There’s a big debate going on about whether flight attendants are fairly paid, based on the idea that they are generally paid only for the time flying and not for the time spent boarding an aircraft.
The details vary by airline, whether there’s a fixed payment for time spent boarding and deplaning and a higher time-dependent wages for flights, or whether there’s no separate consideration for boarding time and only pay for actual flight time. Regardless, many flight attendants argue they’re ‘forced to work for free’ during boarding and a Change.org petition with over 100,000 signatures addressed to the United States seeks to change this.
This gets a lot of attention because boarding can be one of the most stressful and hard-working times during a flight compared to playing Candy Crush in the galley once airborne.
Lucky at One Mile at a Time says this is “reasonable” but something to be addressed through collective bargaining not a petition to the President.
I think, though, that the petition rests on a fairly fundamental misunderstanding of how mostly-union contracts are bargained on behalf of flight attendants,
- They’re paid an amount meant to cover their full work, they aren’t ‘working for free’ since they are paid for each trip.
- Do flight attendants want to clock in and clock out of each flight to the minute, separate from checking in to work the flight?
- When a flight is delayed, and the airline boards more quickly, should a flight attendant be paid less money because boarding took less time? What if they were on the aircraft the same time (‘at work’)?
Boarding and deplaning takes a certain amount of time on average. Flight attendants are paid based on the scheduled time of the flight, at a rate that is meant to incorporate these averages.
The notion that “flight attendants aren’t paid for boarding time” (or aren’t paid at their normal rate) is technically true, but mostly misleading. The amount of work time multiplied by their hourly rate is calculated on flight time, but the hourly rate is higher than it otherwise would be.
It would be possible to change how pay is calculated, pay a lower rate over more time, but that’s not clearly better for flight attendants. And airlines aren’t just going to pay flight attendants more money by changing the calculation, the cost of flight attendants is really what union contracts are bargaining over and unions aren’t just leaving money on the table.
There’s a total cost of a contract, and it’s parceled out across wages, benefits, per diem, hotel accommodation and ground transportation details, work rules and other bargained-for elements. If flight attendants truly valued higher total wages they would wind up accomplishing this by giving up quality of life elements of their contract.
Now, it’s simple to say “we want flight attendants to be paid more” and any explanation like this to sound callous. That can be your take, but wishing for higher real wages without a concomitant increase in productivity isn’t in the cards and union leaders themselves understand this even if they don’t articulate it honestly to rank-and-file (since that message wouldn’t help them get re-elected).
(HT: Paddle Your Own Kanoo)
The scheduled time of a flight is based on block-out to block-in, that Generally starts and ends when the door is closed/opened. They’re not paid for boarding any way you try and cut the proverbial cake… Also, the notion that hotel accommodations are tied to wages is simply ridiculous. That’s the cost of doing business for the airline. Nothing else. The only thing the contract does is prevent the airlines from placing crews in sleazy motels that aren’t fit for habitation.
I would respect a union if they just came out and said, “Hey, Bidenflation’s running at a published rate of 7%, so you know the real number is closer to 20%, so we want more money. That’s it. Just more money. We’ll strike if you don’t give us more money.”
But all of this misleading nonsense parroted by impotent social media iNfLuEnCeRs is just so tiresome.
Such chutzpah to moan about your boss paying you exactly how you insisted on being compensated. Any gripe they have is with their Union who negotiated the deal, not with the airlines who are complying with it.
Just flew almost coast-to-coast in business on AA and nearly the entire time the flight attendant was nowhere to be seen (she was busy reading a book and doing something on her phone). Would the union say she should be paid for that time, or would she only be paid if she had to fight off terrorists or save us if the plane fell from the sky?
Totally agree with the comments regarding collective bargaining . This is an issue that should be raised during negotiations. That being said, what happens when the flight attendant neglects their duties ? If pre-departure beverages in premium cabins are part of the service flow and the task is not performed , then what should happen ?
It’s a fair point that this issue lies within negotiations but they clearly need to restructure the way pay is reported. We have a minimum wage law in the United States and no one should be making $2/hr. Whether that pay is baked into the “flight time” hourly rate is indisputable, it is. But reporting pay of $2/hr and $28/hr while on board, is not going to fly (pun intended). So if the solution is lowering the overall rate of pay and counting boarding/deplaning, I’m for it, even if the net pay is the same.
However, I would propose the national minimum wage applying towards boarding/deplaning ($7.25) and keeping their current union wages for actual flight time. It’s a modest wage increase that will not affect pricing of tickets very much when split over x number of seats. It also makes hourly pay not incentivize time on the ground. Also, by enforcing the minimum wage laws, this will theoretically avoid a union contract negotiation and they will simply “upgrade” these hours to the minimum wage hourly rate (as enforced by the law).
I think we can all afford to pay flight attendants an extra $5-10 per flight as this would come out to and by going to minimum wage for these hours, it will solve for the optics of a wage that feels “illegal” at $2/hr.
Not to mention, a fairly active flight attendant will make a few thousand more dollars a year which can have a nice impact on their lives.
Airlines have continued to add more and more preflight duty requirements with no associated increase in compensation. It’s past time for them to be paid fairly. Also, for those recommending that they threaten a strike are simply clueless. To do that is illegal and isn’t the way to collectively bargain.
I agree with Andrew, what he says makes perfect sense – which is why it will never happen…
A contract is a contract, and if you didn’t negotiate it properly, that’s your problem, not the opposing party. And no amount of public opinion counts here.
Wasn’t there some sort of union contract involving an airline a few years ago where the union tried to demand that workers be paid from the time they entered the parking lot until they drove off the parking lot? Nice try, but that didn’t fly either.
And FWIW, I’m sure the union supported Biden. Now that they got their wish, plus inflation, and they didn’t negotiate inflation escalator clauses, that’s somehow the airline’s fault? There are all sorts of bad labor practices regarding management and non-union labor, but if a union is in place, you’ve got no one to blame but union management, not employer management.
It’s fascinating that the union sees this as a pay and working conditions issue. That’s because the flight attendants view their role primarily from the “safety” perspective. Perhaps, but when an FA accepts a wage, then most people think that FA is agreeing that the job compensates them at least somewhat fairly (this is the “we have a contract” argument). Given that airlines employ thousands of flight attendants and most show up to work, it stands to reason that the compensation can’t be atrocious (or employees would leave in an economy with a 4% unemployment rate).
Second, the union chooses to set working conditions in which the most senior (almost by definition the “oldest”) FA’s get to choose their working times / routes first, and that the junior staff get the more challenging trips (more take-offs, landings, and thus more boarding/de-planing). The union’s whole approach is “the industry worked to a person’s disadvantage when they were young, so now that they are older, the industry should still work to the younger person’s disadvantage.” For the newer employees – and there are a massive number of newer FAs in recent years – that’s a very anti-worker approach that the union is taking. The union’s reaction is to rally members to appeal to the President (who the unions love dearly) to “put pressure on” the companies to act. In other words, the union does not want to change its practices; it wants to have the politicians blame the company for the union not negotiating on behalf of its younger members.
If the union wants to have FA’s paid more, here’s an idea (and my guess is most employees do not care why they are paid more – they just want the money). Why not have customer service surveys done for each flight? My bet is that happy customers will gladly fork over $1 more on average. Happy, wealthier people will drop $5 easy, and if it can somehow be built into the ultimate receipt submitted to their reimbursement account, now we are rolling. At 100 people per plane, that’s $25 per FA for good service with a 4 person crew. 3 hour flight, that’s $5/hour more after taxes. The good FA’s will get that every flight, just like a good service person in any industry. Doormen and people who park cars KNOW this is true.
But, the union will not do that because they are afraid too many members will be embarrassed that they stink at the customer-facing side of their jobs, and they are worried that the customers will tell them as much.
So years ago I read that FAs were not paid until the door closed prior to taxi. I’ve always thought that despicable. If that’s not true, then it’s just a lie. How can you take a flat payment for a trip and twist into ‘no pay for boarding’? You check in for your flight, walk through the airport and board the plane. You prep the plane, you greet your pax. Your compensation is based on the job itself, you’re being well compensated; a ‘flight’ has many components. Out of the thousands of flights I’ve taken over the years, the FA up front has never been ‘too busy’. The conscientious ones work hard to take care of their pax. But they’re not ‘overworked’. They have plenty of time to congregate in the galley for loud conversations. So how did this ‘work for free during boarding’ BS start?
If this change were implemented, the hourly pay rate for flight hours would surely lower. But while the total average pay might stay about the same, the distribution would change. Senior FAs flying long hauls might have only a single boarding for a 12 hour flight. But a junior FA flying back and forth between DFW and Houston might have have to work a dozen boardings for those same flight hours.
Which explains how we got here, and why this push for change is coming from a grass roots petition and not a union negotiation demand. The current system benefits the senior FAs and most hurts the junior ones. And the senior FAs control the unions.
When these labor contracts were put in place the average load factor was 70% and passengers had limited carry on luggage (before bag fees) and boarding would take 15-20 minutes. Additionally most airlines added seats (B737 went from 150 to 172 on AA). Now it can take 30-40 minutes to complete boarding. I’m sure this will be discussed on future contracts.
Joe T,
your statement isn’t accurate. Every unionized flight attendant contract has been renegotiated multiple times since the stats you cite were valid. The flight attendant unions could renegotiate the pay structure if they wanted to but are asking legislators to do what they have failed to do at the collective bargaining table.
And the petition is not even accurate, many (if not most) flight attendants and pilots are paid for time away from their base and there is also holding pay for delays that exceed a certain time. if a crew member is being paid time away from base pay, then they are being paid for flights that are boarded EXCEPT at their home base – which is less than half of the flights they work, and probably a whole lot less.
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I can’t believe someone started a change.org petition because they voluntarily took a job and then decided they don’t like the terms of the CBA that governs it. Actually, yes I can. This is the world we live in today – someone else is the root cause of my problems.
GregsDC – you hit the nail on the head. Too many ignorant whiners fueled by liberalism.
$3:50 per diem, check in until
check out. $23 per flight hr.
24 hr flying time at $23 equals $552.00 plus $3:50 per hr times 72 hrs ( 3 day trip and 24 hrs flying pay) equals $804.00 before taxes for three days work. Hotel included. Per diem is paid continuously even when not on board the aircraft.
Conundrum!
For greater clarity, per diem is paid hourly from time you check in for your trip until your trip ends and you are released from duty. Even while you are sleeping, eating and whatever else FA do on their layovers and sit times.
Wow, I thought that the comments would be rife with political nutbags showing off their extremist plumage. While the foil hat crowd has made an appearance there are a number of well-considered ideas and viewpoints, some quite practical. @ PHLPHLYER, @Andrew, and @Joe T all have really good and interesting takes on things, among others.
@Christian limp wrists had to pop into the thread and flex his gums.
It appears many aren’t aware of what the “flight pay” actually is.
Top hourly base pay at AA, and that is well over half the working fight attendants, is $68.25 an hour.
If they are only paid when flying how do they “time out” from a delay when they are on the ground??
@JOJO: Pay starts when the 1L door is closed and the #1 engine is started. Once that occurs, they continue to get paid until the trip ends, so if they return to the gate due to a delay, they continue to get paid.
incorrect 1K,
flight attendants ARE paid a per diem or time away from base pay from the moment the first flight starts.
and, you do realize that the AVERAGE flight attendant salary with benefits according to data provided by AA, DL UA and WN to the DOT shows that airlines for those 4 airlines ON AVERAGE get a compensation package that is worth more than $80,000/year.
Nobody is working for free.
and for those that can’t grasp it, senior flight attendants usually bid long flights because they get more pay for each day’s work.
Some of you are certain to tell us hat whole system is patently unfair – even though airlines created it – just like they created a system that pays crew members for flight hours.
“flight attendants ARE paid a per diem or time away from base pay from the moment the first flight starts.”
It’s a couple of bucks an hour and is separate from flight pay.
There is also speaker pay, international pay, lead pay, etc.
@Flying.While.High.Again – Your word salad sentence is in English but the meaning is unclear. Are You calling David Miller limp wrists or yourself? I’m trying to figure if you’re owning up to the foil hat membership. If so, good on you. Or maybe you had just smoked some top notch ganja and the words sort of seemed to make sense at the time.
1KBrad,
thank you for admitting that FAs aren’t working for free at any time.
How about just ditch the union? The average fa making 30k$ a year just got an instant raise of nearly $1000
@Time Dunn:
They are not paid for check-in, boarding, or ground delays, but they make an inflated amount for flight hours.
But the structure does not pay them for check-in, boarding, or ground delays.
Are you a traveler who thinks you know this job simply because you fly on airplanes frequently? Go f@ck yourself with this argument that flight attendants shouldn’t get paid more. Your last paragraph sounds like you’re saying they should only get paid more if they work more productive. How about pilots? Their work is exactly the same year in, year out. They aren’t more productive. Yet their wages AND intangible benefits increase exponentially each year. Why should flight attendants be treated as “less than”?
A pilot might have one real scary airplane emergency in their entire career, one that truly “saved lives.” Flight attendants regularly deal with heart attacks, brawls, medical emergencies, evacuations and more on the regular. The entire boarding process is safety related in fact.
Stay in your lane as a traveler and sit your a&& down talking about how and what others should be paid or maybe we’ll come for you. I mean really, I’m sure you’re paid more than a flight attendant to write a bunch of stupid articles about sitting on an airplane while you look down on the work of those who serve you.
You’re disgusting!
Sweet baby Jeesas…
Is Gary high on something?
His last paragraph completely destroyed his entire article.
I really thought this was a serious article about flight attendants and even pilots working off clock (for free) but I was wrong.
Gary, please stick with the useless points and travel articles because you know absolutely nothing about what these hard workers have to go through to earn their paychecks.
I was in the regionals for many years and even though when I’d tell people I made 50 bucks an hour people’s reaction was like “Wow! You’re making thousands a year!” I was like… Uh – No. I only work on the clock from 19 to 23 hours a week. Cause that’s what my trips paid on average for a 4 day trip. It’s simply ridiculously low wages for the exact same work performed by legacy mainline or even cargo pilots.
I left the airlines altogether and went back to corporate. Trading 6 for 1/2 a dozen.
Overall unprofessional behavior from highly experienced 60+ year old captains that probably shouldn’t be flying (not too sharp), unprofessional management / office employees (e.g. people don’t reply email inquiries or address issues brought up in a reasonable conclusive and timely manner), and to make matters worse, pilots get paid a flat daily rate which, when you get hired sounds like a great deal, however you get worked HARD (7 days here you can easily fly 47 block hours), a lot 4 to 5 legs per day for up to 13 days straight and you receive absolutely nothing extra in pay unless you happen to work over 12 hours in a day. All of this for a $3k paycheck net every two weeks…?! With the inflation rate of 7% like we have right now? No, thank you.
Needless to say, I’m looking for a new job.
So please Gary… Stick to your other aviation related articles.
I have personally never seen a FA perform any duty that would align with making 80-120k. As others have mentioned, they are paid a salary to perform a function. Don’t like it? Find another job. Maybe they should start getting paid when they wake up in the morning. Why stop there, just pay them around the clock.
For 99.999999% of their career, they serve drinks and hawk credit cards. Sure they’ll harp on this or that. Being certified in BLS. Which they might use…..never. It’s quite strange they are never too busy too pass out credit card applications. Good FAs are becoming unicorns.
Because the reality is FAs are “less than”. You can pick up any Karen off the street, which is usually the case, to become one.
It requires no skill and your skills are transferable to where? Bartending? Brawling? AA work?
A pilot is a skilled and trained professional. Don’t like it? Go to pilot school.
As some noted, the flight attendant pay is calculated to encompass all they do from sign-in to release and that includes the time they are required to report to the gate, boarding, flight time, deplaning to release. Flight attendants may want to step back and consider if they truly want to have their pay calculated on actual working periods because there is an enormous amount of sitting around and even sleeping during flights.
They need to look at their overall pay and benefits package, not just the 30-50 minute boarding process. It’s a very nice job compared to someone who actually has an eight-hour shift and must physically or mentally work during those eight hours. And of course there is the scheduling flexibility, several days off, nice hotels, travel. Etc. to consider.
We should maybe focus on flight attendants that don’t work during the flight also and yet get paid….
Anyone who flys a US carrier in premium service knows what i mean.
As a retired f/a I have seen how much the unions have done to make working conditions safe. I started working 20-24 hour duty periods with 12-16 hours of flight, sitting in a side facing jump seat with only a lap strap, no guaranteed rest period and always on reserve until assigned a trip. In negotiations there is a staff representative (usually a former f/a) and a committee made up of active f/as. This is after a survey is done. My last contract allowed for 30 min.(45 min. International) boarding time. If there were ground delays, holding pay kicked in after an hour. When inflight service was decreased greatly, I didn’t see anyone suggesting a give back on flight pay. Plus per diem is check in to check out and tax free. If it is not all spent on meals, it is supposed to be added to your income, but who does? Seniority is the name of the game…………you earned it.
I just had a pleasant trip on AA this weekend. Flight attendants were visible and friendly. I need help on and off the plane and they were more than willing to help me.
The flight was uneventful, no one was acting like a monkey’s butt, no special demands. Pleasant quiet experience.
This is what matters to me…….How they are paid and how they negotiate their compensation is not my issue.
Mr. Leff, WE NEED TO TALK.