Some countries have considered opening up their borders to tourists who have been vaccinated. Thailand considered it, but this week its CDC spoke out against the idea. Australia say sit will be required for entry into the country when borders re-open.
The retort we’ve been told over and over is that vaccines protect the person vaccinated, but not those around you – you might still become infected without symptoms and spread the virus. And that is true, but it’s misleading.
- Vaccines reduce asymptomatic infection in addition to symptomatic infection (at least some of them have been shown to)
- And asymptomatic infection is less likely among the vaccinated (at least with some vaccines)
- Asymptomatic individuals aren’t as likely to spread the virus as those who develop symptoms.
There’s a common confusion between pre-symptomatic spread (people who spread the virus before showing symptoms) and asymptomatic spread (spreading the virus by someone who never shows any symptoms). The former is one of the hallmarks of the pandemic, the latter much less common.
We know roughly how protective the vaccines are for the individual vaccination. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines each showed about 95% effectiveness in preventing symptomatic Covid. But that’s not the most important feature. Both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are nearly 100% effective against severe Covid. The AstraZeneca vaccine reported 100% effectiveness against hospitalization.
The question is how much vaccination reduces transmission. We know that it does. That was even shown in Moderna’s and Pfizer’s Phase 3 trial data. There’s some dispute about how much of a reduction there is. And let’s be clear: no one believes that these vaccines do not reduce transmission. They probably reduce transmission by a lot.
“If there is an example of a vaccine in widespread clinical use that has this selective effect — prevents disease but not infection — I can’t think of one!” Dr. Paul Sax of Harvard has written in The New England Journal of Medicine. (And, no, exclamation points are not common in medical journals.)
An Israeli study studies 102 vaccinated patients and found “that people who received both doses of the vaccine will most likely not become carriers of the virus and will not spread it further.”
Israel is the most vaccinated country on earth and its health system keeps robust data. That makes its real-time vaccination efforts fertile ground for understanding the effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine that is in widespread use there.
A new study has found a reduction in transmission even after the first dose. Those who test positive for Covid-19 twelve or more days after taking the first dose have a viral load that’s four times lower than those who haven’t been vaccinated at all.
Vaccinated people become far less of a COVID transmission risk even before receiving their second dose, a new “game-changing” Israeli study has concluded.
…The viral load was shown to be reduced fourfold on average for infections occurring 12 to 28 days after the first dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine.
…“This is a game-changer to some extent,” he said. “After all, transmissibility after the vaccine has been one of the most important questions we are asking ourselves.”
…Cohen, a Bar Ilan University professor and member of a Health Ministry advisory committee on coronavirus vaccines, said: “This shows that indeed, besides reducing symptoms and hopefully mortality, the vaccine may facilitate reaching some kind of herd immunity, allowing the partial protection of the weak or non-immunized.”
We don’t yet know how much transmission is reduced, especially when the second shot has been added into the mix. We do know based on new data that vaccination with at least some Covid-19 vaccines reduce transmission, though. We’ll soon know if they reduce transmission enough to allow those who have been vaccinated to travel more freely.
This is an important topic for reasoned discussion among adults who, by virtue of reading this post, share an affinity for travel…so let’s agree from the outset to keep politics OUT of our replies. For months (and not so very long ago) an operative assumption was that (widespread) vaccination would allow travel to resume much more freely. Now, it appears this assumption was overly optimistic. What WILL it take? It will be YEARS before the planet reaches herd immunity. Do we need to learn how to live with COVID-19 as endemic? And what, operationally, would that mean?
The answer to the question posed depends on the definition of “travel freely.” The the question of transmission doesn’t really need to be answered to relax most travel restrictions for vaccinated persons. Arrival testing and short quarantine periods of a few days would allow vaccinated people to travel and protect local populations. Requiring medical insurance for tourists is probably a good idea that should stick around after the pandemic. If all travelers are required to have health insurance, the costs should be even more affordable than at present.
Short answer. Yes.
Even if for no other reason than to motivate more people to get vaccinated.
Is therea full rss feed for this site that i could use? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
@Jim F – I’m with you! It will be amazing to have a reasoned discussion. I think the measured caution about possible ability of vaccinated people to spread COVID is characteristic of the scientific community, and it is often taken by journalists and other non-scientists to mean something it doesn’t. No, we don’t know that people who have been vaccinated can spread COVID. What we are waiting on is date to show whether or not they can, and to what extent, if any. The quote from Dr. Sax is pertinent.
The key is the serious reduction of hospitalizations and deaths with the vaccines. We can live normal lives with some people getting mildly ill with COVID. It happens all the time with other diseases.
My own point of view is that once vaccines are readily available – and from that point until herd immunity is achieved – vaccination should and will be both sufficient and/or required for many kinds of activities, including certain types of travel. We have a tool now to end the miserable life we’ve been living the last 11 months; we just need to prioritize making it available to everyone as quickly as possible. And yes, incentivize getting vaccinated by a carrot and stick approach. If you’re vaccinated you can go to an NBA game in an arena. If you’re not vaccinated, you can’t attend on campus college classes.
It is a sure thing that many countries that are suffering immensely from loss of tourism revenue will open up to vaccinated people well before they open up to visitors in general. Needing certain shots to travel to certain countries has always been a fact of life in travel.
Just released..4 people in Oregon tested positive for CV, 14 days after getting 2nd dose. And experts expect to see more cases like this.
The good news is they had mild or asymptomatic impacts. The bad news is it wasn’t addressed if the could then transmit it.
I would LOVE to dump a few covid restrictions to travel more. But until we know better the true impact of the vaccine, I’ll keep abiding by the testing requirements.
Plus more evidence is starting to come forth that this virus may be with us a long time and we need to get yearly booster shots like for the flu
I was looking at vaccine and infection data for Israel this morning. Israel has just reached the 70% vaccination mark for it’s population. Daily infection rates are on the decline…but not low at this point. Perhaps in a couple of weeks we’ll begin to see the impact of vaccinations on infection rates in a major way – but not quite yet. At the moment their infection rate chart looks very similiar to the recent muted declines in the US.
“vaccines protect the person vaccinated, but not those around you – you might still become infected without symptoms and spread the virus”
So why do we allow people vaccinated against influenza travel. ? Double standard
Gary’s words that are most relevant (for the wrong reason), “And that is true, but it’s misleading.”
Unfortunately we collectively have allowed the cancel culture to have their way, so now when the truth gets slanted, the science is not 100% (as its always been) the cancel culture / self interest groups take center stage and the truth gets a back seat.
Remember very recently, the argument that even one death was too many so we have to shut down. Well is one virus transfer by someone who was vaccinated too many? How about 100? What if only one of those virus transfers by someone vaccinated leads to somebody’s death?
Look I agree with Gary’s views on vaccination and travel. Unfortunately as a society we have allowed the “truth” to become a non issue. We like that when it serves our purpose, but now its out of control and comes back to bite us.
At this point in the pandemic, any and all shutdowns to any borders or business if a disgusting act. It is time to resume 100% normal life. If you are high risk and have not received a vaccine, I can see wearing a mask and using caution. CNN has had their fun, time for this game to end.
@Mike and @Ryan. Now lets compare data for Israel and Canada. Both countries have about the same number of Covid-19 death per 1 Million of population, government actively imposing restrictions, and general population obeying the rules.. Canada has much more colder climate and essentially no vaccination when compared to Israel. Right now I do not see any effects of vaccination from those graphs. It looks like the pandemic simply runs it course regardless what we do at least in the Western part of the world. But who will admit that?
@Mike – Israel has crossed 70 doses per 100 people, that’s not the same as vaccinating 70% of population because many of these people have had second doses. And hitting someone with a first dose doesn’t confer any immunity right away, it means they’re about 5 weeks from full protection (3 weeks to second dose, 2 weeks from second dose to full protection).
@EastCoaster
Canada, like Australia has very strict restrictions against international visitors. This is the main reason their Covid rate is very low.
I received my first dose of Pfizer last week and will get the second dose in early March. When I was deciding where to keep the card verifying my vaccination, it was obvious that I should keep it with my Passport.
Similar to the vaccination and medical requirements required to go to Saudi Arabia or South Africa, this should become a requirement for international travelers. This would provide a carrot on a stick for travelers who otherwise would want to rely on others for herd immunity.
Watch the Israeli results in one to two months. Less than 50% of Israelis have been vaccinated yet – about 42% have at least one shot; 27% have two shots. Of course a great number of those were administered in recent weeks, and from first shot to full protection will take about six weeks. We know the vaccines work, but you won’t see the dramatic effects instantly.
Finally an “adult” conversation about the virus and travel.
I for one am sick of these “travel bloggers ” that flaunt irresponsible travel to Mexico/Hawaii/Europe. One wrote how good the conditions and safety steps taken in Mexico of course we all know Mexico is the benchmark for sanitation in the western world.
It’s going to take another 12 to 18 months to achieve and acceptable rate of vaccination in most “developed” nations however much longer in lesser developed areas such as Africa. That brings about another concern is where are these nations going to get their vaccines as some may not be “as effective”
Now one only has to look at Hawaii now , so you get there and then what do you do? Hotels are running sub 40% occupancy with many faculties shuttered, beach chairs nope! Services slim to none. Even with the Governors restrictions quarantines the SA Variant reared its ugly head.
@Patti-no vaccine is 100% effective. At some point society will have to adjust to a certain level of risk if it is going to continue functioning. Some vaccines will be better than others in terms of efficacy but all seem to protect against serious illness and/or death. If covid-19 can be relegated to the level of flu or a bad cold through vaccinations, that should be good enough to remove most, if not all, travel restrictions.
This is simple. Once the vaccine is available to pretty much everyone, then yes, vaccinated people should be allowed to travel freely. If you have chosen to be vaccinated, you most likely will not get severe covid. If people choose to not get vaccinated, they are risking their own health and quite frankly are likely the ones who have been risking everyone’s health. Getting vaccinated is doing your part and once the vaccine is available to everyone, we shouldn’t all be punished because some choose to not be vaccinated.
@Gary,
You are correct…I misread the graph…70 does per 100 people not 70 pct. Thanks for correcting/calling it out.
It does appear we’ll need to wait another ~6 weeks to see the impact. It does appear Israel will give us the first view of what’s possible – although their unwillingness to also provide vaccinations widely to Palestinians living in the same general population (if I understand news reports correcly) may slant the results.
@Eastcoaster:
Thanks for pointing out the similarities of Canada and Israel. You are right, there doesn’t at the moment seem to be a huge difference in infection rates. That said, it will be quite interesting to watch over the next couple of months to see if there is a wide divergence given the vaccine efforts in Israel. I would expect (hope) we will see infection rates measured in Israel to go way down compared to Canada. Let’s see if the data bears that out by April 15.
@Kelly – Nice to know I’m not the only one who still uses RSS. The RSS feed is at https://viewfromthewing.com/feed/
I think we should avoid attaching privileges to getting vaccinated because it incentivizes people to create/obtain fraudulent documentation. Look at what happened when some jurisdictions created a mask exception for people with medical reasons? Fraudulent exemption cards flourished.
People will counterfeit documentation but especially when vaccine supplies are short.
What’s the incentive to get vaccinated? You and those around you avoid hospitalization.
A key point I think many people are missing is why there are restrictions on travel, businesses, etc in the first place. It isn’t to prevent people from getting sick (that happens all the time with many diseases). It is ensure the healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed and there is sufficient capacity to treat people (with COVID or any other disease/injury). Infection rates are dropping rapidly and hospital capacity is much better than only 4-5 weeks ago (in NC where I live we have gone from 3990 hospitalized in early January to under 2000 today – so a 50% reduction).
People are very paranoid and losing sight of the big picture. If there is sufficient healthcare capacity and treatment protocols (2 new very promising treatments were announced just this past week) then there frankly is little reason to restrict business or travel, especially for people who have been vaccinated and/or test negative. There is risk in everything and this is just one more case where people have to take responsibility for their own lives.
Understand COVID isn’t going away (we still have polio, tuberculosis, HIV and the plague) so at some point you just live with the fact it is out there, hopefully minimized with herd immunity and vaccinations, and move on.
Sorry but there really isn’t any other option
@Angela, I’m with you. I got my 2nd dose and have 5 days left until it is my 14 days and I’m already planning a trip up to mountains and casino…not Europe but at least out of the house!
@Ghostrider-we cannot keep people locked up forever. I am all for the lockdowns up to a point. I’m in Alabama who has barely shut down and has virtually no mask requirements or enforcement. My county of 97k has seen 11k covid infections where they are actually tested, many, many more just refused testing so our rate was likely higher. The vaccine roll out has approximately 1/3 of healthcare workers who REFUSE to take it even when available! I am at the point where if they won’t get vaccinated, try incentives as mentioned, no stimulus or entry to events, tax credits or things of this nature sound great but create a whole pile of paperwork that would waste resources.
At some point, we have to open up as sanely and reasonably as we can. Some states have gone way the hell overboard, some haven’t done enough but it doesn’t seem to make a lot of difference because CA who has a ton of restrictions seems worse off than AL and Tn who have virtually none.
I think the best people can do is to get the vaccine, countries SHOULD ACCEPT it for travel. Yes, there will be forgeries by yahoos but MOST people I think would be afraid of being stuck in a country if caught and would actually get the vaccine if they want to travel abroad. Let people get shots and go already.
Here’s an idea. Let an objective agency like the CDC develop guidelines based on careful assessment of the growing data sets.
It will also be crucial for government to develop some sort of digitized, formal document people can show to assure they’ve been vaccinated. My “Covid-19 Vaccination Record Card” with the CDC logo could be forged on any computer.
I get my second Covid shot (Moderna) on Feb. 19. AND I’ve had Covid, back in August. So I shouldn’t be any risk. But that assumption, as understandable as it is, needs to be backed by science.
I would dearly love to be able to put this effin’ Covid travel nightmare behind me and never have to spend another February in Chicago, but I’m not willing to see others placed at risk just because I managed to dodge a bullet.
And BTW, for the record here, even though I had just a “mild” case of Covid, my lungs, it appears more and more certain, have been permanently effected. Covid ain’t the flu.
Sorry but most of you are misinformed.
1) Daily infection rates are on the way down? It’s not from this injection (I won’t call it a vaccine because it doesn’t fit the medical definition). One hour after Biden sworn in the WHO directed labs across the world to lower the spin rates. Of course numbers will go down. This is not a political comment….just the facts.
2) Injection is going to prevent you from getting CV? Where does the research state that?? In fact, early phases of vaccine research are ONLY designed to test efficacy and safety. That’s it!
Oh, as far as safety? 633 deaths and 12, 044 other injuries reported to the CDC’s VAERS system, which represents maybe one or two percent of the actual entries as doctors fail to report.
Take a two hour break from your mainstream news and educate yourselves on the contrarian viewpoints. Be the next Galileo who knows the world isn’t flat and there are other viewpoints (from experts) about Covid-19.
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/webinar/the-covid-vaccine-on-trial-if-you-only-knew-watch-now/
(standing by to receive your ridicule comments and hatred)
I wonder why the healthcare workers are not willing to take an experimental chemical injection….hmmm…maybe they’re reading the literature and seeing the thousands of people who have been injured, most being banned from publication. And give it time to activate in the wrong places. For me it’s not a tested and proven entity.
@Mike – Israel is providing vaccinations to all its citizens. Those who live in the areas claimed by the Palestinian Authority are looked after by the PA in accordance with the agreements they signed with Israel. At the start of the pandemic, several Arab states sent medical supplies to the PA who refused to accept them as they were shipped in via Israel.
Let’s keep this blog limited to travel without slyly condemning Israel. It is not for nothing that Pfizer signed a broad agreement with Israel to use its first-rate experience in widespread vaccination to help it plan for the future of the rest of the world.
“vaccines protect the person vaccinated, but not those around you – you might still become infected without symptoms and spread the virus”
They claim they don’t yet know the answer to that, although they will admit there is some benefit.
Frankly, I don’t believe them. I believe they know very well and the answer is that, once the full vaccination course has been completed, there is very little chance of the virus being spread by that person. The vaccines are 95% effective. It is not reasonable to conclude that with an efficacy rate that high that the virus would remain active in the nasal passages.
My belief is that they just don’t want to announce it because those that have been immunized will know there is no legitimate reason to keep wearing a mask and we’ll be face with the problem of who is supposed to be wearing a mask and who isn’t.
+1 @DaveS (x2), @Angela, and @Bill Dwyer
Especially @Angela, who echoed my thoughts:
“Once the vaccine is available to pretty much everyone, then yes, vaccinated people should be allowed to travel freely. If you have chosen to be vaccinated, you most likely will not get severe covid. If people choose to not get vaccinated, they are risking their own health and quite frankly are likely the ones who have been risking everyone’s health. Getting vaccinated is doing your part and once the vaccine is available to everyone, we shouldn’t all be punished because some choose to not be vaccinated.”
With vaccination making the effects of contracting Covid generally no worse than a common cold (if anything at all), and once everyone has the option to be vaccinated, no one will face barriers to free travel other than their own choice not to vaccinate. Choices have consequences, and I’m looking forward to the day when other people’s choices to engage in Covid-spreading behaviors will no longer have negative consequences for the rest of us. .
Well it was an intelligent exchange till the Q anon/ Plandemic crowd piped in….thanks Sara and Todd.
Your “internet source” actually doesn’t have “special knowledge”. The Scientists and medical researchers that have apolitically dedicated their lives to their work and are simply using their highly educated and experienced background to create something that will save millions of lives over time are the ones to believe. They have way more resources available to them then just a computer keyboard.
Your intelligence shows JohnW when your only rebuttal is to inject the Q crap. Maybe go watch the video link, if you can focus for two hours. See if you can comprehend the real science. Or, perhaps you can’t handle the truth??
The US is onto a winner with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, and probably Novavax (very promising late-stage trials). All best in class.
Regrettably the AstraZeneca vaccine’s main claim to fame is that is prevents hospitalization; not a bad thig in itself of course. However, glossed over is mild and moderate symptoms which it may not prevent. It is well documented that the effects of catching Covid-19 are varied and debilitating and can de long-lasting, even if you don’t get to need hospitalization.
Another lacklustre feature of that vaccine is that its efficacy hovers around 60%, far short of the reported 90-95% of others. Further trials are ongoing, but at present it does not stack up the the hype and spin which vested interests are promoting.
International travellers would do well to say “thanks, but no thanks!” if offered AstraZeneca, IMO.
It is a distinct possibility in Australia, where the Government and its sycophants are heavily promoting it for reasons I will not go into here. The ‘something is better than nothing’ mantra is perfectly valid for hot-spots where the virus is rampant and uncontrolled, but this is not applicable to Australia, where it is so under control it has been virtually eliminated.
Actually my rebuttal was making the point that the science behind the vaccines is reality and well researched and supported by a huge array of experts with no other agenda but saving lives.
Robert Kennedy has been proven to be putting out misinformation about vaccines but he has acquired a following, so he panders to his “base” and taps into peoples fear and emotions with little concern for the truth……sound familiar? You’ve been sucked in by his celebrity.
Ever wonder way so many of the current crop of anti vax folks had the luxury of growing up not having to worry about getting polio, diphtheria, tetanus etc but don’t mind letting their kids chance it?
Now that said, the real danger is Chemtrails…..only defense to that is a well made tinfoil hat
Wrong again JohnW.
Show me something that Kennedy put out that was proven false? Just because he was deplatformed doesn’t prove anything. Except for that perhaps he is telling the truth and big tech/pharma doesn’t want people to hear it? Again, I will wait for your proof. Don’t bring up Hank Aaron because the media really messed up on that one and Kennedy was correct.
Kennedy, ICAN and others just got the CDC to remove from their website “Vaccines do not cause Autism” by taking them to court. Does that sound like someone putting out misinformation?
Your statement about kids diseases is simply erroneous. Those childhood diseases were already heading downward before vaccines came out. Mostly due to plumbing. Go look it up.
The USA is number one with the most unhealthy kids out of the G20 nations. We also vaccinate the most of those G20 nations.
I am a retired Immunologist.
There are 2 types of immunity, usually, only the immunoglobin titer is measured, not the killer T-cells. 94.5% might even be low.
Except for the immunocompromised, there will be some, probably adequate in most cases, immunity even after the 1st dose. The second dose produces an anamnestic response, boosting the immunity, thus all the reactions after the 2nd dose.
After the at-risk population has been immunized and herd immunity is achieved, the virus will still be around, so we will never have 100% safety, but the chance of serious infection is so reduced, travel restrictions should be no more than for the flu, ie none.
There is always a risk of death with even isolation inside the house. We will never get to 100% risk-free on anything!
When the risk is acceptable, like the flu, remove the restrictions. Let people digest the science and decide for themselves what the risks are and the measures they should take.
By all means, get the uneducated bureaucrats out of the power grab mode and back to taking all our tax dollars and doing nothing.
@ JRS, I certainly hope you are right. Has anyone clearly understood why case numbers have gone down so much in the last few weeks? Is it a combination of some initial effect of vaccines, more people already having had the disease, and better adherence to masking and other measures; or is there something else that hasn’t been identified? It is not just the United States, though the decline has been really significant here; the rest of the world’s cases are down noticeably too from about five weeks ago. Deaths and hospitalizations should decline even more sharply in the next weeks. Can we start having hope?
DaveS – of course we can have hope! We can hope that we don’t come in contact with the variants that the current vaccines don’t appear to stop. We can also have hope that “following the science” doesn’t result in another case where health officials abuse the public trust, like when they warned that “people shouldn’t wear face masks to prevent the spread of the infectious illness, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and the U.S. surgeon general.”
This is a great article, very thought provoking. It’s too bad one comment from Joey said, in reference to whether Israel would help vaccinate Palestinians of Palestine (West Bank and Gaza): “Those who live in the areas claimed by the Palestinian Authority are looked after by the PA in accordance with the agreements they signed with Israel.” Israel is militarily occupying the West Bank and maintains a military siege of Gaza, completely controlling it’s borders. Under international law, as a military occupying power, Israel must vaccinate all Palestinians. And it’s in Israel’s interest, with tens of thousands of Palestinians working in the illegal West Bank settlements and in Israel proper. At first, Israel was refusing to vaccinate Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails; after pressure they relented. The Palestinian Authority asked for thousands of vaccines to vaccinate health workers in the West Bank and Gaza and Israel even denied this. I am eager to see Israel’s vaccination results but realize the racist and colonialist policies of Israel severely taint that result.
The covid rate has been going down, because of the weather, increasing herd immunity from natural infection immunity and vaccination immunity. Both should increase.
The CDC is a highly political organization, but nothing like the power hungry bureaucrats. Always question. Always get both sides, despite big tech squashing any diversity of opinion or discussion.
When anyone says “based on the science”, ask for the study, then go to the actual study and look at the conclusion and see if there might be another similar study. Even if you don’t know how to evaluate a study. I’ve almost always found that when somebody says “based on the science” they have NO science to back up their position and are just trying to make a political point.
Follow a few WELL TRAINED physicians or scientists of different political positions.
Your view should be they probably both are lying or spinning. Which one lies the least and makes the most sense?
Be critical. Just because your political beliefs are on one side or the other, don’t just buy-in on the scam your side is selling.
Still using photos of green cover US passports? Haven’t seen a valid one of those in over 15 years.
The anti-vaxxers and Lord Trump-worshipping nuts — in or out of the closet — are definitely providing a view from the extreme wing on VFTW. Maybe this is their form of celebrating the “win” of their twice impeached Lord Trump at the US Senate impeachment proceeding on Saturday.
Travel will pick up substantially when and where the pandemic comes under better control. A sky high level of vaccinations will help the with getting the pandemic under control and people back into flying the open skies.
GUWonder. Accusations are NOT evidence. If they were, Trump would still be President. And travel WILL pickup when the Wuhan Virus runs its course. That’s obvious to anyone that has not sequestered themselves in their basement and had a 24/7 diet of M6M. Move along with your life. It goes by in a blink of an eye. And if there’s someplace you want to go, don’t wait for it to be “100% safe.” That has not and may continue to never happen.
A resounding YES. Stop the quarantine but maintain masks and social distancing in public areas. But should not be required to quarantine if vaccinated.
If we start to require vaccines to rule our life , when the next flu strain creeps on us we will then be required to get that vaccine.
And do on.
If I travel and drive and stay at same hotel or resort as you. What is the difference.
.if you want to protect yourself , that is your option.
If you want to step in front of a Bus in Mexico, again your choice.
All except the sick should be allowed to travel, unmasked. The entire approach to end this “madness” (there is no pandemic) is wrong minded. If none of these draconian rules were enacted, this “illness” (yearly flu) would be over. We adapt and grow stronger with every approaching “virus” naturally.This btw is NOT a virus, has never been isolated, or purified. The data has been terribly miss-represented and propagandized Please become aware. There is no time like the present (EVER). We are in danger. Read (at least) Dr. Tom Cowan, Dr. Andrew Kaufman, Dr. David Martin, Dr. Zak Bush .There are hundreds of other Drs, speaking up and censored. The standard narrative is not true and needs to be exposed.
We don’t actually know whether it’s true that you can still transmit the disease when vaccinated. One writer at a university said it might be true. It’s not proven.
A poster said “We need to get an annual “booster” shot like we do for the regular flu”. WHERE is this information coming from? Has It been written that that is what needs to be done or is that a personal “feeling” that this poster has. It seems to make sense but the difference between Covid 19 flu and the “regular flu” is that the regular flu vaccine is reformulated every year to cover what the scientific community thinks will be the predominate strain of flu that year. Will the Covid 19 be the same way? I do not mind getting an annual shot but not because some poster “thinks” it would be a good idea or it makes sense to the poster.
A friend of ours who is a nurses assistant told us that 14 elderly residents in a seniors care home near us who were otherwise healthy died within 3 days of receiving the covid vaccine, all were having difficulty breathing within 1 day of the shot, this nurse was crying telling us about this and felt terrible about having to administer these vaccinations without the persons consent or their children’s or families consent . I would be very careful about just assuming #1 that the vaccination even works and #2 the safety of something being rammed into the population with only 6 months of testing, and #3 we certainly do not know yet of the long term damage and or side effects of such a new experiment.
Pure BS Dean….if that was actually true it would be all over the news.
Not a single death in my State reported from a Senior Living Facility despite thousands administrated.
You or your “friend” is lying. The anti Vax nuts are proven wrong time and time again but they just double down on saying anything they can think of to support their lies and misinformation to whatever audience they think they can sucker in.
We live in Country that has people believing in ChemTrails, Bill Gates is using the vaccine to implant microchips,Trump actually won the election, etc etc
Mark Twain said it best…
“It’s not what you don’t know, that gets you in trouble, it’s what you know for sure that just ain’t so”
@Tom – Totally agree with you but unfortunately many are incapable of critical thinking. They cannot do research if it means stepping outside their mainstream deities. Can’t understand or interpret what is the definition of a vaccine and that this is may not be a virus.
Instead of contrarian experts being silenced across the world they should be allowed to debate the so called “experts” if they are so certain of their “science”! But that will never happened because the science is exactly very clear and the CDC and big pharma don’t want that to come out. Think about it…..Why have you never seen a debate with experts from the other side on a national livestream broadcast? We have debates in just about every other topics worldwide but not vaccines, covid and other related.
But it is ok to shut down the world’s economy. Another 800,000 first time unemployment filers this week for a “whatever” that has a survivability greater than many other threats. These jobs are not coming back. Can’t wait for the stock market/real estate to go boom. Maybe that will awaken the sleepers. It’s coming…. We have no economy. It is dead and no amount of stimulus can help the debt market from collapsing.
That is ok to take off your mask and eat on a plane because this is a smart bug and it won’t infect during that time. Only when you stand up and go to the bathroom or reach for your carryon.
Ostracize, stifle, deplatform, jail, force vaccinate, etc….those who have a different opinion. Big tech running the show.
I don’t even bother commenting much here anymore. Rather find like-minded people, congregate with them. Who take care of their health, do not listen to mainstream 24/7, can look at the science objectively and will keep fighting the establishment.
For now, we live in a sick world / sick country. Not sick with a disease. The human condition is sick.
JohnW – If you want to start quoting……
“The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.” by Selwyn Duke and not George Orwell!
Your statement “it would be all over the news”!!!! Now I know just how smart you are and that is all I have to say.
Other then…how come CNN’s little brother to Cuomo the mass nursing home killer doesn’t talk about this story! But the FBI is! Yeah John. You are so smart.
Why am I still here talking with these numbskulls?? Ok. I’m done.