Southwest Airlines has announced plans to become just like every other airline, but with less going for it. They’re moving to assigned seats, introducing basic economy fare restrictions, and they’re going to start expiring flight credits. The airline is dropping its unique selling proposition of ‘bags fly free’ and – even after already devaluing points 43% in 12 years have gone a step further by eliminating the guaranteed value of a point, so that awards cost more when tickets are most expensive and you need to use your points the most.
This puts them into the category of airlines like American and JetBlue, but without the positives going for it. Southwest has arguably the worst wifi in the industry aside from Frontier which doesn’t offer the feature. They don’t have true first class (even Spirit and Frontier are moving to this!). They don’t have lounges. They don’t have seatback entertainment.
- The airline’s new Board of Directors has forced management to make a complete U-turn on its plans and implement changes that leave customers having only schedule and price as reasons to choose Southwest.
- You’d fly Southwest when they’re cheapest (even including bag fees and seat fees), and when you don’t care about amenities. In other words, they’re choosing to enter a race to the bottom at precisely the time when passengers have shifted their buying behavior away from this model.
And a new survey of customers reveals that Southwest is scared. Southwest is asking just how much their passengers hate what they’ve done, rating each of their biggest changes on the following scale – Like very much / like somewhat / neutral / dislike somewhat / dislike very much:
- Ending free checked bags
- Basic economy
- Assigned seats
- Devaluing Rapid Rewards points
- Expiring flight credits
NEW SURVEY REGARDING THE BACKLASH! GO AND VOTE!
byu/ox123456 inSouthwestAirlines
The survey asks what passengers think will happen to airfares, whether good customer service will still be provided, and whether the arline will still take care of its customers? Does Southwest Airlines still “stand[..] out from other airlines” is a good way to capture some of this. And the survey asks whether these changes make it more or less likely that customers will fly the airline?
On the last screen of the survey, where customers can write-in questions free-form, one respondent asks them to recommend an American Airlines credit card. Another asks how much their activist investors paid them “to sell the soul of this company.” Hopefully those answers make it into the summaries seen by management and they get the message.
Is this a last ditch attempt by management to convince the Board of Directors to backtrack on some of the most extreme changes they’ve made? Or an skunkworks project by Southwest lifers to show management the errors of the path they’re on? That much is unclear.
However the smart thing to do would be to seriously consider assigned seats – many customers really do prefer this, and the move to offer extra legroom seats (while taking legroom away from regular coach on many aircraft) requires that those seats at least be assigned. They should be offering to sell blocked middle seats, too, at least – more revenue and a better experience!
But everything else they’ve announced is unequivocally worse for customers with no redeeming upside. They want customers to spend more while getting less, and while not making additional investments in the travel experience.
Checked bag fees will mean confiscating more carry-on bags at the gate as passengers try to bring everything on board to save money, and this will delay flights which is costly. And their gates aren’t even always equipped to handle the increased volume of gate checked bags! There’s increased staffing considerations to make this happen, as well. Their IT may not even be up for implementing all of the changes they’ve announced.
In September, I wrote that basic economy and checked bag fees were coming but then CEO Bob Jordan explained to investors why free checked bags made the airline more profitable and sent a message to customers promising free checked bags would stay. At this point can the damage be undone? Would customers even trust them again?
(HT: Paddle Your Own Kanoo)
Loyalty doesn’t mean profits. An airline could have $19 fares with free checked bags and fill every plane to the gills and have customers returning time after time. But how exactly is that airline going to make money off a $19 fare?
There is absolutely nothing positive left about Southwest, but the negatives are starting to grow,
What would make me want to fly them as opposed to another airline closer to my home?
Certainly not that extra 1/2 inch of legroom that they’ll be charging extra for. Certainly not assigned seating. Certainly not baggage fees. And they have not been a “budget” or “low cost” carrier in years, nor is their on time record something to brag about.
No, I have just used the remainder of my loyalty points (before they become worthless) accumulated over the past 15 years when I flew Southwest exclusively for, flights throughout this year. After that, we will be parting company. But hey, it was fun while it lasted.
@George – Did you read the article? Gary’s point has little to do with loyalty and everything to do with profit. Southwest just destroyed their value proposition, irrespective of “loyalty.”
Companion Pass is the only thing they have going – I will spend on their card just enough to get that. They have not been “low cost” – pick any random date and route on Google flights and that would become apparent. Their fares are going to have to go down if they want to remain competitive (especially on itineraries which include a stop)
As a former near 17 yr. Southwest employee it is sad seeing Southwest in this downward spiral. Terrible Leadership and Management is Why
Pushed Southwest into my “consider last” category with AA.
Southwest is already more expensive than other carriers, and the chance they have a direct flight other than to their hubs is minimal. Its hubs (BWI, HOU and MDW) cannot be anything close to fortresses due to proximity to other major hubs (IAD, ORD and IAH ) – all UA hubs.
It doesn’t even dispense its famous peanuts. (I know – due to fear of nut allergies. But “Fly for Peanuts” was excellent marketing.) The value proposition for Southwest has turned decidedly negative.
(AA is on my “consider last” list because of ontime reliability and lack of in flight amenities. Its vaunted “D0” is a joke.)
If the recent changes are going to stick and the airline is going to make it financially, they need to do three things:
1.) Introduce a bona fide, full-service, domestic first class product.
2.) Join a global alliance.
3.) Build lounges at every hub.
It’s kind of astounding that they didn’t do these three things PRIOR to making the other changes.
The line (how much their activist investors paid them “to sell the soul of this company.”) says it all.
No matter what Elliott (mis)Management ‘paid them,’ it wasn’t enough. And the damage to the company (its loyal passengers and its workers) is just getting started. Southwest is about to face strong headwinds, due in-part to its own self-imposed negative changes, and also because of the now all-but-inevitable economic downturn we’re about to face due to our poor leadership. So, Southwest really is a microcosm for us all in this era.
@jamesb2147 — If you come by VFTW often, you’ll start to notice that @George N Romey doesn’t usually read what Gary posts; he just has pre-made, often-wrong ‘hot takes’ ready to go. Bah!
@Mike Hunt — At this point, why not. There’s no way they’ll do any of what you’re saying (they aren’t going to invest any further, not in cabins, aircraft, food, or lounges; they’re just smash-and-grab at this point). But, let’s pretend: Go big! Put in some lie-flat!
I love it. A survey asking “Just how much do you hate what we’ve done to your favorite airline?”
Expiring credits is my top peeve. It will be continual aggravation to track expiration, and I will make sure Southwest makes no money from me on that. Non-expiring credits are a great way to create repeat business. It made sense before and it makes sense now.
I trusted Southwest enough to invest in non-expiring funds sufficient for almost a year of travel. Southwest broke that trust. (Although at much higher non-Basic fares, I might now only have half a year’s worth of travel funds.)
I recommended Southwest to all my friends and family as the one airline that won’t try to screw you. Not a mistake I will make again, regardless.
We have all been red-pilled. We won’t be going back into the pod.
Mike,
it is likely that you are right.
WN was simply carrying too many passengers that didn’t make enough money for them. As hard as it is for some to understand, companies sometimes have to fire some customers. WN is likely firing its least profitable customers – but the question is whether they can replace those customers w/ others.
Given that WN’s network is not significantly shrinking or being rearranged, it is a tall order for them to be able to pull in a bunch of new, higher value customers from markets that they already serve.
1 and 3 on your list are how the big 3 manage to attract high value passengers not just in their hubs but also on a connecting basis and AA and DL do that across the US far better than UA or WN. DL clearly gets far more credit card revenue – which is a byproduct of premium demand – in major cities – of which WN serves plenty – but also in secondary markets, of which WN serves plenty. In a competitive matchup based on schedule and fares, DL and AA for that matter – simply offer a more compelling total product.
Dan,
it has got to be incredibly hard to be a WN employee right now in the midst of all of these changes. Throwing away everything that has defined WN in order to become just like competitors – minus their advantages – leaves a lot of uncertainty. I do hope you and other WN employees hang in there. I suspect it will be apparent pretty quickly whether all of these changes do what WN needed to do or was an enormous mistake. I wish you the best.
Southwest for hour long flights when fares are competitive. Otherwise, why bother…as they try to become worse than the others.
Yes southwest went way way too far. There gonna loses a whole lot of flying and that gonna hurt them big time it’s gonna hurt them in away that they will have to file bankruptcy and that really really hurt them and that coming down the road mark my words I’ve seen this happen before and southwest might not recover from it and go outta business this is not the b way to treat your flying customers they no better. I fly with them once yrs for vacation I’ll be taking the the Amtrak train from now on untill things change back the way it was the Elliot investment group outta be fired.they have ruin southwest where they cannot come back
And I wonder if we’re seeing a gradual run-up to a return of Civil Aeronautics Board-style airline regulation among the survivors.
Well, one of the reason’s I did not fly Southwest more in the past was the lack of assigned space. I am a vertically challenged person (very tall 🙂 who definitely needs exit rows or extra leg room seats. Could never really count on getting A1 to A15 seating and in the end this cost as much as buying a guaranteed extra leg room seat on another airline.
I almost never check baggage on domestic flights, so also could care less about this change.
Devaluing of points? Well, that is the case with every Airline now….
@Tim Dunn — Oh, come now, as much as Mike Hunt’s ideas (here and before) are a nice thought-exercise for us, Southwest and its current Board is definitely not going to invest in any of those changes, especially due to the cost-benefit and certainly not with this current market outlook.
As we’ve discussed before, sadly for its loyal customers and workers, the airline likely eventually going the way of Northwest (a merger) or PanAm (bankruptcy, sale of assets, etc.). Perhaps, like with both of those prior examples, Delta will again be the beneficiary. Time will tell!
My wife and I are each a Rapid Rewards member. We each hold a (different) SW card from Chase.
Neither of us has received this survey.
Is this a survey that was officially commissioned by Southwest?
I agree with Tim…. Southwest is finally firing its unprofitable customers, yet has limited options to replace them with full fare corporate clients since – until the entire fleet has the new seats and expanded overhead bins – no one wants to board in a cattle line for the right to sit in a 17″ seat. I’m traveling to the Final Four on SWA and dreading the flight. Even Spirit and Frontier have a superior hard product (Big Front Seat).
@Mark Underwood — I hear you on your SW comments. And I love me some choochoos, but is Amtrak really a realistic alternative in the USA, outside of the NE corridor?
Listen, I’m a huge Acela fan, and can’t wait for their next generation cars. And, sure, if you want to do the FL-DC ‘car train’, or a scenic routing through the Rockies, but otherwise, it’s quite limited and relatively inefficient, sir. We aren’t Japan, the CCP, or even the French or Italians, all of whom actually invested in high-quality, reliable high-speed rail across our country. It’s a real shame.
1990
I – like Mike Hunt – didn’t say that WN execs or Elliott would do what needs to be done but that those items are things that have to be done for WN to succeed.
DL has a long history of recognizing other airline’s vulnerability and benefiting from it.
refugee,
if the industry is collapsed to just 3 big nationwide carriers down from 4 now then more regulation isn’t really going to do much.
50 years after deregulation, the US airline industry is still not sustainably profitable.
Blocking new entrants and squeezing out the remaining small players should not be discounted.
It’s not necessarily true that they went too far. The bigger thing gets alluded to in the article and by others in the posts. The changes make WN a legacy carrier that looks like everyone else, but not as good. No plus or first class seats, bad WiFi, no alliances etc. And they aren’t cheaper most of the time anymore. So what is the point beyond companion pass? I still fly them a little mostly because the credit card lets me bump to A1-15 four times a year. But that is basically my limit right now. Assigning seats would help for work travel, but otherwise, meh.
No survey received here.
I had just received a new RR card so I now have 55,000 miles and $1200 in travel funds. So I’ll still fly SW to use these up. Once they’re gone I’ll compare with the competitors. My home airport is ATL, and the reduction in flights is disappointing. I’m now depositing AMEX airline credits in UA travel bank. I’ll like flying UA to EWR less than SW to LGA, but so be it.
It’s been a long road since I flew AirTran a lot and kept on with SW afterwards.
The short answer is YES. Southwest has quite simply lost their way. They used to be smarter than the others, beating them at their own game. Now they have become stupid and have positioned themselves in a self-destructive race to the bottom.
Southwest has taken away every reason I chose to fly with them. I will take by business elsewhere. I can understand the assigned seating thing because of all the people who claim to need wheelchairs at the departure gate, but once at the arrival gate they are healed. Taking away the free bags, raising all the prices, and taking away flight credits, management and the investors have really messed up. Better start preparing to go out of business.
I did not get a survey either, bummer.
It feels like everything management has done has been way out of order, like they dumped all the steps on the ground and start picking one at a time at random.
I don’t believe Southwest really wants to hear. Many of us received a video a few days ago after 2,000 negative comments the ability to comment and the comments themselves disappeared
Yes but where will pax go? There isn’t a lot of choice anymore.
I am fine with assigned seats and even with the bag fee as its waived for chase sw card holders. I am not ok with them de valuing my points as I always book the wanna getaway fare level. If i earn less points and flights cost more points I will just fly another airline. Jet Blue and Frontier fly out of my local airport. I will get a jetblue credit card and give up my sw one. I loved that SW credits didnt expire and I loved how simple it is to book with points but if points wont cover flight costs I wont fly SW. Delta gives you a companian pass every year plus seat upgrades. SW doesnt.
We have been flying Southwest for a number of years due to the free checked bags and the amount of stress that that saves. Not having to worry about what is the baggage fee and trying to calculate that into the cost of the ticket and how many bags were going to need I was willing to pay a little bit more for the actual plane ticket to not have to worry about bags. All the other changes also negative in my opinion including the seating changes. We were loyal enough to buy enough gift cards for a year of travel with Southwest I just booked all the flights before the free bags went away and we will not be doing that again the free checked bags going away makes me no longer loyal. The change fees for the cheapest flights going forward changed my mom’s mind and no longer wants to be with them exclusively.
I’ve flown SW for years. Used their CC even though it’s my only pay to use card. Non stops are 6AM or 8PM. As soon as my points and flight credits are done, so am I. They will be on my do not fly list.
@Tim Dunn — It’s a fine hypothetical. And I’ve humored it as well, suggesting they do lie-flat. Bah. Then, it would be like having another jetBlue Mint in the market. Personally, I’d love that. Regardless of the enhanced seats (recliner or lie-flat), I doubt Southwest (or anyone) will fill their planes based on the expected market downturn. So, for Elliott Management’s sake, they better have hedged their bet here (and maybe that was their ‘play’ the whole time, which is why I still think this entire situation is one big ‘private equity induced death cycle’ for this once-beloved airline).
@Tom – You say you don’t check bags so you don’t care about the fees. But, I’m guessing you do care about having to compete for overhead bin space. On Southwest, that historically wasn’t a problem as many customers opted to check their bags. With checked bag fees, you’re going to start having new problems even if you are not, personally, checking a bag.
Specific case in point: Flying UA nonstop to DEN from SFO is less expensive than it is flying WN nonstop to DEN…but then, you’re on UA.
July 15 2025 (Tuesday):
WN Flight 2838 SFO-DEN –> $198 (departs 11:55 am)
WN Flight 1201 OAK-DEN –> $231 (departs 11:50 am)
UA Flight 1333 SFO-DEN –> $175 (departs 12:55 pm)
July 20 2025 (Sunday):
WN Flight 3739 DEN-SFO –> $295 (departs 5:35 pm)
WN Flight 454 DEN-OAK –> $347 (departs 7:45 pm)
UA Flight 1007 DEN-SFO –> $283 (departs 5:59 pm)
When I was younger, I frequently flew Southwest. The “cattle call” aspect never bothered me, and checking in 23:59 before take-off ensured me of getting one of those plastic cards with a low number on it. And, yes, it was worth the Early Bird check-in to get that low number on my boarding pass. But now, I’m older…I like airport lounges, more legroom, and a solid IFE (even if I have to stream it to my own device). There are three airlines that I have flown on 100+ times: WN (102), VX (131), and AS (123) — with flights on the latter two taking place after three-quarters of the Southwest flights. Things have indeed changed.
I will still fly them as long as I have a companion pass. Otherwise they will not be competitive with other airlines. Their prices are not lower by any means.
Free bags are great. They will lose customers over that change.
Flight credits expiring hurts them too. I will be way more cautious now.
Assigned seats will be good. This is my biggest gripe with SW currently. The damn miracle flight people. Why should they get on first and then the few that actually are impaired are slow as a turtle getting off holding up the rest of us. Most of them get off quickly since they were cured in flight. Being closer to their God in the sky I guess. Hopefully they will be assigned somewhere not in the front of the plane.
I think these moves will boost SW in the short term but will really hurt bad in the long term.
Southwest is now screaming the “Sky Is Falling.” Well, it brought the situation on it self:
– fares no different to the other Big Three; have not seen a real peanut fare in ages
– one simple announcement during boarding of, “Please take the first seat available, there are no Reserved seats” would have kept more in the fold
– boarding the Jesus Jetway after group “A” and “B” would have cut out another layer of irritation
– the B737 MAX of today has morphed to carry 30 to 40 more passengers compared to the 200 series when WN broke out of Texas during deregulation. The current boarding process is hopefully out of date.
– Falling to the very back of Group “A” or middle of “B”, even though you checked in at 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds prior to departure. Then dealing with the Jesus Jetway flock and “reserved” seats and ending up on the back row next to the toilets; NFW!!
– days of direct flights gone; now need to connect thru ATL, BWI, or HOU to get to Florida like the legacy carriers.
– jumping into Hawaii, only serving peanuts on a six hour flight, and now crying about losses from inter island flights.
As my parents would say, it’s your nest, now sit in it!!
We don’t fly very often, so having premium plans doesn’t make sense for us. But free checked bags was an important thing. Even one free checked bag would be better than what SW is now offering. If I have to pay added baggage fees, I’ll just choose another airline now. And we still aren’t being told how much SW is going to charge for a checked bag. I’m done with them.
How does one get to take the survey?
Because I have always flown Southwest and definitely would be interested in filling out the survey.
To tell them that EVERY change they’re making SUCKS!!
Just book your flights on a real airline, problem solved!
Too little, too late…working to liquidate my family’s RR points and then saying goodbye to WN. The only reason I’ll fly them in the future is if they are the sole option.
And I doubt I’m alone…
A survey, now ? …. Sadly, too little too late. ‘Putting the cart before the horse’. But to better paraphrase: ‘ That plane has already left the gate !’
I’m gonna say something that you guys might not like.
You’re abnormal.
You’re abnormal in the sense that if you’re commenting on this blog, you’re likely to fly way, way more often than the average person does.
The majority of Americans don’t fly, ever. They can’t afford it or they have no reason to. Of the people who do fly, few do so more than once or twice a year. They go on a vacation and visit family for the holidays and that’s it. If you fly more than that, you’re in a pretty small minority. You’re travelling on business, you’re retired, or you have a very good job with lots of time off.
The problem Southwest has is that *everyone* is trying to get a slice of that frequent flier pie. And it’s not a very big pie. Until Elliot got involved they understood that and had their attention trained on the much, much larger group of infrequent fliers. Their product was easy to understand, and it was relatively cheap. If you just see plane travel as a utility for long distance travel, a pain point you have to deal with to do the thing you actually want to do, cheap and easy to understand are really attractive things! Even their points system was easy to understand!
Contrary to what a lot of commenters here seem to think, it *does* make business sense to go after underserved markets. Some of the biggest and most well-known businesses were built on that concept. Until recently Southwest was the leading choice for infrequent fliers, by design – Herb Kelleher wanted to “democratize the skies”. Hopefully someone else will step in and fill that void.
Tim may not admit it but it looks like an elaborate conspiracy by Ed Bastian to infiltrate AA and WN board/management and do these things so that DL can just do the minimum to keep itself the premium option for travelers in this fine country.
@Aurochs – Your response would make a lot more sense if the people who fly most often didn’t make up a majority of the revenue that airlines earn from flight operations. Although it’s true that people who fly very frequently constitute only about 12% of all U.S. passengers, that same group contributes a whopping 70-75% of profits that airlines derive from flight operations according to reliable industry sources. We may be abnormal, but financially, we matter a whole lot to the bottom line than the unwashed masses.
For the past decade I’ve only flown Southwest, unless they didn’t go where I needed to go. On all the other airlines I’d have to pay to get a seat that I fit into, but Southwest had the most generous legroom. Now they’re like everyone else, and charging for all the things everyone else does. They’ve all made getting status impossible, even if you’re flying monthly, so why should I owe any loyalty to any airline anymore. I used to just go to Southwest’s website and book my trip. Now I’ll be shopping around with the other airlines. Probably going to cancel my Southwest credit card too before the next renewal…
Southwest Airlines is essentially infected with Ophiocordyceps unilateralis and will climb to a high point before unavoidable trouble.
“Hopefully those answers make it into the summaries seen by management and they get the message.”
They won’t. Corporations in America never take action until the stock tanks, and then it’s half-hearted, too-little-too-late action most of the time. SW will probably just slowly spiral downward like a 737 with a blown door plug until another airline gobbles it up and fire-sales it. That’s “The American Way.” Or at least it has been since the Reagan Years.
Very sad about the decision making at the top level of Southwest. After seeing bag fees from the other airlines, they wanted their piece of the pie. Like most at the top, they are clueless to what their customers really want. We patronize them to be a little different, they are still making money, but it’s never enough. Now they’ve thrown away the whole culture , and disenfranchised their customer base. Seeing the tone of these comments, yes they went way too far with dumb changes, not for the better.
The biggest problem I see is the pressure from this investment group to make current management change everything overnight. Current management likely carried out their plans rather than lose their jobs.
Changes of this magnitude have to be phased in gradually to not overwhelm their customer base and erode trust in one big implosion.
I predict that Southwest will become the next spirit airlines likely bankrupt and or merged
It’s just a matter of when.Now throw in a possible recession and they are toast.
The timing is unfortunate
The recent changes to Southwest remind me of “new Coke”, if you’re old enough to remember that fiasco.
I worked for a Southwest competitor for 10+ years and despite the discount from my own airline when I purchased tickets it was most often with Southwest. That’s even though I haven’t voluntarily checked a bag in years (occasionally have to gate check.) With assigned seating meaning more competition for bin space, expiring credits, and the devaluation of Rapid Rewards I have no reason to keep flying with them. Plus I loathe everything Elliot has done to their company culture. I’ll still shop them, but I’m way more likely to fly my own airline now. Southwest is cringe….