I wrote earlier about a doctor who was dragged off a United Express flight (operated by Republic Airlines) last night when the airline needed to transport crew instead of four passengers. He needed to get to work at a hospital the next day. United, though, needed crew in place in Louisville.
Credit: @Tyler_Bridges
United didn’t just decide crew were more important than passengers, they needed those crewmembers in place in order to work a flight in the morning.
Here’s how United explains the progression:
- The gate announced the overbooking of one passenger and offered $400 a hotel night plus rebooking on the 3 p.m. Monday flight.
- Boarding commenced. Upon completion, they announced they needed 4 passengers to give up their seats and that the plane wouldn’t leave until the 4 crewmembers were accommodated on the flight.
- The bump offer was increased to $800 but there were no takers.
The crew needed to make it to Louisville that night, and they’d have to meet federal rules for minimum rest before operating a flight the next day.
United Express Embraer Regional Jet
So United involuntarily denied boarding to four passengers. The first couple got off without incident. The doctor, traveling with his wife, refused to leave. That’s when three officers boarded the plane and removed him. He was injured in the altercation as he was literally dragged off the aircraft.
So what happens when you’re involuntarily denied boarding? When you have a ticket and reservation for a flight but the airline doesn’t give you let you fly on a flight which otherwise operates, and they don’t get volunteers, under 14 CFR 250.5 they’re required to pay:
- Nothing if you are offered transportation to your first connecting city (or final destination in the event of a non-stop) scheduled for within an hour of your original booking.
- Double your fare up to $675 if you’re rescheduled to arrive within 1-2 hours of original time.
- Four times your fare up to $1350 if you aren’t given transportation scheduled to arrive at either your first connection or final destination within 2 hours of schedule.
Under the law the Department of Transportation will review these maximum amounts again this year.
However here’s what happened after the man was removed from the flight:
The man was able to get back on the plane after initially being taken off – his face was bloody and he seemed disoriented, Bridges said, and he ran to the back of the plane. Passengers asked to get off the plane as a medical crew came on to deal with the passenger, she said, and passengers were then told to go back to the gate so that officials could “tidy up” the plane before taking off.
The 1 hour 19 minute flight wound up delayed 2 hours.
Update: While this was a 70 seat aircraft, so the rules above applied, it’s worth noting that there are exceptions to the airline owing the compensation described above:
- If the airline substitutes a smaller plane than what was originally scheduled
- For 30-60 seat aircraft, if the bump is the result of weight or balance issues limiting the number of people that can fly.
All true, Gary, and it doesn’t change a thing . . . it was a ClusterF***.
Yes but Gary, neither article you wrote today details the criteria how an airline can choose who to pull off? Because he was Asian, let’s just pluck him off the flight? Is it random? Fare paid? Age? Gender? Skin color? There is no discussion on poor planning on the part of the airline they should have thought about the 4 people before and how they would get their rest and get to the destination rather than do a bizarre involuntary or voluntary denied boarding. That is not a tool to use to unload paying people and insert your own employees. The airline should be fined and sued. I know someone else does the research for you on these articles and you just post them under your name but Gary, you are a smart guy, please add your value to the articles. I know you are doing the best you can do, but please be focused, I know many have criticized you for that in previous posts.
And if it’s more than 2h?
There are other airlines and methods United could have used to get crew there in this situation.
Why was the guy let back on? Did the 4 crew get on the plane? Did other passengers give up their seats? Why didn’t United just keep increasing the comp until someone did give up their seat? Has the lassuit been filed? Who made the decision to let him back on? Did his wife deplane?
And- how did they choose which passengers to bump? That is a very interesting question.
Forget the doctor aspect of this case. As if his title ‘entitles’ him. I’ll wait until more information comes out. I have a hunch though that this doctor felt entitled (his immigration status is not known, but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian) so I think this might be a case of cultural behavior. If this is an Indian then I’m not surprised. Please google Indian Member of Parliament causes problem on plane in India. This is all part and parcel of the Hindu caste system. Why did the other passengers who had to leave not cause a scene? I’m siding with United on this until I know otherwise. There’s more to this story than one video of a screaming man dragged out of a private aircraft with rules to follow, the rules of carriage.
apparently the choice to bump him was random. he didn’t end up flying, he just ran back on and was then taken back off later.
The PR for United is going to be a nightmare for them. People have choices.
i use to give up my seats all the time as long as the schedule works as i can turn vouchers into eqm and rdm to requalify for status. now it has gone revenue, there is no incentive to obtain vouchers since i dont need to fly. and even if i do, i can fly many airlines for better schedule and price. there is a lot less incentive to give up a seat than previously. i suspect a lot of other former mileage runners are in the same boat. these vouchers are meaningless as i would not do a same day turn around anymore. i am just buying tickets that i really need which doesnt need to be in any particular airline.
That IDB minimum needs to be raised to discourage the practice. Make the minimum something like $800, and the airlines will offer higher compensation to volunteers. While the man’s actions (resisting a police order) was wrong, and the airlines actions (not trying hard enough to find volunteers) was wrong, the best way to avoid these situations is to incentivize everyone to do the right thing.
@Carlos United spells it out in their Contract of Carriage: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
“Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.”
Why do they call it “Denied Boarding” when the pax had already boarded and was seated?
Seems to me that this is yet another case of self-righteous, empowered employees proving that they have the power so you had better obey.
He’s wasn’t IDB’ed since he was already boarded. Please don’t use that inaccurate term to what happened. He was boarded and then later kicked off the plane. This seems that it would be different and under different regulations than IDB.
I’m really curious how the crew order to leave the plane was actually valid. If a crew member can say anything, ethical or moral or legal or not, and can use local police to back that order up then that seems like a huge abuse of power.
Gate agents need to act differently here. If seats are needed then don’t board the plane until you have those seats. Did the gate crew think they’d find 4 seats available if they just boarded everyone? This whole story is ridiculous. And how did UA or the regional carrier not realize they needed crew positioned only after the plane had boarded? Surely there were other flights on possibly other airlines that could have worked.
This is completely unacceptable. UA will have to pay up to this man. The local jurisdiction should have to pay up to this man. And UA will lose customers because of this mess.
I agree with the previous comment about paying higher compensation for IDB (if that’s what really applies to someone who’s already boarded), but I’d add a crucial twist: make it a check for cash, rather than a voucher that might be inconvenient or even ultimately useless for the passenger.
Everyone can talk procedures, racism and regulations, but when it comes down to it, United chose to physically remove a paying passenger to accomodate employees.
I don’t know about you, but my customers would come first in this situation and United could have gotten their employees to work the next day some other way.
BTW, news stories are reporting that passengers were chosen at random by a computer.
I’m not sure how I would have reacted in this situation; I would have probably left the plane to throw a large and earthshattering hissy fit in an area where space isn’t restricted. However, I can’t think of any good reason why any airline should have created this public relations nightmare.
Why is it people feel like they can disobey authority. When officers ask you to leave, you leave period. File a lawsuit, whine on twitter, boycott whatever. But when people refuse to recognize authority we are all in trouble.
Since United might well have paid a lot more under the rules, it should have escalated the offer quite a ways more before the involuntary bump.
The passenger was wrong to resist the order to leave for the same reason you don’t resist an arrest by a police officer even if you are being wrongfully arrested. You bring your grievance and your lawyer into the matter after the fact.
Also wrong are the SJWs who want to turn this into a racial conflict. I’m going to leave it at that instead of being drawn into unnecessary drama.
Gary you wrote :
United spells it out in their Contract of Carriage: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25
“Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.”
Back in 2011 I flew united with my wife, 3 year old son and 1 year old son. We were involuntarily bumped on a 6pm flight – but all of our luggage was sent without us including items required for nursing mother. Still cannot believe they bumped us with our two small children. Had to stay in Chicago hotel without those items. 1 year old slept 45 min that night screaming the whole night. One or worse nights I’ve ever had with kids.
So did united change the terms regarding involuntarily bumping children (perhaps because of feedback from me and people like me)? Or did they just not follow them when they kicked us off back then?
Tony L says:
“(his immigration status is not known, but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian)|
Holy shit can we assume this person is American unless indicated otherwise??? When we see a black person in America we don’t automatically question their immigration status. Why do people immediately assume an Asian person in America is not born and raised there???
This is the hottest viral story in the world right now, at least several hundred million dollars of brand damage to United on its way to exceeding their valuation. I knew their authoritarian culture where FA’s and GA”s just dare you to say something back so they can act out was going to soon come back to smack them down and you can’t get worse than this. Well deserved. Now be sure to have your phones at the ready to capture any further outrages while flying, make these authoritarian Trumpian thugs famous so they can’t go anywhere without being jeered.
Several observations:
(1) Clearly the plane should never be boarded until oversold situation is resolved.
(2) IDB should be determined by fare, not random sequence.
(3) Should never split up a family (either IDB both or neither).
(4) A DOT regulation requiring airlines to post a sign with IDB compensation requirements whenever they have an oversold situation would go a long way to resolving these issues. If passengers know they will get $X vouchers for VDB v. $Y cash for IDB they can make an informed decision.
(5) This is a situation that could easily have been resolved by raising compensation to a sufficient level, rather than cheaping out. Also probably could have put him on another carrier to arrive earlier than 4pm the next day but UA is too cheap to do that.
The United stock holders need to go drag CEO Oscar Munoz out of his office. His response on United’s twitter feed is disgusting.
Fredd says:
April 10, 2017 at 10:21 am
Why is UA’s “crisis” more important than the needs of the revenue passengers?
Does the same pertain if Oscar “needs” to attend a sudden board meeting? Or maybe Smisek “needs” to attend his delayed retirement ceremony?
This is far from “free” enterprise. The Feds are running interference for the airlines, letting them unilaterally breach contracts with legal impunity. I should know… I’m a UA Million Mile Flyer and a Lifetime Silver Wings member.
You’re in your hotel room and suddenly there’s a knock on the door. “We need your room. Get out.”
You’re in your seat at that Broadway play waiting for the curtain to rise. “We need your seat. Leave.”
No, I haven’t heard of those incidents either. It seems it’s mainly airlines – in this case UA – that hold all the cards.
No, I wouldn’t have behaved as the passenger did. Yes, I suspect he was in the wrong.
However, his behavior has elicited worldwide reaction, and mine would not have.
Does anyone know whether the bump offer was $800 CASH, or $800 in United travel credits?
I really doubt they were offering cash… I really suspect the latter, and I’m not sure people are reporting on this yet. If you were being involuntarily bumped by United like this, would you take more credits for future flights on United?
Gary,
Your post seems to have a block quote starting “The man was able to get back on the plane . . . . ” You typically identify sources of such quotes, so I assume the lack is an oversight. Can you fill us in?
As far as DOT’s rules, I think they are insufficient, but that is a policy matter. More particularly, they apply “to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight”. This should have been managed at the gate where the hapless bumped passenger could have been stopped at the gate, shifting the “burden” of physical contact to him rather than placing UA in a position where it had to orchestrate battery of its customer.
What seems clear is that UA had a passenger battered to avoid its own commercial disruption. Were I king of the world, someone would go to the pokey.
Sure wish I was his lawyer. Would be picking out my new yacht this afternoon…
Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to put the 4 crew in an Uber?
@ Larry, you say:
“Why is it people feel like they can disobey authority. When officers ask you to leave, you leave period. File a lawsuit, whine on twitter, boycott whatever. But when people refuse to recognize authority we are all in trouble.”
Under the circumstances, a passenger could easily conclude that “authority” was being abused, with the police being little more than stooges who enforce UA’s commercial needs. We I the police in such a situation, I’d feel like my role enforcing public safety had been coopted by UA.
@Mser: Good luck with that. There’s a reason they had airport security remove him instead of doing it themselves. As evidence shows, law enforcement are generally immune from prosecution when performing their jobs (and even other times too). Throw in a “resisting a law enforcement officer” and he’ll be paying that lawyer to keep him out of jail, not to win him any money…
did they ask passengers in J to disembark, or only Y? As usual, the 1% get away scott-free
“at least several hundred million dollars of brand damage to United on its way to exceeding their valuation…” Calm down Nancy. If a United flight is the cheapest option in the search engine results the vast majority will select it.
@Tony L
What does his race and religion have to do with being removed against his will from the plane once he is already seated? Are you a white supremacist? Are you a trump lover?
Paying passengers should not be dragged off the plane to seat employees . This was completely mismanaged .How many customers has United lost due to this fiasco ?
If you are told to get out of your seat and get off the plane would you meekly comply ? Or would you defend your rights ?
United is getting a lot of heat in these comments but , maybe most should be directed at Republic .
Airlines do *not* remove passsengers based on race, religion, etc.
Computer lookes at time of booking, ticketing, gate arrival and other criteria.
The crew couldn’t use Uber (one suggestion) is due to crew must have a minimum rest time between flights. If this crew could not get to the other city and fly the next morning 100’s more passengers would be impacted.
It’s like putting together a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces.
This is not an oversold flight situation, nor is it denied boarding. The need for a seat came not from too many tickets sold, but needs for internal staff. The denied boarding rules for bumping due to oversale should not apply here. They should have to make the offer high enough to elicit volunteers, and if none, then the flight leaves. How is it denied boarding once on the plane. In my opinion, once you cross the thresshold into the plane, you have boarded, and short of a behavioral or medical issue, should not be available for removal to accomodate internal staffing needs.
@dalo,
I doubt UA will lose customers over this – folks will still choose the flight that best suits their time/money needs.
US might, however, have invited more regulatory scrutiny.
The thing that infuriates passengers about airlines is their attitude that they are just abiding by the rules or its all about passenger safety. Airlines are the only business I can think of that routinely anger and alienate their customers and hide behind lame excuses for doing so. Instead they should always put the customer first and take a hit on their margin like most other service enterprises. This all or nothing my way or the highway attitude is of airlines is tiresome and ill advised. And the rigid attitude of of the crew towards any type of sticky situation is disrespectful and condescending. All the airlines are doing is taking away and dictating terms. If I did that in my business I would be closed in a week. The airlines are at fault for their lousy reputation and the author of this article is complicit.
@Boraxo well stated
racist stereotype above from Tony L. above adds nothing to what seems to be an intelligent discussion
I am taken by surprise that United can use law enforcement powers to back up THEIR corporate need to have seats. All actions by law enforcement must be backed by law and the law by Constitutional authority. How does the United corporate need trigger a law enforcement seizure under the Fourth Amendment? I understand IDB rules under the contract of carriage but this is so far beyond anything that properly involved the police.
” but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian) so I think this might be a case of cultural behavior. If this is an Indian then I’m not surprised. Please google Indian Member of Parliament causes problem on plane in India. This is all part and parcel of the Hindu caste system. ”
Is this random thought based on something that was said, or is it just the by-product of loose synaptic connections compounded by multiple inferential leaps into the abyss?
@ZO: Yes, we, the 1% get away. It’s good to be king
@Robert:
“The PIC (pilot -in-command) is directly responsible for , and is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft”
An aircraft operation begins when any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until all such persons have disembarked the aircraft.
Go drag the PIC out of the cockpit and see what happens.
Two possibilities: 1) United has IT problems so bad they don’t even know until the last minute that a transiting crew needs to board, or 2) United’s corporate business ethics are thankfully unique. Both sound possible, but either way, United’s out of line on this one.
Gary These rules you mention are for Involuntary Denied Boarding. Those apply BEFORE someone boards. Once they are boarded there are no laws which cover refusal to fly the scheduled flight unless someone Deboards except those dealing with ” interfering with a scheduled flight” and “Hostage taking/Hijacking” Under the strict letter of the law UA staff including gate agents, Flight attendents, Pilots and the Airport cops can all be charged with a felony. Not that it will happen but if you are really going to stand on the letter of the law better be sure about your law. There is NO LAW covering deboarding only laws for Denied Boarding. Once you are on the plane the only reason you can be taken off is that you are misbehaving , sick or a risk to others, not for Airline scheduling reasons.
Tony is clueless on rac. The guy is def not South Asian (Indian subcontinent). And last I checked you CAN be American and of any race. That Hindu entitlement comment is also racist and inappropriate. You don’t bloody the face of any customer, regardless what of national origin, gender, etc.
@TonyL —> well, I suppose there’s always one . . .
In the FWIW mode, I will admit upfront that I rarely fly United. Used to, but I’ve largely given that carrier up. I doubt I’ve flown UA more than 50 times in my entire life (versus 120+ flights on VX over the past nine years). That said, I will ABSOLUTELY state, without hesitation, that I shave NEVER FLY UA AGAIN!
I suspect this doctor was in the same situation I have been in. It has nothing to do with “entitlement”, but rather a dedication to your job. I was scheduled to be the sole doctor coverage for a rural emergency room. I was bumped from a Great Lakes flight even though I was one of the first passengers to arrive. I was told it was because I had paid the least amount for my ticket. The fact that I had sick patients depending of me did not phase them.