Revenue problems at Southwest Airlines were revealed this week to be even worse than we thought as the carrier faces a campaign by an activist investor to oust current management and force the airline to shift its business model to become more like American Airlines, Delta, and United.
Before Elliott Capital’s near-$2 billion investment, Southwest was already talking up changes to offer more premium products that customers would pay more for. There’s been a trend towards premium, and also long haul international, both of which the airline has been unable to take advantage of. Their product and route network haven’t aligned with what customers have most wanted to buy.
There are unconfirmed reports that seem to suggest how Southwest Airlines intends to handle redeye flying, assigned seats, and a new extra legroom section of their aircraft.
The airline would certainly issue a denial because these plans aren’t finalized in the sense that they could change, timelines could shift, and they have not been announced yet. Announcements are expected at the airline’s fall Investor Day. Consider this a work in progress, though it’s expected that the final version will fall along these lines.
Much of this is based on Enilria‘s summary of the state of internal chatter at the airline:
- Love Cabin would be extra legroom seats at the front of the aircraft. This will entail taking planes out of service to accommodate reconfiguring cabins. It’s possible that adding extra legroom seats wouldn’t reduce the number of seats per aircraft. Currently Southwest offers more legroom than standard economy compared to Delta, American or United. They do not advertise their legroom advantage versus competitors. Regular coach seating could get tighter.
- Blocked middle seats? Southwest could offer blocked middle seats for sale in Love Cabin, along the lines of Frontier, where the airline sells a seat block to both the aisle and middle seat passenger as an option. That gives them not just extra legroom but extra width as well. And the opportunity to sell that middle seat block twice, combined with Southwest’s lower than industry average load factors, could mean a boost to revenue compared to trying to sell that seat. It is not clear how firm this is in the airline’s plan.
- Redeye training for crews by end of summer to allow for limited redeye flying over the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. New union contracts now provide for redeye operations, though there are also technical system issues that need updating and validating. Southwest, in the past, has had to reset their systems each night in the middle of the night. Also, reportedly “there is a crew software system that also needs to be upgraded first.”
- Basic economy I’ve heard several reports that the airline is working on a replacement for their cheapest Wanna Get Away fare. Presumably these passengers would board last and have last choice of seats. In Enilria‘s version, they’d get access to seat assignments (if assigned seats are offered throughout the cabin, not just the Love Cabin) or boarding order only an hour prior to departure. Two free checked bags are so baked into Southwest’s value proposition that this could remain, although I’ve heard it both ways. There could be change restrictions introduced.
Enilria also reports that Southwest has updated its revenue management system “in recent days.” They’ve talked about an upgrade for months, and I assumed it was already in place, but they blamed their dismal second quarter revenue guidance update on their inability to adjust revenue to the current demand environment. The new system prices based on origin and destination city, rather than based on availability for each leg of a trip. This will take time to tune.
I think that basic economy is a mistake for Southwest. Their entire brand – which has tremendous value – is predicated on its democratic experience. Southwest’s stock is still heavily priced by the market, trading at outsized multiples compared to other airlines even with its current challenges. Making Southwest more like the rest of the industry, which trades around six times earnings, doesn’t seem like a path towards turning around investor returns.
However offering premium products and partnering with international airlines both seem like strong opportunities for the airline, and keeping planes in the air longer does as well. Their costs have grown substantially, and they have a revenue problem, so eking out incremental revenue against which to spread fixed costs makes sense. So does giving consumers options to buy things that they want.
As much as I’d hate to see Southwest’s generous seat pitch go, it’s not something that they advertise or that most customers realize. They haven’t been leveraging this costly arrangement to their benefit, although customers will certainly notice the difference once it’s gone. I will lament the change but it makes sense for the airline to monetize their seats rather than ‘giving away’ the extra benefit that not every customer values in terms of higher cost. The airline is likely leaving money on the table with its current generosity.
Third photo : the lady walking in the boots , with a blue shirt , is a parody of a confused female Brandon .
Just as EasyJet has transitioned from low-cost to essentially a legacy airline but with ala carte product offerings, so should Southwest. Southwest should offer 2-3 rows of business-class and also offer an expanded meal and drink program that passengers can book and reserve ahead of time. Separate themselves from the legacies by offering a meal for a nominal charge of $15.
something only southwest deals with is the taper from row 5 forward – in order to maintain 31″ in the window seats the rows are not exactly perpindicular to the aisle, they are rotated about 5 degrees, which results in the aisle seat pitch dropping to 30″ in row 2
these are the kettle’s favorite seats, so they will be unhappy with a love cabin, but otherwise i applaud the everylovingdaylights out of this move because it means YOU CAN’T SIT THERE UNLESS YOU PAY FOR IT NO MATTER WHAT
the remainder of the miracles, bridge & tunnel, ghetto, lice and delusionals can shuffle on back and i can have a workable airline with my bag over my head
bring me home herb!
Blocking a middle seat is misguided and doesn’t provide much additional comfort.
It’s more effective to wholly remove 1 row and add 6″ to 5 rows of seats. That’s a way more attractive method to collecting incremental revenue.
@ Albert — Grow up and trying being respectful. I know it is difficult when your hero is a petulant child himselff.
Excellent article with accurate analysis.
As a customer spending my own money, I don’t like losing benefits, but the company has to make money to keep flying. Times change. Twenty years ago I could pay $250 for eight one-way tickets and earn an unrestricted transcon round trip worth $300 or more. That couldn’t last either.
@Gene: Grow up and try being respectful yourself. Here’s one of your last posts: “Yeah, and then the Orange Idiot handed out trillions of dollars to everyone under the sun through PPP loans and “stimulus” checks with his name on them. Why is anyone surprised that this caused infatlion? You know inflation occirs on a lag, and The Idiot caused all of it. Now, everyone convneniently blames the current president. But, you know, people are stupid. If you think inflation was bad, just wait if The Idiot is re-elected. I predict the worst inflation in US history with no Federal Reserve independence to reign it in”. Candidly, @Albert’s comment was downright mild compared to the evil garbage that you spout.
I can envision customer training issues as all those wheelchair and families boarding first grab the extra legroom seats they didn’t pay for. I pity the flight attendants.
Seems an appropriate time to short Southwest stock.
I fly Southwest Airlines because of what it was all about in decades-past: an airline in which no one gets to be an elite snob. But groupthink leads pundits to concluding you have to have a class system. Maybe so, but that will end my “Love” for SWA. There are so many people, paid and unpaid, trying to come up with ways to extract more cash from people per square inch of aircraft. I get it. The inefficiencies and grossly inflated pay for airline employees should get just as much scrutiny, especially those in middle management on up to the top.
To me it makes sense to segregate the flights by distance. Shorter flights can have open seating and longer flights can have assigned seats. I think that would solve some of the big gripes of frequent travelers shying away from WN.
My guess is they will make the extra leg room seats a different color material and you will be able to select any “Midnight Desert” color seat in the back if you have a regular ticket while extra leg room seats in “Sonora Red” will be assigned to specific travelers buying higher fares so they can boot someone if they are seated in spot.
To help increase business and maximize corporate profits, Southwest Airlines could take marketing inspiration from Spirit Airlines’ playbook and sponsor bumfight-type entertainment, with complimentary unsophisticated gate agent behavior, at Florida departure gates and other public airport areas.
Funny that within the halls of SWA, NONE of the above is rumored. These armchair CEO’s have wild imaginations.
@Alert She’s just in shock, because she was sexually assaulted by an orange Cheeto.
The Cheeto then paid hush money, to try and win an election.
Go with the blocked seat idea. I don’t mind paying for an empty middle seat, I just don’t buy a second seat on SW and pay full fare, if the flight is over 2.5 hours I’ll fly someone else and buy business or first usually the same price as two seats on SW and I get a meal, drinks and full recline, board first and bags are included. Southwest makes it hard for me to give them my business these days.
Taking an already terrible airline and making it worse.
Nothing that has been discussed here is new or hasn’t been proposed or even suggested or discussed by WN.
It was certain that WN mgmt was working on a proposal that they intended to roll out in the fall and the EIliott involvement might push they to act sooner.
I have to wonder if they really want to call anything the “Love” cabin or section… do they really want to have the “unloved” or “less loved” cabin?
Until they offer a “first class” seat (blocking the middle doesn’t really get you more butt room unless you like sitting right on the hump), I avoid flying southwest at all costs. The “devolve” seats are extremely uncomfortable for me, even “short” flights. Gimme an F seat (ie: only 2-2 on the 737) with bigger recline, and I’ll probably take it (depending on what they charge).
mjonis,
WN is not going to add first class seats. Simply taking planes out of service to add an extra legroom section is a significant amount of effort esp. given that they have so few planes relative to what they want. Repitching coach seats isn’t terribly complex so they could do a plane a night in multiple maintenance bases.
WN isn’t going to be for everyone.
And not having someone next to you is huge…in many cases I and others prefer a standard coach seat with an empty middle seat over an extra legroom section.
and the whole purpose of adding a separate section of the plane is to make the best seats available to the highest revenue passengers and not the preboarders that make up an ailment for a day to be the rest of the crowd. The people that legitimately need help and extra time boarding will get a decent seat – but hopefully behind the wing which arrives at the gate the same time as the nose of the aircraft.
I don’t know about you but pretty much every plane I fly is near sold out so middle seat shenanigans are a moot point. I fly Southwest a lot .. It is my go to airline as I fly out of Oakland before looking to SFO ..I fly southwest because of their routes ..the seat pitch.. and the legroom that none of the others have or are very uncomfortable ..not mentioned is the fact the seats are 2 to 4 inches wider.. I love the way the planes load too…no seat assignments…take what’s there..
I don’t think it’s fair to say people don’t notice the extra pitch. It’s not even just a matter that I notice it but it’s a huge factor in why I choose Southwest over airlines whenever possible. If they close that gap, it puts them as no better than the others losing that advantage. They should market it before removing it if they feel they’re not getting their value.
How does introducing basic economy help them financially? The planes fly packed to begin with under the standard fare model
My family and I like Southwest just the way it is! Been traveling with SW for many years! Don’t change!
TJTeaxs – you are full of shit.
Southwest should not let an activist investor who likely owns a private jet screw up why people love Southwest Airlines. Turning SW into more like American or Delta would be a HUGE mistake. If SW just becomes a nickel and dime carrier their downturn in loss from costumers fleeing would be enormous.
They have to do something about their routing or they will not survive as a me too carrier.
They often fly hundreds of miles out of direct paths between origin and destination and price those high cost routes at a discount.
For example: RNO to DEN to SJD or SJD to MDW to LAS to RNO. The direct 1 stop routing is RNO to PHX to SJD and that is 6-9 hours less flying.
If they continue as a short hop airline they need to become much more efficient to stay in business as no one should be flying 2 or 3 stops on a domestic route.
Elliot will certainly load them with debt (for a fee) and put them into bankruptcy when it fails.
WN needs to figure out if they want to become Sporit or Delta.
Neither is good for the customer but at least, this “not good enough for biz travelers and too good for the cattle” area will see them die on the vine.
And for Cheeto’s sake, UOGRADE YOUR DAMN IT SYSTEMS.
Sorry for yelling…that last one is a huge obstacle they stumble over everywhere and often. Their leadership is just too self-absorbed to see this
Welcome to the ULCC world, Southwest. Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and Sun Country are ready for the battle.
I hope Southwest doesn’t make any major changes; the only thing that I really want them to sort out is the pre-boarding issues/abuses.
Agree on Basic Economy being a mistake if they went that route. Southwest branding is all about the friendly image and not seeming like they nickel-and-dime for everything ala ULCCs.
A full blown first class I would see struggling for the same reasons – the typical Southwest flier isn’t going to pay extra for first class. They might pick up some business travelers but not enough to make up for the seat space they removed that they now won’t sell to revenue customers. The really lucrative business travelers (what remains of them) are still going to have the lack of international partners/routes and alliance status benefits as a barrier to spending a majority of their dollars on Southwest versus any of the legacy carriers.
Extra legroom seats have a better chance of driving revenue growth without alienating their customer base and abandoning their brand image. Price the upgrade to those seats based on flight length, $35 – $100 per seat. Include them automatically for Business Select fare types. Add a few seat upgrades as a benefit to their more premium credit cards (either automatically or after spending X dollars per year) and to A-list Preferred status to drive more interest in those. Southwest could rip out one row of seats and rearrange to get 5 – 6 rows of extra legroom, plus they can up-charge for the bulk-head and exit row seats that have that legroom now, which seems like a net positive on total revenue.
Otherwise the main Southwest issue is they need to shore up operational issues from their antiquated systems. More than anything their reliability with the Christmas and other meltdowns are driving customers away. A perfect example, our family flew Southwest to Seattle for a cruise last year. The cruise and airport share one port authority that can handle bags between the two. All other major airlines had options to check bags from your cruise ship right to the airport if you had a flight home after the cruise within 12 hours, allowing you some time to explore Seattle and not have to haul big bags all the way back. Southwest couldn’t do it if your flight wasn’t within 3 hours. Instead of having that last day available to relax in the city we had to go the airport with all our checked bags and then sit pre-security with 100s of other Southwest passengers as we couldn’t check bags even at the airport until 3 hours before departure. SeaTac pre-security is garbage with no lounges, no restaurants, and almost no seating. That single experience has pretty much flipped us entirely to AA fliers out of our hub (Phoenix).
I paid extra for early boarding. To my surprise I got B1 & B2 for my hubby and I. So now I’m piseed. Paid extra money, only to let the freebies, aka, family boarding to board ahead of me. .?? Where is the fairness with Southwest.
What a stick-it to a regular customer. NEVER WILL I DO EARLY BOARDING AGAIN. YOU SCREW REGULAR CUSTOMERS THAT WAY
It seems ironic that folks with no practical airline experience now want to drive the bus. Isn’t that what got most of the legacy full-service carriers into trouble? Letting the bean-counters call the shots?
Southwest’s value proposition is three-fold:
1. Two free checked bags
2. Greater leg room throughout the aircraft
3. A simple fare structure that almost anyone can understand.
Their challenges are primarily their level of automation and their ability to respond to changing market conditions.
Mess with their value proposition, and they lose their signature appeal. Anything the new investors propose must be an enhancement to what Southwest already does well.
Ive already cut back my trips with Southwest out of DC due to rates tend not to be much less if at all for my destinations. Plus seems like less non-stops (I.e. Orlando, Atlanta. Tampa).
If they are going to have basic fares that have you load last, might as well fly legacy airlines
I can see Southwest Airlines going bankrupt if they become like the AA, UA and DL.
We generally prefer Southwest when we fly domestic. I’m willing to pay for earlier boarding as even with the “miracle flights” we always seem to get decent seats together. The one thing that would push me to another carrier would be if they decreased the seat pitch. Although if they offered an extra leg room section for a reasonable cost, I would probably take advantage of it.
Seriously y’all . . . curtail your daytime drinking if you’re going to post comments.
With the most recent contract in place, red-eye flights were not addressed for the flight attendants. It is still a huge gray area. As for the suggestions of meals for long flights, there is literally no room for storage or preparation of meals. The way the galleys are configured there is not room for a flight attendant’s water bottle. Meals are a moot point. Passengers are oversized and no matter what the seat configuration, they occupy one and one half seats while only purchasing one. Elliot has their heads up their rears with all their suggestions:
I’ll be glad to see changes even if it costs more. So tired of paying for earlybird only to have 10 families in front of me that didn’t pay anything extra to board before me. Even the handicapped seating dilemma doesn’t make me as enraged.At least they can’t sit in the exit rows. We stopped flying southwest because the rage was real. I still have points I need to use but not paying for earlybird again.
Two free checked bags and open seating are two things that make Southwest Southwest. The fact that Southwest now has slightly more economy class legroom (not economy plus) than all other carriers except for Jet Blue should also be given more emphasis as another distinctive. If Southwest messes with two bags fly free and open seating, that would alienate a significant slice of the people who fly Southwest including the undersigned.
Southwest has become an irritation as of late when flying. I’ve encountered the “seat saving” shenanigans on my last two flights for which I had to counter bully the perpetrators.
Want to fix the situation:
– Assigned seating for ALL!!
– Big Seats like Spirit or Business Class seats (middle seat blocked) like some small Euro airlines
– Business class is the first to board
– Complementary cocktails and extra snacks (not meals) for business class
– Don’t call it Love Seats, call it LUV seats
– Want to Get Away tickets only allowed one free bag
– Red Eye service, but only to other large hubs, not small towns
– Board the “Jesus Jetway” gang after group Five or Six or Seven or……..
Southwest is leaving money on the table with its current business model. Needs to catch up!!
@Joe, I have flown European business (middle seat blocked out) on narrowbodies multiple times. I’m indifferent between that and a 2-2 first class. Of course, the real beauty of European business is they don’t seem to upgrade coach passengers to the business section. Last time, I was the only business-class passenger. For full information, I would be unlikely to pay the premium they want for EB on intra-European flights. I get it because I do pay for J across the Atlantic.
@TedPoco: “I can envision customer training issues as all those wheelchair and families boarding first grab the extra legroom seats they didn’t pay for.” I can’t envision SW having extra legroom seats without having seating to those (and likely the entire plane) assigned.
@MARIE PAYNE: “not mentioned is the fact the seats are 2 to 4 inches wider.” SW has the same 737s others have, not a TARDIS. All US carriers have wider seats in their narrowbody Airbus and Embrarer fleets (plus the 717). Aerolopa has SW at 17.6″ and UA at 17.5″ in the MAX8.
After all these years of very successfully existing in their own little world, it’s finally catching us to WN and it’s about time! The today’s financial realities are catching up with them; they have had operational meltdowns’; IT systems are stone age and more and more inflight issues.
As a departed former legacy carrier CEO said:
“They need to put every aspect of the airline through a major car wash!”
With Business Select, a person is paying about the same as a legacy carrier on any given route. What exactly is that person receiving for the price? I’ll take the premium cabin and better on-time record of a legacy carrier every single time. (Never mind lounge availability.)
SWA will just become another airline if it simply becomes a wall street MBA monetization scheme. It will remove its competitive advantage.
Here’s the answer, f**k the shareholders and put that money into real comfort and service to passengers. Southwest would quickly make more money than they know what do do with, and, the shareholders get more as well over the medium-to-long term. Generally speaking, EVERYONE HATES THE FLYING EXPERIENCE, it’s time for someone to break the mold instead of emulating each other in pursuit of extracting every last nickel from every last passenger, comfort and dignity be damned. The only reason that works to the extent it does is because of the lack of competition. And it all SUCKS.
This ‘family boarding’ abuse nonsense has driven me away from SW. Certainly, senior mgmt knows this is a problem that needs to be addressed? A solution? Make the first 18 rows ‘premium’ and allow ‘pre-boards to take any seat after row 18- watch the abuse drop way down.
Been a 100k mile plus southwest customer for 8 years. They currently assign priority status at just 35k miles flown. I always thought that was way too low- priority plus is 70k plus miles flown. The only difference is 2 free drinks plus free internet. -as a priority flyer you get A tickets status no matter how late you buy your ticket. They need to bump this to 50k. Min miles. Too many people qualify for priority. with the low bar –
I won’t fly Any airline that cannot guarantee that I won’t be stuck sitting in a middle seat. And many others are similar.
This is of course because they allow people to spill over into the middle seat. It’s unfair and uncomfortable for them to get away with selling sometimes two portions of the middle seat twice or three times.
Plexiglass dividers between seats would be amazing to enforce this.
Happy to pay fairly to get any other available seat though.
I fly SWA exclusively so I can get to A list preferred for early boarding and free wi-fi. If they change the perks I can just as easily fly American. I think a lot of business travelers and long term customers will be upset. Oh well.
Southwest needs to implement ALL of the recommendations mentioned in this article. It should also consider merging with Canadian airline Porter which would offer more premium options to its travelers, expand its international footprint, capitalize on the seasonal travel market, and expand its presence at the thirteen US cities which Porter Airlines flies out of to their Canadian destinations.
We paid for a “Premium business class seats.” But as seats are not assigned, after boarding the numerous halt, lame, & blind(Southwest miracles), we were forced to the back. We were offered a drink voucher… Which amounted to an 8 oz plastic cocktail cup FULL of large ice cubes with about 3 oz. soda.
The seats are thin, so any item placed in the seat pocket is a gouge in the back.
Staff seem pleasant.
Cannot see me choosing Southwest again.
Southwest needs to update their various systems first before trying something new. The increased profit from ironing out the inefficiencies and having a more demand responsive pricing system will make a much greater value difference than any change in their offerings.
WN made this mess by allowing it’s preboard situation to get out of control. Just assign seats and have the preboards board after A-listers like other airlines. Simple. Their flight crews have been telling them this for years. The company created this situation by ignoring it. Management is completely out of touch with what’s happening with customers on the front line and that’s incompetent and unexceptable.
@ Air
Yes, on the plexiglass dividers. This is the best idea ever. I’m so sick of these fatties spilling over. We should be charging them for part of our seats. I’m so sick of this crap.
I gave up flying SWA when on a flight leaving out of Tampa, there were 20 folks lined up in wheelchairs so they could board first. One of these so called handicapped people got out of her wheelchair and walked halfway down the concourse to use the bathroom.
As an ex employee of SWA, I can say with certainty the leadership is laughable, and their efforts to upgrade their infrastructure in many cases became ‘make this look prettier’ instead of ‘build in redundancy and scalability’. Oh and they hired a bunch of goons from United to head their efforts. It would be a surprise if their existing leadership team would even think to go against the will of some hedge fund to preserve what little remains of the Southwest of old.
I am a Saw frequent flyer but lately, they have no nonstop flights from Tampa Bay area to NYC. What should be a 2 hr flight has now become 5 to 9 hrs with ridiculous layovers.
SWA fares are already noncommpetitive with other low cost airlines. No longer the cheapest on many routes.
I have been flying southwest for 20 years, both for business and pleasure, but I am disenchanted with two things; (i) early boarding for the so called handicapped; it is out of control and insulting and (ii) the reduced amount of non stop flights. I am considering changing to Jet Blue.
I have went away from SWA and started using Untied and others . The main reason being how they have lost control of the pre-board situation. They offer Business for A1-15 and then allow twenty plus pre- boards. Why did I waste the extra points for Business?
I fly Southwest 99% of the time and have for many years. I really hope they don’t implement this nonsense. Their seating/boarding policy is FAR superior to any other airline, seats are reasonably comfortable, I never check bags but appreciate the carryon + personal item, and do appreciate the free snacks and beverages. Fares are still much lower than their competition, although it would be nice to see more direct flights. Even the short routes seem to have layovers now. Their excellent customer service and flight policies are why I’ve stuck with them for years. Hopefully they don’t change.
I agree that SW boarding policy needs fixing. I am 77 years old and pay as much as $65 to be in boarding group A1-15. I used to pay for early bird check in instead, but having been being relegated to boarding group B too many times (after preboards, 60 A group passengers, and families with children) this was a waste of money. I have watched perfectly able individuals preboard (for which they paid nothing extra). This practice is becoming more prevalent (I fly SW at least twice a month to different destinations, so this is not an isolated observation). A sense of entitlement seems to have superseded the reason that preboarding was initiated.
I hate every airline except Southwest. As a tall person with long legs, I HAVE noticed — and appreciated:– their generous seat pitch. And I love that they don’t charge for bags or for changes. I recently had to cancel — because of a death — a trip to Juneau, where Southwest doesn’t fly,, so naturally I lost all my money on those tickets (Delta and Alaska). Airlines are tyrannical, unforgiving, greedy and despicable. Except Southwest.
And now that’s going to change just so some greedy hedge fund managers, who wouldn’t ever.fkt coach, can make even more money while sticking it to the rest of us.
I hate this. Hate it, hate it, hate it!.
These changes are horrible, especially the seat pitch! I’ve always chosen SW because the seats have more room and I can check 2 bags for free. While I haven’t seen the pre-board been abused by a lot of people, you can’t always see a person’s disability. I had back surgery and could walk fine, but was limited in what I could carry, so I had to have someone help with my carryon bag and personal item.
@Michael A. Makofske. Delta offers a credit on a future flight when you cancel, with no fee, except for basic economy. You might want to research your case. I’d rather pay a bit extra and get 34″ on a legacy carrier in the extra-legroom coach seats when flying coach over the 32″ ( 31″ in 737-700) on SW. Plus, I get an assigned seat. I am short with short legs.
I have little sypathy for short and small crybabies about airplane seat comfort. At 6′ 1″, the difference between economy on American (30 inches), Southwest 737-700 (31 inches) and Southwest 737-800 (32 inches) is clear. Adding 6 or 12 more seats will have customers screaming, without increasing revenue much. Conduct a study that will show that regular seatingʻ on Southwest is close in comfort to extra legroom on United and American., and then advertise that fact.
What other airlines charge for 3 or 4 extra inches of legroom is a ripoff. 50 years ago a similar percentage increase in fare bought you a 4 across first class seat with 38 inches of pitch. 34 inches, which is now extra legroom, was standard economy. Southwest’s product hasn’t changed in 50 years, what has changed is that everyone else’s standard economy has sunk to a level below what Greyhound and Trailways offered 50 years ago.
I have flown with Southwest for over 25 years and though I get a little disturbed about the pre-borders when I see 30 people pre boarding before Frequent flyers.
With That said…. I would still rather deal with that than these ridiculous changes some greedy people want to make. I don’t see this helping Southwest in the long run.. As far as other things that I can purchase on the flight if people feel that way, then they should fly United or Alaska or whatever and stay off of Southwest leave Southwest alone it worked!!! That’s why I’ve stuck with Southwest all these years plus their amazing crew!!
I don’t like paying for all the extras on the other major Airlines and I’ve always been proud to say that I fly Southwest. But if they change, I guess I’ll be changing also to another airline, Maybe one that doesn’t allow the plane to be filled up with pre-borders. Before the loyal A- listers customer.
They think their sales are hurting now. Wait till they take these greedy steps!! Sad days coming for SWA!!
I have been a SWA fan for nearly 2 decades and have always promoted their unique open seating as well as free bags and most recently the leg room. I flew Delta last year for first time in over 20 years and was appalled at the nonexistent leg room in the main cabin. I paid additional $45 just for an isle seat and had to pay for checked bag as well. I have been watching current airfare for an upcoming trip to Disney and SWA would normally be my first choice however there is no nonstop flight which there normally is and the flight times offered are horrible with long layovers. Not to mention the ticket prices are higher than average for September. I also can’t find price for early bird in advance – must book first. So disappointed how that part of program has changed. And now have business class fees to guarentee A1-A15. So confused thought that was part of Earlybird?As for customers taking advantage of wheel chairs just to board early- Southwest needs to require proof before customer is allowed. I have to admit this up coming trip most likely won’t be booked with SWA which really saddens me especially since I have $100 gift card I thought I’d be using. SWA you can’t have it both ways – either you become like the rest of the airlines and do assigned seating or bring back your roots of open seating with more nonstop flight options especially on flights under 3 hours, shorter layovers,5 hours and longer is ridiculous. And only earlybird option.
I agree with do many of the comments above. The preboading is out of hand. When I pay for section A 1-15 and then 12 wheelchairs are line-up with their one or two family members. When it’s my turn to board the majority of the front seating is taken right along with the overhead for luggage. Something needs to be done about this way of boarding.
Southwest sucks. Bring on a true first class cabin and assigned seats then we’ll talk. Southwest is not innovative anymore. It is a legacy airline without a premium product.
If WN becomes the same as the other US carriers, there’s no incentive to stick with. As A-listers, my spouse and I would revert to prioritizing UA or AA for domestic travel. Without their egalitarian bus in the sky approach, they’ll rapidly fail.
I have to say that Alaska Airlines was our go to for any trip at a certain time. When it became impossible to change or cancel a flight because of illness without them charging all but a few dollars of the entire fare for doing so we moved on to SW Air. We have flown Jet Blue, AA Airlines, and United Airlines cross country and will never do so again!! Hoping SW can work out the monetary problems with out making the changes that I’ve been reading about!! Only thing I agree with is requiring a document verifying that you are incapable of boarding without a wheelchair… The people that use this and don’t need it should be ashamed!
This is going to ruin Southwest. Greed always does. If it’s about money, it the wrong motive. I do think that all the “so-called” handicapped persons should have to show some type of medical reason. I’m just saying. Manny people are claiming handicap so they can board early. I’ve traveled many times on Southwest enough to know this.
Here are a few ideas. One: allow just one free checked bag. Two: charge for carry-ons, thus moving bags to the hold. Three: those in group A 1-15 ALWAYS board first. Four: preboarding will occur between groups B and C.
I wish WN luck since they tend to have happy employees.
In 100% agreement with what commenter Alex wrote:
“Southwest needs to update their various systems first before trying something new. The increased profit from ironing out the inefficiencies and having a more demand responsive pricing system will make a much greater value difference than any change in their offerings.”
Southwest needs to travel to different states to cause its more easier like to Puerto Rico that would be nice
@RF – Hear, hear! They really need a legacy-style F product to get the premium business travel revenue. The Love Cabin is a step in the right direction, but it’ll take a lot more than that.
My daughter is a spinal cord patient and for her safety we use a wheelchair on boarding ramps. She can walk, but like cerebral palsy and is a fall risk. Tripping would delay a LOT OF PEOPLE. BUT, she gets dirty looks from disbelievers. So now because of selfish people, she will possibly have to be “branded” with a scarlet letter for safe boarding. What a sad world we have devolved to.