The new American Airlines flight attendants contract that workers will be asked to vote on contains new language about the union helping the airline track down and discipline members who sell their seniority.
Flight attendants get to ‘bid’ on trips based on seniority, choosing their schedules which are most convenient to them and which take them to the best destinations. That’s a perk that has real value. Want to fly to Rome? You’d better be super-senior… or be willing to pay someone who is to trade their trip with you.
Cracking down on this is now in the tentative agreement that the union negotiated.
Last year American and the union came to an agreement outside contract negotiations over how to handle flight attendants who sell their seniority (a group known as ‘the cartel’) offering up their trips to more junior crew in exchange for cash ($200 on average) or other favors.
- American wanted sole discretion in determining who was engaging in this activity
- The union agreed to help put a stop to it as long as they got shared say in the standards that were used.
In fact it’s actually pretty obvious when this is happening when ultra junior cabin crew get to regularly pick up “Tel Aviv, Delhi, London Heathrow” and South America. But the union is effectively throwing these members under the bus. And that’s now in the tentative agreement that, if members vote yes, will become the contract.
The union hasn’t taken the traditional position that their members own their schedules and can do what they want with them. Interestingly, union reps themselves not only get more pay (115 hours of trip removal) than mere flight attendants but they can still pick up extra flying – which they can drop and give to friends through trip trades.
This isn’t the first time that the flight attendants union has been weak in defending members against discipline by the company. They went along with, and even encouraged, the return of ‘attendance points’ for using earned sick days which was a practice that was suspended during the pandemic.
Flight attendants calling out sick cause senior members of the union to have to work reserve, so helping the company discourage calling out sick benefits her members who prefer more fixed schedules.
Ultimately with assigning schedules based on seniority, employees are getting something of value – which may be valued more by someone else. Naturally a secondary market develops, and both parties benefit from the exchange.
The problems stem from inefficiently allocating what employees want most based on seniority, and then cowing to the envy of less senior flight attendants who feel like they’re being skipped over. But the company and union are fighting the symptoms of a broken duty assignment system which seems the least good approach here.
Geez. Now we know why the less senior flight attendants are always so impoverished!
Well, I wouldn’t be quick to say that trips to Tel Aviv and Delhi going junior are because of something nefarious… I know senior people who would pay others to take those trips from them because of the, correct or not, perception of difficulty of passengers. I know one 30-year AA F/A who worked with a 40-year purser to TLV who told me the 40-year purser sticks a tampon in her apron pocket so the Orthodox male passengers won’t talk to her.
I have found in a past life when negotiating with an airline union on the company side that one place there was alignment of both company and union was on stopping activities like selling trips to bypass the seniority list order. I used to have customer service agents who were senior and wanted mid-week days off (so they could travel – Tues/Wed are better to non-rev, but weekend days off go senior). Having off a Sat/Sun in my station took about 15 years, 20 if you were morning shift. They would do something like for $1000 bid Sat/Sun off then put in a standing shift swap for every single week with someone with less seniority who could only hold, say, PM shift off Tues/Wed. When they unionized, that stuff stopped ASAP at the urging of the union. The stop stewards/reps policed it pretty well. From their view “We fought for all these rights for seniority, don’t throw it away”
I never see junior crew on long haul Delta. An FA in D1 last trip said he was the junior in the forward Cabo with 41 years.
Wow. Since when is it the job of a union to protect their members no matter what they do. Sure, we all deserve a lawyer when accused of a crime, but criminals don’t deserve their own prosecutor arguing that crime is a whiteness construct and the law as passed by the legislature should be null and void. Oh, wait…
A good union is there to ensure fairness to everyone, junior and senior, not just it’s most senior members. Senior members abusing their seniority destroys the morale of the junior members – “it’s my turn” is no way to run a business, whether that is from union members or management. And a good union acts in partnership with the company so that everyone benefits – union members, managers, stockholders, and customers. The “us” vs. “them” mentality has destroyed many an organization and harmed the public. One only need to look to the teachers unions, where students are an afterthought and parents are the enemy. Why do you think people hate unions so much?
When a junior FA pays to trade up to a trip to say Rome, does AA pay the higher salary of the tenured FA or the lower salary of the junior FA? If AA pays the lower wage rate, I would think they would actually favor these trades as a cost saving measure.
It won’t WORK! Flight attendants will always know how to get around this! Good for them!
@David p: The airline pays the lower salary.
Gary normally complains that the union protects the senior flight attendants at the expense of more junior flight attendants.
This policy protects the middle of the pack who don’t have enough seniority to hold an FCO line of flying, but would if the dinosaurs weren’t grabbing those trips and selling them for a profit.
It should not be a bidding war. Fresh new faces on some long haul flights might be of benefit to the airline. Morale might just improve if everyone was given a chance to fly long distances.
I heard that since FAs aren’t paid for the 30-60 mins before and after each flight, they get paid off for an hour of work on an SF-LA flight despite working for nearly 3 hours. Compare that when SF-LHR flight where you get paid for 10 hours while working 12. This was requested by unions to punish junior FAs and reward seniority with more money for less work.
Hard to argue that unions actually care for all their members.
I truly don’t see the problem with this.
The trips belong to them. It is a benefit of their seniority. They can do what they want with them.
American needs to focus on running an airline.
Just as it happens in United Airlines..the Union (AFA) and the company (UAL- Management ) sleep together.- Nothing new!
@Martin: That is why boarding pay is important for the junior members. A higher percentage of their time is spent boarding or briefing or whatnot. It hasn’t really been a hot button issue because senior crew don’t care as much (generally). They’d rather have a higher hourly rate plus premiums like working international lead, widebody galley position, international per diem, etc. Of course the overall contract cost is the number looked at by the company in negotiation, so getting boarding pay means something else has to give to offset… maybe healthcare costs (which I heard have gone up in this AA T/A, which generally impacts older employees who following same logic are generally more senior with the company). Until Delta “spoiled” it for everyone by offering boarding pay, which they can do arbitrarily without a union, obviously AFA and APFA didn’t pay the issue more than lip service because senior F/As don’t care as much about it. One could really go into conspiracy theory and think that DL made the move with boarding pay not just to help combat its F/As unionizing but also to throw a grenade at its competitors who are less able to afford it but now it has become a hill the union will die on.
Paying for a trade seems like a good deal all around. Assuming either person can do the job, the airline also benefits by getting a more enthusiatic employee for the flight. The junior person gets to see a new destination and the senior person gets some money. As long as the seniority system won’t go away, what’s the downside to the airline?
One comments that it would.be “nice” to see some fresh ( junior) flight attendants on a long haul flight. Well ALL I have experienced is most of them sitting and on their phones. The service they offer is minimal and thier attitudes are usually rude. I will take the old “grannies” anytime
@Rachelle Brndstetter – Hear! Hear! There is an entire generation of younger FAs who simply refuse to work beyond the absolute barest minimum. They think that serving one tray and one beverage in domestic F on any flight over 2.5 hours in duration constitutes perfectly acceptable service.
Gary, your take on this is missing a glaring point. You mention the most senior and the most junior, but you’re ignoring the thousands (at AA) of middle seniority FAs whose seniority is violated by this happening. How? When a senior bids a trip and then sells or gives it to a junior,, that keeps FAs from getting (“holding”) trips that they otherwise would get. This violation of seniority has been condoned by the APFA for decades. They overlook it, including current APFA president Julie Hedrick, who herself had a “trip trade service” in SFO, where she made money coordinating the selling of trips. It’s the main reason I campaigned against her reelection. When AA tries to do something about it (testing the elimination of certain types of trades for one month only at one crew base) the APFA immediately stopped it. The union is picking and choosing when they protect seniority – they should do it always. This new component of the contract is at least a foot in the door of fixing the problem; wording can be tightened in future contracts. I will be retired before a real solution is implemented, but I have been instrumental in getting at least this done. All of us FAs deserve be treated fairly and equally.
Response to NedsKid. lol those are coveted trips. Those trips drop in ETB in minutes. I hold London and those are easy to drop. You must part of the cartel and you must be junior.
The FA’s are selling something that doesn’t belong to them.
@An Actual AA Flight Attendant: Well done to you. You’re stating it well. Thank you for campaigning against such behavior. A very good friend of mine has been with AA for awhile (US since 1999, furloughed at 9/11 and went elsewhere for a few years until recall). Even at that seniority she’s had trouble holding a regular line that works with childcare and health obligations to be based in her home city. Sometimes teeters back and forth between reserve, line, commuting because it’s a better schedule in the end, etc. You are right that just one or two seniority positions can make a difference. If someone senior wants to work short haul domestic (I have a good friend at DL since 1986 and she bids 717 by choice) then just do it and let someone else have the line who may not just want it, but needs the schedule.
Old news – been in effect for a decade
Is anyone paying taxes on these transactions?
That explains why we have almost senior citizens working on international flights. Ok, putting the age aside, often fly business to Europe and I find flight attendants to be tired, and sometimes rude. Of couse, why should they care if they are in a union. I find it embarrassing for American companies, not just AA.
FA spouse here. When I need my wife to drop a trip so we can do X together, she should be able to drop the trip without penalty and with ease. She’s perfectly willing and able to work trips 2-3 days after the trip she needs to drop. Sometimes nobody will pick up a trip unless a FA puts some $$ on top. AA created this issue, AA can fix it with fairness to all.
I believe the policies and practices of the APFA union at American Airlines should be transparent and equitable. It’s concerning that union staff get preferential treatment, such as working premium trips and getting removed from trips they don’t want while still being paid. Additionally, union staff members not being subject to drug testing is unacceptable. There should be a consistent drug testing policy for all employees, including union staff, to ensure accountability and safety.
Furthermore, the issue of trip trading and selling should be straightforward. If someone is willing to buy a trip, and someone else wants to sell it, there shouldn’t be any obstacles. The problem seems to be that the company doesn’t want to pay premium rates, preferring to pay lower rates instead. This lack of clarity and fairness needs to be addressed for the benefit of all employees.
F/A with another airline. At my airline this could cause termination. The IRS did a big audit a few years back in regards to this matter and NO the F/As don’t pay taxes on that money and that became a glaring issue for the IRS. They insisted my airline crack down hard on this behavior.
“I know one 30-year AA F/A who worked with a 40-year purser to TLV who told me the 40-year purser sticks a tampon in her apron pocket so the Orthodox male passengers won’t talk to her.”
What? I don’t understand what that does. Explain.
Normally the way crew drop trips, its actually the OTHER way.
FA/Pilots will OFFER $$$ to DROP trips, NOT pick them up. This was especially prevalent over the holidays, with some offering significant bumps to drop a 3 day or 4 day trip.
The problem is how the processes are now – there’s probably lots of Whatsapp & FB Chat groups with this, including message boards outside of the offiical channels.
@Joe Smith:
Basically, in some forms of Orthodox Judaism, women on their period are impure, and man cannot be served by them, accept items they have touched, etc.
That remark about the orthodox jew saying a woman unpure during her menstrual cycle is not true and not Jewish law. Its a personal belief among a few ultra religious jews making their own rules up. As a person of jewish faith and a former retired AA what that FA is doing is just plain ignorance. After as trip trades go it has been a big problem where senior FA’s have no intention of flying and at one time they could sell all their trips but still maintain seniority and benefits. It was causing those FA’s who want to fly cant hold those trips through bidding and increases those on reserve. Hopefully this new contratual change will help this problem. Until you actually fly and work for an airline you dont have a clue of what really goes on.
This is nothing New for a Major Airlines that is Called Most Profitable Carrier… it went on for years and still does …
@haolenate: Only dog trips. Long-haul international trips are coveted.
How else is AA supposed to award trip other than seniority? The union system is based on seniority. Gary, you’re just stirring the pot.
Selling ones senior trip, which one never intended to fly, is abrogation of seniority and should be a termination event.
Trip trading through a service to manage one’s schedule is normal, even though FAs could do it on their own through the tools provided for them via TTS, drop, etc. Now if a Trip trade service then sells a senior trip, who’s at fault? AA has pretty much shut down most trip trade services as it violates the policy of allowing someone other than the employee from signing in to their personal mode.
If APFA wants to represent ALL of its members, it will work with AA to stop the cartel.
@T you know nothing. Airlines have been Seniority driven since day one. Want that fresh face? Fly Domestic. International is earned and not given. Seniority must be protected at all costs.
We don’t care if someone occasionally has to pay for or sell a trip. The problem lies whe a Senor FA bids 110 hours, but plans on only working 40 hours. They sell or give their trips to Junior FA’S ( often the same Junior FA’s ). They pulled Senior trips out of inventory for the next Senior FAs that could hold them. If there is a consistent presence of this practice? They should be terminated. Period!
Isn’t anyone else concerned that someone who does not work at AA has access to details of a tentative agreement?
Imagine, if you will, Exec Plat upgrades were assignable. And at the point of upgrade a “cartel” was getting upgraded seat assignments. Then assigning them to friends. You of all people Gary would have an aneurysm right there in the Admirals Club. Security would have to be called. When you have a seniority based system that’s what it should be. If you have a merit based system that’s what it should be. At the end of the day these trips have value. And the flight attendants don’t own them the company does. If something happens on a flight they customer doesn’t go to the flight attendant, they go to the airline. And enough with the poor junior flight attendants. The work rules they exist under today are nothing like what senior flight attendants lived under. At 35 year flight attendant at AA still has approx 6500 flight attendants ahead of them. Getting first dibs on a small amount (approx 2% of the schedule) of high value “senior trips”. But as I began, think about your precious upgrades to SYD and how it could get taken away from you.
When a senior FA drops a route, it must be offered to the next senior and then the next.
Afterall, the se for FA “earned” a perk based on seniority/tenure. They did not earn a chance to earn cash on the side.
Is that not logical?
Remember that the union exists so that 51% of FAs who are senior can screw over the 49% of them who are junior.
The seniority cancer is awful, totally contrary to the American ideal of meritocracy. You end up with lazy FAs that destroy brand value who are paid over $100k (no college degree required) for half a month’s worth of work, while amazing ones are paid $22k and have to work every day of the week just because they’re “junior”. And, of course, it deprives the employee the liberty of switching jobs and having all of their skills recognized by the new employers. Horrendous.
Tel Aviv? I’d pay juniors to service those flights.
I take 4 SFO to PPT RTs a month with a 3 day layover in Moorea in one of those over water bungalows. With or without the plexiglass floor looking into the water. Please. I will pay for my own transportation from PPT to Moorea.
What hasn’t been mentioned is that some FA’s (all seniority levels) make considerably more (sometimes double) than others of the same seniority. They do this by picking up trips, both good and trash, to increase their pay. They, unlike the pilots, are not limited by the FAA rules that will not allow pilots to work more than 100 hours a month/1,000 hours per year. Flight Attendants can basically live on the job and at hotels . . . some do. I suspect many of them are junior or family single wage earners “making hay while the sun shines.”
BTW, I’d pay someone to pick up my BBB or DEL trips too, no offense I’ll Never Do It Again.
@ William A. I say this as a former Air Pacific pilot that lived in Nadi, forget Tahiti, go to Fiji! You will not only be more welcome but you will save a ton of cash.
This is only a small reason why I hate companies that cater to seniority people. It is similar to what happens with college professors. I had a college professor during my last year as an engineering student who would come to class falling down drunk. I mentioned this during my exit interview with the Assistant Dean of Engineering and he said, “That is still going on?” What it came down to was he had tenure and 42 medical patents so there was no way they were going to fire him. These flight attendants should be fired and the whole idea of seniority trashed. Flight attendants become lazy and rude to their customers knowing not a dang thing is going to happen. Of course this will NEVER happen and since people need to fly the airlines will always abuse the privilege of serving the public. This is why bulletin trains will never gain traction in the US. It would destroy short trips for the airlines.
“All of us FAs deserve be treated fairly and equally.”
“How else is AA supposed to award trip other than seniority?”
How about assigning staff based on merit/performance or customer feedback?
That would actually be fair to all staff and maybe service would improve, so passengers actually would enjoy flying AA…
They need to retire those people at a certain age. Would you say they have to protect seniors? who will help passengers in case of emergency. I have had the opportunity to fly many international flights… and every time it is more scary on my flight to South Africa, DL 15 hours flight, the FA in charge of the flight was about 100 years old, she sat down in front of first class and didn’t move again give orders from her seat. Just thinking if I shuck on peanut here, who will save me?
Last week to barcelona AA
The FA couldn’t even push the soft drink cart, one of the women had to help him. FA are there to help in case of emergency. They put passengers on danger, they need to retired or change position at a certain age.
Just like every other job .. and no it’s not discrimination it’s for the safety of the passengers
@World traveler:
Guess you are not aware that every single flight attendant must pass annual training each and every year (CQ), which includes safety issues, e.g., opening the exit doors and giving evacuation commands.
Every single year.
The amount of ignorance displayed here is simply astounding.
@1KBrad – my favorites are those poorly-informed/willfully ignorant keyboard warriors who espouse “lock them out.” They seem like a fun, smart bunch.
I’m a senior forty year f/a with at a non union airline. Selling trips and flight schedules should not be allowed, whether to other senior or more junior f/as. Seniority is earned and should not be for sale. Before working for a nonunion airline I was with a union Air carrier. There is good and bad at both.
Can I sell my complimentary upgrades on the “secondary market”?
How about my prime time JKF-LAX flight? Surely, some dude wants to fly more badly than i do? And if there’s a market for it, I should be able to use it, eh?
Only those in favor of this rigged answer need respond.