Here’s the story of a family that tried to fly Delta a week and a half ago but was kicked off an oversold flight because they wouldn’t give up a seat they paid for so that another passenger could sit in it. Delta instructed them to treat their youngest child as a lap infant not to have them sit in a seat.
Here is a video of Delta airlines booting myself, my wife and my 2 children ages 1 and 2 off delta flight 2222 April 23 from Maui to LAX.
They oversold the flight and asked us to give up a seat we purchased for my older son that my younger son was sitting in. You will hear them lie to me numerous times to get my son out of the seat.The end result was we were all kicked off the flight. They then filled our 4 seats with 4 customers that had tickets but no seats.
They oversold the flight. When will this all stop? It was midnight in Maui and we had to get a hotel and purchase new tickets the following day.
The flight was delayed by about an hour.
The problem for Delta is this sounds like a passenger being kicked off an oversold United flight. The problem for the family is that they were doing something squirrely under standard airline rules (although it’s something that people in general might reasonably think is ok).
The family originally intended to fly with the young child as a lap infant, but they sent their 18 year old son home on an earlier flight. That way, they thought, they could just use his seat for the baby.
They boarded the flight, and the four family members took the four seats they had reserved.
The airline, though, saw only three of them as boarded. The 18 year old was a no show for the flight. And they gave the seat to another passenger.
The father says that “Delta knew he was planning to use the seat for his younger son when they boarded their return flight.”
“You’re saying you’re gonna give that away to someone else when I paid for that seat?” Brian Schear says to an airline employee. “That’s not right.”
When the family refused to move, the airline threatened them with jail — and worse.
They tried to refuse and argued with airline staff, but say they were threatened with being sent to jail.
“You have to give up the seat or you’re going to jail, your wife is going to jail and they’ll take your kids from you,” Brian Schear recalled the airline staff telling him.
They didn’t want to go to jail, so they agreed to hold the young son on a lap for the flight. The airline still kicked them off, they booked themselves a hotel room and paid “$2,000 for another flight the next day, on United.”
The family recorded video of the incident.
The parents were 100% in the wrong here, no?
This is unreal! Worse than the infamous United scenario! Is this the America I grew up in ?! Delta’s conduct is more like that one would expect of a company in a banana republic! Why have we not heard of this till now ? Absolutely incredible!
I don’t really see where the family has a legitimate argument here.
Correct, the parents are wrong for a number of reasons in this case but I do just want to touch on the biggest. At what point did you plan on telling the airline what you were doing? I guess when the plane was already fully boarded…. So Delta not having any clue that YOU decided to book your son on an earlier flight on a separate ticket, figures he is still set to board that aircraft. So Delta going through its normal government regulated procedures see’s that your son is a no show and that you potentially unlawfully checked him in without him ACTUALLY being there. At what point did you plan on stating your intent to the airline. A single phone call advising thew airline of YOUR changes would have let you know this cannot be done.
There is a number of ways this can go in favor of the airline….. ignorance in simply not calling to airline and asking what can be done in these situations should have been done.
Morons
@WRIGH324 Mostly agree with you but I don’t think it is “unlawful” to check the son in for the flight.
Delta (and legacies) wants to target those who don’t travel that much (i.e. basic Y) but they don’t want to deal with the baggage that comes with pax that don’t travel that much?
The principle to check someone in while not there is done all the time and perfectly fine. Where the potential for it to become unlawful is when there intent is to do so fully knowing the individual is not getting on the aircraft yet you are stating they indeed are.
And if they were a bit more clever and scanned the boarding pass of the surreptitiously checked-in other son, gate agents wouldn’t have even perceived him as a no-show, the 2-year old could have occupied the seat as they’d planned, and the teenager would even have earned miles for it to boot…
@G-flyer Now that would have been a plan!
They were definitely in the wrong thinking they could use that extra seat for the infant. You present three boarding passes, you get three seats, not four, and the airline counts three passengers, not four. I assume they did not try to pass off the infant as the 18-year-old. Either they were naively not aware of this, or they were deliberately trying to get away with substituting one passenger for another. If you buy a lap infant seat, and insist on taking a seat assigned to another passenger you’re going to have a problem. To the airline’s systems it’s as though I bought seats for me and my wife, but my wife didn’t fly and yet I insisted the seat next to me be left empty because I paid for it. That doesn’t work.
I don’t know that Delta did the best job of handling the interaction, but this is very different from booting a person off the plane who actually was sitting in his assigned seat.
So much for taller and/or heavier passengers purchasing an adjoining seat to have more room and be more comfortable on a flight. The airlines seem to have the right to take the adjoining seat away without compensation to the purchasing passenger, as they see fit. Since when is purchasing an extra adjoining seat a sin against the airline, punishable by arrest and getting kicked off the plane? Airlines seem to be losing the thread between need for higher security and acting with excessive authoritarianism and abysmal customer service. Low cost doesn’t need to be no class operation.
@walter Comparing the situation you describe with the incident in the story is apples and oranges. When a passenger purchases two seats for himself, the airline won’t take one away because the passenger who purchased the ticket is on board and flying. In the article, the purchasing passenger didn’t show for the flight. To Delta, it makes no difference as whether he was flying with other family members who did board the flight or flying by himself. The passenger was a no-show and the seat was then filled by the airline. It happens multiple times every day.
Yes that sucks, but listen to the FA’s and none of this would have happened.
Incorrect, they do a final seat and passenger count verification. You wouldn’t be able to check your kid in scan his pass and use the extra seat, they will know.
As far as the question: When will egregious wrongful mistreatment of passengers stop? The answer is: When airlines are held liable for compensatory and, most importantly, punitive damages for this behavior.
@John How was this family mistreated?
@G-flier – that was my first thought as well! Certainly what I would’ve done.
Delta handled it very poorly. Here again, we have airline personnel that can’t do anything besides threaten passengers with calling the cops. If airline personnel have to resort to threats and intimidation in order to handle things, then they have a real problem.
Since theybknew their son wasn’t going to be flying on that day, they should have notified Delta that their other child was going to be using the seat purchased for the other son who took an earlierflight. Delta had no way of knowing that seat was going tube occupied by their baby. Delta should have handled this in an way without threatening the family.
Hmmmmmmm…
If I were overweight and bought two seats for my comfort (but was not at the level of weight to “have to”) are they gonna tell me to give the seat away to someone else?
@SavyTraveler The FA’s don’t go through with a manifest listing passenger info. All they know is that a pass was scanned for that seat and there is a passenger in it. Now they could conceivably be caught as lap kids need to be declared at ticket purchase and the FA’s might notice that there should be lap child in that row and there is none.
@Alex Please see my answer above. Comparing apples and oranges.
@Ann Cotter The family could not just call Delta and tell them. The ticket was not in the child’s name and Delta would not allow the child to use the ticket in someone else’s name. That is why tickets are attached to a name.
If I pay for a seat That seat should be mine during the flight whether it is occupied or not. Delta owes this family at least the price of a ticket.
Anyone think of this as a security issue? All passengers , including infants MUST have a boarding pass. To purchase a ticket for the son to fly on an earlier flight and not inform the airline of the change and thinking that it’s okay to use that seat for the infant- it doesn’t work like that. Maybe if the family had contacted the airline to handle this BEFORE they got on the flight , this situation would not have happened.
@Ronnie The seat does not belong to the family. It belongs to the son and he was a no show. Therefore, Delta placed another passenger in the seat. Simple.
@TNT Security issue? Please explain that one.
Airline travel has a very weird flexibility of allowing no shows and refunds.
It would make life much less complicated if airline tickets were sold as non-refundable but also allow people to buy as many seats as they want.
There would not be all this focus on overbooking to make seats don’t go empty. As in this scenario the seat is paid for whether it goes out empty or not.
The one problem is terrorism. Where people check in a bomb and don’t board. It makes it a little more difficult to verify that the number of passengers checked in match those boarded if people are allowed to buy and checkin for multiple flights. The best way to deal with this is have better luggage scanners to detect the bombs. After all making sure that passengers and luggage fly together doesn’t rule out terrorism completely since some terrorists are willing to be suicide bombers.
Airlines like Air New Zealand which allow you to buy an entire row of seats in economy are already doing this so its not impossible
If I bought the seat, I can fill it with my hat if I want. The problem, plain and simple, is for the airlines to STOP OVERBOOKING FLIGHTS!!!!!
So most people are saying, it was ok for Delta to overbook the flight?
Power hungry much lol never fails delta sucks. Sr. We are taking your money and get off are flight.
@Frank What does overbooking have to do with this story?
So, if the older child had flown with his ticket, the family would have flown illegally with a two year old on a parent’s lap? Am I missing something? I’m sure they were advised of lap children policy/laws if asked. Any thoughts?
According to this father’s logic, I should be able to give my unused seat to someone else. Why should it matter if I’m traveling or not or whether the substitute traveler is a relative or not?
@ John P. Sperstad That is correct: if you bought the seat, you can do with it as you please. The issue here is that the passenger that bought the seat didn’t show for the flight.
@Jon I am sure the child was already scheduled to fly as a lap child; otherwise the child would have already had a seat assignment and there would have been no story.
I do agree with the thoughts expressed in your second paragraph.
I really don’t understand what everyone is so upset about and I myself am a mom of young children. Sounds like this family paid for a ticket for their 18 year old the previous day and assumed his now-extra ticket the next day could just be claimed by their infant son. Why anyone would think that when a name is printed right in the ticket is beyond me.
For those who think they should have scanned the boarding pass at the gate and pretended their infant was their 18 year old, I don’t think Delta would have scanned the pass if it didn’t have the TSA signoff on the front, which wouldn’t have happened as the right passenger was not present (your bday is on the ticket).
Now if they had paid for a seat for their infant (like I did when I flew LAX to Maui) and that seat was taken, it would be a different story and I would understand the anger.
Family was wrong 100%.
@Tom – my point is that the child, at least according to the info in Gary’s blog post was 2 (not under 2).
Gary – why the misleading title and first paragraph? Strikes me as a yahoo headline not a headline/title (and first paragraph) from someone who understands better. This method of only explaining the real situation later and implying something else earlier is disingenuous and a disservice to your readers.
Selling something you do not own is a crime for the common citizen. Overbooking is selling something the airlines do not own ( non existing seats). Southwest airlines has stopped the practice.
I think the problem here is a lack of empathy on both sides, though I fault the airline staff more. For instance, if you know nothing about airline regulations, the family’s story makes perfect sense: we paid for the seat, we have a family member here who needs the seat, how dare the airline take that seat from us without a refund *and sell it to someone else? If I had ordered doughnuts from the doughnut shop and paid in advance, should it really matter if it was me, my husband or my best friend who goes to pick them up? If I send my husband to pick them up does the doughnut shop have the right to say, “No! Your name is not the name on this order,” take the box away from him after he’s already holding it, sell the box to someone else and then refuse to refund me? That’s just silly! Same with the seat: common sense says they paid for it, it’s theirs.
Of course, the airline crew has lots of rules and regulations that say the opposite. Those rules, as many people have explained, say that the family screwed up and deserves nothing. So the family was wrong.
Here’s why I blame the crew more than the family in this case, though. While the family of newbies may not know the airline rules, the crew certainly knows *both the airline rules *and should have enough common sense to see things through the family’s eyes. Instead of showing compassion and understanding, they acted like bureaucratic jailers in a prisoner/guard situation. It’s the old “I have power over you” trope playing out yet again with threats of cops. Airline staff should not act like prison guards with unruly inmates.
Airlines are primarily a service industry. Even if the customer is wrong, it is often worth the extra time/expense to make them feel valued and to give them a win situation. Especially in this social-media connected world, is it really worth it *not to try and understand things from the customer’s perspective?
FAA rules state a 2 year old should be in a car seat on a flight as it is safest for the child. It does not as attendant claimed prohibit it.
Wow, the family in this case – unbelievable. Crying wolf in a situation where they were wrong to take advantage of bad press at a time when people are hypersensitive to being booted off a flight. Absolute shame.
I don’t understand how airlines can get away with taking people’s money for a service and then don’t have the obligation to provide for that service. I am paying for a seat, a specific space on their aircraft. If I choose to use it for my hat, dog or child it is mine I paid for that space. If the parent called and said I would like to change the flight for my older son he would of been hit with $200 changing ticket fee plus additional cost of the difference in fare, then he would be charged a new ticket to buy the seat (space) “he already paid for” again for the younger son. It seems the airlines get every advantage but the flying public just has to pay it or shut up. Remember Airlines pay big bucks to lobby Congress for rules to protect their interest, not the consumer.
if they don’t compensate that family accordingly and fire the staff that did this to them, I will not be flying delta after this. small threat considering i only fly 6-7 times a year….but it’s the principle, if we all stood up like that they would quit treating people this way or go out of business.
Parents are wrong, the seat is owned by the passenger not who purchased the ticket. However, it is my understanding that children under 2 can fly in their own seat in a car seat. I have never heard that they cannot.
@gary come on, the headline is straight wrong – the 2 yo didn’t have a seat to give up! Why they didn’t check in the 18 yo and scan the boarding passes – makes no sense to me (uh, no-show -> reservation *poof*).
I mean, imagine a world where you can just give someone else your ticket. Oh wait, you can’t! Doesn’t matter if it is your wife or brother or child – PNR has “N” in it for NAME.
As the kids say, SMDH.
The issue is that ONLY 3 boarding passes were scanned. The airline saw that number 3 and realized there would be 1 empty seat because the 4th boarding pass was never scanned. Therefore they sold the unused seat to a standby passenger only to find a car seat in the unscanned seat.
When you purchase a ticket you must enter the name etc of the person who will be occupying that seat. If that passenger assignment changes, you need to contact the airline and you can (in most cases) change the passenger seat assignment for a fee.
If you want to purchase a seat in order to keep it empty you need to specify , at the time of booking, your name for both seats and indicate that you want both seats for yourself .
The bit about not being able to purchase a seat for a child under 2 in a car seat sounded a bit off the cuff, not sure if that’s a lie or not.
@Kim do you oppose fractional reserve banking as well? When you deposit money at the bank, it’s your money, but the bank only keeps a portion of it on hand and loans some of it out to other customers.
Minors never have ids checked…why not just use the boarding pass? It would seem the family was trying to get a free seat and somehow get that seat refunded. The family was definitely trying to get away with something.
And a red-eye is the last flight I’d ever want a lap child…
Thank you for the question. I have no issue with my deposit being used by the bank as a loan. In fact I prefer the bank use my money instead of a promissory note issued by the Fed that was not in circulation. We will not get into a discussion about money at this time.
My money exists and I have not deposited more than my account states.
Well I think there should be some flexibility in this situation, if the parents could have legally switch the name on the ticket legally say 24 hours of the flight there would not have been a problem. Once the ticket is paid for why not have a legal method of being able to switch the name within a set amount of time, this would allow the airlines and TSA to run the name on the no fly list.
Now if the FA actually told the family they are fly with the child on the lap by law that is incorrect you are not required to do so by law. If they are 2 or older you are required to get them a seat and pay for it. If they are 2 yrs old or younger you may hold them or purchase a ticket and use a car seat.
Now there are also provision by law where child about which seats they can or cannot sit in, read more here on Southwest website https://www.southwest.com/html/customer-service/family/baby-on-board-pol.html?clk=GFOOTER-CUSTOMER-INFANT
heres Delta webpage on this http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/special-travel-needs/children.html
But since they the 18 yr old was a no show then Delta had no way of knowing their intent and they are in the wrong here. They should be penalized for cost of holding up the flight.
Why can’t they simply switch the name of the ticket? Like on a train, bus, ticket for the baseball game, a reservation to a restaurant, a reservation for a hotel room, etc.
What’s squirrelly is the airline’s refusal to let a paid seat occupied by another family member. That should be outlawed.
What a terrible state of affairs do we find with airlines. Unbelievable. Thanks Washington.