You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
The norms have changed but passengers don’t always know this in advance, which makes for a stark clash of expectations. One United passenger was shocked to learn that nobody would be permitted to spread out into wide open seats on a recent flight: the poors stay packed in the poors section.
@united flight to our mission trip to Honduras from Houston. 3 hour duration. Most of the plane is empty. The attendant told us that they won’t let anyone change seats for less than $86/each even though the plane is nearly empty.
What would you do? Pay the money or stay out in… pic.twitter.com/kKNrl3xK4z
— Stacy Ruth (@Stacy_Ruth_) September 11, 2025
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating, for a little while longer! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative. Their plane, their rules, and they can change the rules even after many decades of forming passenger expectations.
Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for. It is against the airline rules, not theft, but it is still not allowed if a flight attendant decides not to allow it.
Won’t anyone think of the corporate profits?! The precious stock buybacks?! *clutching pearls*
The Gestapo is alive and well at the airlines. You vill NOT change seats und you vill LIKE IT!!!!
If you paid for a Basic Economy seat and did not pay for a seat assignment then why should you be allowed to jump to another seat? That’s the whole purpose of BE. Get a dirt cheap fare, one that the airline is most surely losing money on, in exchange for restrictions.
You should be allowed to jump from the bleachers to a box seat at a sporting event? A better seat at a concert?
As a pilot, I would be concerned with Weight&Balance. Maybe United doesn’t care.
However, they do care about Greed and on occasion they also Break Guitars,
Are you running mayor of New York? It is 100% the airlines right to charge for the seat. To say you can take it for free if it is available is absurd. Why not just make a cage match, last person sitting wins.
If your point is because it can’t be sold it, then taking it is not stealing. You’re wrong because it can still be sold – and it is stealing.
In the example you gave the flight attendant is literally charging for an upgrade – so yes it can still be sold – your own example defies your logic.
Does anyone care about whether it is just an airline policy or some moral imperative? No, not all airline rules are based on moral imperative.
*sigh* can we please not vilify flight crews on here for like a day… the flight attendants aren’t charging… the airline is. It’s not like the purser is taking cash bribes to switch seats. No, they’re doing their jobs, and often enforcing rules that they themselves don’t even support or agree with.
A “mission” to Honduras…..this ought to tell you what kind of people they are. I’m sure they haggled the bag fee at the ticket counter too. You know, the whole “God’s work” thing.
Professional grifters.
That empty a flight, I would be in a row in the center section across all the seats sound asleep. Not paying $86 to sleep in the prone position. I’d make them wake me up!!
No one has seen the actual dispatch paperwork for the flight! The dispatch paperwork takes into account the average summer & winter weight of passengers. It then calculates the weight and balance of the aircraft based on the occupied seats. The aircraft must be within the allowable takeoff weight, the center of gravity for takeoff, in flight and landing and the allowable landing weight. With swept wing aircraft, the center of gravity will change as the flight progresses. Regional jets are even more susceptible to this problem! Believe it or not, in the cockpit we can tell as passengers and cabin crew move up and down the aisles as the pitch trim indicators move. I’ve actually seen an international flight go out with numerous “first class” seats open where no upgrades were allowed due to the center of gravity issue caused by cargo distribution! Unless anyone heard the captain tell the cabin crew about the CG/weight issue OR has the paperwork in hand, I’d be reluctant to criticize. The cabin crew is not required to explain this to the passengers but being rude about the seat swaps, that’s an issue.
Your headline places blame on the flight attendant. The FA is simply doing their job. This is airline policy not some FA on a power trip.
Welp, I knew the day would finally come. I agree with @George Romney.
Their airlines are selling a product at different price points with different levels of service and amenities. If you didn’t pay for it and they don’t offer a complimentary upgrade you have no right to it.
That like saying “well, I ordered ground chuck, but since there’s wagyu left in the kitchen I’m entitled to that.”
You are NOT entitled to anything you are unwilling to pay for when dealing with for-profit businesses that make their money off of what you pay.
You are absolutely wrong there. For the economy and Preferred seating customers are asked to purchase those seats if they are not Premier or higher. Why should passengers get something by either earning or paying for it. Yes, the airlines do at times put people in those seating area, only if those are the only seats available on a FULL flight. Even at time of check-in if you want to change your seat to Economy plus, or Preferred seating you WILL be charged for those premium seating areas. So Gary Leff your argument is absolutely off the point and wrong.
United flight attendants are required to carry a United Cell phone at all times and are under constant surveillance. They cannot give complimentary drinks. The food is catered by the seat paid…. I have a good friend that is 70: and still flying 33 years combined Pan Am and United. If the pilots ask for crew bus or hotel drinks she tells them I will leave my first class gallley open as late as I can.
If I’m in Y+, I am well aware every seat around me may be taken. If the last BE (or regular Y) pax checks in and the only unassigned seat is next to me, we’ll OK, I lost that lottery. But, if there is also a middle seat near the lavs, put them there. If the BE pax tries to upgrade and take the empty seat next to me, I want the FA to intervene.
Why should airlines care about it? First, people would be more likely not to pay the extra $ for Y+ if they think they can get it for free. Second, my flight is less enjoyable if the BE pax sits next to me. I expect the airline to care more about me, as I paid more. Part of the deal they (should) offer me is they won’t move Y pax to Y+ unless they pay or Y is full. I might get an empty seat next to me. I probably won’t, but that shouldn’t be because of a moving pax.
I paid for a charity event. Unbeknownst to me, there were door prizes, and I won $100. A person with this mentality, who didn’t attend the event, steals the money. That’s OK, they reason, as I had no expectation of winning the money, so I have no reason to object if it’s taken from me.
Bottom line: it costs the airline $ if moving is allowed. Any game theorist worth their salt will tell you that, in a single-period world, a mover costs the airline nothing. But, we live in a multi-period world where allowing the mover to upgrade can affect the subsequent behavior of the mover (I got a free upgrade today, why buy one next time?). And it costs me. Will I pay for Y+ in an airline that allows self upgrades or one that doesn’t. Letting pax move makes your airline less likely to get my business.
It is fair that people who buy Basic Economy that does not include seat selection have to sit in whatever seat the airline assigns them. There are Economy Plus and Preferred seats that other people pay for because they think it is worth it. So if you did’t choose to pay, why should you be able to self upgrade for free? When I have paid and there is an empty seat beside me, I have hated it when airlines allow someone to self upgrade into that empty seat.
first,
it says volumes about UA’s pricing if they can fill the very back of the plane but not the front half of coach.
Sure, not every market supports full fares and a full cabin but there is something that simply does not look right when a plane is not somewhat evenly loaded.
second, it is reasonable for customers to be able to stretch out. If you price discriminate so much that everyone is in one cabin all squashed up, the airline is doing it wrong.
and third, Gary is absolutely right that UA’s hypocrisy is on full display given that they have huge business class cabins (compared to AA and DL) and show their upgrade list on their public website (not just for passengers on the flight).
If UA wants to make a deal about controlling the upgrades, then they need automation (which they are supposed so good at) to have the gate agent moved people that are not in the same record to take advantage of more space EVEN IF IT MEANS UPGRADING someone else to those empty extra legroom economy seats.
Yes, changing seats does impact weight and balance but if UA wants to spend time upgrading people, then their gate agents should be given the power to look at a seat map and move people around if 1/3 of the plane is empty
“Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”
So if a First Class seat is open, can I just take it? I won’t eat or drink anything. The airline hasn’t given anything up. This logic is ridiculous.
By the logic here of some if I’m sitting in a $20 bleacher seat and spot an empty seat in a skybox that runs $500 I should simply be able to get up, walk over to the skybox, plop my butt down and order a free cocktail. Buying a BE fare means you agree to take and stay in whatever seat the airline has assigned. It ain’t that hard to comprehend.
If you want the Economy Plus seat, pay for it or gain enough status that you get it at purchase like me. You don’t get anything free in life. Your seat on a plane is included.
If you didn’t pay for it. You don’t get it! Period.
The econmomy is doing well so rarely seats go empty but in case the economy turns and many seats are empty, passengers will get used to not paying and then taking them up after the door closes. That will suck for United.
I’m with United on this one. Sometimes it s a few dollars difference for short trip. Cough up. Airlines are cheaper than the train anyway. Have you seen the Amtrak fares on the NE corridor! and the damn thing breaks down every other day
If the crew wants to allow someone to move into the seat by me that I paid extra for specifically, then so be it. Saves me money as when I complain I’ll get something out of it. Even Frontier refunded me a seat fee.
The seats have a fee. If you do not want to pay–stay put. The same applies to concert seating, stadiums and other places with paid and assigned seating
Remarkably, the comments reveal that several people struggle to comprehend basic logic. Gary’s argument is spot-on and irrefutable, and those who disagree resort to unrelated rebuttals.
Pay for the seat you want.
Sorry, I usually agree with Gary, but in this case I don’t. (unless I misunderstand) If you choose NOT to pay for a better seat, or, if you have not EARNED that privilege, you should stay in the seat you paid for. Every time an exception is made, it devalues that which was earned and paid for by others. Don’t give away what I have paid for either by spending $18,000 per year of out right paying. If I am in coach, should I self upgrade to first?
Here we go again, the Air Police are always right.
Hey, look at all of those open seats down by the dugout…”Let’s move down there for free.”
Sure that’s going to work, pay or sit down in your seat.
I’d change seats as long as I remained in the cabin I purchased in a situation like this. People do it all the time on longer intl flights. It hurts literally no one and makes the flight more pleasant for EVERYONE, crew included. What are we even arguing about here?
@ 1990 — WE+BE+
I thought the most important factor of enjoyment of a flight is having an empty middle seat open next to them. If I’ve paid for premium economy, is it fair for someone who has a middle seat in economy to self-upgrade to the seat next to me? After I paid more for my seat in expectation of more comfort? Seems like the way to get an empty middle seat next to you would be to intentionally buy an aisle seat in the back, hoping the middle-seat holder would self-upgrade to a seat in front. I think Gary doesn’t understand these things since he’s always in business/first.
I do NOT agree with Gary – you get what you pay for. Why should people be able to self-upgrade simply bc the seat is empty? But what I want to know is – if people CAN self-upgrade, then WHO determines WHO gets to upgrade? Not everyone can move up, usually there aren’t that many open seats in Premium. So then who decides who can upgrade for free? First person to grab the seat gets it? Or is it “Lord of the Rings” and we battle for the seat? If you leave the seat to use the lavatory, can I then take it from you, since it isn’t truly your seat to begin with?
Bottom line – you want Premium, you pay for Premium.
Weight and balance and fairness to whoever chooses last minute to pay extra due to how empty it is…all the reason Gary is wrong.
But I’ve heard one case where everyone was free to spread out: On a super long haul 789 when E & E+ was less than 1/3 occupied. FAs let people go wherever they wanted, even into E+. Well, when everybody got 3 seats to lie down, “extra leg room” became irrelevant and worthless.
Hey Gary, I asked you this once before and you never answered. If you were sitting in a quiet corner of the the United Club would it be okay if I snuck into the Club and sat in the empty chair next to you and talked loudly on my phone. According to your convoluted logic it would not be stealing because the seat next to you was empty. Please respond.
“…okay if I snuck into the Club and sat in the empty chair next to you and talked loudly on my phone.”
What would be the monetary loss in this situation?
I agree with @This comes to mind says.
I do miss the old days when all coach seats were the same and planes were not full and you could switch seats to one with an empty middle or row and the FA’s encouraged it, but that model is gone. The new model is seats are different and if you want the extra space pay up, and if I have to pay for it I expect people who don’t pay for it to stay in the back to give those of us who have paid extra a better experience, which is what we expected when we paid extra for the Y+ seat. If pax who are in Y- want to move to a different seat in Y-, I am okay with that, but not with letting them move to a better part of the cabin that people have paid extra for to get a better experience.
It’s no different than concert tickets. You pay more for a better seat or you accept what you pay for. Life is not a perpetual entitlement.
@ Win Whitmire
I’m not challenging your comment but I am confused by it.
I’m a recreational flyer, usually on JetBlue. As part of the booking process I need to select a seat. Depending on the fare purchased I either select from the open (no additional charge) seats or pay whatever the cost is for the seat I want. At no time have I ever been required (or even been asked) to disclose my weight. Although statistically unlikely, it is still theoretically possible that the seats on one side of the plane could have been purchased by heavier folks while the seats on the other side of the aisle were purchased by light and petit folks.
So in a system where passengers select their own seats but don’t disclose their weight, how does the Dispatch Paperwork account for this.
AFWIW, many of you are offering absurd comparisons to justify your arguments. There’s a huge difference between moving a couple of rows forward AFTER THE PLANE IS IN THE AIR and equating that to relocating to an open First Class seat. Similarly, if I’m at a stadium or arena event and there are unused seats in the general area, I suffer no guilt in moving to a different seat, especially if the view from my original seat is blocked by the person in front of me. Comparing that to moving to an open seat behind the dugout or one in a skybox is not only a bit of a stretch, it undermines your entire argument.
As I am both an infrequent commenter and only a recreational flyer, I understand that offering my two-cents will most likely result in a pixilated tarring and feathering from the regulars on this site.
Here is the problem I have. You may an extra $86 and say your unbound flight us delayed… for “safety ” reasons. You end up on a later flight stuck in the middle and you are NOT getting a refund on your $86 seat fee.
With such poor customer regulations for delayed and canceled flights I find it hard to pay for the seat I want unless I build in a 3 hour connection.
Sit in the seat you paid for.
Although if the airline upgrades you free, congrats. (It should – all but the most jaded flyer.wkll brag about their free upgrade and good word of mouth is always a plus, and someone who enjoys a better seat might even pay for it next time to guarantee they get the more luxurious accommodations.)
American greed at its ‘finest’. And it’s defended by stupid Americans as if it’s some God given commandment. What a pathetic nation.
De-regulation of the airlines has allowed them to diddle their customers as much as they want. In addition to the every varying price for a ticket, the airlines have perfected the art of charging extra for services that previously were included in the price of a ticket. Next will be and extra charge for access to the clean toilet.
And we’ve allowed it to happen.
@Maureen chaves – they can, at least in my experience. I had multiple free G&T’s on a UK > US flight two years ago.
I am the type that will chat/flirt with the crew if they are up for it, that might have helped, and my Yorkshire accent 🙂
Does anybody else wish that we could go back to the days when passengers were People, not whiney entitled, rude people who want to make sure the entire plane knows they are IMPORTANT! And the days when Airlines did not want to turn you upside down to make sure they got every last dime in your pocket. Flying was pleasant then, now you just pray you get to your destination unscathed.
I would pay the $86, then after reaching cruise, press the FA call button every 20 minutes to order another cocktail. When asked about it, I would say it’s what you asked me to pay for!
Later at the bar tonight, I’m going to ask the question: “if you are seated in 11A and 11C is taken, but 11B is empty, would you feel you are worse off if someone upgrades to 11B?” My prediction is 100% yeses. Why is this simple fact ignored by so many here? So, yes there is a cost to the airline of such a self upgrade: 11A and 11C are pi$$Ed off.
Regarding this sentence: “Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”
Let’s say I arrive at BWI (my airport) from vacation. I’m in the terminal and there is a flight going somewhere and the flight has empty seats. Should I be allowed to take one of the “open seats” and say it’s “not stealing?” And… does this mean that passengers who paid for the flight should not be mad because they still got exactly what they paid for? Carry on only so no issues with an unclaimed bag on the carousel. Maybe have a new fare category — there is “employee non rev” and “passenger non rev.”