Sam Bowman reports that he was flying Virgin Atlantic in economy. He reclined his seat, he says, in order “to sleep and the grown man behind me started violently shaking and kicking my seat.” After the violent passenger was told to stop, “his wife loudly declared that I was a sociopath.”
The important point to make here, aside from the obvious “don’t physically shake the seat of the person in front of you” is that a passenger whose seat reclines gets to decide whether to put that seat in the upright or reclined position, outside of takeoff and landing where the government makes the decision for them. It’s not always appropriate to recline, but the decision belongs to the passenger whose seat it is.
He isn't even very tall AFAICT. He just has a bag under the seat where his legs should be. I would happily discuss the reclining politely with someone – I don't want to make tall people uncomfortable, though I do need to sleep – but really taken aback by that reaction.
— Sam Bowman 🇺🇦 (@s8mb) September 3, 2022
Thank you to the excellent crew member at @virginatlantic who was firm with him and calmed the situation down. He and his wife said I was "running to teacher" by asking her to deal with the situation. Must be a very difficult job dealing with people like that – it is appreciated!
— Sam Bowman 🇺🇦 (@s8mb) September 3, 2022
Seat recline is important for passengers on long flights with poorly-padded seats, as a way of distributing passenger weight to reduce back stress. Reclining is also a passenger’s right.
- The seat is designed to recline (except on certain airlines like Spirit and Frontier)
- A passenger controls their own seat
- Airlines ban the Knee Defender device, which prevents recline – a device was designed to stop reclining and airlines wouldn’t allow it (though largely to prevent damage to the seat)
In an environment surrounded by masses of people it’s nice to pretend no one else exists. It’s even better to take politeness into account. So there is an etiquette to exercising your right to recline.
- Don’t recline during mealtime.
- Try not to recline unless it serves a real purpose (if it doesn’t actually benefit your comfort, don’t recline).
If you don’t want the passenger in front of you to recline, the correct approach is to politely ask them not to. And if they want to recline and you don’t want them to, see a Coasian solution. Offer them money not to recline.
I once paid a child (with their parents’ permission) not to recline on a Cleveland – Los Angeles flight so that I could work on my laptop. It was the best $5 I could have spent.
Unwritten rules of etiquette are a very bad idea on planes which represent a mishmash of international cultures and social practices. We can get by with the basics. What are the firm policies? Your seat has to be upright for taxi takeoff and landing. Flight crew may give additional instructions that must be followed.
Other than that if your seat includes a reclining function then it is yours to control at your whim. Is it annoying if you recline at mealtime, yes. Should there be any rule, written or otherwise, against it? No. Disagreement over rules, especially unwritten rules, is exactly how arguments and potential violence starts.
If you hate people who recline in front of you then you need to be flying a more expensive cabin. Reclines in domestic first class don’t bother most people because the tray table comes out of the side armrests. In international business and first class the seats are separate pods and recline is not even visible to others.
@ Gary — This guy should pay for more room or stay home.
Calling all trolls…
I rarely recline my seat when flying coach. But a written rule should be not to “slam” the seat back—that’s how laptops and knees get broken. I can think of nothing more rude than pushing the button and leaning back full force.
@Jim Warren, you can’t think of anything more rude than that? How about getting drunk and loudly claiming that the whole plane is liberal homosexuals and you hope the plane crashes?
Its crazy up there in the sky when you start dealing with some very complex damaged personalities emotionally.
I remember one woman that was enraged that she and her daughter were not sitting together in coach as they didn’t pay the seat fees and got separated .She turned to what was mostly single business travelers and started yelling at us say we were all a bunch of selfish rude (censored censored)making her suffer throughout the flight without her daughter.
One of them gave up their seat just to shut her up.Yelling at me never ends well and I chose not to move based on her rotten behavior.
On a flight to Australia many years ago when United still had first class I was seated in the bulkhead left side of cabin near the closet and another fellow across from me on the other side of the plane started reprimanding me for utilizing the air nozzle (cabins can get stuffy sometimes) over my head saying that the air flow was bothering him on his side of the cabin.He then reported it to the FA saying to her he had warned me to shut it off earlier in the flight and to put a stop to it immediately (sigh)
You cant make this stuff up.Let the flyer beware 🙂
Dwonderment: I hope the FA told him to stuff it…..
“a passenger whose seat reclines gets to decide whether to put that seat in the upright or reclined position” … and therein lies the problem folks. A sense of entitlement to do as one wishes without any consideration for the person behind
@JorgeGeorge Paez
Sadly the FA asked in the spirit of goodwill would I make him happy,turn it off and help de-escalate the situation so I did.She handed me a box of Godiva’s and a bottle of wine upon my exiting the aircraft and said thank your for being a helpful cooperative passenger..
Had a nut job on a BA flight to London once too in First Class.
I’m resting in the bed in the center aisle and he comes over
and just stares at me standing up over me stalker style
When I look at how many decades I’ve been up in the air the events are thankfully rare but you don’t forget them lol.
Its a creeper world out there sometimes and someone has to do the creepin! 😉
Scary stuff
“A sense of entitlement to do as one wishes without any consideration for the person behind.”
Or, it appears in this case, “for the person in front”.
Dwonderment: I’m glad you got some treats out of it!
Seats that recline, recline by design. Airlines which have limited recline seats, will often disclose it. Those seats are rarely selected by passengers when given the choice for reclining seats. All passengers should expect that the person in front of them may choose to recline the seat, and understand that it is the passenger’s prerogative to do so (unless takeoff/landing or other airline mandate)
All of you saying a passenger should have the right to recline their seat over the person sitting in the back of them is a crock of BS. I paid for my seat which entails the area from the back of the seat with the tray on it. If I want to use said tray then explain to me how I am supposed to when some entitled jerk decides to invade that space. Seats shouldn’t recline at all.
$5?
CEB- you should stick to flying Spirit
I coincidentally ran across an old set of knee defenders a month ago. I may try them out on my next WN flight just for kicks.
Well, you only have that problem when you fly cattle class as they behave like cattles. Ppl. have forgotten how to behave nowadays. It is only about their own personal satisfaction and does not care who they have offended along the way.
Simple ban these ppl. who cause unnecessary commotions from flying. If there is a consequence of their bad behavior they might understand to behave decently next time, if ever allowed to fly.
Happened to me on an AirCanada long-haul flight. I was sleeping and the guy behind me just started shaking the seat for a good 5-10 minutes. I thought it was a kid but turned out to be a grown man.
@Daffy it was a pre-teen and many years ago
Taller folks have numerous advantages in life, the least they can do is suck it up and deal with the person reclining or pay for F
Book a non-bulkhead exit row seat as I do With B6 mid cabin extra legroom as an example and the seat in front of you can’t recline to protect the access to the exit.
0% chance there’s a problem if you don’t recline.
0% chance there’s a problem if you don’t drive that vehicle you purchased. Reductio Ad Absurdum.
I wonder if the complainer had reclined his seat. I bet he did and what his reaction would be if some one did the same to him. Based on his reaction, I think we know how he would behave. With his usual sense of entitlement.
@C E B
I you don’t want your space invaded, spend the bucks for a seat with more pitch. If the seat reclines, it’s that person’s right. JFC.
@Dwondermeant- how does one react when someone is standing over them watching them sleep? That is CREEEEPY!!!
Your right to recline ends where my knees begin.