Comments

1. All true, Gary, and it doesn’t change a thing . . . it was a ClusterF***.

2. Yes but Gary, neither article you wrote today details the criteria how an airline can choose who to pull off? Because he was Asian, let’s just pluck him off the flight? Is it random? Fare paid? Age? Gender? Skin color? There is no discussion on poor planning on the part of the airline they should have thought about the 4 people before and how they would get their rest and get to the destination rather than do a bizarre involuntary or voluntary denied boarding. That is not a tool to use to unload paying people and insert your own employees. The airline should be fined and sued. I know someone else does the research for you on these articles and you just post them under your name but Gary, you are a smart guy, please add your value to the articles. I know you are doing the best you can do, but please be focused, I know many have criticized you for that in previous posts.

3. And if it’s more than 2h?

4. There are other airlines and methods United could have used to get crew there in this situation.

   Why was the guy let back on? Did the 4 crew get on the plane? Did other passengers give up their seats? Why didn’t United just keep increasing the comp until someone did give up their seat? Has the lassuit been filed? Who made the decision to let him back on? Did his wife deplane?

   And- how did they choose which passengers to bump? That is a very interesting question.

5. Forget the doctor aspect of this case. As if his title ‘entitles’ him. I’ll wait until more information comes out. I have a hunch though that this doctor felt entitled (his immigration status is not known, but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian) so I think this might be a case of cultural behavior. If this is an Indian then I’m not surprised. Please google Indian Member of Parliament causes problem on plane in India. This is all part and parcel of the Hindu caste system. Why did the other passengers who had to leave not cause a scene? I’m siding with United on this until I know otherwise. There’s more to this story than one video of a screaming man dragged out of a private aircraft with rules to follow, the rules of carriage.

6. apparently the choice to bump him was random. he didn’t end up flying, he just ran back on and was then taken back off later.

7. The PR for United is going to be a nightmare for them. People have choices.

8. i use to give up my seats all the time as long as the schedule works as i can turn vouchers into eqm and rdm to requalify for status. now it has gone revenue, there is no incentive to obtain vouchers since i dont need to fly. and even if i do, i can fly many airlines for better schedule and price. there is a lot less incentive to give up a seat than previously. i suspect a lot of other former mileage runners are in the same boat. these vouchers are meaningless as i would not do a same day turn around anymore. i am just buying tickets that i really need which doesnt need to be in any particular airline.

9. That IDB minimum needs to be raised to discourage the practice. Make the minimum something like $800, and the airlines will offer higher compensation to volunteers. While the man’s actions (resisting a police order) was wrong, and the airlines actions (not trying hard enough to find volunteers) was wrong, the best way to avoid these situations is to incentivize everyone to do the right thing.

10. @Carlos United spells it out in their Contract of Carriage: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

    “Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.

    The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.”

11. Why do they call it “Denied Boarding” when the pax had already boarded and was seated?
    Seems to me that this is yet another case of self-righteous, empowered employees proving that they have the power so you had better obey.

12. He’s wasn’t IDB’ed since he was already boarded. Please don’t use that inaccurate term to what happened. He was boarded and then later kicked off the plane. This seems that it would be different and under different regulations than IDB.

13. I’m really curious how the crew order to leave the plane was actually valid. If a crew member can say anything, ethical or moral or legal or not, and can use local police to back that order up then that seems like a huge abuse of power.

    Gate agents need to act differently here. If seats are needed then don’t board the plane until you have those seats. Did the gate crew think they’d find 4 seats available if they just boarded everyone? This whole story is ridiculous. And how did UA or the regional carrier not realize they needed crew positioned only after the plane had boarded? Surely there were other flights on possibly other airlines that could have worked.

    This is completely unacceptable. UA will have to pay up to this man. The local jurisdiction should have to pay up to this man. And UA will lose customers because of this mess.

14. I agree with the previous comment about paying higher compensation for IDB (if that’s what really applies to someone who’s already boarded), but I’d add a crucial twist: make it a check for cash, rather than a voucher that might be inconvenient or even ultimately useless for the passenger.

15. Everyone can talk procedures, racism and regulations, but when it comes down to it, United chose to physically remove a paying passenger to accomodate employees.

    I don’t know about you, but my customers would come first in this situation and United could have gotten their employees to work the next day some other way.

    BTW, news stories are reporting that passengers were chosen at random by a computer.

    I’m not sure how I would have reacted in this situation; I would have probably left the plane to throw a large and earthshattering hissy fit in an area where space isn’t restricted. However, I can’t think of any good reason why any airline should have created this public relations nightmare.

16. Why is it people feel like they can disobey authority. When officers ask you to leave, you leave period. File a lawsuit, whine on twitter, boycott whatever. But when people refuse to recognize authority we are all in trouble.

17. Since United might well have paid a lot more under the rules, it should have escalated the offer quite a ways more before the involuntary bump.

    The passenger was wrong to resist the order to leave for the same reason you don’t resist an arrest by a police officer even if you are being wrongfully arrested. You bring your grievance and your lawyer into the matter after the fact.

    Also wrong are the SJWs who want to turn this into a racial conflict. I’m going to leave it at that instead of being drawn into unnecessary drama.

18. Gary you wrote :

    United spells it out in their Contract of Carriage: https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx#sec25

    “Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.”

    Back in 2011 I flew united with my wife, 3 year old son and 1 year old son. We were involuntarily bumped on a 6pm flight – but all of our luggage was sent without us including items required for nursing mother. Still cannot believe they bumped us with our two small children. Had to stay in Chicago hotel without those items. 1 year old slept 45 min that night screaming the whole night. One or worse nights I’ve ever had with kids.

    So did united change the terms regarding involuntarily bumping children (perhaps because of feedback from me and people like me)? Or did they just not follow them when they kicked us off back then?

19. Tony L says:

    “(his immigration status is not known, but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian)|

    Holy shit can we assume this person is American unless indicated otherwise??? When we see a black person in America we don’t automatically question their immigration status. Why do people immediately assume an Asian person in America is not born and raised there???

20. This is the hottest viral story in the world right now, at least several hundred million dollars of brand damage to United on its way to exceeding their valuation. I knew their authoritarian culture where FA’s and GA”s just dare you to say something back so they can act out was going to soon come back to smack them down and you can’t get worse than this. Well deserved. Now be sure to have your phones at the ready to capture any further outrages while flying, make these authoritarian Trumpian thugs famous so they can’t go anywhere without being jeered.

21. Several observations:

    (1) Clearly the plane should never be boarded until oversold situation is resolved.
    (2) IDB should be determined by fare, not random sequence.
    (3) Should never split up a family (either IDB both or neither).
    (4) A DOT regulation requiring airlines to post a sign with IDB compensation requirements whenever they have an oversold situation would go a long way to resolving these issues. If passengers know they will get $X vouchers for VDB v. $Y cash for IDB they can make an informed decision.
    (5) This is a situation that could easily have been resolved by raising compensation to a sufficient level, rather than cheaping out. Also probably could have put him on another carrier to arrive earlier than 4pm the next day but UA is too cheap to do that.

22. The United stock holders need to go drag CEO Oscar Munoz out of his office. His response on United’s twitter feed is disgusting.

23. Fredd says:
    April 10, 2017 at 10:21 am
    Why is UA’s “crisis” more important than the needs of the revenue passengers?

    Does the same pertain if Oscar “needs” to attend a sudden board meeting? Or maybe Smisek “needs” to attend his delayed retirement ceremony?

    This is far from “free” enterprise. The Feds are running interference for the airlines, letting them unilaterally breach contracts with legal impunity. I should know… I’m a UA Million Mile Flyer and a Lifetime Silver Wings member.

    You’re in your hotel room and suddenly there’s a knock on the door. “We need your room. Get out.”

    You’re in your seat at that Broadway play waiting for the curtain to rise. “We need your seat. Leave.”

    No, I haven’t heard of those incidents either. It seems it’s mainly airlines – in this case UA – that hold all the cards.

    No, I wouldn’t have behaved as the passenger did. Yes, I suspect he was in the wrong.

    However, his behavior has elicited worldwide reaction, and mine would not have.

24. Does anyone know whether the bump offer was $800 CASH, or $800 in United travel credits?

    I really doubt they were offering cash… I really suspect the latter, and I’m not sure people are reporting on this yet. If you were being involuntarily bumped by United like this, would you take more credits for future flights on United?

25. Gary,

    Your post seems to have a block quote starting “The man was able to get back on the plane . . . . ” You typically identify sources of such quotes, so I assume the lack is an oversight. Can you fill us in?

    As far as DOT’s rules, I think they are insufficient, but that is a policy matter. More particularly, they apply “to passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight”. This should have been managed at the gate where the hapless bumped passenger could have been stopped at the gate, shifting the “burden” of physical contact to him rather than placing UA in a position where it had to orchestrate battery of its customer.

    What seems clear is that UA had a passenger battered to avoid its own commercial disruption. Were I king of the world, someone would go to the pokey.

26. Sure wish I was his lawyer. Would be picking out my new yacht this afternoon…

27. Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to put the 4 crew in an Uber?

28. @ Larry, you say:

    “Why is it people feel like they can disobey authority. When officers ask you to leave, you leave period. File a lawsuit, whine on twitter, boycott whatever. But when people refuse to recognize authority we are all in trouble.”

    Under the circumstances, a passenger could easily conclude that “authority” was being abused, with the police being little more than stooges who enforce UA’s commercial needs. We I the police in such a situation, I’d feel like my role enforcing public safety had been coopted by UA.

29. @Mser: Good luck with that. There’s a reason they had airport security remove him instead of doing it themselves. As evidence shows, law enforcement are generally immune from prosecution when performing their jobs (and even other times too). Throw in a “resisting a law enforcement officer” and he’ll be paying that lawyer to keep him out of jail, not to win him any money…

30. did they ask passengers in J to disembark, or only Y? As usual, the 1% get away scott-free

31. “at least several hundred million dollars of brand damage to United on its way to exceeding their valuation…” Calm down Nancy. If a United flight is the cheapest option in the search engine results the vast majority will select it.

32. @Tony L

    What does his race and religion have to do with being removed against his will from the plane once he is already seated? Are you a white supremacist? Are you a trump lover?

33. Paying passengers should not be dragged off the plane to seat employees . This was completely mismanaged .How many customers has United lost due to this fiasco ?
    If you are told to get out of your seat and get off the plane would you meekly comply ? Or would you defend your rights ?
    United is getting a lot of heat in these comments but , maybe most should be directed at Republic .

34. Airlines do *not* remove passsengers based on race, religion, etc.
    Computer lookes at time of booking, ticketing, gate arrival and other criteria.
    The crew couldn’t use Uber (one suggestion) is due to crew must have a minimum rest time between flights. If this crew could not get to the other city and fly the next morning 100’s more passengers would be impacted.
    It’s like putting together a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces.

35. This is not an oversold flight situation, nor is it denied boarding. The need for a seat came not from too many tickets sold, but needs for internal staff. The denied boarding rules for bumping due to oversale should not apply here. They should have to make the offer high enough to elicit volunteers, and if none, then the flight leaves. How is it denied boarding once on the plane. In my opinion, once you cross the thresshold into the plane, you have boarded, and short of a behavioral or medical issue, should not be available for removal to accomodate internal staffing needs.

36. @dalo,

    I doubt UA will lose customers over this – folks will still choose the flight that best suits their time/money needs.

    US might, however, have invited more regulatory scrutiny.

37. The thing that infuriates passengers about airlines is their attitude that they are just abiding by the rules or its all about passenger safety. Airlines are the only business I can think of that routinely anger and alienate their customers and hide behind lame excuses for doing so. Instead they should always put the customer first and take a hit on their margin like most other service enterprises. This all or nothing my way or the highway attitude is of airlines is tiresome and ill advised. And the rigid attitude of of the crew towards any type of sticky situation is disrespectful and condescending. All the airlines are doing is taking away and dictating terms. If I did that in my business I would be closed in a week. The airlines are at fault for their lousy reputation and the author of this article is complicit.

38. @Boraxo well stated

39. racist stereotype above from Tony L. above adds nothing to what seems to be an intelligent discussion

40. I am taken by surprise that United can use law enforcement powers to back up THEIR corporate need to have seats. All actions by law enforcement must be backed by law and the law by Constitutional authority. How does the United corporate need trigger a law enforcement seizure under the Fourth Amendment? I understand IDB rules under the contract of carriage but this is so far beyond anything that properly involved the police.

41. ” but he is said to be Asian, and from the looks of the video South Asian) so I think this might be a case of cultural behavior. If this is an Indian then I’m not surprised. Please google Indian Member of Parliament causes problem on plane in India. This is all part and parcel of the Hindu caste system. ”

    Is this random thought based on something that was said, or is it just the by-product of loose synaptic connections compounded by multiple inferential leaps into the abyss?

42. @ZO: Yes, we, the 1% get away. It’s good to be king

43. @Robert:
    “The PIC (pilot -in-command) is directly responsible for , and is the final authority as to the operation of that aircraft”
    An aircraft operation begins when any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until all such persons have disembarked the aircraft.

    Go drag the PIC out of the cockpit and see what happens.

44. Two possibilities: 1) United has IT problems so bad they don’t even know until the last minute that a transiting crew needs to board, or 2) United’s corporate business ethics are thankfully unique. Both sound possible, but either way, United’s out of line on this one.

45. Gary These rules you mention are for Involuntary Denied Boarding. Those apply BEFORE someone boards. Once they are boarded there are no laws which cover refusal to fly the scheduled flight unless someone Deboards except those dealing with ” interfering with a scheduled flight” and “Hostage taking/Hijacking” Under the strict letter of the law UA staff including gate agents, Flight attendents, Pilots and the Airport cops can all be charged with a felony. Not that it will happen but if you are really going to stand on the letter of the law better be sure about your law. There is NO LAW covering deboarding only laws for Denied Boarding. Once you are on the plane the only reason you can be taken off is that you are misbehaving , sick or a risk to others, not for Airline scheduling reasons.

46. Tony is clueless on rac. The guy is def not South Asian (Indian subcontinent). And last I checked you CAN be American and of any race. That Hindu entitlement comment is also racist and inappropriate. You don’t bloody the face of any customer, regardless what of national origin, gender, etc.

47. @TonyL —> well, I suppose there’s always one . . .

48. In the FWIW mode, I will admit upfront that I rarely fly United. Used to, but I’ve largely given that carrier up. I doubt I’ve flown UA more than 50 times in my entire life (versus 120+ flights on VX over the past nine years). That said, I will ABSOLUTELY state, without hesitation, that I shave NEVER FLY UA AGAIN!

49. I suspect this doctor was in the same situation I have been in. It has nothing to do with “entitlement”, but rather a dedication to your job. I was scheduled to be the sole doctor coverage for a rural emergency room. I was bumped from a Great Lakes flight even though I was one of the first passengers to arrive. I was told it was because I had paid the least amount for my ticket. The fact that I had sick patients depending of me did not phase them.

50. I’ve been bumped from an aisle seat in first class after I’ve already boarded – twice. Both were for what are currently known as Transportation Security Officers, but nonetheless, just because I had a valid ticket, boarding pass, seat assignment, and was allowed to board, did not mean I was going to fly. I wasn’t told the reason for unboarding me either, but it wasn’t too hard to figure out.

    It didn’t make me happy, but I expected the airlines involved to work with me on the solution and they both did. I don’t understand how throwing an immature fit improved the situation for anyone. Yes, I would have expected airport security to remove me if I did choose to make an unfortunate scene.

    $800 in vouchers per person was a decent offer – surprised no one on that little flight took it. But it certainly would have made a nice starting point to begin the involuntary boarding compensation discussion, since the airlines HATE to pay cash – which is what involuntary boarding now involves.

51. @Bob – I think getting kicked off an airplane is different than denied boarding where you never got on in the first place.

    The compensation should be vastly different between the two. Once you are in your seat, the airlines do not have the right to kick you off. No where in their terms do they state they can. All the terms I have read apply up to you actually getting onto the airplane.

52. UA was my family airline (we had many employees including myself) but I refuse to fly them because of the dregs of society they have been forced to hire. followed by an exodus of good and faithful employees who made the airline great, which it obviously is no longer Theft, terrorizing passengers, taking advantage of the weak who could not fight back – I have seen the worst of the worst and with the government protecting them, they have become Nazi’s and I could write a book on the way I have seen passengers, including myself, treated. I was so proud when I worked for United, as was my family. Now we are ashamed. This incident is just one of hundreds but happened to be publicized unlike the others.. When you fly, you had better be prepared to be treated like this and worse by any and all airlines..

53. It is unfortunate some of you are going off and being racist here. Please stop being racist and inappropriate.

    Most commentators seems to not understand the issue here. You keep going down rabbit holes and taking the issue and conversation elsewhere. Please. Focus.

    The #1 issue is the IT scheduling department screwed up for whatever reason and these four people needed to be somewhere. That is the issue. Period. Nothing else. It is the IT dept that should have figured out options to solve that issue. There are many things they could have done, not going down that rabbit hole.

    The #2 issue is the passenger did nothing wrong. And don’t start on me, I have read every comment on your views on that. Passenger bought ticket with money, got boarding pass, was scanned at gate and boarded flight like everyone else. Passenger did nothing wrong. There was no denied boarding. There was no involuntary denied boarding. Period. Passenger did nothing wrong.

    Everything else y’all have talked about is the aftermath of a bad situation but you have lost the focus on issues #1 and #2.

    Neither the article nor any comment addresses what are your rights once you are seated? Thank you @Gary for posting “Contract of Carriage” “The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment” but the article does not detail any of that as to why he was selected.

    As @Prabuddha said “Once you are on the plane the only reason you can be taken off is that you are misbehaving , sick or a risk to others, not for Airline scheduling reasons” correct, I agree

    As @createpm said “crew must have a minimum rest time between flights” and “It’s like putting together a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces” that is UAs problem, not the passengers problem. That is what they get paid to do. Fire them if they can’t do their job.

    As @Rick said “take a hit on their margin like most other service enterprises” and suck it up and figure it out, this is not the passengers problem.

    As @jfhscott said “What seems clear is that UA had a passenger battered to avoid its own commercial disruption”, this is not the passengers problem.

    As @Robert said “And how did UA or the regional carrier not realize they needed crew positioned only after the plane had boarded? Surely there were other flights on possibly other airlines that could have worked.”, this is not the passengers problem.

    As @Paul R Gormley said “I am taken by surprise that United can use law enforcement powers to back up THEIR corporate need to have seats”, this was an UA IT issue not a law enforcement issue. I agree with you Paul.

    As @Steve said “This is not an oversold flight situation, nor is it denied boarding. The need for a seat came not from too many tickets sold, but needs for internal staff. The denied boarding rules for bumping due to oversale should not apply here.” correct

    As for @TonyL, and @callingyouout “this might be a case of cultural behavior” please stop being racist and inappropriate.

54. The airlines should be forced to increase their offer until they find enough takers and the offers should be for CASH not vouchers. That will make the sobs more careful in taking overbooking risks.

55. This was not a denied boarding. It was a refusal of transport. After a passenger have been allowed to board the airline can remove them for a limited number of reasons, including a government order such as placing a TSA marshall on the plane. Accommodating their own staff is not one of those reasons.

56. They should have increased the compensation offer until they found a taker. Better to pay $2000 or whatever than to receive $1,000,000 in bad publicity.

57. Tony L. regardless of the gentleman’s background this story is appalling, but you’ve added a whole new level of ugly by assuming the man’s reaction was because of an East Indian caste system. We know NOTHING about this man, yet you conjecture all kinds of UGLY to make him the problem. The fact is he had all the same rights as everyone else on the plane. I can conjecture too: that maybe he is not a doctor but has some personal reason to dread flying on another flight: a medical issue, a mental health issue, a fear of flying except in specific conditions i.e. needing a caregiver, like autism. Or perhaps when he said he has patients to see the next day he is TELLING THE TRUTH! The fact is this man made a business agreement. He paid for specific service: a seat on that plane at that time, on that day. We all understand that certain emergencies can alter this situation, but a service industry neglected to offer him any privacy to even discuss the situation! My son-in-law is a pilot on another airline. With their company this situation would have been dealt with prior to anyone boarding. If a pilot is dead heading as it is called when he returns to his home location, he cannot take the spot of a paying customer however there is also seat in the cabin for this purpose, which is a moot point in this situation. I wonder, Tony L., if this had been an attractive, clearly American passenger, being dragged off the plane what your comment would be. Racist.

58. Either way, we can say “lawsuit” – but if it turns out the guy really *is* a doctor, you can probably say BIG lawsuit. Having watched the airline industry become the brutal business it has become, all the while screaming about “passenger safety” and “9/11” … and noting that neither were an issue here, it will be fun watching the payout. Airlines have overstepped their legal authority in a big way here, and those who should have exercised oversight stayed silent for far too long. Let’s see how this plays out. Hopefully some very fat cats will learn the lesson of the pocketbook. I’ll believe it when I see it.

59. THIS ISNT EVEN UNITED! It’s republic!!!!! Some regional airline flying a route for united wtf

60. @Dr. Sabat —> Yes, exactly! You have illustrated exactly why some people should in fact be exempt from being involuntarily bumped. Thank you.

61. @Ual2017 —> Technically, you are absolutely right, and no one gives a $#|+ … the plane is painted in United livery, and that’s all the passengers and public see; the tickets say “United” on them, and that’s all the passengers see; the ticket counter, the luggage tags, the boarding gate — even the signage out on the sidewalk — ALL said “United” and that’s all anyone sees, all anyone will remember . . .

    It was United’s CEO, Oscar Muñoz, who made a public statement today (let’s set aside how idiotic his statement was for the moment), not Bryan Bedford. (Though I’d love to have heard the telephone call between them today!)

62. Well, they’re going to have to cough up more than $800 when the lawsuit the doctor brings against United starts.

63. If it was important enough to get the deadheading crew to their layover, long enough for legal rest for the flight the next day, and they didn’t get the volunteers, they should have chartered a small plane to get them there. Yes, a high cost for the airline, but that’s not the passengers’ problem. They are in a service industry, and especially in this day and age of social media exploding, the whole world will find out. Seems like the ramifications would be more expensive.

64. Wait a minute.

    You said “United didn’t just decide crew were more important than passengers, they needed those crewmembers in place in order to work a flight in the morning.”

    But that IS deciding crew are more important than passengers!

65. Many comments are related to the passenger’s behavior, people saying they would have followed the police orders, not make a scene and sued later. They are forgetting that sometime we need someone like this passenger to highlight the airline or corporate misbehavior. Now it has national attention, otherwise it would have just been swept under the rug.

66. First of, the comments about putting TSA marshals in your seat are incorrect. No agent would disclose that kind of information to anyone. Also, this guy is in for a big payout!

67. I just would like to point out that the correct wording under 14 CFR 250.5 is that the carrier is not required to pay any compensation if it offers alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger’s first STOPOVER (not “connecting city”), or if none, the passenger’s final destination within one hour of the original booking.

    The term “stopover” is specifically defined under 14 CFR 250.1 as “a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours, at a point between the place of departure and the final destination”, so it has a huge difference from “connecting city”.

68. Delta just cancelled 3000 flights. .again. And people will quickly forget and not think twice about it.
    United had one flight at risk of cancellation or delay… in Louisville KY. And now that is probably worse than 3000 cancelled flights. United would have been poised to send out letters/advertisements about how many months/years in a row they have not had a major back office failure resulting in cancelled flights instead of explaining the overbooking and forcible removal rules.

69. I was removed from a flight to England after being buckled in my seat for same reason.I was offered nothing.I had to sit in the airport all night alone.My mother had just died and I was going home to arrange the funeral.They refused to give me a hotel because they didnt know when the next flight could be.Sat all night by myself in my grief.Not even offered so much as a coffee.The staff knew why I was going home and had zero compassion.Was strip searched in England the next day as my bags were now deemed “suspicious” as arrived without me .Shouldnt the airline know what staff they need and plan for that

70. This is typical irresponsible behavior against any perceived injustice, of non-whites from Third World cultures, particularly those who think of themselves as above everyone else. They usually get away with it. He could gave asked his wife to stay over f he really had to be at the hospital for something no one else could do…say, neurosurgery. But rounding? Any other MD on hospital staff can fill in. And frequently do. I doubt he’s really a dr. This guy should have been forcibly removed by a team of police, not one officer, if he had created a threat or danger. If really an MD, I would never ever go to this guy or his third world buddies, just because of these types of behaviors. Having said that, though, the airline was wrong to displace paying passengers for a nonemergent reason. I stopped flying years ago due to the appalling circumstances paying passengers are subjected to.

71. After watching this video I’m glad that when I fly, I fly with Australian Carriers and New Zealand Carriers.
    Eg. Qantas, Virgin Australia and Air New Zealand just don’t do this thing of kicking off passengers off there flights. Especially in the manner that United Airlines did. It’s been shown on Australian Television all over the country. Even here people are shocked at what they did, this will question peoples choice on flying with United Airlines from Australia to the USA, I know I certainly will. It will be either Qantas, Virgin Australia or Air New Zealand.

72. 4 x 800 = 3200. It was only worth thirty-two hundred bucks to United to get their crew to Louisville in time to make the next day’s flight. Kick up the bounty a few more bucks and they could have had plenty of open seats.

73. To the filthy fat racist rednecks: You are an embarrassment to the white race. You fit nowhere into modern society except to rail against it, spread ignorance and stuff bags of Cheetos down you 500 pound throats. Please flush yourself back into the sewage system where you reside, along with your leader President Pumpkinhead in his fat suit.

74. United Airlines deserves to go out of business… this is the most outrageous thing I have ever seen on an airplane, it’s diagusting, uncivilized, pathetic and the passenger throwing the “fit,” bears ZERO responsibility, the airline bears 90% responsibility and the poorly trained “fake cops” deserve 10% of the blame… I, for one, will NEVER fly on United again…

75. No. What really happened was a gross assault on the person of, and human dignity of, a patron on behalf of a large corporation in the hospitality industry. There may be reasons, but there is really no excuse for this kind of treatment. The cold and unsympathetic statement by the CEO speaks to a corporate wide culture which has cooled to the experience of paying guests. When a person puts his safety and a significant amount of time into a corporation’s hands, they are the object of trust. That trust has been disregarded, no, met with cold disdain.
    Lowering prices will not save patrons from the fear of indignities suffered by such unaware staff.
    At this point, any attempt at rectifying the situation will only appear mercenary. United will most likely be unable to bounce back.

76. On an additional note, if this were really a thought leader in travel, it would be out in front of the situation… explaining how corporate attitude is to blame for this PR disaster, and how looking at the industry as transportation rather than hospitality has caused the backlash. Instead of making excuses for the assault (which is really the only word that can be used with any honesty) Gary Leff could have talked about how the corporate culture has created a decline in the way patrons are treated with dignity. He could have actually used his role in the industry and become a though leader in travel. Instead, he has entrenched himself into the excuses the industry uses to further numb workers to the discomfort and indignity of paying clients.

77. No United employees were involved in any of this. There are contract employees at the gates and regional airlines operating the routes. So the crime is outsourcing and excessive use of force by the Chicago police, but that’s conveniently ignored.

78. They knock the guy out and then drag him off the plane? Maybe call for medical help? Clearly the law enforcement works solely for the benefit of the airline. Great country you live in over there. You can have it. Disgraceful.

79. You obviously haven’t seen Qantas is action then! I have seen them fighting with passengers in London when they are oversold and police intervening to try and keep the calm! It happens to all airlines when there are no volunteers, it gets ugly because people don’t want to be refused travel when they have booked it!!

80. About Gary Leff: Corporate Shill.

81. three lines of questions:
    1. some reports indicate that the male passenger AND his wife were both asked to voluntarily de-plane. Was he traveling with his wife, and did she willingly leave the plane without him? Was she also man-handled?
    2. what is the criteria for ‘randomly’ selecting a passenger to voluntarily de-plane? Is an advantage given to savvy frequent fliers and those who purchase high cost seats so that the infrequent, Joe and Jane Smith, is at a disadvantage and more than likely targeted to de-plane.
    3. it sounds like this was the last United flight out of Chicago to Louisville. Why are crew, who need to be working a flight the following day after a prescribed number of hours of rest, allowed to fly out on the last available flight? If this is routine, I imagine that travelers are consistently bumped and inconvenienced if the passenger is on the last flight of the day. Why isn’t the crew told to take an earlier flight at their inconvenience?

82. There is still no mention of HOW these four passengers were selected. Random is not good enough. How did they narrow it down to these passengers, their seats? Did they go by a priority system? Did they pick names from a hat? If they simply looked around and stopped at this doctor, then that is an even bigger problem.

    Also, is the passenger’s reason for flying on that flight totally ignored? If a passenger has an urgent matter waiting at his destination, does the airline just not care? If so, then the winning airline will be the one who does care and proves it.

    It’s a horrible situation. This passenger was physically and mentally abused. And UA’s CEO clearly doesn’t care.

83. @Dianel – it wasn’t random — priority roughly based on fare and elite status

84. Again to me it seems that if there was an over booking problem or they needed to get employees to another location for whatever reason, this all should have been decided or figured out BEFORE someone is seated in THE SAEAT THEY PAID FOR then forcibly dragged off the plane, I don’t care if he is was a doctor or not, He made it onto the plane and into his seat, then THATS HIS SEAT the airline is just going to have to figure something out other than physically roughing up someone to get their way. The offer of money and a hotel is Great And I may have taken that option but He didn’t have to take that option since he was ALREADY ON THE PLANE!!!!!

85. As a flight attendant for 16 years i have to say that this was totally unacceptable. You do NOT force passengers off a flight for a crew. You re route the crew to hell and back or you re route another crew that is legal. You move CREW around!! You do not force passengers off a flight to accommodate a Dead Heading crew. Unbelievable and cheap!! This was simply the airline trying to save having to deal with paying overtime or the headache involved with rerouting crew members. They would rather create bad publicity and ill will with customers. Overbooking happens in the airlines but if nobody volunteers you do not have them forcibly removed. We only remove people that are flying for free……buddy passes or employees traveling for free on days off. If nobody volunteers then you find another way and let that plane go on. Honestly they could have found another way to get that crew to their flight or taken another crew and made them do that flight……trust me we do this ALL the time. This is why i am so sickened by this whole incident. Yes maybe the man should have been more compliant and not fought…but i honestly don’t blame him a bit. He paid for a seat and was in it and it makes it all the worse that this was just to accomadate crew members for a later flight. It is absolutely terrible decision making. I come to the defense of airlines most times in these reports as usually there is more to the story but this time there is no defense.

86. Check http://www.untied.com

87. The guy is a doctor, but had his license taken away for 10 years. He only recently got it back (2 years ago). He probably freaked out so badly because he was afraid of losing his job at one of the few places that would hire him with his record. So this was more than just missing work, this was a threat towards his livelihood.

88. @Gary — Statements from United said that passengers were randomly selected by computer. Another lie?

89. United’s contract of carriage does not cover the situation that happened. It includes clauses titled “Refusal to Transport” and “Compensation for Denied Boarding”. What United did to this passenger is violation of their contract. Denial of boarding did not apply to him as he was already allowed to board and on board. If “is” means is and never has been, I am not… “, …. president Clinton. Refusal to Transport conditions did not exist. So spokesmen who are saying that United was within its right are United shills. Ripe case for a court.

90. There’s more to this than meets the eye.

    Dr Dao: guilty of writing prescriptions in exchange for sex and charged with 98 felony counts of illegally prescribing painkillers.

    His medical license suspension was partially lifted less than 2 years ago. He’s allowed to practice internal medicine in an KY outpatient facility ONLY one day a week.

    Maybe his history has something to do with the security team’s force against Dr. Dao

    http://hollywoodlife.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-guilty-drug-trafficking-sex/

91. As a four million FF mile customer with Delta and further 2 million with other carriers, I have seen probably all the worst and the very best of airlines, although this tops all.. Delta won my business because of excellence but sometimes airline overbook. Overbooking to maximize seats sold is one thing but overbooking and then adding free riders that bump fare paying passengers is another. Hopefully the passenger selection was not racist, probably not if it was truly a computer selection which I doubt. The beating-up of the passenger should be investigated as a hate crime but with Session’s in power that would go nowhere anyway.
    The Doctor past history is irrelevant, the airport thugs probably knew nothing of this anyway and the leader of the free world today certainly endorsed this type of behavior during the past 18 month. If the Doctor lawyer’s are good he should be able to employ his own pilot and plane for private travel in the future or he may get lifetime free travel which he should request with Delta.

92. Everyone is right. What UA did was wrong; period. However I suspect very few people will actually cancel or nor book flights with UA because of this incident. Various people made a series of bad decisions which will cost UA money in compensation and possibly some people their jobs, but it will not be the sort of serious financial hit that people are suggesting. Things happen and in companies, those things cost money. End of story.

93. This was not an overbooking issue that arose before boarding. Rule 26 does not apply. Rule 21, refusal to transport, applies, and does not allow for ejection because of the need to transport personnel. United is at fault, although Security may also be liable. Not only the doctor can sue, but so can his inconvenienced (or worse) patients, and so can every traumatized passenger on that flight. http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/

    Their stock lost $1.4 billion earlier today, although it has recovered somewhat. Bet they wish they’d offered more than $800 and stuck with volunteers now.

94. I wasn’t there any don’t know the exact details, but here are my two views. #1…… the Airlines have no business overbooking flights – it’s all about money and not wanting empty seats I guess, which to me is not the passengers fault and they should not have to deal with crap like this. They are “gambling” that some people will cancel or be no shows. which in my opinion isn’t right. If there are 50 seats, that is all the darn tickets they should sell. In this case, if there is ever a chance that crew need to board, then they really should only sell 45 seats, ‘just incase”. That’s what they should gamble on – not that someone may not show. The other thing is, they know up until they get ready to start boarding, who has checked in on the flight and you’d think they’d know then if it’s over booked, so why let everyone get on the plane. The announcement should be made for the passengers to volunteer way before boarding is to begin. If no one volunteers, then do the “random” drawing of who has to be bumped then. Again – before everyone gets on the plane. This makes so much more common sense to me than what happened. It’s not rocket science . United, in my opinion went about this overbooked flight the totally wrong way . I’m not referring to how the passenger was handled, I’m talking about what they should have done well in advance before ANYONE boarded the plane and this whole situation could have been avoided. I’m so glad I only fly Southwest. The best and only efficient airline in the industry today.

95. Omg. Omg. He is a doctor! A doctor! He should know better and lose that belly. Diabetes

96. I think the doctor is a total jerk. Yes, it was unfortunate that four people had to miss the flight. But the situation was that four people had to be removed. Period. Passengers were offered $800 and a motel room if they would volunteer to miss the flight. No one accepted. Each passenger had a reason important to them to stay on the flight. So four names were chosen at random by a computer. The 1st couple got off with grace. This doctor had to pitch a screaming fit because his reasons to stay on the flight were more important than everyone else’s. He clearly believes he is more important than anyone else. Then he gets back on and continues the fracas. He is self important and wanted the attention. Was setting himself up to be able to sue. He kept screaming he had patients the next day. He sees patients one day a week. The patients could have been rescheduled or sent to another doctor. I wish people would quit feeling sorry for this narsacist!

97. I used to fly United a lot back in the 80s and back then it was a really great airline, I saw it gradually decline, but the level of decline was unceasing, until now, it is the worst airline in the US if not on earth, the aircraft are often filthy especially the toilets, but also the cabin, the staff are snippy short tempered and often downright rude, problems like these do not originate at a staff level, they come right from top management, so then I can only surmise that this is probably the worst managed airline in the world at present.

98. We live in a civilized world. We can handle things in a professional way and even police are there to handle things in a professional way. This passenger is being treated as a prisoner. He was humiliated and physically assualted. He did not commit a crime. This incident is so disturbing and scary . Just imagine your husband or father or grandfather being dragged on the floor in a plane. People can throw a “FIT”. there’s a better way to handle this situation. l I don’t know what is wrong with the world. Are we losing our manners and boundaries because of new technologies and forgetting how to appropriate deal with the situation.

99. Jack, you are quite belligerently wrong. Four passengers did not have to be removed. United decided for commercial reasons that it wanted to remove four passengers who had valid tickets to fly. There was no overbooking issue here. One of those passengers took exception and was subjected to a violent assault. That is the truth of what happened here. United had no right to demand that the passenger leave the flight nor did the man who attacked him [the real “total jerk” here] have any right to do so. Hopefully, the attacker will both lose his job and face criminal proceedings. United’s share price has already fallen so that company is now valued at hundreds of millions of dollars less than it was before this incident. Maybe the CEO of United should accept responsibility for this fiscal loss and resign.

100. I appreciate that you have toned down your tenor from your last pathetic article, but you are still off-base and on the wrong side of this argument. This guy was deplaned for United’s profits. It is now costing United fantastically for this blunder, as it should. And, I suggest you start trying to understand why the rest of America is outraged.

101. Gaby ,
     Dr. David Dao was acting like my 7-year-old – sometimes you don’t agree with things not saying he was right or wrong – but classy people don’t hold on to seats and get forced off planes – it’s like a self-inflicted situation –

     Also, It was TSA or police that removed him physically and they did it in a bad way – Sorry Dr. David Dao is a straight up idiot – and now we see he has some character flaws – serious one at that.

     http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/11/united-airlines-doctor-convicted-drugs-sex/

102. @Jeffrey Lehmann – I understand why people are outraged, I believe that the police who actually dragged the guy down the aisle and bloodied him are getting too much of a pass. And calling the cops on customers is something that US airlines do in our heightened security environment. That’s a problem.

103. @Moron Morgan

     So typical of the moronic Trump bimbette to blame the victim with completely irrelevant information to try to build back up the authoritarian regime that’s toppling itself. The man was terrorized by brutal thuggery. The entire plane was jeering the thugs, not the victim. He ran back onto the plane like a scared mouse trying to find a place to hide. Any decent human would have compassion. A teacher traveling with his students was so appalled and his students so tramautized by just watching this man’s assault and then run back and try to hide amongst them that he removed the entire group from the plane. Only the most callous inhuman authoritarian bootlicker would support this and then try to smear the man with hick redneck gossip. Fortunately while we live in a country with a third know-nothing redneck baboons who can elect twice the worst Presidents any country ever elected because he’s a stupid moron like them, we also have no history of authoritarian dictators like Russia, so this kind of rule isn’t going to survive here. Trump, United and the whole thuggish authoritarian structure is going to be rooted out by a new generation who want nothing to do with authoritarian nonsense.

104. Greg, you are a PC Snow Flake. Did they use to much force removing him, Yes. Was he completely uncooperative and act like a child, Yes.

105. Greg, thank you for providing further proof of the ability of people like yourself to ignore all facts and rant away like an insane clown. Airport Security removes a guy forcefully from a plane, bloodies him, and you end up with a Trump tirade? A well executed, Leftist playbook piece of psycho babble. Yet none of you Enlightened and Elite Left had any problem with the guy who threatened Trump’s family on a plane, stopped free speech and set a campus of fire, or attacked women and senior citizens at a Trump rally in the Socialist Republic of California. You guys commit all the violence and try to end free speech. And you talk crap on Trump? How did he even get put in this article? It’s about a guy on a plane. Man, no wonder you lost Congress, Senate, over 2/3 of State Governors and over 1000 nation wide before you lost the Presidency. Grab a mitt and get in the game.

106. Buck you ignorant fat hick:

     You try to throw your 500 pounds around with a career Spec Ops commander lying like Pumpkinhead about “leftists” which is the very tirade you complain about. And if “leftists” are such violent extremists why does the UN recognized resource on US terrorism Southern Poverty Law Center document in “Terror from the Right” almost weekly far right terrorist attacks starting with your guy McVeigh bombing the day care center at the OKC Federal BUilding killing 170? Not. one. single. leftist. attack. Not one. Take your fake news and shove it up your waddling hick redneck lardass.

107. Morgan,
     You sound stupid snd ignorant. I wonder how you would have reacted if it was you or your mother being kicked off the plane.

108. Dr. David Dao and Greg are very much alike – childish, insane fools.

109. Obidient sheep get pushed around. Insane fool brought national attention to the abuse and some changes will happen. Every one will benefit from the fool.

110. And how insane is he again? $50 million or $200 million? He’ll be buying his own plane now he’s so nuts.

111. So does no one realize this man committed a felony by running back onto the plane? These are FAA regulations that were put in place after 9/11. Also, these 4 passengers were NOT just so United could make a profit. These were so the FAA (meaning ALL air traffic controllers) could keep the sky schedule on track. Cancelling one flight means adjusting all paths in the air affecting thousands of people. So they chose to impact 4 instead of thousands. Just because this guy refused to abide by the fine print of his ticket. His injuries were sustained during his resisting and thus his own actions caused his injury. The police did not beat this man. They were simply removing him from the seat that he committed a crime to get to. Imagine a criminal being chased on foot by police and tackled. Injuries sustained during said tackle to detain the criminal are not the fault of the police but the fault of the criminal for not simply complying with the police commands.

     Also, just to put it in perspective, what if this man was thought to have some sort of explosive device and upon being deplaned he ran back to the plane and sat back down hoping to blow up the plane elsewhere. Everyone would be up in arms that regulations didn’t exist to stop someone from being able to run onto the plane correct? So although this man was injured in the process let’s stop and think about his actions that caused his forceful removal. This man deserves a one-way ticket back from Kentucky to Chicago to fulfill the terms of his prison sentence.

112. Jason my dear, in the course of time we will see just how many millions of dollars this costs United and/or the Chicago Airport Police for their disgraceful conduct [United] and unlawful assault [Chicago Airport Police]. Unlike the one who attacked him, this man did nothing illegal. He bought a ticket, received a boarding pass, passed security, boarded the plane and sat in his assigned seat. Period. When he was sitting in that seat some gorilla from the local airport police assaulted him. After he was beaten up by that hooligan and illegally dragged off the plane, he simply legally returned down the walkway to take his legally assigned seat. He was, so the contemporary video shows, somewhat disorientated by the beating. He was then illegally detained and removed from the plane a second time. All those illegal acts add up to a lot of compensation.

113. Can one of you answer two simple questions?

     One, under ANY circumstaces can an airline legitimately remove a bumped passenger involuntarily?

     Two, if yes, what technique would YOU use to get that hypothetical passenger off the plane?

     Please answer the questions after reading them carefully, and please don’t change the question to suit your answer.

114. Their contract of carriage does not address bumping some one they have already boarded. They only address denial of boarding or refusal to transport. Words are important in a court of law. I would like some one to point out language of the contract that covers the situation faced by the doctor.

115. Greg- For the record, I’m a skinny guy that was born in Boston. Apparently you think that the 3 Chicago cops were hired post-inauguration on the Trump-thuggery EEO program? Are all Leftists such nitwits?
     For the rest of you nitwits, do you think the individual policemen had any details about Dao’s transgression? No. They were told that a passenger was ordered to deplane and refused. For Tom the lawyer: he was refused transport per the contract. Stop bashing the blue! Especially you liberal elitists! They lay their lives on the line for all of us every day for low wages and little appreciation. They must encounter volatile situations and react to the unexpected while being held to a higher standard than the majority of you nitwits would ever hold yourselves to. Thank goodness they weren’t white cops or you liberal elitist nitwits would be losing your minds.
     Bottom line: if you’re breaking the law and you resist arrest or disobey a lawful order, it it NOT going to end well for you.

116. Morgan Is correct .

117. Fish – the passenger can be refused transport only for safety or security reasons not that they need a seat for their crew. This makes the order unreasonable and unlawful.

118. Overbooking was neither the reason he was ordered to de-board or the contractual clause that governed his removal.

     The CoC was a legal contract. The orders to leave were pursuant to that contract. His failures to comply with crew and police were criminal acts. All orders are considerred lawful until proven otherwise. The venue to challenge them is the court, not the airplane.

     He was ordered removed per Rule 21 sections B and H of the Contract of Carriage he agreed to when he purchased his ticket:

     Rule 21: “UA shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any passengers for the following reason:”

     Section B: Includes “…whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation…”

     Section H: “Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a passenger may be necessary for the safety of such passenger or other passengers or members of the crew, including but not limited to;”

     Subsection 2: “Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives”

     To comply with government regulations limiting number of persons on the flight, UA could order the removal of passengers. (Rule 21, Section B) The original order to de-board was legal.

     The passenger failed to comply with the order to leave the plane, a federal felony and grounds for removal. (Rule 21, Section H, Subsection 2)

     The Chicago Aviation Police are an independent law enforcement agency for the City of Chicago. It is an Illinois state misdemeanor to disobey their orders. The passenger disobeyed their order to leave the plane.

     Resisting arrest is an Illinois state felony. The passenger stated his intention to resist, and acknowledged force would be used to remove him. Force was used, he did resist, and all of his injuries were a direct result of that resistance.

119. Tom- I’m not a lawyer. I just try to apply common sense to each situation as it arises. Here’s my common sense approach: if 3 of Rahm Emanuel’s finest tell me to get off the plane, I’m going to get off the f_ckin’ plane. If I think I was wronged, thankfully our wonderful system of government has a process to handle that. I am reminded of the sage wisdom of Chris Rock: obey the law, turn that sh*t off; be polite, shut the f_ck up; and get a white friend.

120. Our wonderful system of government process would have compensed him OK but abuse of passenger rights by United would have continued and the situation would have been swept under the rug. Now it got international attention. United would not have appolosized if they had acted within CoC. Some time we need a Rosa Parks to highlight the unjust practices commonly accepted. There will be no felony charge for disobeying an unlawful order. Agreed, he would have saved the injuries if he had obeyed, lawful order or not. Corporate behaviour does not change easily, it takes some outrageous situation that threatens their deep pockets through public outrage. Also agreed that most people will not behave this way, but I am glad that he acted on his instincts exposing himself to be man-handled because he felt it was wrong. I doubt that he knew what is in the CoC, but it just felt wrong.

121. 1. United did not offer $400/$800 dollars. They offered vouchers for United flights in those amounts. That is not the same thing, especially if you don’t want to get bumped off another flight, like the next flight they were offering to take the ‘volunteers’ to their destination, which was not until the following afternoon ~ ie, after missing a full day’s work.
     2. The men with ‘police’ on their uniforms are not Chicago Police. They are Aviation police, who had been ordered in January to remove Police from their uniforms and replace it with security. Which evidently they have refused to do. They have to meet basic standards for police training but are trained for only 4 months. They are not allowed to carry guns (thankfully), nor to make arrests. They can hold people for the real police. Note they do not tell the 69 year old man he is under arrest.
     3. The man ran back down the aisles after he was forcibly dragged away and injured. His running was not the reason he was dragged and injured.
     4. His checkered past has nothing to do with the rights & wrongs of his treatment.
     5. The fine print of the contract will be an interesting debate during his lawsuits. His lawyers will likely argue that it is an adhesion contract, one in which one party has no choice nor any power within the agreement, and that this does not cover actions which the law would define as unconscionable. His lawyers will argue this was a contract dispute, not a law-breaking event. Anyone who has been ordered by police to, eg, dispose of a water bottle before entering an event, because water must be purchased inside the arena, has seen public law enforcement used to enforce private adhesion contracts.

122. All the comments here about legal process, fine print etc. etc. etc. are all essentially irrelevant. United will not want this to go anywhere near a courtroom where their terms and conditions of carriage will be examined, still less will they wish what actually happened to be examined.

     They will settle for a figure that will probably be, in relative terms, exorbitant just to keep this out of the public eye and to avoid any possibility of a judgment against them on any detail of the claim.

     Most likely it will be a term of the settlement that the amount of the compensation is not disclosed.

123. 1. They offered cash. Fed regs require it be cash.

     2. Chicago Aviation Police are a law enforcement agency for the City of Chicago. They do have arrest authority.

     3. Reentry after being removed was a violation of Homeland Security rules. It’s a felony.

     4. If he expects special treatment because he’s a doctor, the facts that he used his license to traffic drugs and disgraced the profession by exchanging drugs for sex with a patient are relevant. No special privileges for convicted drug trafficking sexual predators. Don’t want character to be an issue, don’t claim entitlement you’ve thrown away.

     5. The CoC has been challanged before and it is legal and enforceable. United was not the only available carrier. Planes were not the only form of transportation. He agreed to the contract, he breeches the contract, he broke the law, he resisted arrest. The CAP officers were enforcing a federal law against disobeying a flight crew instruction.

124. @Janiece Eaton
     Go back to your United whoremongers and tell them it’s too late to smear the doctor who raised five professionals including four doctors. The stock market and public opinion are already decided no matter how much crap you sling. We live in a country where questioning authority is what’s patriotic, not bootlicking authoritarian thugs whose own City Council is disowning them. There are tens of millions of people who will never shake the image of a 70 year old battered doctor trying to hide somewhere so he could just get home. An entire school class trip to Europe was so traumatized they were removed by their teacher from the plane. Tell me, apart from having your facts all wrong, how could you be any sleazier? I need a shower just from reading your two pukes.

125. @Greg, you go man, you rock.

     @Janiece Eaton why don’t you do an analysis of the front end, why this happened in the first place? You did it on the back end, about the passenger, you wrote at least two comments that I saw. Guess what? It started at UA crew scheduling. Start there. Who are these folks? Why did they screw up? Go look up their background and find out about their history and lay it all out. Come on, you can do it.

126. Tell me, other than throwing insults at me because I disagree with your position, exactly which fact, law or contract rule I misstated.

     Accurately describing a felon’s criminal history is not smearing him. While he was raising those doctors and professionals he was using his medical license to get drugs that he could trade to men for sex. Those are simply facts. If you wish the privileges afforded a doctor, don’t disgrace the profession. Asking for professional consideration brings your professional conduct into the conversation.

     We live in a country governed by laws and rules of conduct. Breeching a contract is not a civil rights protest. It’s a tort, a civil law violation. Failing to follow the instructions of the flight crew is not a blow against authority: it’s a federal felony.

     Dao was being arrested for his crimes, not his race or his age. His civil rights were never violated. He was injured resisting arrest. That his behavior led to such a shocking display that school children were traumatized is unsurprising, but I doubt he cared how his behavior would affect others.

     Please do take that shower. If your body odor is as foul as your mouth you need it. Don’t bother to reply unless you are prepared to discuss the facts or the relevant laws. The rest of your post, almost its entirety, was a juvenile rant.

127. Carlos: Gate agents added the four crew members at the last minute. This was.not the result of some conspiracy hatched at a pre-flight meeting. There are myriad reasons why a crew might suddenly be needed, and neither of us is privy to the why of this case. I’ll stick to discussing the facts as they are known, not some hypothetical scenario cooked up by people with tin foil hats. Sorry, not playing that silly game with you.

128. @Janiece Eaton, thank you for your reply. There is no rule or law that allows UA crew scheduling to do what they did.

129. Actually, there is. Federal regulation REQUIRED the crew members be accommodated, as they were categorized as “must ride”. The terms of the Contract of Carriage allowed for passengers to be removed to comply with government regulation.

130. @Janiece Eaton, thank you for your reply. Please copy and paste

     1) the exact ‘Federal regulation REQUIRED the crew members be accommodated, as they were categorized as “must ride” ‘ language

     and

     2) the exact “terms of the Contract of Carriage allowed for passengers to be removed” language you are referring to please.

131. I posted the relevant CoC rules. Do your own homework.

132. Janiece clearly has a has degree from the Upstairs Institute of Aviation Law. Well done.

133. Janiece has a Masters in Arrogance

134. @Janiece Eaton, I don’t know why you are being so difficult. You posted it, so why could you not go back and copy and paste it here or paste a link that I can refer back? Why tell me to do my homework? Do you know how much time it took to go back and search for all your comments? You keep twisting the facts.

     By the way, what is your background?

     You said “The CoC was a legal contract. The orders to leave were pursuant to that contract.” It started with Crew Scheduling and that is where the focus needs to be, not downstream about the passenger. There would have been no order if Crew Scheduling did their job properly. Crew Scheduling did NOT do their job properly. Can you please address this?

     You wrote “Rule 21: “UA shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any passengers for the following reason:”
     Section B: Includes “…whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation…””
     What you quoted is not relevant, there is NO government regulation that states paid passenger can be removed and replaced with crew member. I have asked you to copy and paste that here and you are unable to do that. It started with Crew Scheduling and that is where the focus needs to be, not downstream about the passenger. Crew Scheduling did NOT do their job properly. Can you please address this?

     You wrote “Section H: “Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a passenger may be necessary for the safety of such passenger or other passengers or members of the crew, including but not limited to;”
     Subsection 2: “Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives””
     What you quoted is not relevant, passenger was sitting peacefully minding his own business. You keep going downstream. Focus @JanieceEaton, focus on where it all started. It started with Crew Scheduling and that is where the focus needs to be, not downstream about the passenger. Crew Scheduling did NOT do their job properly. Can you please address this?

     You said “To comply with government regulations limiting number of persons on the flight, UA could order the removal of passengers. (Rule 21, Section B) ” I don’t you are understanding that everyone paid money and had legal boarding passes and were seated on board. Do you not understand that? UA never limited number of persons on the flight. It started with Crew Scheduling and that is where the focus needs to be, not downstream about the passenger. Crew Scheduling did NOT do their job properly. Can you please address this?

     Thank you for your time.

135. Carlos: DOT regulation states that person’s designated “must ride” MUST be accommodated. To comply with THAT regulation, four passengers had to be removed. Rule 21b authorizes such removals.

     The flight crew is not responsible for designating crew as “must ride”. That decision is made by airport operations. There are myriad reasons why a crew may be suddenly needed: weather, illness, etc. The why is irrelevant.

     I’ve explained every rule and law applicable. If you still do not understand I am sorry but I am done repeating myself.

     It doesn’t matter what caused the crew’s need to be accommodated. What precluded the order to deplane is irrelevant to the law. Disobeying a flight crew order is a breech of contract and a federal felony. It does not matter if you don’t like the reason behind the instruction. He was obligated to obey the order unless he could prove that the order was unlawful. As the order was lawful and he was not targeted because of membership in a protected class, his avenue for relief was the court system.

136. Matthew and George: If I sound arrogant I’ve earned the right to be. I’ve researched contract law, federal regulations and Illinois state law where it applies to this incident. I’ve put in the work that informs my opinion and analysis. I do not have to respect the ill-considered opinions of those who could not be bothered to make that same effort. Respect is earned, and you have earned none.

137. @Janiece, thank you for your reply. Please provide the exact text of “DOT regulation states that person’s designated “must ride” MUST be accommodated.” Show us where it says that pretty please. You are obviously very well informed, please help educate us. Thank you for your time.

138. Carlos: if you want the exact text, track it down yourself.

139. [offensive personal attack deleted -gl]

     You’ve shown your cards and you have no citations to back up any of your officious lies whoring for United to try to drive down public support for their victim. Now slither back under the bridge with the other paid trolls.

140. Greg: I have supported every statement that is in dispute. [offensive personal attack deleted -gl] This is my last response to you. Your childish rant disqualifies any participation in an adult discussion.

141. PLEASE keep this b.s. civil —> resorting to personal attacks/insults merely undermines your own point(s)-of-view, and have no place is discussions such as this. (Indeed, what else is there left to possibly say?)

142. Yes, Jason, this is what we were told as over 30 years they raised an army via nasty vile talk radio (fronting for corporate rule) that has now taken over the country with a President that only talk radio could vomit. So you can disarm if you want, but there are no more kid gloves for those who want to win. These were always bullies (cowards) to begin with. We saw that when those who bullied us into Iraq were all shown to be chickenhawks. The whole game was duping the 30% rubes. No more kid gloves.

143. Greg, this blog — in the Grand Scheme of the World — is not politics. It’s not Democrat or Republican; Labour or Conservative; le Parti socialiste ou le Front National; Единая Россия или Демократическая партия России . . . it’s about airlines, points, travel, and all things related.

     Totally off the subject — OFF THE SUBJECT — I’ve been marching out in the streets since 1967, and my first anti-Vietnam war rally; I was at the ’68 Democratic National Convention & Grant Park; and I haven’t stopped since. But this is not an internet equivalent to Talk Radio, and whether the rhetoric here is anti-Trump, anti-Obama, or anti-Easter Bunny, it is NOT RELEVANT to the conversations taking place HERE. Neither are personal attacks, insults, or questioning one’s genetic heritage. None of that accomplishes anything but to DESTROY — from any side, from any position — the stated purpose of this forum and of Gary Leff’s blog posts and their subsequent discussion(s).

     I shall happily discuss, debate, defend or denounce the policies of the proverbial powers-that-be, but only in the appropriate forum . . . and this ain’t it!

144. I do get your point, Jason, and agree up to the point there are those trying to enforce corporate hegemony here, because this is both the byproduct and purpose of the right wing’s ascension to total power in the US.

145. Of all the comments I have read, I have not read or heard why Dr. Dao was selected to de-board the plane or relinquish his seat.
     Was his seat the last ticket sold and part of the over-sell of seats?
     Had he originally accepted compensation offered by United to give up his seat and then changed his mind when he realized he wouldn’t be able to get a flight back that day to be at his Practice or Meducal Clinic the next day?
     In my opinion, when he would not leave the Plane voluntarily, the Authorities should have called a “time out” to discuss their options, instead of letting their Brawn over rule their Brain.
     In this day of “Cell phone cameras,” people may have to “temper” their actions and control their “tempers”.
     Even though United may have been acting on a procedure that may have been a “Contractual Right”, I think they handled this very “wrong ” and Dr. Dao will come out the winner because of the “Court of Public Opinion” and violence against individuals is not tolerated and seemingly our “worst thugs” can’t be mis- handled by Law Enforcement personnel.
     Dr. Dao might be a hundred pounds soaking wet and farthest removed from being a “thug” and a DOCTOR.
     United and Enforcement Personnel, What were you Thinking?
     I appreciate a forum like these and want to have a meaningful discussion with anyone.
     With everything going on in Korea, Russia and Syria, there is enough fighting going on.
     Fearing the response I may get, can we just have a discussion and not make unkind remarks to each other, just because we don’t share the opinion of someone else?
     This is Easter, a time of reflection
     The time that sends us to Eternity may be closer than we think.
     If someone is able to answer any of the questions I have asked, Thank you in advance
     Happy Easter Everyone
     Thanks
     Reg Ealey

146. @Reg EALEY — the priority list is based on fare paid, status and time of checkin [with a few additional carveouts]

147. Mr Dao’s selection was done by the computer. After higher priority passengers, the disabled, etc, are removed from the equation, the remains passengers are weighted in an algorithm by time of purchase and other factors. He was chosen from a pool of passengers each equally likely to be selected. He had the bad luck to be chosen.

     He and his wife originally agreed to accept the involuntary removal and the compensation. It was only after discovering that another flight would not be available until morning that he balked.

     Public opinion counts for less in the court room, and I would urge United not to settle. I would, in fact, file a cross complaint for the cost of the three hour delay his acts incurred. I would push authorities to enforce the laws he broke and take him to jail. He may get away with a slap on the wrist, but the point needs to be made: he broke the law.

     I sneer every time he is refered to as a doctor. He disgraced the profession and does not deserve the special consideration one might afford a physician.

148. @Janiece Eaton “I would, in fact, file a cross complaint” are you an attorney?

     I read in various reports that all four people “chosen” were Asian.

149. No, all four people were not Asian. When the computer chooses one person, it automatically chooses their spouse or other travelling companion. That’s how both Dao and his wife were chosen. The computer picked one, the algorithm aoto selected the partner.

     No, I am not an attorney. I have worked in legal research, and research of all types is my avocation.

150. Gary Leff and Janiece Eaton, thank you very much for your replies in response to my comment and the questions there -in.
     Janiece, I could care less if you are a Lawyer or a Legal Professional, anyone who does some research and makes comments that make a lot of sense and provides Good Information that helps everyone else to have a better insight into this situation will always get my Applause and Respect.
     My option is to also do some research to try to refute what you have stated and the Contract clauses you have referenced, which I think would not be time well spent by me as I do not doubt what you have written.
     Now, it will be interesting to see how this plays out in Court and whether Dr. Dao is seen to be a victim or a violator of a Contract.
     Thank you
     Reg Ealey

151. Thanks for the laugh Janiece. Self-congratulatory posts from a pompous faux lawyer on an aviation blog was not what I expected to be perusing on a lovely Easter Monday.

152. Youre welcome Matthew. The last thing I expected was another waste of time post from you that cannot dispute the facts, the contract clauses, or the laws I cited. Most be a bitch that a non-lawyer on an aviation blogs can stomp every fake argument you try right into the ground. Have a pleasant pesach.

153. Janiece, you may adopt a purist line and hope United do not settle. I agree that in a real Court, public opinion is virtually weightless. However in the court of commercial reality, it is a heavy commodity. The last thing United want is to have this incident on a front burner for the years it would take to run through the Courts, appeals and all. One from last is for this to get assigned, quite arbitrarily of course, similar to the way Dr. Dao [sorry but he is an MD, even if you are not a lawyer] was chosen, to a Judge who wants to be a hero and comes out with stinging comments against United and the airport police and narrowly or very heavily rules against the airline, doesn’t matter which. United will surely settle and Dr. Dao’s experienced PI lawyers will drive a very hard and expensive bargain, or course with no admission of liability etc. etc. etc. That is a concept that the Court of Public Opinion will just laugh at. They will be joined by Dr. Dao and his lawyers, all of whom will also be laughing [all the way to the bank] .

154. But the flight was NOT overbooked. Booking was fine. The need arose because staff had to get to a destination and could only do so by taking that plane. That’s NOT overbooking. That’s poor planning on the part of whomever scheduled that staff. Thus, the contract should not be binding.

155. This is not a sign of poor planning. More likely it was the result of something unforeseen. A medical emergency, bad weather preventing a crew from arriving, etc. This is a something that will happen.from time to time, and the contract remains binding.

156. George: “That is a concept that the Court of Public Opinion will just laugh at. They will be joined by Dr. Dao and his lawyers, all of whom will also be laughing [all the way to the bank] .”

     absolutely lol. and they will deserve every cent. people will not fly United because (a) they don’t want to be beat up and (b) they don’t want to be told to leave after they are already seated and their stuff in the overhead bins. anyone who doesn’t understand this doesn’t understand that airlines are in the business of trust, and they need customers’ trust, confidence, and most of all $$ to stay in business. to keep insisting they are in the legal right, while they are losing in the court of public opinion is just plain foolish. which is why it doesn’t really matter who is right legally and who is wrong, or according to ‘carriage rules.’

     please keep flying United, it will leave room on other airlines for the rest of us, and we don’t have to risk being beat up or at best, kicked off last minute.

157. Is this an alternative fact? Dr. Dao was off the airplane. He had accepted the initial offer, and was standing outside at the podium when he changed his mind and ran on board the plane without a ticket — triggering the ‘security’ event for the gate agent. He was behaving abusively in the airplane, and there are vidoes of this which were not shown publicly. A Federal Air Marshall (FAM) stood up, identified himself as a FAM, and told Dao that he must leave the plane immediately. Dao hit the FAM. The FAM decked him and carried him out. Less than 20 hours later, one of the largest, most well-financed law firms inthe country, specializing in Plaintiff’s tort actions, had a well-rehearsed social media / lawfare attack against UAL going, with numerous paid employees posting on social media, hyping a well-rehearsed script.
     How did Dao get to the law firm, get them engaged and operating, so quickly if he was in the hospital recovering ?That script included a call for resignation of UAL CEO, whio had recently fought off an attempted hostile takeover. Power has now shifted control to the ‘outsider’ group of
     investors.
     Prediction: watch for this to quietly settle, without all the facts being brought to light. Turns out he didn’t have to see patients in the morning, because he didn’t have a job, as his restricted medical license was still heavily restricted after the felony conviction.

158. Is this an alternative fact? Dr. Dao was off the airplane. He had accepted the initial offer, and was standing outside at the podium when he changed his mind and ran on board the plane without a ticket — triggering the ‘security’ event for the gate agent. He was behaving abusively in the airplane, and there are vidoes of this which were not shown publicly. A Federal Air Marshall (FAM) stood up, identified himself as a FAM, and told Dao that he must leave the plane immediately. Dao hit the FAM. The FAM decked him and carried him out. Less than 20 hours later, one of the largest, most well-financed law firms inthe country, specializing in Plaintiff’s tort actions, had a well-rehearsed social media / lawfare attack against UAL going, with numerous paid employees posting on social media, hyping a well-rehearsed script.
     How did Dao get to the law firm, get them engaged and operating, so quickly if he was in the hospital recovering ?That script included a call for resignation of UAL CEO, whio had recently fought off an attempted hostile takeover. Power has now shifted control to the ‘outsider’ group of
     investors.
     Prediction: watch for this to quietly settle, without all the facts being brought to light. Turns out he didn’t have to see patients in the morning, because he didn’t have a job, as his restricted medical license was still heavily restricted after the felony conviction.

159. Every single word you just vomited was a complete and total fabrication. show one mainstream news source saying a air marshal was on board or that he had accepted the earlier offer and then deplaned. You need to stop getting your news off of trump fan sites.

160. Jean Biyer’s comments certainly put a new spin on this incident.
     Now, with added controversy, it will be interesting to see how this eventually plays out.
     Without having any information to refute what Jean Boyer writes, I for one, will be happy to wait and watch what further comments might be precipitated.
     Reg

161. Sorry, Joan, I referred to you as Jean Boyer.
     I know names are important to people, so I wanted to acknowledge my oversight.
     Reg

162. Interestingly, all the conversation on this subject has stopped.
     The debate was very intense at times and very interesting.
     Has Dr. Dao gone to Court and more importantly, has he received Compensation?
     Is there an update?
     Thanks