A passenger on a flight from Mexico to Manchester in the U.K. on TUI spent the entire 8 hour journey locked in a battle with the flyer in front of them. He decided that the person in the row ahead would not recline into his space under any circumstance. And he enforced that edict with his hands.
On the August 8 TUI flight, a passenger went to recline but found their seat wouldn’t move. The man behind them had become a human ‘Knee Defender’ by slamming both of his palms firmly against the seat back-and kept them there. And he didn’t let go.
He held the seatbacks for the entire flight. I think the family eventually assumed their seats were broken and gave up.
The passenger filming this says he wanted to clue the passenger in to what was happening, but every time he’d walk past them, they were asleep. I guess they didn’t need recline after all!
Ironically, that man had his own recline dispute later in the flight. When he leaned back to try to sleep, the passenger in back of him called for a flight attendant and asked them to have him sit upright. But that is not how this works!
@heyimgazza TUI can we ban people like this please? #fyp #flight #jet2holidays #tui ♬ Jet2 Advert – ✈️A7-BBH | MAN
Seat recline is important for passengers on long flights with poorly-padded seats. Recline works to distribute passenger weight and reduce back stress. Reclining is also a basic right when it’s a feature of your seat (certain airlines like Spirit and Frontier feature seats they call “pre-reclined” i.e. that do not recline).
- A passenger controls their own seat
- Airlines ban the Knee Defender device, which prevents recline – a device was designed to stop reclining. While their interest is prevent damage to the seat, they do not allow the passenger seated behind to interfere with the recline function
There is an etiquette to exercising your right to recline, though. Don’t recline during mealtime. Try not to recline unless it serves a real purpose (if it doesn’t actually benefit your comfort, don’t recline).
Ultimately you need to buy the space that you want, ask politely that passengers around you conform to norms, and if they don’t get a crewmember involved. You can also consider a Coasian solution: you each have an initial set of rights and they can impede on each other’s preferences, so find a (cash) bargain.
One of the things I like about Easyjet and Ryanair is the seats don’t recline.
Seat reclining is contagious – when I’m on a flight where the passenger in front of me has reclined, then I recline to reduce my claustrophobia from the seat in front of me all of a sudden being in my lap.
one more point: don’t SLAM recline! do not push back on your seat with all your might in one burst!
I have seen laptops damaged, and more than once had MY food sent flying because the idiot in front forgot there are people in seats behind them. ” hmm, lets see if my mid-cabin seat can recline full flat” oops sorry, I forgot there was someone 6 inches behind me .
A**hole. ‘Nuff said.
Gary, your rules and protocols are great in the abstract but often don’t work out in practice. In this particular situation the guy is just nuts. Spending that kind of effort to avoid being reclined on just seems counterproductive.
TUI Doesn’t fly between Mexico City and the UK, they are a holiday airline, and there are not many beaches around MEX
They do however fly from CUN to a lot of destinations in the UK
Seems like a ‘bad hombre’ to me…
“Ironically, that man had his own recline dispute later in the flight. When he leaned back to try to sleep, the passenger in back of him called for a flight attendant and asked them to have him sit upright.”
Ahh, so karma does exist. Or, at least the ‘golden rule.’ Treat other as…
If the seat reclines, then its ok to recline it. Period.
If the person behind doesn’t like it, tough luck.
The seat belongs to person and they can do as they choose. The screen on their seat belongs to me. And if they recline it seems like I need to push the screen extra hard and frequently in order to make it function properly.
Just as a clarification. The dude keeping the row ahead of him didn’t try to recline his seat later. The person filming him tried to recline and was asked not to by the passenger behind him. I learned this when I read the Newsweek article.
@Thumper — Ahh, so karma is dead. And, I suppose it is telling when ‘Newsweek’ is more reliable than VFTW for accuracy… sheesh. What have we become… *sigh*
As long as an airline sells a seat on a plane that they designed to recline, recline at will. This is an airline created problem resulting from the seat space squeeze. Flyers are therefore entitled to recline, period! complain to the airlines!
In the last ten years, passengers in economy class have become much more pushy against passengers in front of them using the recline function in front of them. And it’s in large part the fault of the airlines for not standing by passengers’ right to use the seat recline feature throughout the flight at cruising altitude.
It’s not that simple. This is a problem that airlines created when they started to shrinking the seatspacing to become critically narrow. When I started flying decades ago, people who reclined did not end.up in other people’s laps…
“It’s not that simple. This is a problem that airlines created when they started to shrinking the seatspacing to become critically narrow. When I started flying decades ago, people who reclined did not end.up in other people’s laps…”
And @bj00rn gets this exactly right. You have so little space as it is and here some thoughtless individual (usually 5’6″ or less) comes flying back like an ejector seat. I’ve had my knee caps bruised by these idiots. And they seem to be sociopaths who couldn’t give a crap that they just tossed your meal, bent your electronic device or bruised your arm. To that end, I sympathize with this guy. What he did may not have been the most productive action available, but I get where he’s coming from.
We both woulda made the no fly list.
It always amazes me how many people just assume the other person will be reasonable. If you wanna act like Mr Hands you better be ready to catch some.
I still remember years ago I was on a flight from SFO to LHR. The second the wheels were up the seat in front of reclined. But almost instantly, the guy got up and walked away. He didn’t return until just before landing, when he moved his seat back up to the landing position.
When we deplaned, I saw him meet up with another guy and they left. It was clear they knew each other.
To this day, I suspect he spent the whole flight sitting next to his friend.
And people wonder why common courtesy doesn’t exist anymore.
“And if they recline it seems like I need to push the screen extra hard and frequently in order to make it function properly.” True jerk behavior.
The airlines may announce it, or one may think of it this way. Pessanger rights to his/her own seats, or the normal position of the seats should be reclined. If someone pulls it up, it’s a bonus for the person behind it. Airlines should advertise the specification for the seats in reclined position. Dispute resolved.
@This comes to mind — Perhaps, it’s better to bring a few spare bean-burritos, just in case you need to ‘retaliate’ against the so-called ‘jerks’… or would that be ‘collective punishment’? Sometimes you need ‘deterrence’ to achieve peace.
Aww! life in the village, never changing up or down.
I’m 6″4″. If you recline your seat, the weight of you and your seat back will be on my knees for hours. I will not let you do that. I have a right to emerge from my flight without bruises. (And before Mr. 5’8″ retorts, the bulkhead and emergency exits seats weren’t available.)
I don’t recline my seat on short hauls but my wife is a seat recline maximalist and is unconcerned with my explanation that seat recline is for long-haul flights. She reclines as soon as the plane leaves the ground.
If her seat didn’t recline, she would have gotten a flight attendant and asked for it be fixed or be moved.
We’ve agreed to disagree on this.
@Thomas – where does the article state the flight was from Mexico City to Manchester? It says “from Mexico”. Or are you reading another article about the same sad tale?
I’ve already paid for my ticket, I’m not submitting to extortion just to recline. I have lower back issues, and even traveling with my own special seat cushion I have to recline if the flight is longer than about 4 hours. I do pull my seat up for meal service if I’m awake (which I usually am). But if the seat reclines, the seat reclines.
The rules are clear:
Window seat gets to control the window.
Aisle seat can get up and down as much as they want without asking.
Center seat gets both armrests.
Try not to wake row mates to get up, but if needs must, be apologetic.
Those choosing emergency exit rows for extra legroom must sacrifice reclining.
Everyone else can recline at will except on takeoff, landing, emergency.
Wow 8 hours spent holding another persons seat to gain a couple of inches of space. Just proves you can either be right or you can be happy, you won’t get both.
@GUWonder – I disagree. The fault lies with the airlines for perpetually worsening seat pitch. A couple of decades ago there was more legroom so someone reclining in front of you wasn’t so awful. Now even people of comparatively normal height get squeezed when the person in front of them reclines rather than just us tall people.
Unfortunately I have long legs compared to the seat pitch in some airplanes. The space is tight without the person in front reclining. If they recline in such situation, they end up with my knees massaging their kidneys. Some people are reasonable in such situations and limit their recline so I try to be reasonable in return. Some people cause me pain so they get the full knee to kidney massage through the back of the seat. Mostly I consider what airplanes I fly and do not buy seats on airplanes with such tight pitch. This means not buying tickets on whole airlines since they could swap equipment at will.
Reclining in economy has been taboo for years. How do people still think it’s okay? If you don’t have enough space, why do you think it’s okay to steal from and injure the person behind you. Just stop!
This sounds like someone on the flight made it up. The idea of someone trying to stop someone who was asleep from reclining and then tried to recline himself, still keeping his hands on the seat in front, is just too far-fetched.
But on an overnight flight, yes, of course you can recline.
Just cuz you CAN do something doesn’t mean you should do it. There are many rights that you have. That doesn’t mean you should exercise them. Think about this with any number of things that are legal and within the rules.
Airlines seats suck. The rationale of reclining your seat cuz you CAN is absolutely terrible. Those that think reclining your seat isn’t completely rude, remember that when you need something to go in your favor from another that would be simple common courtesy.
“I don’t have to. There’s no law or rule that says so.”
It’s actually not any more comfortable to recline. In fact, you slide down into your seat. I bring a back support, or put a small rolled up blanket at my lower back for support.
with the guy holding the seat with both hands to keep me from reclining leaves his face open for 2 quick shots.. bust his face up and then recline…..
Maybe the bulkhead or exit rows were booked, but most of the time jerks like this won’t pay to upgrade. I agree that everyone in economy should be more considerate (e.g. if I recline, it’s a couple inches) but options are there if you pay for them.
I experienced the other side of this; the person in front of me leaning their seat into my face for 10 hours straight from Rome, Italy to St. Paul,MN. I was not happy but was not going to do that to the person behind me. I would prefer that everyone stay upright unless they ask the person behind you. That is such an awful experience when you are already cramped. Just my opinion and recent experience.
What a horrible experience flying has become from the time you arrive at the airport.you’re treated like livestock. I’m glad I traveled during better times. Ever since 911 the airlines what few are left have become flying garbage trucks.