A frustrated American Airlines elite flyer is complaining that he can’t get upgraded, while pilots fly first class. And his conclusion is that he should switch to Delta – where unbeknownst to him, only 13% of first class seats go to upgrades.
Platnuim pro on @AmericanAir but still cant get upgraded to first because 2 pilot’s are sitting in 2 of the first class seats. bout to eye up delta real soon. pic.twitter.com/Knbvpvu5jF
— JOHNNY "DELUXE" TOWN (@4EverEboy) December 31, 2024
Upgrades have gotten nearly impossible on most airlines, but a massive increase in premium seats that airlines will be offering could shift that dynamic.
One small element that’s crowding out elite upgrades is that pilots now sometimes take priority over passengers. While United prompted this by adding this for pilots in 2020, American Airlines changed its policy with their 2023 pilot contract. For the first time, their deadheading pilots receive upgrades ahead of customers to available first class seats at the gate.
Officially, in American Airlines computer systems, these pilots are coded with a higher priority even than top status Executive Platinum and even ConciergeKey members. Here’s the full detail, from an internal memo, on how pilot priority for first class upgrades works now at American Airlines.
Unsold first class seats now go to employees who are not piloting an aircraft between segments on a trip they’re working. That’s different than commuting to and from their base if they live in a different city than where they’re assigned to start and end their trips.
This is broadly similar to a benefit that United pilots won four years ago.
In fall 2020, after the first round of taxpayer subsidies to airlines ran out, Delta and Southwest didn’t furlough anyone. American and United did. But United didn’t want to furlough pilots. They need to keep flying in order to stay current and it’s costly and time-consuming to run pilots through simulators and get them takeoffs and landings.
United wanted to spread out the limited amount of flying they were doing across their pilots. To get the union to agree to this (yes, it’s an odd world where the company has to give something to the union to avoid furloughs), one of the concessions was that United pilots would have top upgrade priority for available first class seats at the gate.
Some readers said ‘this is business travel’ so pilots deserve it, but most companies don’t pay for first class on domestic travel, and certainly not companies like American Airlines that lose money in what should be their best quarter (their third quarter loss was due to cash payments… to pilots).
I do think it’s a bad look when customers never see an upgrade, but they see pilots clearing ahead of them. I don’t blame the pilots at all. They’d rather have first class than coach, and they negotiated it as part of their contract. The problem lies with management, whose priorities I see as off, and who have failed to keep up with demand for premium products so upgrades have become exceedingly rare – even as they promote those upgrades as a benefit of regularly buying tickets with the airline and spending on their co-brand credit cards.
Pay for your seat and you won’t have a problem, whining grifters.
I don’t agree “problem lies with management” The pilots are supposedly professionals and understand business. They are the ones who prioritized themselves over the frequent fliers who pay their salaries. Pilots in the USA are paid way more than pilots in other countries. And still are never happy bitter people. Shame on them
Several things –
1. As PP he likely wouldn’t get upgraded even if pilots weren’t in seats. Many EP don’t make it
2. I am fine with pilots dead heading (going to fly a plane) getting a first class seat ahead of any level of frequent flyer. I want my pilots as relaxed and comfortable as possible.
3. If it matters either pay for first or buy a discounted upgrade in advance (which may require the loser to actually spend some of his money instead of only flying OPM). These are free upgrades. Be happy if you ever get one and pay for the seat if it matters
Delta has put their flight crews in FC (that are deadheading) for over 59 years old news.
I spent over $400,000 on my credit card to get to the top of the upgrade list. Only to find out that the best seats were being diverted to employees. Do you honestly want your best customers to detest the pilots who have now finagled these seats away from them? What kind of restaurant would remain in business if they gave their best tables to off-duty employees and stuck their best customers in the back? This is a bad business move for both the airline and the pilots union. Shame on them both. Thanks for throwing us under the plane.
Pilots should NEVER have priority over paying customers for any upgrade. Frankly, the upgrade isn’t that special, and the pilots should know that. Second, the comfort of customers should always come first. The pilots wouldn’t have their high paying jobs without the customers. They won’t melt sitting in coach.
Sorry, we are loyal to an airline and what do we get? seat we paid for and little hope of an upgrade- I have HIGH status and I am often #33 or #21 really? I don’t expect to get upgraded often at all, but putting employees in the first class seats really takes away a big benefit of my loyalty-
“ Pay for your seat and you won’t have a problem, whining grifters.”
Two problems with this argument:
1. The pilot didn’t pay for that seat.
2. The customer who didn’t get upgraded DID pay for that seat in previous business with the airline.
The title is misleading. The real title should be “Passengers Seeking Free Upgrades are placed lower in priority than deadheading pilots.”
If we want to sit in FC, we buy it. Mr. Ramsell spent 400k on his CC, but now sees it might not get him upgraded. If you have that kind of money I’m not sure why you don’t buy it and save yourself from grief. And as Chopsticks says, You won’t melt in coach.
I agree with AC. I’m ok with deadheading pilots getting a better seat.
The airlines and hotels have trapped many into getting free upgrades. That was fine for a while, but now there are websites on how to get the best deal and people spend 400k to get a “chance” for a better seat/hotel room or a free substandard breakfast. As Gary has posted, many hotels are well over 50% elite staying at their properties. At that percentage, we’re not special. I only use my airline status for free checked bags. I’d rather use points for a ticket or pay the money and not fight for an upgrade. Life’s too short and I’ve figured out I can’t take it with me.
@BH: AA agreed to this provision in the pilot contract and I can assure you they got something for it. The pilots paid for it. And they only get this under deadheading provisions where they are being moved by the company. This isn’t pleasure travel for them.
Let’s be honest. We’re trying to get something for free and don’t like it when we don’t get it.
I’ve actually seen Southwest pilots in uniform board early and take the crappiest seat instead, more than once
I suggest he move to Europe where you have to pay for an upgrade 🙂
I see it usually on trunk routes where the airline needs to get a pilot to another hub. But again, if being in first class is that important to you then pay ahead of time to be in first class.
You can tell from the comments who has airline status and who doesn’t. Status isn’t earned, it is purchased and the reason those of us with status have it, is generally because we are business people who understand that our customers are why we are in business and generally why we need to fly as often as we do. Without our customers, we do not have a business! However when flying we do have a choice and many of us are demonstrating that by flying on other airlines rather than being ‘loyal’ to AA. When enough customers with status exercise that choice, this FC upgrade for pilots will no longer be an issue as AA won’t need FC seats as they won’t need as many planes…. nor will they need those pilots either!
Gary should add polls so we can vote with who we agree with. I’m with Donald Ramsell.
The entitlements of a 50 year old lure for business are dead. The business has changed in 50 years and 40% load factors and government regulation are no longer the norm. You want to fly first class, buy it. It was never promised, look at the rules you agreed to. You are buying a service to fly from point A to B. Go free agent and the savings will be your reward…. If you don’t think the other perks provided don’t offer value (free checked bags, priority boarding, point earning, etc…).
This isn’t pilot commuting, vacation travel or the spouse on a trip; it is deadheading and a condition of their contract to provide adequate rest to be alert in command.
People seem to forget that airline employees do NOT get any miles or status when they travel for business. The airline I work it only allows for me to book Y class and list for an upgrade, regardless of flight length. I never will see miles or status other business traveler get…
I am fine with this. Rested pilots are good. And, as the memo states, pax who have already cleared the upgrade list will not be downgraded. And elite upgrades often if not always clear early. And if you are en elite you are already in a good seat. So live with it, or pay the piper.
I gave up most loyalty to any particular airline several years ago. The FF programs have been systematically devalued to the point where the mileage is almost worthless. And the perks associated with top tier FF status are offered as perks but almost never available. That is not only regular upgrades but also the actual allocation of seating inventory to use with FF miles. Also, and most egregious of all is the inability to use systemwide upgrades. Those are arguably the most coveted benefit, and the airlines almost never let you use them. The only tangible benefit remaining is early boarding. It’s just not worth being loyal. I now just fly whatever makes the most sense for the trip I am planning. If I want an upgraded cabin, I pay for it.
It’s contractual . Get over it . Buy a ticket .
Just flew Singapore’s longest routes JFK-SIN-EWR on their a359-ULR. Last row of the forward business class cabin two middle seats (17D&F) is set aside for crew rest, often for the second set of pilots.
What a shame for the SilverKris members who bid for upgrades from Premium Economy (recliner seat) to Business (lie-flat), but did not get the better seats because of the pilots.
My dear friends, for an 18+ hour flight, please, let the pilots enjoy a little rest, ideally in the lie-flat. I see nothing wrong there.
If you want First/Business, buy it. And even if you buy it, set low enough expectations that if the flight is cancelled, oversold, or your seat is changed, that you can live.
Some of us have no restraint anymore. How do I know this? Because a few of you often cannot help but call Gary and other commenters silly names. I, however, enjoy your insults. Feed me.
@Hugh M – I will put my travel record against your any day. I have around 8 million actual miles over 40+ years and am lifetime elite on DL, AA and UA. Now retired and a free agent but still travel extensively (3 weeks in Asia coming up next month). Your statement that “you can tell from the comments who has airline status and you doesn’t” is ridiculous. As stated I not only have status but guaranteed for a lifetime based on my travel and I’ve been at the very top of most programs over time. However, just because I have status and qualify for upgrades doesn’t make me a clueless whiner that thinks they are a given or ignores the basic economic model of airlines. Trust me the problem isn’t that pilot get upgraded when they dead head (a very small percentage of seats) but the fact airlines have gotten very good at monetizing premium seats and not many upgrades are available. Then you have the inflation of number of elites (I flew in the 80s and early 90s they being a Royal Medallion on Delta actually meant something) and it is no surprise there are few upgrades. The world has changed and it will NEVER go back. Accept the fact you almost certainly won’t get upgraded. If that is the only thing making you loyal to an airline (which BTW is a strange comment – I was NEVER loyal to an airline but flew whomever had the most non-stops from the cities I’ve lived in) then change. At a minimum get over yourself and quit acting so entitled. Yes you “paid” for status with all your activity but that doesn’t get you much in 2025 from any airline.
Giving unlimited free upgrades to elites was one of the worst decisions US carriers ever made as it led (quite predictably) to the cheapening of the J experience. After all, when you’re giving something away for free, what incentive is there to improve or maintain the product?
Gene,
I don’t believe that Delta upgrades any employees ahead of revenue customers standing by for an upgrade. and if DL has done what AA is now doing and UA gave its pilots during the pandemic, then why is there not so much more noise from DL passengers?
as for the arguments that some make for revenue customers to just buy tickets, it is precisely that the airlines – whichever of them upgrade employees for any reason ahead of paying customers – negotiated a benefit that costs some revenue customers something. Loyalty programs have included some type of upgrade benefit as long as they have existed JUST AS unions have been able to get some benefits and the company has costed upgrades as part of the negotiations.
neither benefit – for paying customers or pilots is “free”
The issue, as Gary, notes, is that these airlines made the conscious decision to allow employees – regardless of the reason for their travel – to bump a paying customer.
as for the argument about the pilot being more rested in premium cabins, they flew coach for years. Feel free to provide some scientific evidence that a pilot can’t be properly rested in coach vs. first class.
And deadheading does count toward pilot duty time for most if not all US airlines so it is not like fly as a passenger and then fly 8 hours of flights even domestically. Most US pilot contracts do not allow a pilot to work a flight over 8 hours and deadhead to/from that assignment.
As for SQ, most widebody aircraft have crew rest facilities off the main passenger deck not just for pilots but also for flight attendants. Some airlines allow their employees to take passenger seats while other airlines – at least on some aircraft – require that crew rest be taken in the crew rest module because the airlines installed it for that purpose, with the location of the crew rest module on the aircraft often part of negotiations with the union.
I am, regrettably, EP on AA, 1K on UA and Diamond on DL (same for 2025):.I got a total of 8 upgrades in 2024. Even using the Plus Points on UA I only had 3 additional upgrades. Using the regional and global certificates from DL I was only able secure 5 upgrades. It’s crazy. This year despite living in a heavily AA market, I’m going to focus on UA. The pre boarding perk is highly valuable. The AA perks are worthless.
I think I was beside the “elite-complainer” in the MCE seats recently. The first time I have ever had anybody complain about the pilot’s sitting in First Class. I told him about the pilot union contract that created the deadhead seat in FC but he wasn’t hearing any of it…he went on and on the whole flight.
DFW-SAN if I recall…
LOL, 1990- but really apples and oranges for the debate above. SQ chose to turn down some additional revenue (the upgrade fee from PE to Business is significant) in order to have better rested pilots. Not displacing people upgrading for free at all.
I am surprised though that there were no empty business class seats on that flight. 12 years top tier krisflyer elite, walked through many a completely empty business class, never got a free upgrade. If you are going to sell milk, you can’t give the cow away for free.
Pretty sure delta, United, and American all have relatively similar policies.
You people are complaining you’re not getting something for free.
Flying is fatiguing. Why do you want FC? Because it’s BETTER. You get to your destination way more relaxed than if you had been in a middle seat in economy.
It’s the same for pilots. If a pilot is flying 2 or 3 flights in a day, do you want the pilot who arrived at work relaxed and rested, or the pilot who is not? Just think outside the box for a minute.
The next potential air disaster that happens, you want your pilot in 100% condition. Not exhausted from his/her deadhead
Pilots negotiated FC seats as part of their job.
If you pay for an FC seat with money, you can get one too.
No one is entitled to upgrades.
To all the triple-secret platinum gold constant flyers: Please quit complaining. There are much better things to complain about. If you want a FC seat, pay for it.
I understand the concern over free upgrades, but there is a bigger issue with this contract.
Paid customers also get bumped for pilots. There are many stories about this. This is such BS. It’s not like you are in a restaurant with heart set on salmon and they are out, so you need to have chicken. We pay for first class so we don’t get stuck in an awful economy seat, only to arrive at the airport and be told, ‘Too bad, so sad.” Airlines need to pay substantial penalties when they bump you into a different class. Better yet, don’t bump. Make the pilot wait for the next flight. Or save a seat instead of selling it, and make someone happy if it’s unused and they can upgrade someone.
This provision is decades in the making.
1. Over time the airlines significantly increased the amount that pilots were told to ride in the cabin as their job.
2. The coach experience in the USA has become absolutely miserable.
These provisions in the pilot contracts are fundamentally designed to discourage the airline from deadheading them so much in the cabin – and to put them instead to work in the cockpit – the job they were hired for.
In the vast majority of cases these pilots are occupying seats that were not purchased.
You want that seat? Buy it. First class has never been cheaper in real dollars.
“I want the pilot to be rested”…
So if F is sold out and the pilots have to sit in coach, are they now “dangerous” or “tired” pilots? Should they be removed from service? How about WN pilots?…..are they dangerous?
Those who have high status have made a pact with the airline……in exchange for your business, we will give you a fair shot at an upgrade. It’s not fair to put a thumb on the scale. The pilots union and the pilots they represent are overpaid scumbags.
All the more reason to take advantage of the paid upgrade offers up to and sometimes during checkin. The upgrade list is like playing roulette. I’ve known that for years.
@tim
Delta puts deadhead crews in FC. I wrote one sentence and you went on a rant which made me think of the song from Alan Parson titled Pyscho-babble.
Hint-most pilots do not like to deadhead. The nonstop questions and unsolicited conversations does not allow proper rest.
Were you hoping to be a pilot one day and lacked the skills or training?
Forget upgrades, I was involuntarily downgraded flying first out of LAX to Hawaii this December on a PAID ticket. They downgraded me and another woman (neither of us was traveling alone) because they had two dead-head (repositioining) pilots flying. The AA counter guy lied and said it was “two government officials” at first then caved. What was more fun is that the two pilots in first talked about it and one said “I feel bad for how this was handled” and the other said “I could care less, I told them I was not getting on this plane unless I am in first.” Don’t expect a purchased first class ticket is legit with AA…
@tim
A pax is not bumped if the seat was not theirs to begin with. What you write a a mixed bag of garbage. The regs limit how many hours they can fly and how long they can be on duty. DHD is part of duty. This has nothing to do with where a pilot sits for Flight time limitations and rest requirements: One or two pilot crews.
(a) No program manager may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time as a member of a one- or two-pilot crew if that crewmember’s total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed—
(1) 500 hours in any calendar quarter;
(2) 800 hours in any two consecutive calendar quarters;
(3) 1,400 hours in any calendar year.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight, when added to any commercial flying by that flight crewmember, may not exceed—
(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or
(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this subpart for the operation being conducted.
(c) No program manager may assign any flight crewmember, and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment, if that crewmember’s flight time or duty period will exceed, or rest time will be less than—
Normal duty Extension of flight time
(1) Minimum Rest Immediately Before Duty 10 Hours 10 Hours.
(2) Duty Period Up to 14 Hours Up to 14 Hours.
(3) Flight Time For 1 Pilot Up to 8 Hours Exceeding 8 Hours up to 9 Hours.
(4) Flight Time For 2 Pilots Up to 10 Hours Exceeding 10 Hours up to 12 Hours.
(5) Minimum After Duty Rest 10 Hours 12 Hours.
(6) Minimum After Duty Rest Period for Multi-Time Zone Flights
Why don’t the pilots just swap shirts so they don’t look like pilots? Then everyone is happy. Nobody even knows they are pilots. Or get them off the upgrade list (but still give them the seat) so people don’t feel like they were passed over.
@kurt
They usually have to fly a flight immediately after the one they are deadheading on. The work short would be wrinkled. Time and hassle is your answer.
Fitness for duty.
(a) Each flightcrew member must report for any flight duty period rested and prepared to perform his or her assigned duties.
(b) No certificate holder may assign and no flightcrew member may accept assignment to a flight duty period if the flightcrew member has reported for a flight duty period too fatigued to safely perform his or her assigned duties.
(c) No certificate holder may permit a flightcrew member to continue a flight duty period if the flightcrew member has reported him or herself too fatigued to continue the assigned flight duty period.
(d) As part of the dispatch or flight release, as applicable, each flightcrew member must affirmatively state he or she is fit for duty prior to commencing flight.
§ 117.7 Fatigue risk management system.
(a) No certificate holder may exceed any provision of this part unless approved by the FAA under a Fatigue Risk Management System that provides at least an equivalent level of safety against fatigue-related accidents or incidents as the other provisions of this part.
(b) The Fatigue Risk Management System must include:
(1) A fatigue risk management policy.
(2) An education and awareness training program.
(3) A fatigue reporting system.
(4) A system for monitoring flightcrew fatigue.
(5) An incident reporting process.
(6) A performance evaluation.
§ 117.9 Fatigue education and awareness training program.
(a) Each certificate holder must develop and implement an education and awareness training program, approved by the Administrator. This program must provide annual education and awareness training to all employees of the certificate holder responsible for administering the provisions of this rule including flightcrew members, dispatchers, individuals directly involved in the scheduling of flightcrew members, individuals directly involved in operational control, and any employee providing direct management oversight of those areas.
(b) The fatigue education and awareness training program must be designed to increase awareness of:
(1) Fatigue;
(2) The effects of fatigue on pilots; and
(3) Fatigue countermeasures
(c)
(1) Each certificate holder must update its fatigue education and awareness training program every two years and submit the update to the Administrator for review and acceptance.
(2) Not later than 12 months after the date of submission of the fatigue education and awareness training program required by (c)(1) of this section, the Administrator shall review and accept or reject the update. If the Administrator rejects an update, the Administrator shall provide suggested modifications for resubmission of the update.
Let me as you a fundamental question. If I’m a pilot working a 14 hour shift and I’m about to fly you across the country on my 4th leg of the day, do you want me deadheading in on a first class seat, or coming off a 3 hour sit in the middle seat of row 35 beside a screaming baby!?
Pilots are professionals, but we are also people and rest is important to peak performance. It’s one of the many reasons the U.S. Airline market is the safest in the world. The pilot upgrade program is about operational safety and efficiency.
Acclimated means a condition in which a flightcrew member has been in a theater for 72 hours or has been given at least 36 consecutive hours free from duty.
Airport/standby reserve means a defined duty period during which a flightcrew member is required by a certificate holder to be at an airport for a possible assignment.
Augmented flightcrew means a flightcrew that has more than the minimum number of flightcrew members required by the airplane type certificate to operate the aircraft to allow a flightcrew member to be replaced by another qualified flightcrew member for in-flight rest.
Calendar day means a 24-hour period from 0000 through 2359 using Coordinated Universal Time or local time.
Certificate holder means a person who holds or is required to hold an air carrier certificate or operating certificate issued under part 119 of this chapter.
Deadhead transportation means transportation of a flightcrew member as a passenger or non-operating flightcrew member, by any mode of transportation, as required by a certificate holder, excluding transportation to or from a suitable accommodation. All time spent in deadhead transportation is duty and is not rest. For purposes of determining the maximum flight duty period in Table B of this part, deadhead transportation is not considered a flight segment.
Duty means any task that a flightcrew member performs as required by the certificate holder, including but not limited to flight duty period, flight duty, pre- and post-flight duties, administrative work, training, deadhead transportation, aircraft positioning on the ground, aircraft loading, and aircraft servicing.
Fatigue means a physiological state of reduced mental or physical performance capability resulting from lack of sleep or increased physical activity that can reduce a flightcrew member’s alertness and ability to safely operate an aircraft or perform safety-related duties.
Fatigue risk management system (FRMS) means a management system for a certificate holder to use to mitigate the effects of fatigue in its particular operations. It is a data-driven process and a systematic method used to continuously monitor and manage safety risks associated with fatigue-related error.
Fit for duty means physiologically and mentally prepared and capable of performing assigned duties at the highest degree of safety.
Flight duty period (FDP) means a period that begins when a flightcrew member is required to report for duty with the intention of conducting a flight, a series of flights, or positioning or ferrying flights, and ends when the aircraft is parked after the last flight and there is no intention for further aircraft movement by the same flightcrew member. A flight duty period includes the duties performed by the flightcrew member on behalf of the certificate holder that occur before a flight segment or between flight segments without a required intervening rest period. Examples of tasks that are part of the flight duty period include deadhead transportation, training conducted in an aircraft or flight simulator, and airport/standby reserve, if the above tasks occur before a flight segment or between flight segments without an intervening required rest period.
Home base means the location designated by a certificate holder where a flightcrew member normally begins and ends his or her duty periods.
Lineholder means a flightcrew member who has an assigned flight duty period and is not acting as a reserve flightcrew member.
Long-call reserve means that, prior to beginning the rest period required by § 117.25, the flightcrew member is notified by the certificate holder to report for a flight duty period following the completion of the rest period.
Physiological night’s rest means 10 hours of rest that encompasses the hours of 0100 and 0700 at the flightcrew member’s home base, unless the individual has acclimated to a different theater. If the flightcrew member has acclimated to a different theater, the rest must encompass the hours of 0100 and 0700 at the acclimated location.
Report time means the time that the certificate holder requires a flightcrew member to report for an assignment.
Reserve availability period means a duty period during which a certificate holder requires a flightcrew member on short call reserve to be available to receive an assignment for a flight duty period.
Reserve flightcrew member means a flightcrew member who a certificate holder requires to be available to receive an assignment for duty.
Rest facility means a bunk or seat accommodation installed in an aircraft that provides a flightcrew member with a sleep opportunity.
(1) Class 1 rest facility means a bunk or other surface that allows for a flat sleeping position and is located separate from both the flight deck and passenger cabin in an area that is temperature-controlled, allows the flightcrew member to control light, and provides isolation from noise and disturbance.
(2) Class 2 rest facility means a seat in an aircraft cabin that allows for a flat or near flat sleeping position; is separated from passengers by a minimum of a curtain to provide darkness and some sound mitigation; and is reasonably free from disturbance by passengers or flightcrew members.
(3) Class 3 rest facility means a seat in an aircraft cabin or flight deck that reclines at least 40 degrees and provides leg and foot support.
Rest period means a continuous period determined prospectively during which the flightcrew member is free from all restraint by the certificate holder, including freedom from present responsibility for work should the occasion arise.
Scheduled means to appoint, assign, or designate for a fixed time.
Short-call reserve means a period of time in which a flightcrew member is assigned to a reserve availability period.
Split duty means a flight duty period that has a scheduled break in duty that is less than a required rest period.
Suitable accommodation means a temperature-controlled facility with sound mitigation and the ability to control light that provides a flightcrew member with the ability to sleep either in a bed, bunk or in a chair that allows for flat or near flat sleeping position. Suitable accommodation only applies to ground facilities and does not apply to aircraft onboard rest facilities.
Theater means a geographical area in which the distance between the flightcrew member’s flight duty period departure point and arrival point differs by no more than 60 degrees longitude.
Unforeseen operational circumstance means an unplanned event of insufficient duration to allow for adjustments to schedules, including unforecast weather, equipment malfunction, or air traffic delay that is not reasonably expected.
Window of circadian low means a period of maximum sleepiness that occurs between 0200 and 0559 during a physiological night.
[Doc. No. FAA-2009-1093, 77 FR 398, Jan. 4, 2012; Amdt. 117-1A, 77 FR 28764,
It’s interesting to note that UA removes two 757-200 seat map seats on some (all?) of its BOS-SFO flights without explanation. Yet the capacity still shows 16. Apparently they will sell 16 seats but not assign two. I suspect this has something to do with crew contracts. In the past, they would simply grey out these seats as reserved.
If pilots are exhausted after flying coach, maybe that’s a sign that coach shouldn’t be such a miserable experience.
Most of PP and PE seeking upgrades are buying basic economy tickets and then insisting on a free upgrade. AA is already too generous with upgrades as it is. Buy the class you want to fly in
PP and PE customer get 3 70lb bags for free and access to the Admiral’s club and free maincabin upgrades. They are doing OK. They are not the bread and butter of AA. Cry me a river.
Go to delta or UA. Please.
Gene
all your copy and paste doesn’t answer the basic questions which I and others raised.
DL puts crew members in first class but you haven’t provided proof that they do it AHEAD of revenue passengers on standby.
Feel free to provide the scientific evidence that sitting in coach is any more unsafe than sitting in first class. and given that these are still standby upgrade benefits even via a pilot contract for deadheading, is the airline contributing to an unsafe operation by asking a pilot to sit in coach EVEN ONE TIME? Of course not.
Upgrade benefits for pilots have value just like for customers in loyalty programs. It is the airline(s) that even allowed negotiations about pilot upgrades over revenue customers that is the problem.
Any airline that has failed to operate profitably in the last 3 years when virtually every single flight from anywhere to anywhere else is absolutely packed to the gills is run by complete incompetents.
Unions aren’t the problem. Upgrades for pilots aren’t the problem. The problem is that the coddled morons running American Airlines have their heads deeply embedded in their hindquarters and think they have the clearest view of anyone.
That’s obviously completely ridiculous for an airline to be so short sighted as AA was in negotiating their pilot contract, to put it mildly. The messaging and optic of prioritizing their staff members over PAYING CUSTOMERS for upgrades is just inane as staff members are not the ones giving a license to AA to be in business – AA’s customers are.
In any event, that’s only temporary, as AA will have to file for bankruptcy again soon, since they cannot make money, partly due to the greed of their pilots who don’t care about AA as a company and their employer, and these pilot benefit stupidities will go away during the bankruptcy process.
I have a major issue with any firm prioritizing it’s employees over it’s paying customers. I personally saw Bob Crandall (when he was CEO) give up his F seat to a paying customer on multiple flights.
Oh yea, funny thing, AA made their numbers and profits under Crandall’s watch.
Yes, Bob Crandall was a visionary, unlike the current management who tried to turn AA into what it currently is – a glorified low cost airline with a limited international network and no wide body aircraft capacity due to poor Covid era decisions by an un-visionary management team – so sad.
I see the issue as being an inadequate number of premium seats on most airlines. Increase the premium seats and the problem of few being available for upgrade fades to a memory.
The airlines and credit card companies sell us on doing business with them with the prospect of an upgrade that rarely happens. Rates down there with the class action lawyers who get you a 75 cent coupon in exchange for their $7 million legal fee.
As to most AA domestic First — yuck. I am AA Lifetime Platinum (2m miles, mostly international) which gets me — a plastic cup of water and some strange, repulsive snacks. Yes, I also got a system wide upgrade that never cleared on any of the flights I took. I eventually got the message and just bought my international business class lie-flat tickets from other carriers without concern about what turned out to be one-sided “loyalty”.
Holy smokes. Those were some long ones above here. Ctrl-C. Ctrl-P. Jeepers.
On a lighter note: Anyone recall Dr. Dao, the fellow from the Orient that literally got punched-the-F off that oversold United flight in order to make room for a crew that was deadheading?
I guess it can always be worse than merely not getting an upgrade because the pilots union negotiated better seats in their contracts.
Hope that guy got a massive payout for his troubles. United’s PR team even tried to sully his good name, but that backfired, too. Sometimes, gotta just pay up!
One of the weirdest things about living today has been the complaints and comparisons between generations. One of the things I’ve read is how the newer generations are much more compassionate and much more egalitarian, and shun elitism.
So I don’t know who’s doing all the complaining about not getting upgrades to first class all while being an elite flyer, but it doesn’t sound too compassionate or much shunning of elitism to me.
Fat Gary doing click-bait again lol
First, it’s only when a pilot is deadheading on his/her own metal, which means the pilot is being sent to another base to operate flights from there.
Second, it’s given, although underline RARELY, to ensure the pilot arrives, often off a long flight, well rested so that he/she can be safe operating flights for the rest of the day.
Third, if you want first class but don’t want to pay for it, then be happy when you get it as it’s a thank you gift for your loyalty.
And fourth, if you want first class, pay for it. Don’t get into all this BS trashing pilots, as you love to do while you sip your cheap cocktail, when we’re the ones keeping the operation running as we welcome you on our aircraft.
Oh and fifth, if you’re so entitled, why not be a real Elite and fly private?
When a pilot is to deadhead the seat is blocked out of the schedule months in advance. If you booked on fc ahead of them, you got it. If it is afterwards and there is seats available, you got it. If you are planning on a last minute upgrade, you might or might not get it depending on the long list of people doing just what you are.
Well the airlines can do anything they want with us. We are just sheeple
My take is that pilots are first in entitlement now. Since I don’t pay for the expensive seats and I am not entitled, I am glad that the pilots are getting better rest so that they can perform their jobs better. That could actually affect me.
Waa. Waa, Waa! Poor entitled crybabies. First they whine over wheel chair passengers and now they whine about a Pilot getting an upgrade they think they are entitled to. I would rather see that upgrade go to a Pilot any day so that they are well rested on their next trip. Whiners should just go sit down and suck their thumb and for heaven sake stop complaining about every little thing. These people are so annoying.
I owned and ran two customer facing businesses where customers were treated first employees treated second and I was third. Airlines turn this upside down. Management first employees second customers who pay both management and employees salaries are treated last. No wonder so many people hate Airlines as do I since Airlines management and their employees apparently don’t give a damn about who’s paying their salary.
@gene
Provide proof..what planet are you on? You can provide proof they do not.
You are like a kid looking to pick a fight and argue like a kindergartner.
@tim
I doubt you work for an airline. You would fail the MMPI and/or Hogan assessment. Your argumentative personality does not belong in the cockpit.
An customer upgrade is a benefit. A pilot upgrade is a contractual agreement with AA.
Those are the current rules. Why argue about it? Do you not have a life to attend to?
Choose where (AA, United, FC, coach) you want to spend your hard earned money.
Deadheading pilots has to be a fairly rare occurrence. The airline doesn’t want to pay pilots to sit in the back. When a pilot gets sick, or irregular operations changes to a trip itinerary are the most likely reasons for deadheading. Some deadheading is for a return to base trip when the crew arrives too late to fly the next segment, so reserve crew is assigned. A large international destination, such as London for AA may deadhead extra crew so that someone getting sick won’t cause a flight cancellation. But, in general, deadheading crew is relatively rare, and generally not the reason upgrades don’t clear.
So there are humans on the plane who are more important to the operation of the airline than the FF Elites? How very dare they!!
Get a grip.
I just flew America and they refuse to let me move to an empty seat in coach after take off.. Said it was a premium seat. I have status and get free upgrades to premium but the flight attendant didn’t want to hear it. Instead I got my one drink on a 5 hour flight as they crew played in their phones.
First preference: no upgrades to first (I paid, you pay)
Second preference: pilots before status holders (never saw a deadheading pilot being entitled, putting naked feet on bulkhead, or being an @$$. I’ve seen numerous upgraded pax doing bad things.
Blah, blah, blah! Status means nothing and you should not expect an upgrade.
If you want a FC seat, BUY one. Crews are only occupying status upgrades or free upgrades. This is just click bait. I would rather have my crew rested. Imagine, being called out last min to take a transcon to operate a flight back to the base and being stuck in the last row, center seat. Not sure I want to fly with that crewmember back to base. And they have long days in a metal tube.
Gary, you’re partly correct about United pilots getting this as part of the 2020 negotiations. First class for pilots started way back in 2000 when it was negotiated into the contract then. It was taken away during the bankruptcy era post 9/11. As another person stated the deadheading pilot gets a first class seat, if available, at the time of booking. Since the schedule is created a few months in advance so are the bookings. So this is why a pilot isn’t upgraded but scheduled for a seat well in advance of ever showing up at the gate. What’s amazing to see change over time is that the customer is given an upgrade for purchasing a cheaper seat and they now feel so entitled that they are upset because someone else takes what they perceived they deserve for their cheap purchase. What ever happened to using all those miles they’re receiving for those purchases to upgrade? Then they wouldn’t have to worry about the upgrade list since they’ve “paid for it, with miles”.
Wait until the inevitable upgrade priority (or even positive space upgrade) concession during commuting happens and there will be an even bigger outcry. It’s one of the few things airlines will be able to offer when they have to go back for wage concessions at the downswing of this revenue cycle.
@Tim Dunn
AA, UA, and DAL all have upgrade AHEAD of paying customers provisions in their contracts. Please stop lol spreading fall info.
Pretty bad when unions tell large corporations what to do.
@Gene…..I agree with Kurt….Neatly pressed shirt required? Well, people are traveling in bathrobes these days. A pilot could wear a conservative dark blue bathrobe (or a trench coat) and carry his/her uniform jacket in a garment bag. (Like that elderly organized crime capo who would go to court in a bathroom, hoping to be declared mentally unfit.) It would be worth avoiding on board glares from passengers trudging by on their way to sardine-can coach.
I often see deadheading flight attendants in de-uniformed uniforms.
A lot of cockpit crew members like to strut their stuff, uniform-wise.
My only response to all these insane encounters people are facing is it’s incredulous. While I’m personally not much of a travel aficionado, I have been running my own business in the luxury resell market for 15 years. The company is me. I literally do everything, including running to various shipping companies daily. I can not recall ever once receiving a thank you in 15 years considering I spend 15 hours a day purchasing the rarest of the rare, cleaning up 60 year old bags for hours making them look brand new, packing up everything and shipping it, all while battling mental illness including bipolar. But i never make excuses, i treat everyone with respect and they still show my how low society has sunk by lowballing me daily and having total disregard for all the effort i put into my passion project. But regardless, i have never had the audacity to ask for a tip and im actually doing a hell of a lot of work. Anyone who thinks the bags magically appear at my door looking as perfect as they do when they receive them is delusional. But it’s my job. I would never act like these people. Nobody owes me a tip and I have never asked for one. A simple thank you for your efforts is enough. Just ignore those fools. You don’t owe them anything. It’s their job. If they don’t like it, they are welcome to find employment elsewhere.
Stay strong and don’t cater to this insanity.
Best
Adam D Hershkowitz
The entitlement of expecting a free upgrade (yes you spend a lot of money in coach but you always have received what you have paid for haven’t you?) and getting mad when an employee on duty (deadhead is still working) gets an empty seat that never got sold.
In a time when customer service has left the building, I understand pilots want the best seats. So do the “Elites,” who spend thousands yearly to do business with 1 carrier. I rarely get upgraded to first class anymore. I do get Economy Plus which is basically the old economy. I am not going to chase the elite status because it has lost most of its value. I’m going to prioritize my travel needs and not be tied to 1 carrier. The customer service for being elite isn’t all that great. Remember airlines, now that we don’t care about your airline, the one that does the best job will get the most customers…
I know this place is unfortunately generally anti-union, so here is a great example of the power of a labor union. The pilots and airline negotiated as part of their collective bargaining agreement to receive FC seats as part of their working conditions when deadheading. Employees and management are allowed to negotiate this just like you would be allowed to negotiate the number of vacation days you get or if you get to work from home when starting a new job. If anyone is butt hurt about it, vote with your wallet and go fly on a different airline or take the greyhound. The airline won’t shed a tear.
As a EP, I have been on flights waiting for an upgrade, and I pass by first to see several pilots there. What’s the point of getting a high status when you know you have less probabilities of getting an upgrade??? AA, you should have thought more about your customers….
AA flies some of it’s employees in first class (thank goodness). So do most of the Fortune 500 (when not flying private), law firms, consulting firms and so on.
Nothing to see here.
Note that this benefit for the pilots was a negotiated benefit. It was part of the compensation “pie” of the 2023 Collective Bargaining Agreement. As such, the pilots received this benefit, a cost item for the company, in exchange for something else. IOW, the pilots gave up something to get this benefit.
In Europe, no one gets a free upgrade.
I don’t get the American system at all,
Here you maybe get bumped for an upgrade if the economy is full, and then is gold members and then highest paying ticket.
US travellers are a global plague with their status obsession and their frequent flyer/guest entitled attitude. No other airlines in the world give you unlimited upgrades. Most of the time you need to use miles or pay for them. Watching a yank arguing about getting a free upgrade is what makes foreign carriers abhor them. Most of these pseudo elite flyers got their status through company paid traveling. Time to send the cheap free-loaders to the back of the bus.
Alan,
the AA pilot contract was RICHER than the one it replaced so, no, they didn’t GIVE UP anything.
Their union negotiators might have chosen to get upgrades instead of something else, but they didn’t give up anything.
why some people can’t see that paying customers looking for an upgrade AND pilots both have legitimate ECONOMIC reasons to want priority over the other is what is hard to understand in this debate.
And it is AA and UA mgmt before them, according to Gary, that allowed this setup to take place.
As for those that insist that DL upgrades pilots ahead of revenue customers, there are two reasons I doubt that is the case.
First, I have never seen a uniformed DL pilot in first class when there are still paying customers on the standby list – which is almost always.
Second, DL gives nothing to its pilots that it doesn’t also give to its FAs unlike other airlines that deal with each union separately. If there were DL pilots that were being given upgrades ahead of revenue customers, there would be uniformed FAs up there as well with revenue passengers still on the standby list. and, again, I have never seen that. Pilots get access to the cockpit jumpseat for standby travel (commuters) which FAs do not and I also think – not sure – that DL does not allow its pilots to sit in cabin jumpseats even though other airlines allow that.
and if this was happening at DL, we would hear about it. Gary is an equal opportunity offender. There is a lot of dirt that can be thrown at DL about its loyalty program but I have never read this is one of the issues – other than people that recently have started to argue DL does it because AA and UA also do it.
and, let’s dispense with the notion that there is a safety issue that gives pilots priority to sit up front. These are still STANDBY benefits for pilots. If there was a safety issue, it would not be negotiated and it would happen 100% of the time.
This is a perk that pilot unions asked for and the companies gave because they were willing to placate labor at the expense of paying customers.
AA selling in app upgrades plus new pilot contract makes It hard to upgrade – this has been the case for least 12 months now. as both of these phenomena are not new. . My view: don’t complain, adjust your priorities — is it really critical to work to get EXP on AA to jump to the top of a line that will rarely yield an upgrade? I says no.
American feels like a tiny step above Spirit.
I feel for you if you live in an AA hub, but not sure what you’re expecting.
Just like “self check-out” you try it, they hook you and then it becomes the norm and you CONTINUE TO WORK FOR A COMPANY THAT DOES NOT PAY YOU. When you COLLECTIVELY start putting a foot down AT THE START you make a statement and things change or get reversed. The money grab at the expense of LOYALTY to your brand needs to stop!
How can people get so torqued about air travel. The level of seeming anger on this site alone is way out of balance, is this how people act in the real world over such trivialities? Fact of the matter is the airlines seem to want only high dollar cargo for the front of the plane while selling the back to those who learned travel manners on Greyhound. Why is anyone surprised when this turns into a fecal hurricane? This is what affordable travel looks like and is only the transit part: the hotel guest behavior part is even worse, has anyone witnessed budget highway hotel breakfast games? I have witnessed people taking hotel laundry bags full of the breakfast offerings to their rooms… literally every breakfast sandwich…and give everyone else a “fight me” look. Manners are history, we are all going feral.
Make seating and service more comfortable for ALL flyers. Take us back to the air travel experience of the ’60s-’80s, when a seat in coach was sufficiently comfy, uncramped, and you got actual food to eat. You’d have fewer complaints and requests for upgrades.
Safety is more important than your upgrade and pilots should arrive rested for their next flight.
Has your company looked into a fractional share of biz jet service?
I don’t care what anyone says, implies, or calls me: AA IS WRONG FOR THIS. I’m a longtime higher level EXP & was very disappointed and disillusioned when seeing myself and my spouse as #1 & #2 with 2 seats available on a DFW/MIA flight and then all the sudden 2 on duty employees take those seats at the last second.
Sure, tell me I’m whatever and should have whatever and blah-blah.
AA still has an image problem on their hands because this is wrong.
Also GARY: When exactly are those “more premium seats” coming out? I’m guessing 90% of those are for International and the only increase in domestic with be TransCon…..
I get tired of arrogant pilots. Breaking line at TSA, showing up to the gate late with a bag of food. They stand around the gate when dead heading and just whine and complain nonstop about their schedule or having to travel from Idaho where they live to Miami where they are based
A lot of whining and self entitlement from I can only assume middle aged or even older adults. You didn’t pay for a first class ticket. It was an upgrade based on availability. I’ve worked for AA inflight. When you are dead heading; you are actually on the clock flying to that particular airport that needs crew to work that flight. I strongly suggest if you want to experience the benefits of being in first class: pay out right for your ticket. It will guarantee you your seat. Being upgraded to first class is not a God given right!
All I know is that if you pay for a first class seat you’re going to get a first class seat. Feeling wronged by not getting a freebie is… well… wrong. It wasn’t a freebie for the pilots; they negotiated it. And in United’s case their pilots gave up flying hours (read: tens of thousands of dollars in salary per pilot) to get the perk. Plenty of free customer upgrades still occur, but they’re not guaranteed. Want a guaranteed first class seat… pay for it.
The airlines spent years trying to build loyalty and they were very successful with that. Now they are systematically devaluing that loyalty.
I am a million miler on American, and just got a UA credit card that gives me almost the same perks. AA doesn’t l value my loyalty, so no need to be loyal anymore.
It is that simple.
Here’s an idea: Pay for the seat you want out of your pocket. Stop expecting something for free, then getting butt-hurt, when you don’t get it. Pretty simple.
So, Johnny “Deluxe” Town, an inebriated mendicant who fails at basic English writing, is miffed about an employee contract stipulation. One that increases his safety.
You want FC. You pay for it. Take your beggars cup elsewhere.
Better yet, focus your pathetic mind towards becoming a better person, Mr “Deluxe.”
This article is factually inaccurate on several points.
1. United did not furlough in 2020.
2. United pilots gave up pay (temporarily) to avoid furlough but also got the first class upgrade on last minute deadhead.
3. This: ” They need to keep flying in order to stay current and it’s costly and time-consuming to run pilots through simulators and get them takeoffs and landings.” Is a an English teacher’s nightmare.
@Tom – United did not furlough PILOTS, which is the point I made, giving this to pilots was part of that deal. But United furloughed 13,000 employees in 2020. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/10/01/919029571/united-and-american-airlines-tell-32-000-employees-theyre-now-on-furlough
Maleko,
A union negotiating with an employer is not a union telling the corporation what to do. In reality, it is a mutual agreement between the two parties.
“I know this place is unfortunately generally anti-union,…”
Being “anti-union” is a principled position. I see nothing “unfortunate” about that.
The entire problem is this “I flew a million miles therefore I’m entitled”. A million coach miles and a million first class miles are VASTLY different in terms of profitability to the airline. I flew a quarter million miles between AC and WJ, but I can promise you AC made more money the single time I flew business class (last seat, desperate to get home).
Your ridiculous blog post is disingenuous at best, outright fallacious at worst.
If “paying” passengers cared so much about upgrades to first class then they should probably just pay for them. This is a capitalistic society after all.
Not quite about pilots in 1st
Was on a recent full UA hub holiday flight in 1st. Quite a few FA and FC were flying in uniform as pax. Two FA paxs in uniform flying in economy decided to rearrange 1st overhead baggage so there’s could fit. I found that to be a bit odd/much but hey, the holidays are airline crazy time. I guess I should be happy my flights bookended the holidays and I had zero issues.
The issue is more about the airline who promotes that loyalty and status will reap benefits. Therefore, customers who use their credit card and airline for travel exclusively are looking to reap the benefits that the airline promotes. #1 AA changed their loyalty program in recent years making it more difficult to qualify for upgrades. After paying to upgrade to FC for 8 of my 15 trips (all on AA) and using their CC for all purchases ($45K) I still only made it to Gold status. For those who are Platinum or Elite status I understand your frustration. My advice is to diversify, this is what I plan to do going forward. Including my credit card, the cashback I could’ve earned from Discover or another high percentage benefit card would’ve been more beneficial than moving from the back of the plane to the middle and boarding 1 group earlier (with assigned seats).
Good for pilots; I want them well rested and comfortable when they’re flying the plane. If you want first class, PAY FOR IT. if there’s no seats available, FLY PRIVATE. It’s really that simple. You entitled crybabies think “upgrades” are an obligation. LOL!
Lin and Grumpy Stew and all the other airline employees,
please tell us that you have never flown as a non-rev in a premium cabin and then we’ll begin to listen to you.
U get what u negotiate plain and simple
Boy, if you think you feel bad about not being able to upgrade, how about the rest of the Hard-Working employees when they go on vacation time and they’re flying standby for first class and can’t get it?
Buy a fist class ticket problem solved
Common sense. Who would not want pilots to get the best, most relaxing and refreshing seats between flights when they are flying multiple legs on a trip? Let’s hope you are the one who is going to be on the pilots next flight after he has just had a cramped, noisy flight?
One again this proves that AA has no interest understanding what customer service is for those that are loyal to the Airline. Loyalty is not in their vocabulary.
Keep in mind, half their revenue is by the credit card… that is what’s important to them! Sad!
People should stop flying with the companies that do this too. I won’t fly with American Airlines because of stuff like this and their issues with their planes.
So there’s a few issues here. 1) if the pilot is taking an upgrade and not displacing a person who has a paid 1st class ticket (let’s face it, a good chunk it not most people in 1st are not paying for their own ticket, it’s their companies, anyways but the ticket is paid for specifically for that tier) I don’t think it’s as big a deal. 2) This should be a lesson to people that loyalty to a corporation does not make any sense. 3) the biggest argument to be made is that if economy is so uncomfortable for pilots, maybe that says more about how the plebians are crammed like sardines in the back of the plane. Maybe it’s time to see a push to have greater comfort in the economy.
The pilots have earned Diamond Elite, Platnum Gold, Double Titanium whatever status. Give them a break. It’s not like you’re getting “bumped” to economy. You didn’t pay for the First Class seat. They are deadheading between flights. Wouldn’t you rather have them rested for the next flight they are picking up? It could be yours… Hummm!
@NDRJenerprises
You should review your status. You should likely have hit platinum, unless you were only buying basic economy tickets; a ~$285+ ticket average (base fare) should have net you the 30k needed loyalty points.
That said, while 45k isn’t nothing on the card, you only took 15 flights.
I’m Executive Platinum and not even really that close to concierge key…and I took roughly 130 flights (~60 itineraries) + spent ~100k on the card (~320k loyalty points), with 2 months left in the qualifications period.
I do not see a problem with this – their employer bought them a first class ticket per their travel policy. The only difference is their employee also owns the jet. Non story Gary – do better.
@Tim Dunn…I fly nob rev all the time & have never been upgraded. Listen to that!
I use to fly for work, about 15 to 20 flights a year…. I don’t anymore. Flying just became too hard and too expensive. The airline treats you like crap and their employees from from baggage to the gate think passengers are an inconvenience… I could still fly to attend meetings and speak at conferences, but i prefer to drive or attend meetings by Zoom or Teams. Since I now participate online, other attendees are also using Zoom and Teams.
Self called elites don’t deserve the free upgrades at all. Pay for the seat or sit in the back. Enough is enough.
It’s any pilot with a positive space ticket. This includes pilots traveling to and from training. Just fyi.
Old news. This started almost a year ago. The picture provided looks like it was taken one row back….also in business. Must be a slow news day. Bottom line: buy a first class seat. Also, I prefer a well rested pilot in a nice mood. Dont you?
I think the guy flying AA needs to wake up and smell the sewer. AA hates their customers. The only reason most people even fly them is because they can’t get another flight. I think I’d rather fly spirit and get the big front seat.
Maybe the taxpayers should fund the airlines so the pilots can fly around without those pesky, nasty customers.
Oh wait…..we did that for many months during covid.
BTW, the author added “I don’t blame the pilots” because he is way too afraid of getting roasted here. L and LOL
When I purchase a car the dealer does not say you’re a loyal customer, I’m giving you the best car on the lot for the price of an economy car price.
I certainly understand the concept of encouraging loyalty but at what price? If people want it they should pay for it just like any other industry.
Not my words, but I love whoever said them, “the most important people on an aircraft are the two sitting in front.”
I would think every passenger wants the same thing: well rested pilots operating at peak mental acuity in order to respond to an emergency.
I would also think the same attitude extends to cabin crew, who are there to evacuate in 90 seconds or less and not hot fudge sundaes in the front and Biscoffs in the back.
1. Deadheading (or positive space) is not the same as non-rev travel. Deadheading pilots are being repositioned to work another flight. It is part of their duty day and cuts into their 10.5 hour hard time out. It is only provided after revenue seats are assigned.
2. Flight attendants do not receive this benefit.
3. DL pilots are union. DL flight attendants are not. No airline gives perfect parity between the two work groups. Nobody expects flight attendants to be paid the same.as pilots.
4. Commuting crew, employees on vacation, all other non-revenue travel is standby. Those seats are cleared after revenue, revenue standby, and upgrades.
When the flight is full, those employees have to scramble to another flight to make it to work or home.
Why do they commute? Because a Captain’s 250k yearly income doesn’t get much in NYC, SFO, or LAX.
(That generous income is paltry compared to Ed Bastian’s 35m yearly salary. He, and the rest of the C-Suite fly FC. They and their families are also taking up your precious lounge space too, even during their severance period.)
5. Those of you chasing points and status have it all backwards. You should be directing your anger at the banks. They pay the airlines to fly their customers, not the other way around.
6. Flight Crew have a contract (except DL flight attendants). I imagine that is similar to C-Suite execs who negotiate a pay and benefits package, or any business that has a contract with suppliers and clients.
The lack of knowledge displayed in the comments about the Airline Industry is shocking and the frequent punching down on frontline employees is dismaying.
C.K. Lewis said it best…
“You’re sitting in a chair…In the Sky!!!”
Maybe we should be a little more charitable in these uncertain times.
AAwill be the first big carrier to go bankrupt, again following the next big recession. I’ll be happy when that happens.
@Tim Dunn,
The Delta Pilots HAVE IT IN THEIR CONTRACT TOO, stop with your misinformation. Everyone reports on it.
F**K the “elite flyers”.
Peter Westwood:
This is AA, not DL. Not sure shh you are commenting all about DL union policies and procedures,
LOUIS C.K IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM C. K. (SIC) LEWIS (SIC)!
Hilarious!
This will continue to make me not loyal to AA in the future. Was EXP for years (including last year and currently) but when I saw my husband and I were #1 & #2 on the upgrade list from DFW to MIA. Then all the sudden 10 min before boarding 2 employees took our spots: they lost me and my respect and loyalty. Y’all can call me whatever and say whatever to me/about me. I feel the way I feel and will continue to. Pilots should go to their Unions and tell them it’s damaging their reputations and the business as a whole. Ridiculous that they come before loyal paying customers.
I say if it bothers you that much, become a pilot. Problem solved. That’s what I’m currently working on.
Love those folks who are so brainwashed by pilots that they claim these ridiculous pilot upgrades improve our safety. I guess commuting pilots will be next!!!
A few weeks ago I was on a UA (maybe run by a commuter airline subsidiary?) on an Embraer. I think there were 12 first class seats. 2 pilots and 1 FAl (maybe purser).
This was an hour-ish flight back to their PHX hub.
I only fly UA when they have the lowest fare.
This issue has certainly riled people up. Of course the pilots need those chairs when not operating the aircraft, but don’t they have special cabin crew rest areas in the crawl spaces of the airplane? I think a pilot should fly but have to pay to upgrade themselves if traveling up front in the passenger section of the plane. This might ease people’s minds and allow for more room for upgraded and paying passengers. Seriously though, this can’t be a major problem. It’s not like a dozen pilots are sitting up front on every flight.
This appears to only apply to pilots with a deadhead leg in their work schedule. That means they’re about to pilot a plane from the destination.
Call me crazy, but I want my pilots to have been able to rest a bit before they get into the cockpit. Give them the unsold first class or premium seats please.
If you want to upgrade then purchase an upgrade or buy a first class ticket. Not getting a complementary upgrade has no merit.
The people saying “stop whining” are missing the point. Airlines created loyalty programs to get people to fly their airline exclusively to EARN benefits for that loyalty. Little by little those benefits have disappeared to the point that loyalty has almost no value.
That is fine, airlines can run their businesses as they like but they should also expect some of their most loyal customers to start playing the field. They can’t expect to take away the perks and still expect their customers to stay loyal – especially in a commodity business like passenger airlines.
I have alway found this practice totally bizarre. I fly for work (because I have to, not because I want to). I try to use my upgrade credits every single flight, because I simply can never use them. So I get upgraded probably once every 10-12 flights, and usually short haul. I currently have 154 upgrade credits in my account that I surely won’t be able to use this year. I see pilots in the biz class seats all the time. As someone who flew 127K miles, 77 segments and $45,000 in 2024 – I find it a bit of a slap in the face. It never used to be this way – the loyalty programs have been diluted, flight prices have gone up along with salaries of pilots (far more than the general population). The planes basically fly themselves.
Maybe AA elites should start paying for the upgrade instead of hoping for a free credit card based hand out? Delta and United sure don’t give away their business and first class seats for free to make their credit card vendors $$$.
Union scum being Union scum.
Here’s my take, and I have two family members that are pilots for one of the US3. When a pilot deadheads, they are getting paid, and it is part of their duty day. So they can’t take a 4 hour deadhead and fly a 6+ hour flight. So it’s no different than a normal duty day. Why do they need to rest…they aren’t doing that in the flight deck. Are airlines saying that main cabin seats aren’t good enough for their pilots to rest in?! But they expect us to??
@Steven – I fly for work as well. For an important meeting in NYC, I asked my boss to sign off on me flying out business class so I could work on the flight out, and he agreed.
That makes more sense to me than hoping I could fly business for free. The pilots union decided that their travel before piloting the plane was important enough for them to travel business class, and the airlines agreed.
Maybe you just aren’t that important? But I think then the beef should be with your company, not with the airlines.
So, the pilot, the person that gets you safe from point A to point B cannot have the best seat, so she/he can be well rested to take your are where do you wanna go?
I mean, I want my pilots to be well rested n fed.
Bc if they are not, flights get delayed and canceled or worse.
How is this not an obvious thing? Is ppl really that dumb?
Just came here to say-
flying isn’t a right of the people… Period.
It’s also not a must, it’s simply a convenience.
If as a traveler, you don’t like how it works, then choose a different method of transport.
Have the day you deserve (-:
@sofia, it’s considered part of their duty day…so no different than if they are piloting. If economy seats won’t give them proper rest, then maybe the airlines should reconsider how bad it is for us paying for the flights.
Grief entitled people, it’s the FAA that requires pilots to get a crew rest breaks on flights over a certain flying time. Where are they supposed to rest, a middle seat in coach ?! Have a little respect for the person who has your life in their hands!
@TS
That’s on direct flights ..like international. When deadheading, that’s part of their duty day. They aren’t flying 3+ hours deadheading and then flying international.