The Department of Transportation has made its determination about the five new “beyond perimeter” routes that would be permitted to operated at Washington’s National airport. These are flights provided for in the FAA Reauthorization Act which are farther the airport’s current cap for most flights of 1,250 miles. The decision was made months after the agency was statutorily required to announce it.
Here are the (5) awards that they propose in their tentative order:
- American Airlines: San Antonio
- Alaska Airlines: San Diego
- Southwest Airlines: Las Vegas (adds to existing American Airlines service)
- Delta Air Lines: Seattle (adds to existing Alaska service)
- United Airlines: San Francisco (adds to existing United and Alaska service)
That means nothing for JetBlue (a second San Juan flight), Frontier (San Juan), and Spirit (San Jose). This is pretty much what I’ve expected, though Spirit’s San Jose, California proposal is far stronger than United’s San Francisco.
How The Decision Was Made
Congress gamed this by stating that four of the new routes had to go to the largest airlines already serving the airport (non-limited incumbents) and one to an existing airline at the airport that was smaller (limited incumbent). New entrants to the market were legally barred from one of the slot pairs.
In case there was any doubt what was intended, Senator Maria Cantwell – who chairs the committee that wrote the law – sent a letter to Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg making clear that American, Alaska, Southwest and Delta should get these slots. The fix was in.
The whole issue really hinged on who would get awarded the fifth flight, and that depended on which airlines qualified as a limited incumbent. It turns out the rules on this are complex. I think DOT is misreading them. The excluded airlines, for their own reasons, think so too. And a dispute seems likely to follow.
The rest of the arguments over whose proposal is best is almost entirely moot. The only dimension where that wasn’t the case is JetBlue’s suggestion of a second San Juan flight where they’re the only carrier in that market to begin with. That was always going to be a non-starter.
The rest of the wrangling and sniping between airlines over whether United’s proposed times for San Francisco were permitted, and whether American had too many slots, where all only meaningful if DOT considered Alaska Airlines to be a non-limited incumbent and therefore they had to compete with San Diego for their proposals.
Did DOT Get The Legal Analysis Right?
The Department of Transportation uses something of a tortured reading of the FAA Reauthorization statute and related regulations to decide which airlines are eligible as a ‘limited incumbent’ carrier for the one slot pair set aside for that designation.
- They say the carrier has to be an incumbent at the airport, and incumbent isn’t defined and so their approach is to use the clear meaning of the language.
- And separately that the carrier has to be a limited incumbent, which is defined.
Therefore, they say, they can exclude airlines that weren’t flying from the airport when the law was enacted – meaning Spirit Airlines – even though Spirit qualifies as a limited incumbent.
Frontier flies from the airport today and doesn’t fly so much that they’re ineligible, but all of their slots are exemption slots. They do not have a single regular slot, which under the rules makes them a new entrant to the airport. The regulatory definitions here are tortured, but DOT seems correct here, and Frontier is ineligible (since no slots are set aside for new entrants).
Of course, Frontier pitching an additional San Juan flight for the airport wasn’t ever super compelling. It was really just a proposal that made sense if all other potential winners of the limited incumbent slot were disqualified (Spirit, Alaska).
While I think they’re wrong on their interpretation of Spirit’s ineligibility, they’re especially far afield in their discussion of why Alaska Airlines is eligible.
- Their status as a limited incumbent is supposed to be judged in total with their codeshare partners. They codeshare with American Airlines at the airport. That should be the end of the discussion. Combined, they are the largest at the airport and not a limited-incumbent.
[A]n air carrier that operates under the same designator code, or has or enters into a code-share agreement, with any other air carrier shall not qualify for a new slot or slot exemption as a new entrant or limited incumbent air carrier at an airport if the total number of slots and slot exemptions held by the two carriers at the airport exceed 20 slots and slot exemptions.
- DOT acknowledges this but says that since American and Alaska can’t codeshare on Alaska’s flights out of National airport based on a legal agreement, giving them another exemption slot won’t add to their American Airlines codeshare.
- Alaska does put their code on more than 50 American Airlines flights from the airport, so I’m not sure how DOT can conclude that “Alaska does not receive any meaningful access to the DCA market via its relationship with American” nor is it obvious that this should matter – the clear meaning of the language, which DOT elevates earlier in its discussion, clearly says Alaska is ineligible.
None of this should even matter to whether or not Alaska gets awarded its preferred route to San Diego – it is likely compelling enough to win one of the four non-limited incumbent slot pairs. It would simply bump out United’s award of another San Francisco trip (and make room, potentially, for Spirit to San Jose), which was the weakest proposal since there are already two flights and two carriers serving that market.
However awarding the limited-incumbent slots to Alaska, and ruling Spirit ineligible, should generate appeals and litigation.
Delta should be flying a plane with Delta One between DCA and SEA.
@ Gary — Hopefully Senator Allred will end the DCA-SAT route.
the bottom line is that AA and AS both are getting competition on routes where they currently operate monopoly nonstops while both are also getting newer monopoly routes although in smaller markets.
As for the language of who is eligible or not, the ship has sailed and the awards are highly unlikely to change. But the real issue is that the alternate bidders that weren’t awarded face significant strategic and financial challenges right now so the DOT took a fairly low-risk approach to making sure they don’t have to revisit the topic anytime soon.
And DL not only won with a 3rd outside perimeter destination from DCA but also in adding 5 more new flights from DCA to the west coast which UA fought against because it weakens their IAD hub, even if one of those flights will be on UA.
While UA seems to accept that it is in a no-growth situation at EWR, IAD is its best hope for moving connecting traffic out of EWR; AA is trying once again to make its CLT and PHL hubs work better together while DL is using its lineup of ATL, JFK and BOS to be the largest east coast transatlantic carrier. These 5 routes do matter in the scope of how the big 3 are positioned on the east coast. and they also matter to AS which has a niche but strong position at DCA – far better than they have in any other east coast city – thanks to legislative influence – and also ensures that B6 will continue to slip relative to its competitors.
FNT,
AA, DL and UA all have narrowbody domestic aircraft in their fleet now with some sort of lie flat business class cabin
Yet, so far as I know, DL is the one of the 3 that uses an aircraft with a lie flat cabin on its DCA-LAX flight with one of their 757s.
The 757 is the ideal plane to do a coast to coast route year round out of DCA (or LGA if it was permitted) regardless of weather and still offer a lie flat product. and yet the DL lie flat 757s will be reconfigured to standard domestic use when their A321 transcon NEOs enter service. Clearly DL would have an advantage compared to AS if they used a lie-flat aircraft to SEA; DOT data shows DL gets a revenue premium out of DCA to LAX but the 757 can carry about 20 more total passengers w/ business class (but no premium select) than the A321NEO which will have PS.
@ Timmy — Regardless of whatever you are attenpting to say, flying United will continue to be a superior experience versus Delta.
“the bottom line is that AA and AS both are getting competition on routes where they currently operate monopoly nonstops while both are also getting newer monopoly routes although in smaller markets.”
LMAO. Both AA/AS clean DL’s clock on any outside perimeter route from DCA besides SLC. Of course you would mention “smaller markets” as a negative. Somehow, your delusional mind will justify DL’s 3 flights (LAX/SLC/SEA) running over AA’s 7 flights (LAX/PHX/LAS/SAT) & AS’s 6 flights (SEA/PDX/SFO/LAX/SAN).
The Alaska question is answered by the committee being chaired by Maria Cantwell, a senator from Washington state, where Alaska Airlines calls home.
roberto,
you confuse volume with quality as measured by actual fare data – which is available.
we knew going into this perimeter exemption process that AA and AS had more perimeter exemptions than DL or UA but the actual fare data shows that DL gets more revenue per seat than AA or AS – and the 3 all do compete in the DCA-LAX market.
and Gene,
UA doesn’t fly DCA-LAX but chose to get a leg up over AS to SFO which makes more sense than trying to become the 4th wheel in a market where 3 other carriers are already established.
And DL will most certainly pull some decent revenue onto its new SEA flight; AS tried to deny how much of a revenue premium that it actually gets but DL has access to all of the local DCA and connecting revenue that AS and AA can carry via DCA. DL has LESS need to carry connections via DCA which is exactly what AS needs to do to maximize revenue because, without a joint venture which AA and AS DON’T have, AA and AS each want to carry the maximum amount of revenue on their own metal before turning the passenger over to each other. Given that AS doesn’t fly to SEA, DCA is the most geographically suited AA hub that AS serves at which AA can “complete” an itinerary to the SE US.
and, gene, we know full well that when you don’t like the actual facts that exist, you just argue against them.
Delta handedly outperforms Alaska in average fare to the eastern US.
It is sometimes necessary for government to pick winners and losers. This is often best done in a competitive and transparent bidding process, and not by politicians rewarding their home states.
Set up guidelines, take bids, and use the proceeds to meet needs in the air travel system.
@ Timmy — No one here but you cares about revenue and profits. This is a blog about the consumer. Find a different blog where people might be iterested in what you have to say.
Gene.
YOU don’t care about revenue and profits because you think everyone in the world including airlines exist for your pleasure.
there were multiple factually incorrect statements made in the comments.
You and others either are simply trolls or are ignorant – and a response is appropriate.
LOL. Surprise surprise.. Timmy Dunny at it yet again cooking stories in an attempt to distract attention from DL’s paltry presence at DCA. As if the revenue from that one flight shifts the table in any manner. So much nonsense.
1. “the bottom line is that AA and AS both are getting competition on routes where they currently operate monopoly nonstops while both are also getting newer monopoly routes although in smaller markets.”
no. Sat is a larger population and economy vs LAS. Vegas has a larger airport and leisure demand, do doubt, but it’s not as though AA is fighting for cheap gambling fares vs Wn or Spirit.
SEA is a larger economy than SAN and a larger population but I doubt anyone at Alaska is crying about getting the only nonstop on SAN-DCA or that Delta got Sea-DCA when Delta struggles domestically at SEA and Alaska is twice the size of Delta there.
2. “while DL is using its lineup of ATL, JFK and BOS to be the largest east coast transatlantic carrier.”
On a topic about DCA, a domestic airport, leave it to Tim to find some abstract and random “Delta is winning” completely out of the blue.
3. “DOT data shows DL gets a revenue premium out of DCA to LAX but the 757 can carry about 20 more total passengers w/ business class (but no premium select) than the A321NEO which will have PS.”
Delta flies the 168 seat 752 on DCA-LAX vs AA with a 196 seat NEO. The Delta 752 should be carrying almost 200 passengers but Delta is making a play on a less dense aircraft and, of course, it would have higher RASM; that’s what happens when you fly a 200 seat plane with 168 seats. The denominator is significantly lower than it would be otherwise or vs AA and AS aircraft. But it also has significantly higher CASM given the low density on that plane vs the AA NEO or the AS 737. The total revenue per flight is easily higher on the AA NEO with fuel costs significantly higher on the DL 752 vs the NEO.
AA and AS can fly the route maximizing connections on either end if they think it can get a higher fare, delta can on one end of the route. If AA wanted to fly a less dense A321T on DCA-LAX because they thought it would maximize total revenue, it would easily flow into the network out of LAX but there’s a reason they don’t. AA has connection opportunities to maximize revenue on O&D or connections on both ends. Delta just doesn’t. Your attempts to once again misuse data are just getting lame lately.
4. “Given that AS doesn’t fly to SEA”
Yes, “Tim”. Alaska does fly to Seattle 😉 This is why you shouldn’t drink and post. But even the strange CLT point you’re trying to make is just so strange and ignorant. The fact that Alaska COULD connect passengers over DCA doesn’t mean that they do or have to. If they can maximize revenue off O&D, they will. If Alaska can make more money off a DCA connection, they have that opportunity. Calling it some kind of “Delta advantage” that delta can’t connect over DCA is just ignorant. And you’re also ignoring that Alaska’s true advantage is having twice the connections on the SEA end vs Delta on the DCA-SEA route with the ability to maximize revenue on their own metal from the SEA end, not the DCA end. DCA connections for AS are just incremental revenue opportunities, if wanted.
However, to your strange point about “Alaska metal not flying to CLT so they have to connect over DCA to get someone to ORF”, If Alaska wants to connect passengers in the SE or the NE, there’s very very little that Alaska can’t do over a connection with AA in DFW, ORD, or PHL, all Alaska destinations. Care to name some connections out of DCA that can’t be done via DFW, ORD, or PHL? DCA doesn’t serve most of the actual unique CLT destinations like LYH or CHO. And the overlap between DCA and CLT that doesn’t include DFW/ORD/PHL is minuscule if it even exists… Your knowledge is just so low on this topic it’s honestly hard to believe. You know just enough to seem knowledgeable to a passerby, but so little that you sound very ignorant to anyone that knows the industry.
But again. Great new routes to all. These are some cool new DCA routes. There really isn’t a reason to do your normal “Delta wins. everyone else loses” spiel. Just enjoy the allotment and stop trying to spread misinformation
@ Tim — Did you lose your troll mirror? Run down and get a new one at Dollar Tree. They need the revenue.
@Gary: Agree Spirit should have been in the running and technically qualified per the letter of the law. I’ll give you another reason why:
MWAA has still charged rent to Spirit for space at DCA (I think it finally ends this coming FY) per terms of the lease from when they operated to DCA prior to I think it was 2013. Even after Spirit sold its slots to Southwest, still MWAA held Spirit (as it should) to the lease for gate holdroom, office space, and operations/storage space. Southwest obviously needed a gate and related space – Spirit of course offered to sublet with a 15% administrative fee and Southwest agreed… then complained to MWAA who agreed to let Spirit out of whatever space Southwest would sign onto. However, one small like 30 sq ft closet on the lower level of the concourse didn’t get taken and Spirit has still been charged every month for the last decade. Maybe they should contact MWAA for a refund and cite DOT? Haha.
What’s the deal with Reagan? Can somebody give me the ten words or less version because I don’t understand why it’s so particularly sensitive that it requires wrangling at the highest levels of the FAA.
Things I *think* I’m following accurately:
– Noise
-…and that’s about it
max,
yeah, you just want to argue.
You somehow can figure out that I meant CLT even though I wrote SEA because you spend paragraph after paragraph telling us why AS can connect passengers through DFW ORD etc – and miss the point that every airline wants to maximize ITS OWN revenue and without a revenue sharing agreement, which AA and AS do not have, AS needs to carry the passenger the furthest in order to maximize its share of revenue.
Read the DOT arguments… AS specifically argued that DL was overstating the local market revenue that AS gets in order to downplay the need for a competitor – but the DOT awarded a second competitor to the market anyway.
And DL does not need to carry as much revenue beyond SEA because it has multiple other hubs including MSP and SLC as well as the massive ATL hub that serve many of the same O&Ds that AS uses to flow over SEA.
I’m sure you weren’t thinking about AA’s A321T strategy when you dinged DL’s 757 business class strategy but that is the classic example of “you can push RASM so high that costs don’t work any more”
AA, DL and UA all will have premium configured A321NEOs – so let’s see who uses them. DL sees demand in the DCA transcon market that is worth chasing w/ lie flat seats even w/ a less efficient aircraft while AA chases volume. In case you missed it, AA’s strategy is all about volume – and they trail the big 4 in profit margins so I would hardly hold them out as an example.
pro tip 1. Drop the incessant fixation w/ DL’s “in progress” WiFi given that it is indeed far further along providing free high speed global WiFi across its global fleet among the big 4. B6 has been at it longer but has much less impact, DL followed and is at least 2/3 of the way there on a fleet that is approaching 1000 aircraft, AA has no intention so far of going there, and UA has just announced to copy DL’s strategy but is nowhere close to finishing anytime soon -and they aren’t even promising to do so. You are the only one that seems unable to understand or accept and the reality of where WiFi is in the US and global industry or have an incessant need to argue regardless
pro tip 2. Drop the fixation with anybody’s user name and you might find that others do the same. You are the one that has demonstrated hypocrisy in your position on the issue and it gets as far as accusations of being drunk or mental illness.
Debate the issues and accept reality… including that others will sometimes get the last word and sometimes you will.
lol. Thanks for the pro tips. 😉
per tip 1. There’s no fixation on delta’s wifi. Just a simple correction when you’re wrong and you then usually furiously type 15 paragraphs back to me because you know you’re wrong and you try to change the topic or just attack me over and over again personally when you can’t respond with facts. Frankly, you still haven’t even backed up your original claim about Delta wifi being far ahead of other carriers. You then stated Delta has the most planes in the world with high speed satellite internet. I replied with facts from a 10-k and you didn’t even respond because you’re wrong about that too.
Per tip 2. I’m not the one misspelling most words at 1030pm on a Wednesday night after some drinks. But I get it. It’s embarrassing to get called out when you drink too much and posted a rambling incoherent misspelled diatribe about nothing except how angry you are at me for calling you out for lies and hypocrisy. But also noted… you still aren’t disputing that Tim Dunn is not your name. Again. I could care less what your real name is, but learn the meaning of the word hypocrisy. You are the definition of it when you criticize others for using a username when you currently use one and have used various fake usernames for decades and even today whether it’s Tim Dunn or some of the others you use to reply to yourself 😉
Let’s just remind people. You are the one banned from websites under multiple fake usernames. It’s not me.
My god though, “Tim”. There’s a whole other comment section we hijacked on these two topics. You really are this lame to bring it now to DCA nonstops? This might be the height of your usual attempts at misdirection and new topics when you don’t know how to reply to what I write. Now you’re bringing up arguments you’ve already lost from other articles to obfuscate this commentary when you don’t have anything to say?
“Read the DOT arguments… AS specifically argued that DL was overstating the local market revenue that AS gets in order to downplay the need for a competitor – but the DOT awarded a second competitor to the market anyway.”
I really do wonder if you even know how to read sometimes. So? I’m not saying and didn’t say that AS is understating or overstating the local market revenue. I’m simply contesting your simplistic view that somehow AA and AS are losers in this by gaining a competitor and then a smaller market. and btw. I do note how you now don’t even dispute that SAT is a larger economy and population vs LAS. Your silence says everything.
AS easily still has the upperhand over Delta on SEA-DCA though of course you’d expect competition to push AS yields down. I’m simply noting that your simplistic view of winners and losers is just that, simplistic. SAN-DCA is going to print money for AS and SEA-DCA still will too. Alaska has twice the number of connections on the SEA end vs Delta to make money and they also COULD connect someone on the DCA end as well if it would improve their revenue. They have a lot of options, all of which are superior to Delta’s options on this specific route. AS doesn’t need to connect people over DCA. There are plenty of other AA hubs that can do it for them, if needed.
“You somehow can figure out that I meant CLT even though I wrote SEA because you spend paragraph after paragraph telling us why AS can connect passengers through DFW ORD etc – and miss the point that every airline wants to maximize ITS OWN revenue and without a revenue sharing agreement, which AA and AS do not have, AS needs to carry the passenger the furthest in order to maximize its share of revenue.”
So much of your usual ignorance here to dissect. Alaska’s strength is not at DCA or on the East Coast. It’s on the West Coast. Alaska’s customers are not looking to get from DCA to ICT on Alaska. Therefore, your whole nonsense about Delta using MSP and DTW to alleviate connections over SEA is just that, nonsense. Alaska is happy to let AA take those customers from DCA to ICT. Alaska’s core customer base is in Seattle and on the West Coast where they value a nonstop home to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, or a connection onward to Eugene or MRY. You don’t seem to understand that Alaska doesn’t have to be everything to everyone living in DCA because that isn’t their customer. They’re perfectly happy letting AA take a customer that needs to stop somewhere in the midwest on their way home to the West Coast. It’s a big part of why the AS/AA relationship works so well… AA is weak on the West Coast, AS is strong there but weak everywhere else.
Tell us which markets Alaska needs to connect via DCA vs PHL/ORD/DFW/MIA and the ONLY way to get them there is via DCA connecting on to AA, yields be damned for Alaska because THEY HAVE TO USE DCA to connect to this ONE unique place. Tell us that location that DCA is the only close spot to do it… You seem to assume that Alaska is a global carrier needing hubs across the US to get their customers to ORF or MDT or BTV (all of which can be done by Alaska out of SEA to another AA hub for a connection rather than sacrificing yields for the sake of “the longest Alaska flight possible, screw the DCA yields on DCA-SEA…) Alaska cares more about keeping their passengers in their ecosystem and not having them fly Delta out of SEA and, while it’s obviously optimal for AS to take them as far as possible, it’s not as though AS is going to sacrifice yields on a route when a simple connection in PHL can do almost anything DCA can do and, if not, DFW/ORD/MIA can. For that obscure Alaska customer living in the PNW that needs to get to that random city you can’t even identify… I’m quite certain Alaska doesn’t care if they connect over ORD, PHL, or DFW to get there if it means maintaining a higher yield on SEA-DCA. Frankly, this is a dumb argument to even be having. You only betray how little you know about how revenue management works though it’s not surprising since you also know nothing about how revenue accounting works. Not everything in the world is delta-centric. Airlines like Alaska thrive by exceling where they’re strong and having partners where they are not.
“I’m sure you weren’t thinking about AA’s A321T strategy when you dinged DL’s 757 business class strategy but that is the classic example of “you can push RASM so high that costs don’t work any more””
I’m aware of the strategy. Are you suggesting LAX-DCA is on par with JFK-LAX for yields? because it isn’t, buddy. You made the absolute statement about rasm premium and, per usual, ignore what else matters in comparing an AA/AS/DL lax-dca route. I’m simply explaining to you how rasm and casm work on a 200 seat vs a 168 seat plane with the same trip costs. Generally, you’ll see higher RASM but you’ll also see higher Casm. Look at you learning something… You try to trot out info about Yield premiums when the two carriers are using different strategies. there’s no doubt Delta is trying to differentiate itself in a market where it is the weaker on both ends of the route and good for them. But that doesn’t change that Delta is flying a high casm plane and AA/AS get high total revenue per trip with lower costs given aircraft type. There really is no doubt that the AA NEO is making more revenue per flight on LAX-DCA with a lower trip cost than the 168-seat Delta 752. Both planes should carry about the same number of people in their normal domestic configurations but the Delta 752 will consume more gas than a NEO. So if you’re going to try to make up stuff to prove a point that isn’t there, try something else.
“yeah, you just want to argue.”
sure, “Tim”… I quoted you then responded to your absolutist statements. But, I get it, you love to hope no one corrects your misinformation in an attempt to look smart while anyone with experience can see how low your comprehension is on this.
I have work to do. You don’t seem to have a life except in the comment sections. And, Frankly, I think we annoyed enough people yesterday. And I’m sure you’ll come back with “No YOU annoyed them” lol.
Have a great one, “Tim”. Such an easy way to prove that Tim Dunn is your real name. If it is, we already know what your real name is and all you’d be doing is having a third party validate it. But…. it isn’t and you just love to attack others over something you do yourself.
hypocrisy:
mocking the length of someone else’s post and then post one that is actually longer
bipolar:
continuing to flip back and worth about whether you care about anyone’s user name.
argumentative:
being unable to accept that you accomplish nothing other than instigate a response by talking about user names, metal state or alcohol or drug consumption – but
stupid:
unable to accept an olive branch because doing so would make you look weak – and the loser than you are
ignorant:
the size of a plane does not determine revenue and, if AA does so well on LAX-DCA, where does it lose the billions that are what separates its profitability from DL’s?
Of course, AA has a revenue advantage IN TOTAL over DL to LAX and AS does and will to SEA because they both have 2 flights in a market where DL has and will have 1.
And, yet, DL manages to get the highest revenue per seat system wide and from LAX and SEA domestically including from SEA to the east coast.
It is not a surprise that AS doesn’t use an aircraft with a lie flat seat because they don’t have one but that AA does not when it could.
DL might or might not pull out the “trump card” of a 321NEO with a lie flat cabin in the SEA market – or they might not.
the 757 is still the most operationally capable narrowbody on the planet -which explains why DL uses it now from DCA.
thank you for admitting you annoy a lot of people by your incessant arguing.
just stop instead of continuing to do the same thing
yes, you always have something else to do until it comes down to making sure you get in the last word
hypocrisy: mocking the length of someone else’s post and then post one that is actually longer bipolar
@Zac – noise? that was a complaint in the 1960s [though the bigger issue was shifting long haul traffic to Dulles, but local groups complained about noise, they still complain but planes are far quieter and crucially planes flying longer routes these days aren’t louder…]
The issue is that (1) United lobbies to keep its virtual stranglehold on long distance flights out at Dulles, they don’t want competition, and (2) airlines without as many DCA slots as American don’t want to give American the ability to better maximize its slot portfolio.
Of course the better solution is to abolish slots altogether and just move to congestion pricing! But carriers with slots don’t want that so it’s not on the table.
“mocking the length of someone else’s post and then post one that is actually longer”
yes, Tim. I quote you to respond directly vs your usual bashing. Of course it’s sometimes longer as a result when using direct quotes from your verbose responses.
Quick question: “hypocrisy: mocking the length of someone else’s post and then post one that is actually longer bipolar”
are you missing punctuation here? I’m not sure where bipolar fits in to this sentence so I’m not sure how distraught I should be about this insult. Seems like you were trying to define the word “bipolar” for me then clicked post too soon.
Also… “someone else’s post and then *posting*”. There ya go. Fixed it.
“bipolar:
continuing to flip back and worth about whether you care about anyone’s user name.
argumentative:”
Do you know how to read? You don’t seem capable of understanding my point that I don’t care what your real name but you need to stop attacking others for what you do yourself. I didn’t think that was so tough to understand, but I guess it is.
“being unable to accept that you accomplish nothing other than instigate a response by talking about user names, metal state or alcohol or drug consumption”
Then don’t post drunk while rambling incoherently. That’s an easy fix. And don’t use fake names while claiming it’s your real name. Again, easy to validate your real name. We already know what it is if it’s really your name, so you have nothing to gain but credibility.
“stupid:
unable to accept an olive branch because doing so would make you look weak – and the loser than you are” (think you meant “that you are”. Insults work so much better when you proofread, Tim)
Wow… did I miss an olive branch from you in all the insults? Your subtlety with the olive branch was positively unmatched. Was it hidden in the “Max stupid” or “Max hypocrisy”? Was it an anagram and I need to go find random letters in your response to piece together the olive branch?
You don’t seem to know what those words mean, Tim. But thanks for confirming you need a dictionary for Christmas.
” AA does so well on LAX-DCA, where does it lose the billions that are what separates its profitability from DL’s?”
It’s actually amusing that you think you can extrapolate reasons of profitability between AA and Delta off this one route. AA’s reasons are a lot deeper than DCA-LAX but suffice it to say, if AA had DCA margins system-wide, you wouldn’t be crowing about Delta margins.
But I do applaud your normal go-to of trying to bring everything back to overall system profitability when you have nothing left to say on topic. It’s an admirable attempt at misdirection from you and one you employ quite often.
“the 757 is still the most operationally capable narrowbody on the planet -which explains why DL uses it now from DCA.”
None of those ops specs on the 30+ year old 757 are needed on LAX-DCA. Delta operates one of those most fuel-inefficient planes on the route. Again, AA’s NEO makes the most revenue per trip with the lowest fuel cost per trip.
But again, whew. You must be so exhausted trying to come up with all these insults for me. Spend more time proofreading your insults rather than on thesaurus.com. I really expected higher quality insults from you since it’s all you do when you can’t respond to a data-based response.
“yes, you always have something else to do until it comes down to making sure you get in the last word”
Busted 😉 See, we do have things in Common, “Tim”. Like your endless need to throw the last insult and poorly articulated dictionary definitions. Focus on what we share, buddy.
“No one here but you cares about revenue and profits” I care.
thank you, Dave
Lots of people do care and even more should. The notion that someone should expend resources to make me happy is certain to lead to disappointment. Airlines are not charities and can’t lose money consistently.
Max,
it is entirely possible that AA gets a higher profit margin on DCA-LAX but DL 1. consistently spends less on fuel – in gallons consumed and price per gallon paid and 2. generates more revenue per dollar of fuel spend so, you clearly must understand that AA trails DL on a system basis and in a whole lot of other places and 2. The DOT didn’t care about specific fuel burn in order to award these routes
feel free to let us know where AA underperforms DL in fuel burn and revenue but, as we will see once again when AA gets around to reporting its 3rd quarter financials, there is a substantial amount of underperformance and less efficiency elsewhere on its system.
Cherrypicking data may be fun but it doesn’t change what matters which is that AA and DL operate far more than just from DCA-LAX and, even if DL doesn’t make as much money as AA (and it very well may), it more than makes up for it elsewhere.
When you and others start telling us where AA and UA and WN underperforms DL, we’ll be all ears…. but those places most certainly exist since DL’s track record of the most profitable US airline doesn’t look like it will be broken any time soon.
Not Tim now taking the conversation in an entirely new direction and topic when he’s out of responses to the actual topic. What a surprise.
Tim, we all know you have a couple go-to topics when you’re out of ideas to respond on topic. It’s always amusing you think you can boil Delta’s profitability down to a few small areas in a comment section. There are a lot of factors but, again, not on topic and I don’t have much interest or time to play your typical misdirection game when you know you’re beat on the actual topic.
TGIF.