A United Airlines passenger reports lucking out with an empty middle seat next them right as the doors closed before pushback on a four hour flight. There’s few better feelings, because the single greatest determinant of whether or not you have a good flight is lucking into that extra space. The food tastes better. Flight attendants seem friendlier. You’re just in a much better mood.
Except it wasn’t to be. A woman with her toddler came over and plopped themselves down in that middle seat. She explained that she didn’t have enough space in the middle seat she’d been in further back in the aircraft – so she self-upgraded to “economy plus” extra legroom seats.
That way, she said, she’d be “more comfortable” with her kid – while her husband remained in an aisle seat farther back.
- The passenger in the aisle offered to switch seats with the husband, even though it meant less legroom for him.
- That way the family could be together, he wouldn’t be seated next to the toddler, and he’d still have an empty middle next to him. Sometimes elbow room is more valuable than legroom.
- But the husband declined. He was happy sitting in back (1) with the empty middle, and (2) away from his wife and kid.
- He was literally being offered an upgrade to the extra legroom section, but “[h]e flat out refused no matter what I said or asked.” He didn’t want to sit next to his family.
Then it became clear why the husband did that,
Turns out the reason why is this kid is a nightmare…. Throwing tantrums the whole flight. Kicking, screaming, throwing things at me.
Here’s that middle seat at the end of the flight.
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byu/spidermonkey2947 from discussion
inunitedairlines
Live and Let’s Fly offers several suggestions,
- Tell a flight attendant that the mother self-upgraded into extra legroom seats. United sells those for more money, and generally doesn’t permit free switching in flight to those.
- Move your own seat away from the mother and child, next to the husband. Two can play at that game!
- Actually, the wife should have left the child behind with the husband.
I disagree with the passenger’s conclusion here, though, that “Lap Babies should be banned if not just for a safety reason as we had turbulence and the kid was bouncing and flailing around like it was possessed.”
Requiring families buy an additional seat makes travel unaffordable for many families – and encourages more driving and less flying. That compromises safety because driving is far more dangerous. That sort of rule falls under the concept of ‘statistical murder’. You’re actually costing lives in ways that aren’t directly seen.
Why should I care about a rando passenger? Is it a high status passenger–not in silly marketing terms like 1K or GS, but in real socioeconomic terms like equity partner at Kirkland & Ellis?
The passenger’s conclusion reeks of ignorance. FAA and experts have closely assessed the risks and benefits of lap babies and the conclusion is obviously one that supports the viability of lap babies without their own seats.
This bespeaks a poor understanding of statistics. It’s okay, you’re a non-PhD economist. Consider the counterfactual. If families can’t afford an additional seat, do they drive? Not necessarily. Many won’t travel at all, and that’s even safer than flying. Those who will drive are, by virtue of being with family, likely to drive larger/safer vehicles such as SUVs; they are likely to drive more cautiously in the right lane rather than show off their inferiority complex in the left lane. Further, where driving is a viable alternative to flying–say, New York to DC–the routes are slower and more congested meaning any incident that does occur is much less likely to be fatal compared to, say, rolling over on a barren 80mph interstate in the middle of the country where you are hundreds of miles from the nearest trauma center.
Many will drive locally. But the signficant difference in safety in modes of transportation overwhelms especially because risk of a lap infant is so small.
And a partner at Kirkland is a 1%er but certainly not high status.
Slightly OT and a lot of people will disagree, but I value elbow room over leg room every time. I’m 5′ 9″ and like to use my laptop. I can park my legs, but my arms need room to maneuver.
Regarding the actual story – has all the markings of a made-up tale. I would bet it’s fake.
This is why you put stuff on the empty middle.
Entitled broad and her spawn.
Hey , when a person decided to go on Public Transportation , he gave up his “dibs” on an empty seat next to him . He doesn’t own the airline or the other passengers . It could have been expected that someone would occupy the seat , and in this case it was a mother with an infant . So what ?
Yes, many will drive locally, whether at their home or at their travel destination. Driving away from home, in a rental car on unfamiliar roads, is certainly less safe. In any case, there are no concrete numbers to argue here. Let’s move on.
Let’s start with hard facts. The U.S. income threshold for the top 1% is $800k (for a household). A non-equity partner at Kirkland makes that much (as an individual).
In 2023, the average income of Kirkland equity partners was $7,955,000. That exceeds the 1% threshold but it also exceeds the 10% threshold… my point here being the meaningful threshold is somewhere more rare than 1%.
How about 0.1%. That threshold is $3.3m. That’s less than half of Kirkland’s PPEP. Remember, these thresholds are household income. Kirkland equity partners are often married, and they have or had their pick of singles. Ms. “6’5, finance, trust fund, blue eyes” must not have heard of any white shoe law firms. If she had, the meme would be “K&E, P.C., corp or lit, you name it.”
If you have/had your pick of suitors, your spouse is likely of similar socioeconomic status. Say you make $20m as a rainmaker. (Several partners at Kirkland exceed even this number.) So you pick a spouse, maybe a Paul, Weiss partner, who also makes $20m. Your household income is $40m just from your partnership draws. Add in miscellany such as investment dividends and you are over the $43m gross income threshold to be in the top 0.01%.
Bottom line. To say a Kirkland equity partner is merely a 1%er is an underestimate by a factor of 10 to 100.
Addendum. Class is not determined only by income. Also important is education. All Kirkland equity partners hold advanced degrees. Hedge fund, private equity, and venture capital principals typically do not. Plus, in finance, who know if you reaped the results of luck or skill? The practice of law is unencumbered by stochasticity. Listen to oral argument; of interest to the audience of this blog, I recommend the representation of American Express by a Cravath partner in front of SCOTUS back in 2018. Cravath won for Amex on raw, dazzling skill. That’s high class.
Why the NTSA allows a kid to be in a lap in a seat on a plane but not in a car I have no idea why.
Parents who are too cheap to put their kid in a car seat in plane are the one reason why CPS was established
Why the NTSA allows a kid to be in a lap in a seat on a plane but not in a car I have no idea why.
Parents who are too cheap to put their child in a car seat on a plane should not fly nor drive
@SFO/EWR … What are you on about ?
This was merely a good mother with an infant on a means of Public transportation .
She is owed her portion of The Golden Rule , as are we all .
Mother should have been forced to return to her original seat – the one she paid for – no exceptions.
100% would of pushed the FA call button and told this b***h to get back to her seat. I choose my seat based on empty middles and keep refreshing the seatmap up they close the door.
N 100% peolle should have to pay for their annoying kids to traveling. We are not a socialist country. You want to fly. Pay up. Also we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in modern history. If you dont have a good job it is because you are a stupid moron. Anyone who has half a brain can make tons of money.
I came from free lunches in school and now have 5 degrees and make bank.
The poster is literally a conpletely p****y… just sits there and takes it…
although the current SCt is making inroads to limiting it, ‘the right to be left alone’ can still be claimed. Without digressions into economics controlling family travel; a 7-hour overnight premium economy flight on AA was ruined by the 3 (or so) year old kid one row ahead. He screamed non-stop, from takeoff to landing, my Bose headset couldn’t cover it, he’d lean back over the seat and get closer to my head and scream again. I understand the arguments, kids yell, but as a passenger I have bought the right have a peaceful flight. FA’s are quick to tell passengers watching e-players/phones to use headsets, they’re bothering others. An adult who insists on yelling would result in an emergency landing. At what age does the right to scream fade away?
“Requiring families buy an additional seat makes travel unaffordable for many families – and encourages more driving and less flying. That compromises safety because driving is far more dangerous. That sort of rule falls under the concept of ‘statistical murder’. You’re actually costing lives in ways that aren’t directly seen.”
You know what? I’m really okay with all of that. Those parents aren’t going to be driving the same distance it takes for an airplane to fly for four hours. Children shouldn’t be flying anyway until they are 10 years or older and even then it should be on a case-by-case basis. It should be just one of those costs you have to consider when procreating. “If I spawn, I won’t get to fly for 10 or 12 years.”
Flying about in the Summer is the worst! Virgin Voyages has it right, no kids! I hope that Virgin Atlantic takes up the mantle and learns well from their sister company. At the very least, set aside some flights on frequently flown city pairs and designate them “strictly adults only”. I even have a cheeky name for it, Virgin Adults. I would pay a premium for that!
The FAA has done no such “safety assessment “ to determine it is “as safe” for a child to be held as it is in a car seat. The child is at MUCH greater risk being held on a lap vs in a car seat.
ALL children under the age of 9 should be checked as luggage! Spend 10 hours in Virgin Upper Class with a 4 year old screaming ALL DAMN NIGHT LONG! Give him a teaspoon of “paregoric”, put a ping pong ball in his mouth, a waterproof and “smell proof” garment on his butt and LEAVE ME THE HELL ALONE!
Interesting how every poster seems to be spouting off about what parents should do with there children during travels on airplanes and my advice to most would be to Mind your own Damn business because No one asked you to Brown-nose into their business
“Requiring families buy an additional seat makes travel unaffordable for many families”
Dumb reasoning but a plausible one because people do stupid things all the time.
Especially some agency that cherry picks a research to support this.
Unless you discard children after 2 years, you’re still going to eventually pay for the seat.
And while we’re at affordability, if these bureaucrats wants to encourage fly over drive because it’s safer, then they can start by capping airport parking fees.
Another I decided to have a child and therefore the world owes me a debt mother.
Dont know which airline, but I’m surprised that she was allowed by the FA to move to a higher fare category. I always thought no one cared if passengers spread out after the cabin door shut but within their same fare class. Probably didn’t notice.. Guessing the only way it would become an FA issue is if they actually did a count like they do in first, or if the passenger who got an unwelcome seat mate complained. If it was a short flight I wouldn’t care, but I’d not be happy on a long haul. Nothing against kids, I took them on planes and dealt with nasty looks by other passengers, but as a parent, I always felt it was up to me to minimize the impact of my kid in the cabin, so we always booked the sane row and I never flew with any my kids in my lap. No way
Passenger who paid for extra legroom seat should have told FA about the self upgrader. Hopefully, self upgrader would have been moved back to the seat she bought. Even within the same fare class, I hate it when I luck out with an empty middle then some seat switcher takes it. People even do it when they are with their family or friends in a row of three to create an empty middle for them. Just sit in your assigned seat and stay put unless an FA move you because of a really intolerable situation like a POS encroaching into your seat.
Sorry, but I have to disagree. All children, regardless of age, need to be properly restrained in a seat.
This constant nonsense of “They’ll drive and get killed if we don’t let them have a free infant seat” is ridiculous. People don’t magically stop flying when their kid turns two. If they do, should we give free passage to all children? Hell, maybe all flying should be free. You know, as a public service.
Your children are irreplaceable. If you dont care enough about their safety to buy them a proper seat, I really question your priorities. If you cant afford a seat for them, and you think it’s too dangerous to drive with them in a car seat, then may I suggest you stay home.
Most airlines will not allow a passenger to hold an INFANT who is over two years old. Still, this is dangerous to both the mother and baby.
I just flew on a UA flight two days ago; there were 15 empty middles in E+ and 6 empty seats in regular economy. An FA announced at least 3 times during boarding that if someone wanted to move to an empty E+ seat that they would need to pay for it. The FAs should have stopped the self-upgrader. I once pushed my call button when someone self-upgraded to my exit row on UA before the door closed, who then tried to refuse to move, and the FA threatened to have them kicked off the plane because they were violating an FAA regulation for someone being in the exit row who couldn’t speak English and was not briefed.
“Self upgrade”?
You mean “steal”.
Another example of how not a day goes by that leftie “news media” doesn’t normalizes degenerate behavior.
I agree this is probably a made up click-bait story. Only one further point – some infants and small toddlers are better behaved on a parent’s lap than when restrained in a child seat. Unlike others wont to pontificate on matters they may not have solid bases for, I don’t know what parent lap seating works out to afa safety for the child, vs. a child seat (though the latter, properly employed, seems intuitively safer). But surrounding passengers may find the flight more pleasant with the nearby small child passenger in a parent’s arms than not.