800 is max under all circumstances but it’s still United at fault.
As others said, company scrip isn’t as attractive as cash.
It’s astounding that UA couldn’t figure out they needed four more seats for the extra crew headed to Louisville until after everyone was boarded. That’s idiotic. Second, you keep offering more compensation until someone volunteers. Worst case scenario, they offer a few people so much compensation that the flight operates for zero profit. Even then, the crew gets to the other flight, and the flight gets the remaining passengers there on time. Their idiotic approach led to a passenger being bloodied, it being plastered all over the internet, and now a very good chance of them losing out on who knows, 10x, 100x, maybe 1000x the amount they would have paid out in lost business. It amazes me how stupid business people can be sometimes. The CEO of a Fortune 500 company should be doing anything he can to make it right, not walking a tightrope.
@Gary – I follow some of your logic, but how do you NOT put some blame on United and their overbooking tactics for causing this mess? Sure, you say this wasn’t about “more seats sold than on the plane”….but it was – if there wasn’t 4 United personnel that suddenly needed to board the plane, there would have been plenty of seats for the customers, right? The fact you are spouting the technicals of what defines “overbooking” is beyond me – and makes me question your objectives here and perhaps loyalties?
And sure, United didn’t know what was going to happen – they followed their rules (their own rules?) and sure – the police or law enforcement were responsible for the handling of said passenger.
But hell – United could have done a lot more to remedy this situation, but didn’t because they value $$$ over customers. Couple options come to mind:
1. How about not overbooking the flight to begin with? Oh but wait, that’s how United makes sure it’s planes are all full and maximizes utility and $$$. So no, that’s not an option.
2. Keep overbooking but provide enough incentive for people to give up their seats. Where does this “max” $1350 rule come from? I bet this is a United limit/max? If so, that’s their problem – the laws of supply and demand are different for every situation and every time/day/flight – United of ALL people should know that. Why do you think booking a last second flight with them is so expensive? So they offered $800 and no one took it – well that tells you that is not the market price. Their rules should be flexible – just like their fares are flexible depending on the route, day, time of departure, etc. That’s like us limiting United to a max price for a ticket – do you think they’d be cool with that? So, continuing on – why didn’t United keep upping the ante? $1200. $1350. Hell, first class ticket to anywhere in the world. I guarantee you 4 people would of jumped at that chance. So why didn’t United do any of this? Because again, they only care about $$$.
3. Ok, so in the imaginary scenario where everyone HAS to get from Chicago to Louisville – even turning down first class tickets worth $6000. Well, United screwed up with the overbooking (point 1), and tried compensating people for giving up their tickets (point 2) – so assuming they respect and value each customer – the only alternative for them is to PAY for THEIR OWN mistake. Get another plane there for their four people. Or, *gasp* put them on another airline/flight. Hire a private jet or helicopter. All of these things are within United’s control. Why wouldn’t they do it? Because AGAIN – they care about $$$ over customers.
Stop trying to shift the onus away from United. Make no mistake – Munoz will get fired over this.
@UnitedStooge – for avoidance of doubt I have never received compensation from United except as an inconvenienced passenger e.g. when they lost my luggage
@Gary, you are just getting abused on here from people who are misreading you (either accidentally or purposefully). How do you put up with this? If it were my blog I’d delete them all but you obviously have much thicker skin than me.
I completely agree with you that al three parties are to blame. If united had offered more money they probably would have gotten volunteers. If the man hadn’t disobeyed they wouldn’t have called the police. And obviously the police didn’t need to injure the man. Sad situation all around and hopefully they can all learn from it. The united response to this is about 10x worse than their initial problem.
@Mwwalk – I assume the misreading is accidental, not everyone can think clearly about an incident that justifiably triggers an emotional response. I get that.
Gary you keep saying that the passenger did not follow crew instructions as if that is a crime in itself. Passenger does not have to follow illegal instructions. What if a Crewmember asks a passenger do a striptease for me does the passenger have to do that or be roughed up by cops?
Involuntary Denied Boarding rules apply before boarding. After United allowed the passenger to board they have no legal right to ask him to deboard.
If you think otherwise please find and quote any regulation which allows airlines to disembark a passenger for commercial reasons (not safety reasons)
Smart doctor knew that United vouchers are a pain to use before they expire, I don’t blame him for not wanting to mess with them. He makes $800 before lunch.
Delta is hitting $1000 in real USD gift cards all the time on my oversold flights during the reverse auction at the gate, surprise surprise they always get the needed volunteers and we can board early. Mentally $1000 is the hurdle for people knowing they’ll be in a dirty airport motel that night and miss a day of work/vacation.
Buh Bye United…even AA is better than you now.
Gary, I made similar comments to another of your posts in regards to this incident but I wanted to reiterate a few points about United. I believe you are correct in stating this is a much bigger story than people and United realize and that it will get much bigger and worse for United. But as for United being the “least” to blame, my experience has been that United is a particularly tone-deaf company that tends to treat its customers with a particular intense disregard and carelessness that borders on the sadistic. So the fact that United is in the middle of this “sh#*-storm” probably bothers fewer people than would otherwise and they kinda deserve all that they get. United “drove the bus” in regards to this incident and they could have controlled almost every aspect of what transpired. You lose control when you bring in the “authorities” but United should have known that anything could have happened after they “called the cops” and that “anything” will reflect badly on United. So I’m not going to let United “off the hook” just because a few “rogue” cops went “rogue.” “Going rogue” seems to be what cops do a lot these days and United should have resolved this incident before they had to “call the cops.”
@Andrew —> The flight was NOT overbooked! It was full. And through whatever “glitch” in the system, “all of a sudden” there were four UA employees who need to get from Chicago to Louisville in order to work a flight departing the next day. And so, UA decided four paying passengers had to go . . . or rather, not go as the case may be.
@Gary, and THIS is where you are wrong re: United’s blame. I have no idea as to the “hows and whys,” but somewhere, someone at UA should have known — probably *did* know — that these four people needed to be in Louisville. And so, the voluntary/involuntary bumping should have taken place PRIOR TO BOARDING THE AIRCRAFT. What did UA do with their checked bags? Unload them all and search for the one (or two or three or four) belonging to the person(s) being bumped?
You are, Gary, 100% correct that the United Pilot in Command has the authority to order people off “his” (or her) plane, and that passengers must comply with the pilot’s orders. HOWEVER, I am not aware that the pilot was the one who said (e.g.) “People in Seats 5E&F, 9A and 12C — off my aircraft NOW!” It was the Gate staff. They were the ones who apparently called the police. You may think I’m splitting hairs here, and you might be right, but the bottom line is that UA mishandled the situation from the get-go; excessive force by law enforcement certainly didn’t help. Neither did the statements from UA last night, nor Oscar Muñoz’s idiotic one today. Talk about throwing Jet Fuel on the fire . . .
If I were the CEO’s of AA and DL, I’d be thanking the aviation deities that it wasn’t my airline! And if I were the Chief Revenue Officers of AA and DL, I’d be looking to add capacity at O’Hare . . .
Gary,
I think in the end, UA will lose more money than it would have cost to charter a private jet for those 4 crew. Poor logistical planning and union contracts are insufficient reasons to let a situation rise to this level. No excuses justify what happened here.
I disagree with you that UA is the ‘least’ to blame here. As others have said, they are in the position to create the best possible flying experience for their customers, both on the ground and in the air, and in the process earn the customer’s loyalty and future business. Building future revenue. Epic fail, and there isn’t an argument against that. Please do not throw out Contract of Carriage laws, because those are designed to protect the carrier when they have this type of unprofessional and unethical behavior in the treatment of paying customers.
All of that comes later. In the beginning, UA has a choice to develop a way for crews to get where they need to go. The first time airlines thought it was ok to IDB paying passengers in favor of relocating crews, they failed. They = all airlines. This situation is like saying your employer today has the police physically arrest one of your customers that was walking in the door to do business, because you were late or had to get to work on time because the back door was locked? Preposterous, even in the ‘least’…
Let’s wake up the sleeping elephant in the room. Could the fact that he was Asian in the new America have played a part?
United net income 2016 $ 3 Billion dollars
Munoz salary/comp $ 7 million
Chicago style beat down of physician over $800 ??
How can you allow United to skate on this one?
Shame on you
I asked this of Lucky and got no response hopefully someone here will. There are LOTS of unanswered questions, when did United (republic) realize they needed to get the crew to Louisville? Was the crew at the gate waiting to board, or did the crew show up AFTER boarding had finished and that is when gate agents found out they needed 4 seats? I feel it was the later and is so, then the airline has NO right to kick anyone off the flight, UA just needed to use the corporate jet to get the crew where it needed to be. I wish we will hear the final outcome of what will happen, but I’m sure the settlement to the Dr. will prevent him speaking…
When I google ‘oscar munoz images’ two come up that are pretty funny;
One is a quote by him from BUSINESS INSIDER where he’s quoted as saying;
“We, as an industry, have made flying difficult” (understatement of the year award?)
The other is an image of him with words written behind him reading –
‘READY TO SOAR?’
I think it should read –
‘READY TO BE SORE?’
Just a question. Does anyone know if it was $800 cash or $800 in a “credit”. From those who have taken compensation, it seemed that finding a ticket they could use the voucher on was as difficult as finding a saver domestic ticket.
I had a friend with an expiring voucher show up at the airport on a Friday with a packed bag. He said, fly me somewhere today with this credit and home on Sunday. I don’t care where. They couldn’t find one place where he could go.
I think the PR problem for United here is that most casual members of the public have no idea that they can be booted from a flight so that United can move its own employees around. I just don’t know how United spins that part. It would be one thing if this were weather related, an equipment problem, weight distribution or overbooking. But it wasn’t. This was one of the big four domestic airlines, which has a fleet of over 700 aircraft, in its hub in Chicago forcing confirmed and ticketed passengers off the flight so that it could fix its own scheduling issues. to a city relatively closeby.
It’s one thing to talk about how this is industry practice, or that this is the way it is, and that following crewmember instructions is required. But they’ll never win a PR war here. They can’t. Because this is going to come as a surprise to many people. An elderly man ends up bloody, and the event that precipitated it is United doing something that most people who shell out good money for tickets have no idea that airline can do in the first place. Not good. Their response so far has been pretty tone deaf.
If getting to Kentucky on an Uber was a reasonable course of action, it should’ve been reasonable for the four United crew as well, not just the ACTUALLY PAYING CUSTOMER. And if United needs volunteers, it should get actual volunteers by raising its offer until people come forward instead of calling people volunteers whose faces they deign necessary to re-accommodate into armwrests. As asinine as United’s response to this has been, the defense of United’s actions here is still more asinine.
Few people are aware that airlines have the power to desert you at will. If that’s the policy United wants to affect than they should make that clear in the booking process by allowing people to insure themselves against those outcomes- a different class of fares for people that are willing to take the risk of being forced to take a buyout come what may. United isn’t willing to because it wants to hide those costs from the consumer, because only a few will have their faces smashed into an armwrest, so most won’t know that’s the risk they’re taking by flying the airline. How you could defend such blatant deception is beyond me.