A passenger on a cross country flight was seated next to a large passenger and found himself in an unusual situation.
The large passenger sits down and “is easily seeping into about 1/3” of the next seat. And he confronted the man, “Sir, I’m sorry but this situation is not working for me, you’re taking up quite a bit of my seat” and the man tried to squeeze himself into his own seat as much as possible.
The passenger sharing the experience asked a flight attendant for help, but there were no empty seats on the flight. At this point the larger passenger is embarrassed, apologizing that he can’t just take a later flight. And the flight attendant “tells him that unless someone on the flight agrees to let him take up part of their seat, he’ll need to book another flight.”
That’s when our anti-hero proposes a Coasian bargain,
I told the guy, “Look, I’ll put up with this if you give me $150 — that’s half the cost of this flight and that would compensate me enough for the circumstances.”
He instantly agrees, pulls out cash and pays me. He even told me he appreciated it.
Reports are – unsurprisingly – that other passengers didn’t approve of this one bit. But was there anything wrong with this?
I gave the guy a valid option to stay on the flight and I was compensated for literally having only 75% of my seat max (let alone the feeling of a person’s body pressed against you involuntarily). A win-win. He wasn’t angry at all, if anything he seemed quite relieved we could work it out privately.
The awkward thing here from my perspective is that he reports creating the situation where the man is being asked to pay for a second seat in the first place. He’s offering a solution to a problem that in some sense he’s created. On the other hand, he’s getting less comfort than even coach provides on a long haul flight, shouldn’t he be compensation by the passenger taking away that comfort? And isn’t this a more reasonable solution than suing the airline?
It sucks to have to sit next to someone who limits your space. It’s not comfortable for them either. It’s tough to say they ought to spend more money to travel, but the scarce resource on a plane is space and it doesn’t seem unfair for each person to pay for the space they occupy.
Of course the number one thing that leads to passenger satisfaction with air traval is having an empty seat next to you — and you can guarantee it when booking your tickets.
Most people don’t know it but you can actually buy yourself two seats in coach if you wish. Southwest Airlines actually has the most favorable policy because passengers of size are supposed to, but as long as there are empty seats left on the flight the second seat cost will be refunded to them. They don’t define passengers of size so this is a trick anyone in theory could use.
Many folks on the l3ft had an anyuerism reading this.
Everyone else said “about freakin’ time.”
Can you be your own companion on a southwest ticket?
To anyone who has a problem with this, it is a perfect example of MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. If a passenger wants to sell part of his space, and another one wants to buy, and the airline doesn’t mind, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.
Who are you to object?
I believe Southwest uses the term “Customer of Size”, because the abbreviation for “Passenger of Size” has negative connotations.
I buy full seats not less. If they don’t fit they don’t sit. I am happy to have the flight attendant call on the gate agent. Hey if you know you are a obese and can’t fit buy 2 seats
Good for both of them. I wish other large people would recognize that they don’t have a right to other people’s assets. If you can’t fit in an economy seat, then buy a biz/first seat…or lose weight.
This is in line with the comments yesterday about the AA seats and their stupid idea to keep shrinking seat spaces! Again, Americans are BIG! We have more obese and overweight people than any other nation and the problem is getting worse every year, airlines should be PROACTIVE in looking toward a future of this becoming a bigger issue…think fights, lawsuits, etc. If it requires charging more for a “plus sized seat” then do it, but at the least, HAVE THEM AVAILABLE….and yes, they’ll be issues where non-obese folks book them to have more space but that can be dealt with. We put chemicals in our foods which cause people to gain weight….I swear I think corn syrup is made by the devil himself….and then wonder why so many people from babies to elderly are overweight…it took the fashion industry four decades to catch up, they finally realized a gazillion dollar potential market…maybe airlines will catch on next.
This why everyone needs to always put down the armrest when they take their seat.
I understand the beauty of letting the free market sort this out, I love the free market, but I presume those who have a problem with this realize the can of worms this could open up. Imagine a future where some jacknut says “I’m offended by your cologne, but for $50, I won’t complain to the stew.” Or people who suddenly discover they are allergic to peanuts when your 5 year old pulls out a PB&J, but they won’t complain for $150 extortion money.
As for the large pax buying 2 tix, no question that SWA has by far the best policy. Thumbs up.
I can still remember my first go round with purchasing 2 tix. I was booking a last minute (night before) flight from Florida to California, and UA prices dropped to $250. When I saw that the biz tix were $800, my first thought was: why don’t I buy two coach seats for $500? Two coach seats are bigger than one J seat anyway.
There was a time a LONG time ago when passengers were weighed before being allowed to board and on some small planes/helicopters passengers over a certain weight aren’t allowed.
THE MAIN ANSWER IS THAT AIRLINES SHOULD ENFORCE A SIZE/WEIGHT LIMITATION and make oversize passengers buy a second seat!!!! (of course I don’t know how it should be handled on the new “mini” seats since almost everyone might be oversize on these seats – if you’re over 6″ and can’t fit your knees, etc.)
As to other passengers complaining – did any of them offer to change seats to sit next to the larger person? If they didn’t – it’s none of their business!!!
Understand observers perceiving this was a fat-shaming shake down, but ultimately it really wasn’t. The skinny guy was given the power to kick the fat guy off the plane by the airline and came up with a compromise that caused the least amount of inconvenience to all parties. They should be commended, frankly, for handling this like adults instead of like the “I eat salads” lady. I’m just chuckling what the Venmo caption would’ve been if this guy didn’t have cash…
Years ago I flew in Y class in a middle seat LGA-PIT. The 2 guys on either side of me were so obese that their fat rolls spilled into my seat from both directions. Luckily I’m not big and it was only a 40 minute flight, but I still remember this horrible experience years later. I wish I’d thought of a creative solution like this!
If you buy two seats on Southwest, do you have to pay twice for earlybird check-in?
“They don’t define passengers of size so this is a trick anyone in theory could use.”
Incorrect. If you don’t look large enough Southwest will deny you the second seat.
“Limits your space” or “takes your space”? I don’t think they are the same.
Absolutely support this 100 percent. You buy a certain amount of space on a plane. Passengers are cargo. We weigh cargo and charge appropriately. Standard space is standard price. If you need more space you pay more. End of story. Go try asking Fedex to not upcharge for weight.
It is hard not to be a person of size, when the seats have shrunk to about 17 inches. I remember one time, I was sitting next to a muscle builder type with big biceps and hairy arms. His biceps were touching my bare skin for the whole flight. Not his fault, but Ick. Yucky. Euwe. Disgusting. Since then, I have always always always worn long sleeve flights when flying coach.
Generally, if an over-sized person sits in the seat next to me, if they TRY to stay in their seat, I shrug. I had a conversation with one flying to Hong Kong. He was flying to adopt an orphan. Capital guy, despite the fact that some of him was spilling over.
However, I have noticed, many over-sized think they deserve both seats, flop into your seat, eat smelly food, and give you a look, like don’t you dare. Well, I do not complain, but I am not happy.
The funny thing is, that old US cross country aircraft, used to have 18 inch seats with padding (but no plugs, wi-fi, or entertainment consoles), recline, and better legroom. There were much better seats than the new seats.
Do airlines always honor the extra seat you bought? If my gf and I wanted more space and bought 3 seats instead of 2 I’d be afraid they would try to seat someone there. We aren’t big but sometimes it would be nice to have the extra space.
Gary’s wrong. You cannot buy 2 seats. There are many times the airline has taken one seat from the person who bought 2 and given it to someone else
Is this the guy in the blue shirt? He doesn’t look THAT fat: certainly on the podgy side but hardly a real porker. I wouldn’t have complained.
It screams fake fake fake. I think the guy who posted on reddit made it up
@Other Just Saying, it was most likely the guy’s triceps you were touching, not biceps. Unless you were sitting with his arms wrapped around you.
If you’re touching me, you’re committing assault / battery. I may choose to give you an option to not be sued, or an option where I don’t defend myself.
Be grateful, or don’t touch other passengers.
I was in the middle seat on an Alaska Air flight from HNL to SEA many years ago. The passenger in the window seat was definitely “of size”. I managed to endure the 5 hr flight but contacted Alaska customer service when we got home. They gave me a credit of $150 toward a future flight.
@Jim. You are right. I stand corrected. I love sports, but never spent any time in a weight room.
@James What I wrote is official policy for each airline outlined in the linked post.
I think this was a good way to handle it. They handled it in a grownup way. No disrespect or anything. Very civil for an uncomfortable problem.
FYI Here is a post from an over-sized woman who provides insight on what it is like flying while fat.
https://wordpress.com/read/blogs/146015135/posts/316
It’s a touchy topic and Southwest’s policy is the way to go. A person of size gets the extra space for free when there is room and they pay a a fair price when there isn’t. And nobody else is forced to give up some of the space they paid for…
No mention of any other passenger who disapproved of the transaction being willing to trade seats and sit next to the large passenger. It seems many people just have morals of convenience.
Just appreciate the Coase reference. Also, to first poster…I’m a lefty that completely supports this exchange. Wish it happened more but one of the primary problems is the absence of (real or believed) well defined property rights. Namely, who should be paying whom
> Gary’s wrong. You cannot buy 2 seats. There are many times the airline has taken one seat from the person who bought 2 and given it to someone else.
You can, but it’s a bit of a pain, and agents don’t always provide you with instructions. The systems for booking these flights don’t have a concept of a passenger with two seats, so instead it’s actually two seats with the second seat usually booked as LASTNAME/EXST. You have to check that seat in at special assistance because it’s not a real person, and then you have to also get that seat’s boarding pass scanned when you get on the aircraft. If you don’t do that, then sometimes treated as if that seat didn’t check in or board, even though that’s nonsense.
I can fit fine into a seat, but on a particularly long flight, I’ll sometimes buy the middle for more space. The only issue I’ve ever had is that a flight attendant put someone in that seat in the middle of a flight. I showed her the boarding pass for the seat and she moved that person to a different seat.
@Bill. Very interesting. However, I have a question. In your experience, did you get miles for both seats?
Gary,
Can’t help but ask, since you brought up Coasian bargain. Do you feel that this was a Pareto optimal solution for both parties?
To get the perspective of a large person here is a recent very well written article:
https://fluffykittenparty.com/2019/01/29/an-open-letter-to-thin-people-who-feel-infringed-on-by-fat-people-on-airplanes/
Gary – could you provide clarity on whether the passenger is in question is in the photo? Because dudes that size fly in economy all the time without issue.
There is a very interesting well written blog post entitled “An Open Letter to Thin People Who Fell Infringed on by Fat People on Airplanes” by Lindag of Fluffy Kitten Party. I would include the link to the site but that appears to block posting my comment.
As someone who consistently has to sit next to fatties, I suggest this should be handled like baggage. Give an option to indicate you’ll require extra room during the ticket purchase process (e.g. check a box “I am a passenger of size and require more space”). At the airport, have sizers. If your hips don’t fit, you have to pay extra to get onboard and you can be reassigned seats.
Totally fake. Who carries $150 cash on them?
If the seat doesn’t fit you must acquit (and disembark)
Gary, I truly don’t understand this part of your post:
“The awkward thing here from my perspective is that he reports creating the situation where the man is being asked to pay for a second seat in the first place. He’s offering a solution to a problem that in some sense he’s created.”
In what sense did the person whose seat was usurped “create” that problem? By not enjoying ceding 1/3 of his seat involuntarily?
To those asking, of course the photo is a stock photo and not actually a picture of the person in question.
I never really understood why some aircraft haven’t been built slightly larger for wider seats. If you have 6 seats across would adding another 2-3 inches/12-15 inches overall, really increase the cost of the aircraft production/operating (fuel burn)?
I’m a bigger guy and for me seat width has always been more welcome than pitch. Id’ much rather have a 19/20 inch wide seat instead of 4-5 more inches of leg room in a premium economy seat. I think having even that small space increase would drastically improve passenger comfort.
On wide bodies, i can see were this may be an issue since airlines may opt for an extra seat in the middle of the plane over passenger comfort. However, seeing as narrow body aircraft have and continue to, take over many 6 hour+ routes from wide body aircraft, i think just starting there would be a huge industry improvement.
While i haven’t flown it yet, i believe this is one of the things that makes the a220 so popular, it’s wider economy seating.
One final seat thought, I completely understand the desire to have thin seat padding to fit more seating in. However, why make the bottom pad so thin as well? Surly it can’t effect the seat distance, so why not have a nice, thick and comfortable cushion to sit on, and much thinner padding in the seat back?
I am a “lefty” too and have zero problem with this. I think it is unfortunate that we have an obesity problem but until airlines step up and fix seats to fit the ACTUAL average passenger size instead of some mythical unicorn of a person, or define simple solutions to deal with overweight passengers (such as easily having a two-seat buying option), OR enforce policies without other passengers having to complain….. this is going to be an issue. These guys handled it. It was their issue to handle.
It does seem odd to me that cargo in the hold on a plane is weighed and charged for transport based on size. and checked bags have weight limits, and but not passengers. I mean it all costs a certain amount of fuel to move. Plus, just changing seat sizes to cram more people in doesn’t actually change the size of people to fit. Lots of weirdness here on the part of airlines.
I’d also be curious to know what the airlines use as the average weight per passenger when looking to make sure regional jets aren’t overweight. I’d love to then compare that to the “average” size they use to decide how small they can make seats. I am going to go out on a limb and guess they are not the same. Anyone know?
The people above who’ve said you can’t be guaranteed two seats even if you purchased them unless you are clearly enormous are right. I’ve had Southwest question my need for a second seat on occasion, and at 5’2″ and 240 lbs I’m not svelte (and overlap into the next seat by about an inch, although technically I can get the armrest down). And there are plenty of cases out there where a person who bought two seats purely for comfort has found the airline refunding the price of seat #2 and placing a standby passenger in it. That’s why unless I’m forced to fly Southwest (which has only Economy class seating), I fly First Class only these days. it’s not much more expensive, the service is marginally better, and I don’t have to worry about how to book it correctly or whether I’ll have to quarrel with the airline to keep my extra space.
And to the uninformed comment re cologne. Fragrance causes migraines and that can cause strokes. So make light all you want. Just hope that no one you love gets afflicted with this medical problem.
Most of what @Penny is nonsense, deflecting the cause of presumably her obesity to the corn syrup boogieman (it’s the new excuse taking over “glandular problem”). Every overweight person has the ability to lose the weight through diet and exercise…simple fact. You chose the lifestyle.
Having said that, I do agree that airlines should accept reality, and offer a new product, a “plus seat”, that is wider but with no extra legroom…so 4 in a row instead of 6. Put it right behind first class.They can charge 50% extra and it will be revenue neutral. It’s cheaper for plus sized customers to pay 50% more than to buy two seats. I think it would be a win win to install one or two rows in that configuration.
@S lol, “uninformed” huh? Show me the peer reviewed study that proves this, otherwise take off your tinfoil hat.
I call baloney to this story.
I’ve seen passengers who had bought two economy seats who had to fight very hard to retain them, even after scanning the extra boarding pass correctly. Airline attendants will not only try to seat standby passengers in the extra seat, but they will also try to exchange the extra seat with someone else to seat a family together, putting the extra seat you paid for in another row or on the opposite side of the aisle to where you are sitting.
Yes touchy subject. But most large people cause their own problem. And it is getting worse today in US and UK. Obesity on the rise. Big time. While seat size shrinking. I always complain to an airline where I have suffered someone’s body in my seat. And seriously cramping my space. Always rewarded miles for this from airline as compensation. . Airlines have “large” size rules but never enforce them.