While Hyatt lets their status members confirm upgrades at the time of booking, into suites, and for up to a week at a time; IHG lets members staying at least 20 nights choose a benefit of upgrading into suites two weeks prior to a stay; and Marriott at least promises upgrades to available standard suites starting 5 days in advance of a stay or at check-in; Hilton Honors promises no such thing.
Each Hilton hotel decides what constitutes an upgrade. If a given Hilton has a suite available, and chooses not to give it to a Diamond member, they haven’t broken any rule or promise of the Honors program. They do perform upgrades in advance but that might be to a room with a better view, or a higher floor, or even one indistinguishable from the one that the customer reserved in the first place.
But did you know that Hilton specifically says that 44% of its brands do not have to upgrade elite members at all?
According to the program’s terms, Hilton doesn’t even offer complimentary upgrades at nearly half (8 out of 18) of their brands.
The following brands do not offer complimentary upgrades: Embassy Suites™, Hilton Garden Inn®, Hampton by Hilton™, Tru by Hilton™, Homewood Suites by Hilton®, Home2 Suites by Hilton®, Hilton Grand Vacations®, and Motto by Hilton®
Hilton sells more upgrades to elite members instead of honoring the best available room complimentary. By definition if these rooms are being sold, they’re available. And this applies even to brands that are supposed to offer upgrades.
Last fall Hilton told owners that advance complimentary upgrades would begin at Hilton Garden Inn properties. I’ve heard from readers about being charged for upgrades there, and the terms and conditions haven’t changed to reflect complimentary upgrades at the brand. Sad.
@Chris W sez, likely with a straight face:
Such gymnastics work only with those who have drunk too much kool-aid because the statement is internally inconsistent: Nothing can be guaranteed if it depends or is contingent on something else.
Upgrades depend on availability, which is itself at the discretion of individual properties, and that is true in every loyalty program that offers upgrades. In fact, the only program that has come out and “guaranteed” room upgrades, which hotels cannot opt out of offering is…. Hilton Honors!
See? The source for above is Hilton Honors, as published on this very site. Where is the source for your claim?
“Why would Embassy Suites be expected to offer any kind of upgrade when complimentary upgrades in every hotel loyalty program are limited to standard suite, and a standard suite is the lowest category room that one can book at ES?”
This is an interesting question to answer!
I mentioned in a different comment above that I once stayed at an Embassy Suites as a diamond and was upgraded to a “conference suite,” a suite with a larger living room with a table with seating for six. Other possibilities would be high floor/view, corner location, etc., which are sometimes marketed as premium room types in separate categories.
This gets at another interesting question about the definition of “standard suite” as compared to the standard offering at a given hotel. If a hotel’s standard offering *is* a one-bedroom suite, which would be considered a “standard suite” at other hotels, then what is the equivalent of a “standard suite” at that hotel? It should be a similar increase in value as going from a normal standard room to a normal standard suite.
One Hyatt I’ve stayed at has an answer to this question: the Hyatt Regency Suites Atlanta Northwest, an all-suite full-service property. Since a 1-BR suite is their “standard room,” then for award/upgrade purposes, their “standard suite” is actually the Regency Suite, a 950-square-foot, 1.5-bath suite with a wet bar and huge living room that could easily be used for meetings, etc. (There’s even a desktop computer and printer in the bedroom!)
Now, I wouldn’t expect the average Embassy Suites to have an offering that nice. But the point is, a diamond member staying at an Embassy Suites should be able to expect an upgrade to the *best available* suite at time of check-in, up to…well, something like that Regency Suite. Something simple like a conference suite or a high-floor city-view corner suite should be no problem!
(Will answer your next post in a follow-up.)
@ Chris W. –
“I forget where I saw it, but I believe there was an internal Hilton communication a while back that stated that 2 pm was the ‘soft’ late checkout time they’re supposed to accommodate for diamonds if available”
100% fake news. No such communication exists.
Late checkout is 100% at the discretion of the property to do with as they see fit daily.
Each desk agent/supervisor/manager/etc. has their own metric/LSOP/feeling of the day which could be anything from every request being approved to denying every request regardless of status level which you can do, since there is no guaranteed late checkout benefit with HH.
(I hope my previous reply about the Embassy Suites question went through, although I’m not seeing it… I’ll continue as though it did, though.)
“the statement is internally inconsistent: Nothing can be guaranteed if it depends or is contingent on something else.”
DCS, I’m genuinely not sure what you mean. A statement like “if x, then y is guaranteed” is not internally inconsistent at all. And availability can be confirmed by the guest (or anyone else) by using the website or app and searching for available rooms for the relevant dates. If I’m checking in August 1st for one night, for example, then when I arrive at the hotel (before going in), I get out the app and search for rooms at this hotel, checking in August 1st and out on August 2nd. If I see a standard suite available, then I know I’m entitled (as much as I hate that word) to be upgraded to it. If the desk tells me “sorry, nothing’s available,” I show them the app and ask them (politely) why the app is showing availability. *Occasionally* there are discrepancies between what’s being sold online and what the hotel actually has available, but usually they’ll agree that whoops, there is indeed a standard suite available, we’ll go ahead and upgrade you. This isn’t “at the discretion of individual properties”; it’s a published benefit. Hyatt even explicitly writes the phrase “This is a standard suite” in the description of (most) standard suites online, so you *know* you’re entitled to an upgrade to it as long as it’s available at checkin.
Further, you later quote Hilton, which include this: “Gold, Diamond and Lifetime Diamond members are eligible to receive a guaranteed room upgrade 72 hours prior to their arrival based on hotel availability.” Note that this sentence includes both “guaranteed” AND “based on hotel availability.” So if my statement is internally inconsistent, Hilton’s necessarily is, too. (Of course, neither one actually is.)
Whoops, I wanted to add, regarding that quote, “Nothing can be guaranteed if it depends or is contingent on something else”:
Earlier, you (DCS) said: “For one who anointed himself “thought leader in travel” to actually believe and keep claiming that there is a hotel loyalty program out there that “guarantees” suite upgrades about which individual properties have no say is of such utter naiveté it gives travel blogging a bad name.”
If that’s the definition of “guarantee” you’re going with – i.e. not subject to availability, but that an elite member would somehow be guaranteed a suite every time – then I don’t think Gary (or anyone else) has ever made that claim? I mean, it would be preposterous. If a hotel has 5 suites and 10 top-tier elite members checking in, obviously at least 5 of those elite members aren’t getting suites. The “guarantee” has only ever been that IF a standard suite is available at check-in (as one can verify through the app or website), then a Globalist (Hyatt) or Platinum or higher (Marriott) is guaranteed an upgrade to it – or otherwise, to the next-best room available at check-in. Hilton offers no such equivalent benefit – just that a Diamond “may” be upgraded to a suite, not that a hotel *must* upgrade them if such a suite is available.
Sorry, @Chris W, but that’s just gobbledygook. *Best available* suite at check-in at ES could go as high as a “presidential suite” and no program offers such largess. Hotels decide what is a standard suite — something that people who wish to claim WoH’s supremacy refer to, hilariously, as “properties playing game with award availability”, but every program’s T&C say the same thing: availability is at the sole discretion of individual properties; they are allowed to play games.
Philosophy 101: Look up necessary vs. contingent truths. The fact that there must be availability (a contingency), which hotels control, automatically contradicts the claim of “guarantee.”
Hilton’s statement is also internally inconsistent with respect to suite upgrades, but less so with respect upgrades to better non-suite rooms because those generally have higher availability.
Gotta go.
I can confirm that HGI has changed its policy, so as a Diamond I now have the privilege of paying for an upgrade when checking in and selecting my room on the app. I am so hhonored. LOL.
@Chris W – Gary makes stuff up. He has no evidence that Hilton is the only program that does not promise upgrades. He simply interpreted the various T&Cs year ago to suit his biased view of the programs and it’s as if the world has stood still for some 20years. Hilton’s new airline cabin upgrades-like global automated room upgrades or HH LT Diamond as the program’s now de facto top elite status threaten his carefully crafted biases, so he simply ignores those developments in favor recycling his decades-old biases.
He, more than anyone else, pushed the notion that SPG (R.I.P) “guaranteed” its top elites suite upgrades, completely ignoring statements in the program’s T&C that all upgrades were subject to availability and at the discretion of individual properties. When suite upgrades did not materialize as Gary had let everyone to believe, infuriated kool-aid drinkers hit the airwaves to denounce SPG’s duplicity for correctly interpreting its own T&C on suite upgrades! Here are some of my favorite posts over the years (cut & paste the titles to find the original posts if they still exist):
2012 — I am Sick of Arguing for Starwood Upgrades. (travelcodex)
2013 — Platinum SPG, best room upgrade: please change the language. (FlyerTalk)
2014 — Starwood Platinum Suite Upgrades: Why Does It Have To Be A Fight? (OMAAT)
2015 — Destroying Loyalty: Starwood’s Lies & Expectation Management.
See? SPG never guaranteed suite upgrades any more than other programs, as claimed by the “thought leader”!
It’s along the same vein that Gary’s recycled claim that “Hilton makes no promises about suite upgrades” must be understood because, if you go to the program’s synopsis of Diamond benefits, this is what it says:
“If we have a better room available, it’s yours – up to a 1-bedroom suite“
And Marriott’s so-called “promise” that Gary touts?
“We’ll do our best to upgrade your room (including Select Suites), based on availability upon arrival. Upgrades are subject to availability identified by each hotel and limited to your personal guest room.”
According to Gary, Marriott promises suite upgrades, but Hilton does not. See my point?
G’day!
> “If we have a better room available, it’s yours – up to a 1-bedroom suite”
Interesting – this is the first I’ve seen of any wording like this. Just went to the Hilton site and confirmed; it does indeed say that. (Not sure if links are allowed, but for others reading: go to the member benefits page and click on the “Diamond” tab underneath the chart.)
Unfortunately, this is still at odds with the actual terms and conditions of the program: “Upgrades for Diamond Hilton Honors Members may include upgrades up to “junior”, “standard” or “one-bedroom” suites. Upgrades exclude executive suites, villas and specialty accommodations/floors/towers … subject to the discretion of the hotel.”
Note the wording: “May include.” Not “must include, if available” or anything equivalent.
When there’s a conflict between what it says on Hilton’s site (essentially a marketing campaign) and the actual T&C, I believe the T&C would win out; the hotel could say they’re not required to honor what Hilton advertises on their site if it’s not in the T&C.
If this is Hilton’s real intention, they should update the T&C to match this marketing promise.
Whereas Hyatt actually spells theirs out very clearly, with no room for hotels to weasel out: “Globalists will receive the best room available at the time of check-in at Hyatt hotels and resorts, including Standard Suites and rooms with Club lounge-access.”
And Marriott says: “Platinum Elite Members and above receive a complimentary upgrade to the best available room, subject to availability on the day of arrival, for the entire length of stay. Complimentary upgrade includes suites, rooms with desirable views, rooms on high floors, corner rooms, rooms with special amenities or rooms on Executive Floors. At The Ritz-Carlton, suites are only included for Titanium Elite and Ambassador Elite Members and rooms with direct Club access are excluded.”
(Interestingly, Marriott doesn’t even say “standard suites” or “select suites” – just “suites” in general – though it also doesn’t specify “ALL suites,” so I suppose it’s implied that it’s only standard ones.)
So, based explicitly on the terms and conditions, I would say Gary’s interpretation is 100% correct: yes, Hyatt and Marriott promise suite upgrades, while Hilton merely says you “may” get one – no promise.
Now, I was in the middle of typing another reply to your previous comment, which I suppose I’ll paste here because it’s still relevant:
—
DCS, your quote of my earlier reply literally cuts me off mid-sentence and changes the meaning completely; I can’t possibly think you’re arguing in good faith when you pull something like that! My actual quote is:
“a diamond member staying at an Embassy Suites should be able to expect an upgrade to the *best available* suite at time of check-in, up to…well, something like that Regency Suite.”
“Up to…something like that Regency Suite” literally means NOT a presidential suite or other ‘premium’ suite that would be excluded from other programs’ terms, e.g. Hyatt.
You also cut me off mid-explanation in your next quote of me. I’ll repeat: “A statement like ‘if x, then y is guaranteed’ is not internally inconsistent at all.”
Yes, there must be availability, which I suppose hotels technically “control” to *some* degree. But are you really suggesting that a hotel might take a standard suite (that they might otherwise sell) out of inventory just to avoid having to upgrade an elite guest? That doesn’t seem to benefit the hotel at all. The truth is, as I said multiple times, availability can be checked BY the guest (or anyone else) on the app/website at any time – and if a standard suite is available at check-in, then the elite guest is “guaranteed” (or “entitled” or whatever other word you wish to use instead) to an upgrade to that suite with Marriott or Hyatt, but not with Hilton. Why is that point so hard for you to concede? If your only gripe is the word “guarantee(d)” instead of a synonym, then feel free to use a synonym.
Re: the “playing games” thing… Yes, when a hotel violates the spirit of the rules (even if they’re technically not violating them by the letter), that counts as “playing games.” If a hotel has 50 basic one-bedroom suites, but designates only 5 of them as “standard” and the rest as “premium” because they’re on higher floors, or they have a more desirable view, or whatever other excuse – despite them not being physically larger or nicer in any material way – then they’re playing games. It would be nice if programs would have more specific language that prevents those games, e.g. a certain percentage of their suites (50% or more?) must be designated standard unless they’re truly exceptional, you can’t call a standard-sized 1-BR suite “premium” just because of the floor/view, etc. I haven’t generally run into this problem in the wild, however.
Forgive the very long reply above, but at times like these, I’m reminded of the so-called “bullsh*t asymmetry principle,” a.k.a. Brandolini’s law:
“The amount of energy needed to refute bullsh*t is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.”
Gary Leff says:
” you claim ‘factually incorrect’ but never cite a single way in which this is incorrect.”
What utter BS Gary.
My post quotes your article exactly and then presents you with the counter evidence.
You claim that Hilton “refuses to upgrade elite members….” is absolute drivel.
Duck and weave all you want – your credibility is shot.
“You had a good stay at a property that isn’t on the excluded list.”
More BS. The property was part of the one of the very brands on the very list you cited to “calculate” your 44%.
“That does nothing whatsoever to refute what’s written here.”
It exactly refutes what you wrote, Gary. You seem to have serious psychological barriers to accepting evidence which counters your position. You have become so attached to certain myths about certain FF mattes that you are unable to evolve your position, let alone correct the record.
“And Hilton status is easy? yeah. It’s also not worth very much, absolutely in the U.S., though it’s easiest to get in the U.S.”
More self deluded BS.
I’ve had HH Diamond for many years courtesy of a non US credit card. This year (absent that card) Diamond renewed for one stay (an offer internationally available according to reports on other blogs).
I’ve received many thousands of USDs worth of elite benefits, both globally and IN THE USA (lately at LXR Santa Monica)!!!
Earn and burn for HH is no weaker or stronger than for other hotel loyalty programs. They are examples of parallel evolution business wise. As has been repeatedly explained to you despite your ongoing denialism, the 5th night benefit alone offers a substantially valuable benefit lacking in Hyatt.
You just absolutely and utterly refuse to accept the evidence for such, which has been repeatedly posted in comments on your blog.
“And the claim here – that 44% of brands are excluded from the upgrade benefit”
Read your own words, Gary. You claim that Hilton REFUSES TO UPGRADE ELITE MEMBERS (at certain brands).
It isn’t true. I’ve given you the evidence that you’re spouting BS.
“– is straight from the program’s terms and conditions”
Spun in the anti-HH Gary Leff self-deluded view which refuses to accept the real world evidence of readers herein.
The SAD thing is that your are misinforming your readers (arguably treating them as fools) and misrepresenting various travel supplier(s), which may or may not (I’m no lawyer) incur legal risk.
How can you possibly lay claim to be a “foremost expert in the field” when you publish such trash?
@ Chris W
Gary Leff’s leader “Hilton Refuses To Upgrade Elite Members At 44% Of Its Brands” it quite simply untrue.
I was upgraded when staying in one of those very brands just a few weeks ago on my most recent RTW trip. Real world experience shatters his strident claim.
Gary even refuses to accept such evidence when presented, lamely responding with the false claim that the hotel which upgraded me as HH Diamond does not belong on his quoted list of brands who refuse upgrades to elites. Spoiler alert – it does. He’s wrong and won’t admit it. He has to trash the evidence to secure his erroneous position.
Gary also belittles my evidence by suggesting that it was just a matter of luck.
The fundamental premise of the article is fundamentally misleading for the reasons already articulated by @ DCS.
Given your (welcome) interest in the topic and analytic approach (also most welcome), you might like to consider:
Gary’s has a track record of interpreting T&Cs with a bias to support his perceptions and prejudices – this is perennially the case when it comes to characterising Hilton as the worst major hotel chain loyalty program and Hyatt the best, but also evidenced in other matters (such as a refusal to accept the caveats on a UA status challenge as applied to his economy flight on VA- see recent review of his SYD-CNS flight).
Gary has a track record of ignoring key benefits of Hilton such as the fifth night free (Hyatt doesn’t have anything like it): I have asked him in a previous post if he has taken such benefit into account in his Hilton point valuations and associated estimates of net returns and his has not responded – the problem is that, if he hasn’t ,his own math puts Hilton has a more valuable program than Hyatt (!!!) on the earn and burn using his post valuations. He’ll undoubtedly continue to avoid that topic because it erodes his erroneous narrative – Hyatt great: Hilton bad.
Gary also has a track record of making the dubious claim that Hyatt points are more valuable than Hilton points. Hint – they’re not. He conveniently ignores the earn rate and only focuses on the burn rate.
Gary also conveniently ignores the effort required to attain elite status in different programs, thereby refusing to make sensible comparisons. Really – if you have HH Diamond for one credit card rather than dozens of nights of over USD100,000 credit card spend (e.g. Hyatt) your actual and sense of investment is surely very different when it comes to having a wobbler about whether you got this of that sort of suite upgrade. I made HH Diamond on a one-night USd150 stay this year and have lately enjoying USD1000s of cash value from that status in one 5-night stay.
Crucially, anyone can spin and bicker about the T&Cs as much as they like. Hotels are still going to upgrade based on how they regard their own availability (as @ DCS proposes). With that in mind, surely real life experience of elite members comes into play? Surely we ‘re better to base our travel decisions on actual real world data than waste our time on petty discussion about the minutiae of T&C clauses?!
And wouldn’t it be more relevant for all of us trying to optimise our travel experience to have a far more adult and relevant debate than tiresome articles bogged down in false premise?
Look, perhaps @ Desperado has made the most informative post on his article. In that sprit, surely we should put our focus on he strengths of each program rather than get totally mired in the presumption that here is something to be gained by ranking these hotel loyalty programs?
Hilton has its strengths, even if Gary Leff resolutely refuses to accept any of them. But so does Hyatt, and so does Marriott Bonvoy, and so does IHG and so do others (less mentioned).
Trashing one program to grandstand another is just so fffcking dumb.
Where’s the insight, advice on mixed strategy, discussion on how we can play to strengths of all of them. Math alert – the core hamster wheel for all of them is set to similar economics (broadly similar net returns), so we need to focus on the strengths to jump out of the gravity of the earn / burn bell curve.
Sadly, we get none of that (arguably more relevant interesting perspective from this particular blog. Misinformation and highly partisan positions ain’t gonna help.
Your thoughts always welcome….;)
In his response to my earlier comment Gary makes a wild allegation that HH Diamond is of little value. Reality check – that ain’t my personal experience.
You’re not in touch with reality if you’re chasing Hilton status. In fact I feel bad for you for drinking the kool-aid. Re-evaluate your life. Worst program out of the big 3. Kinda like delta enthusiasts, smh.
@platy – you said your upgrade occurred at a brand that is *NOT* on the list of excluded brands. An individual property may choose to upgrade a member but that is expressly not a benefit of the program. Quit lying.
@ Gary Leff
Seriously, dude?
Common, Gary, stop rewriting history. My original comment has now been erased. What a surprise.
To quote the Gary Leff article above:
“according to the program’s terms, Hilton doesn’t even offer complimentary upgrades at nearly half (8 out of 18) of their brands….[then cites terms “the following brands do not offer complimentary upgrades…Hilton Garden Inn…”]”
For the record Platy’s experience as cited in comments herein (whether erased or not): upgraded at a Hilton Garden Inn (LHR T2/T3) and received full restaurant buffet breakfast for wife and self.
“You said your upgrade occurred at a brand that is *NOT* on the list of excluded brands.”
No. That’s not the case according to your own article.
So now your rebuttal @ DCS is gaslighting and I’m a liar? WTF?!
Enough is enough.
@platy – we went back and forth on LXR Santa Monica (where upgrades apply!).
Your comments are long, and I missed a reference to Hilton Garden Inn. What I wrote in my post about Hilton Garden Inn: “Last fall Hilton told owners that advance complimentary upgrades would begin at Hilton Garden Inn properties.” They haven’t updated the terms and conditions. What on earth being given the breakfast buffet has to do with the upgrade benefit I have no idea.
Someone tell DCS to give it a rest. I’m tired of his tripe
Hilton blows like Paul Pelosi’s bf.
It’s really rich for someone who has been lying for years in the face of a mountain of evidence debunking his canards to ask anyone to “quit lying”.
@Gary, you keep hiding behind T&Cs that you willfully misinterpreted years ago to support your biases and have continued to push the same biases for years even after SPG is dead, HGP has become appropriately WoH! (considering the price tag to reach the only status that matters in the program) and Marriott Rewards has become, well, “Bonvoy”, and Hilton Honors has introduced an airline-like global automated room upgrade scheme and made LT Diamond the program’s top elite status. The world of hotel loyalty has changed, and if you are to be the “thought leader in travel” you need to adapt and adopt to the changes.
You should quit writing about Hilton Honors until you actually stay at the Hilton properties as a top elite to know what you are talking about. To keep disparaging the program based on your willful misinterpretation of the T&C to suit your biases instead of correcting your erroneous views when provided with actual real-life experiences makes you the liar.
Programs’ T&Cs can be interpreted any way one wishes, therefore, one has to rely on what happens in practice. In your case T&Cs mean anything that you want them mean even if that meaning is not consistent with program’s meaing or intent. Let’s take the T&C of SPG (R.I.P), which you misinterpreted so badly that it led to posts like these, which I just checked and are still up for anyone to read to see the consequence of convincing the masses of your bogus claims:
2012 — I am Sick of Arguing for Starwood Upgrades. (travelcodex)
2013 — Platinum SPG, best room upgrade: please change the language. (FlyerTalk)
2014 — Starwood Platinum Suite Upgrades: Why Does It Have To Be A Fight? (OMAAT)
2015 — Destroying Loyalty: Starwood’s Lies & Expectation Management (gamification)
SPG T&C on suite upgrades:
That policy is virtually identical for all the major hotel loyalty program’s. Some might call it “best available room”, “preferred room”, “enhanced room”, but in the real world , all programs mean exactly the same thing: top elites will be upgraded to higher category rooms up to standard one-bedroom suites, based on availability as determined by each property. That individual properties get to decide what is “best available room”, “preferred room”, “enhanced room” means no upgrade type can be “guaranteed” because properties will generally not upgrade elite members to suites if there is a high likelihood that they can still sell the suites for cash. They are not “playing games”. They are simply looking out for their bottom line. It’s why there are so many reports of check-in agents telling members that there are no suites available for upgrades even though a hotel’s website shows suites to be available. Most of that should be simple common sense, but not to Gary, who reinterpreted the T&Cs to suit his biases, regardless of the consequences, the most obvious of which was to falsely raise expectations to unmanageable levels.
Last but not least because it is exactly on the topic of the current post, virtually every program excludes certain properties or brands from those where elite upgrades are offered. SPG was no exception:
— This benefit [read: room upgrades] does not apply to all-suite hotels [just like at Embassy Suites!]
— This benefit [read: room upgrades] is not offered at Aloft and Element.
See why the post is utterly ridiculous? In your eagerness to yet again paint Hilton Honors as an inferior program for excluding certain brands from upgrades, you forgot to do the simplest of backgrounds checks that would have shown you that the practice is common to all the programs and prevented you from writing a nonsensical piece.
But there is nothing like real-life experience, as @platy repeatedly pointed out. My last two stays were at Embassy Suites Chicago and at a Hilton Grand Vacations in St. Maarten, and I got upgraded at both, despite being among Hilton properties that fit in your claim that Hilton Refuses To Upgrade Elite Members At 44% Of Its Brands.
Stop writing (and lying) about Hilton Honors until you have experienced the program first-hand as a top elite and know exactly what it offers.
G’day.
@John L — You are barking up the wrong tree. Tell the forum host to stop writing falsehoods that some of us who know better endeavor to correct as a “public service”. And with the ridiculous reference to “Paul Pelosi’s bf”, you’ve established your MAGA bona fide, which says it all.
Get lost.
@platy
Take a moment to calm down, get your self together, as you appear unhinged.
Hilton may upgrade but rarely does. The manager at the Hilton Cape Rey Carlsbad said in a private, candid conversation that members will only be upgraded no more than one level above what they booked. Most Hiltons are old, outdated, and few new built luxury properties.
Hilton Diamond status is easy to obtain with the credit card. Thus, there are more Diamond members than rooms to upgrade to.
Gary or others can write what they want. Why do you visit his web if you do not like it? Go to another website that you enjoy.
Hilton Lifetime Diamond who no longer stays at Hilton. I got tired of being charged for my free breakfast and being denied upgrades in half empty hotels. I get treated much better at Hyatt with low status.
@ Gary Leff
“Your comments are long, and I missed a reference to Hilton Garden Inn.”
My initial comment was succinct and specifically cited the Hilton Garden Inn experience.
It was published but disappeared. Go figure.
“What on earth being given the breakfast buffet has to do with the upgrade benefit I have no idea.”
Regardless, we got the room upgrade. Your distraction cannot erase such.
Now to your own propensity to mistruth (having ironically called me the liar – WTF – luckily I don’t actually care). You now claim:
“Last fall Hilton told owners that advance complimentary upgrades would begin at Hilton Garden Inn properties.” They haven’t updated the terms and conditions.”
If we accept that to be the case, why on earth would you include Hilton Garden Inn in your calculation of 44% of Hilton properties who you falsely claim refuse upgrades to elite members?! It’s just click bait anti Hilton wind up BS.
Hint – if you take the Hilton Garden Inn properties sou tov your equation you would end up with 32% not 44%, even if you accept your logic (which is tenuous anyway).
You would know that going on the T&Cs in the article above is utterly misleading your readers.
Yet again you’ve been caught out by spreading misinformation refusal to admit an error begets yet more to over your tracks.
Welcome to the inanity and lack of accountability of social media. Say what you want- if takes inordinate effort to disprove.
As always, on a personal level I wish you and your family every success and excellent health.
Hmmm…I wrote a post yesterday morning that crisply synthesized to the “debate” here, but it has not been published…I wonder why…
Debated on whether to reply again, but it’s hard for me to let BS go uncorrected. Guess I’m a glutton for punishment. 🙂
DCS, I still don’t feel like you’ve substantiated your claim that Gary is “misinterpreting” anything, let alone “willfully.” I’ve been over this before in a previous comment, but both Hyatt’s and Marriott’s terms state that their elites (Globalist; Platinum and higher) WILL receive, i.e. are ENTITLED to, an upgrade to a (standard 1-bedroom) suite as long as one is available at check-in. Hilton’s terms just say Diamond upgrades “MAY” include suites.
Do you at least acknowledge that that difference exists?
That may seem like splitting hairs to you, but in practice, it means that if a hotel tells you NO (i.e. “there *is* a standard suite available, but it’s not our policy to upgrade elites for free, so you’d have to pay for it”), the answer to the question “Are they in violation of the program’s T&C?” depends on whether they are a Hyatt/Marriott (yes) or a Hilton (no).
(And no, the T&C cannot “be interpreted any way one wishes” – that’s ridiculous; they’re written in a very specific way for a reason, likely signed off on by their legal department.)
Think about that. If a Hyatt or Marriott has a standard suite available but an uninformed desk agent denies an eligible elite member the upgrade, they are **in violation** of the terms of the program. You can escalate to corporate customer service and they’ll most likely call the hotel, inform them of their error, work with them to make sure you get that upgrade, and probably compensate you some points for the trouble, plus presumably put some kind of strike on their record. (That’s how it’s *supposed* to work, anyway; in practice, I’d put more money on that resolving correctly with Hyatt than Marriott.)
Whereas if a Hilton denies you the upgrade, you’re on your own. They can hide behind the terms of the program saying “MAY include suites” and say “nope, it’s entirely up to our discretion” – and corporate will agree, having no power to actually make them upgrade you, since they’re not technically violating anything. You brought up that on their benefits page, Hilton actually advertises to Diamonds, “If we have a better room available, it’s yours – up to a 1-bedroom suite.” But the T&C make this an empty promise at best; the individual hotels (which aren’t owned/operated by Hilton) aren’t bound by some marketing on Hilton’s website.
I’m happy for you that you have a high success rate of getting upgrades, especially overseas. But most of us traveling in the US don’t have that same success with Hilton.
So I’ll ask again, DCS: **even if your personal experience differs in terms of successful upgrades,** will you at least acknowledge that this important difference exists between Hilton and Hyatt/Marriott?
@platy, on a similar note:
Congrats on getting the room upgrade! But, it still doesn’t make this article “misinformation.”
I’ll concede that the word “refuses” (which only appears in the title) might be a bit strong – perhaps incorrect word choice there, or needs to be more specific. Like “refuses to include 44% of its brands in its room upgrade benefit” or something. But from context, it’s obvious that he doesn’t mean they refuse to upgrade you every time, categorically. Sometimes, you will indeed get lucky and a nice front desk agent will go above and beyond the requirements of the program. But the point is that they don’t *have* to at those brands, which (some of us think) is ridiculous. (This isn’t limited to Hilton, though they may be the worst offender of the major chains.)
And the fact that “last fall Hilton told owners that advance complimentary upgrades would begin at Hilton Garden Inn properties” is irrelevant if the official rules of the program haven’t been updated to reflect this. It still means HGI isn’t *required* to upgrade an elite guest, even if upgraded rooms are available; it’s not misleading at all.
There’s this new definition of “misinformation” going around that basically means “correct information, but not presented with the spin I want it to have.” Sorry, but that’s not misinformation.
@ DCS
“Hmmm…I wrote a post yesterday morning that crisply synthesized to the “debate” here, but it has not been published…I wonder why…”
Welcome to the club, mate. My original comment herein (a very short and evidenced rebuttal of the article’s headline) apparently published then disappeared (ironically after the obligatory moderation that ALL of my comments are subjected to anyway).
When blogs repeatedly and wantonly publish misinformation in favour of click rates, it’s time to accept they lack credibility. Disappointing that the readership is so gullible they won’t or can’t apply any basic critical faculty to question the content.
To note that a number of the more erudite commentators herein seemed to have already left in recent weeks / months.
Enough is enough.
@ Chris W
“DCS, I still don’t feel like you’ve substantiated your claim that Gary is “misinterpreting” anything”
Here is one example of his fakery (wanton misinterpretation).
The article says Hilton Garden Inn as one brand that “refuses upgrades”. Now Gary says it isn’t (recent comment) and the T&Cs have not been updated.
Here’s the falsehood – Gary based his article on T&Cs that he now claims he knew were out-of-date – thus knowingly and conveniently ignoring information to create the worst case premise against Hilton.
He hides behind T&Cs when its convenient to his narrative (e.g. this article), but rejects them when it’s inconvenient to his narrative (e.g. review VA SYD-CNS denies T&Cs of United status challenge).
Savvy?
@ Gene says:
“Take a moment to calm down, get your self together, as you appear unhinged.”
Take a moment to clear your mind, get your thoughts together, as you appear unhindered by the concept of evidenced positions.
If you don’t personally find value in Hilton Honors then don’t engage in the program. Perhaps be sure that your choices are well directed. Hint – try chasing down the strengths of each loyalty program instead of obsessing about the negatives.
“Gary or others can write what they want”
Well, yes (within reasonable bounds, etc ) and no (legal risk).
Gary’s content is repeatedly lacking in factual basis. If you don’t care about that, then happy days, dude. Gary obviously doesn’t, so you’d be an ideal reader if you don’t either. Go and base your perceptions, prejudices and opinions on inaccurate content. I ain’t stopping you.
” Why do you visit his web if you do not like it?”
I have my reasons, which include gathering information on how Gary perceives the frequent traveller universe and characteristics of his readership (at least those who comment), partly curious at how and why people reject evidence that challenge their world view and how certain concepts obviously outdated or unsubstantiated can become entrenched.
“Go to another website that you enjoy.”
Out of curiosity do you think there is any intrinsic happiness / enjoyment / positivity emanating from this blog or the comments herein? It comes across to me as mostly negative and non constructive and typified by the sort of personal abuse in your comment, unsurprising when Gary’s “leadership” is to do just that himself.
@platy – You’re changing your story.
The post was clear that Hilton Garden Inn is excluded from having to upgrade guests in the Honors terms and conditions. And I was the first to report that these brands were told that they were going to start upgrades. And of course a given hotel can upgrade a guest when not required to. But Hilton’s terms do not make them.
100% accurate. 100% Hilton sources cited.
You got an upgrade. Congratulations. That does nothing to undermine what I’ve written, let alone make it ‘false.’ Oh, and you reported getting benefits at one of their brands where Hilton requires it. Again, that didn’t undermine the post either. Oh, and you got breakfast – which you somehow thought was relevant to dispute my post about upgrades.
:rolleyes:
@platy – DCS’s post when into spam – not even the moderation queue – and I dug it out. In fact, his comment saying that his comments were being deleted had been sent automatically by the system to spam and I dug it out and posted it. There was no censorship of DCS. And every comment of yours I’ve ever seen has been published. Really sick and tired of the baseless attacks.
@ Gary Leff
“You’re changing your story.”
No, Gary Leff, you are changing yours as the counter logic and counter evidence erase your position.
“The post was clear that Hilton Garden Inn is excluded from having to upgrade guests in the Honors terms and conditions.”
Your post claims that “Hilton refuses upgrades” at properties according to their T&Cs. Hilton Garden Inn was cited as a brand that refuses upgrades.
This statement was untrue. I provided you with the evidence to counter such claim. Faced with such evidence, surprise, surprise you changed your story in a subsequent post, thus:
“And I was the first to report that these brands were told that they were going to start upgrades.”
By your own admission (in the post above and the one I’m now citing) the T&Cs that you were basing your claim were out of date. You sought then (and now) to rely on the T&Cs to bolster your claim – we now know (since you changed your story) that you already knew that such evidence was unreliable, you regarded it as out of date, but used it anyway.
“And of course a given hotel can upgrade a guest when not required to.”
So, your article is incorrect, it states “Hilton refuses upgrades at…”
“But Hilton’s terms do not make them.”
You have changed your story, Gary Leff. You didn’t write “Hilton does not require certain hotel brands to offer upgrades according to current T&Cs, although it remains at the discretion of individual hotels”. You wrote “Hilton refuses upgrades at…”
“100% accurate. 100% Hilton sources cited.”
Your claim is inaccurate. In reality, Hilton does not “refuse upgrades” at x brands. You even accept this by stating in your comment that “a given hotel can upgrade a guest when not required to”. Your claim also relies on T&Cs. Sure, you cited these, so you can now mount a febrile “defense”. But the problem Gary, is that you now admit those T&Cs were outdated. That infers that you knowingly drew upon them knowing that they were misrepresentative.
“You got an upgrade. Congratulations. That does nothing to undermine what I’ve written, let alone make it ‘false.’”
Actually, any reasonable and mentally compete person would recognise that it does counter the core claim of your original article.
“Oh, and you reported getting benefits at one of their brands where Hilton requires it. Again, that didn’t undermine the post either. Oh, and you got breakfast – which you somehow thought was relevant to dispute my post about upgrades.”
No. That was directed at other posters making claims about HH which did not accord to my personal experience.You have already admitted that you fail to read the posts with due attention: it’s not surprising you get lost in the logical flow of the argument. FWIW I find it remarkable that you have the time to devote to run this blog given your other commitments
“:rolleyes:”
Ibid.
“DCS’s post when into spam – not even the moderation queue – and I dug it out”
Just as I’ve previous advised that all of my posts automatically go to moderation (which continues to be the case – fine that’s your choice), I’m letting you know that something odd happened to my short and evidenced original post to this thread and it hasn’t been the first time comments didn’t make it.
Mate, your internal spam / moderation processes and their efficiency at meeting their goals are a matter for your good self.
“Really sick and tired of the baseless attacks”
I dunno, Gary. When you call somebody a liar because you have “misread” their post, that’s pretty baseless. You previously made a very personal post attacking me as a “mean” person, which was spectacularly out of order (fortunately you deleted that one).
In terms of the article, you’ve made strident claims about Hilton, which you know to be misrepresentative of real-world experience. I fail to see how that helps anyone genuine about improving their travel game.
Irrationally bashing up the same loyalty program article after article rather than looking for the strengths in each is very negative and unhelpful approach. But, hey, your website, your choice.
FWIW @ Gene’s comment got me thinking about just how much of your blog content and attendant commentary is so cfuking negative. FAA bad, unions bad, CDC bad, masks bad, Hilton bad, BA bad, etc, etc., the same boring idiotopes ceaselessly recycled.
Be well, fella. I don’t intend to post further on his topic unless needed to challenge any further baseless personal attacks.
Be well – be brilliant and go spend some time with your family….;)
@Chris W. — Let me make this really easy for you to understand: any argument whose validity depends on parsing programmatic T&Cs instead of on real-life experiences is stupid.
Hilton tells its Diamonds: “If we have a better room available, it’s yours – up to a 1-bedroom suite“, but you ignore that because it does not jibe with what you’d like the T&Cs to mean. However, that is precisely why you need to interpret T&Cs based on real-life experiences…
Bottom line: In real-life, there is no hotel loyalty program in which members are “entitled to” or are “guaranteed” suite upgrades for reasons that I gave in the post you responded to. Just read these posts and understand parsing T&Cs to support one’s point in suite upgrades is stupid:
2012 — I am Sick of Arguing for Starwood Upgrades. (travelcodex)
2013 — Platinum SPG, best room upgrade: please change the language. (FlyerTalk)
2014 — Starwood Platinum Suite Upgrades: Why Does It Have To Be A Fight? (OMAAT)
2015 — Destroying Loyalty: Starwood’s Lies & Expectation Management (gamification)
Give it up.