Southwest Airlines doesn’t just assign – and charge for – seats now, they enforce assigned seating more strictly than other airlines. Customers and flight attendants report:
- When there are plenty of empty rows, passengers can’t spread out and leave their assigned seats.
- When passengers are in the aisle and middle, neither can occupy the unassigned aisle.
- They can’t even move back from paid extra legroom seats to an empty row in regular coach.
- And gate agents aren’t supposed to change seat assignments within 30 minutes of departure.
At Delta, by contrast, the official policy is that you can move to empty seats as long as those seats are in the same cabin. No self-upgrading, but spreading out is fine (subject to following flight attendant instructions).
But it’s not just assigned seating that’s the problem. This policy is part and parcel of “the new ‘uptight’ airline<.”
“Southwest used to be a fun, different flying experience.”
“how in the world Southwest got more restrictive and more uptight than the airlines that they have been making fun of all these years.”
“it’s not the changes themselves that are the issues, it’s the almost 180 turn from a customer focused “have an enjoyable time” experience”
Southwest CEO Bob Jordan dismisses concerns that they’ve become just like every other airline now that they expire travel credits, charge for bags and seats, and offer an extra legroom product (that’s less premium than other airlines, without AC power or seat back entertainment let alone first class or meals).
He says that it’s their people that remain their differentiator, “our people and their heart for serving our customers” is “the greatest competitive advantage that Southwest has.”
- Of course before these changes, the way he described it was “empowering our people to deliver unrivaled hospitality.”
- Now, they are “the only airline yelling at passengers to stay in their seats” according to passengers. The airline has, essentially, told flight attendants to be inhospitable.
And why would the playful fun culture survive Covid which saw 20% turnover in staff and the 2022 meltdown, where so many employees didn’t even remember a better time at the company?
Why would it survive a complete upending of the airline’s business model? And the departure of top executives like Ryan Green, Tammy Romo and Jonathan Clarkson?
Why would it survive layoffs that CEO Jordan announced during the airline’s Q4 earnings call that he was proud of? From his prepared remarks listing accomplishments during the quarter:
Outperformed our $370 million cost reduction target for 2025, including the first layoff of non-contract and management employees.
In Q&A during that call on cost savings he offered,
We did our first corporate layoff, which was tough. But what I can tell you is nothing broke. The company, if anything, is moving faster. ..our corporate overhead will be down, headcount will be down again this year.
Here’s what the culture Herb Kelleher built used to look like. It’s taken decades to destroy.
Here’s a flight attendant truly loving her job and offering her announcements in a rap. Her colleague gives a bit of side eye but eventually gets into it too, stomping a foot and clapping at the end:
Rapping @SouthwestAir flight attendant 🔥🔥🔥😍😍😍 pic.twitter.com/737srEEDV8
— Mike Ellis (@TheMikeEllis) August 5, 2023
There’s a long history of Southwest Airlines flight attendants rapping their announcements. None is more famous than David Holmes.
The biggest change isn’t the end of what Southwest used to call ‘transfarency’ or the devaluation of Rapid Rewards points. It’s management making flight attendants seat police, and it’s moves that have taken the fun out of working at the airline. There are still great cabin crew out there! But, despite Bob Jordan’s protestations, the culture of Southwest Airlines is not what it used to be. This more than anything else is what they took from us.
Never flying LUV again. It’s MAGA all over – cruel, senseless, and power/profit driven. I’d rather give Delta or United $5 more (though often they are cheaper) or suffer through Frontier than give SW my DIA-based business.
This is simply the learning curve. SW flight attendants have never dealt with enforcing seating assignments, and I’ll bet “Dollars to Doughnuts” they got lots of communications in the lead-up, telling them to not let passengers change seats, particularly from the “cheap” ones to the “upgraded”.
Now they are trying to implement this new edict with no previous experience. They’ll get better over time – and changing seats (when reasonable – one row forward or back, or slide from the middle to an empty window) will be okay.
This is just something they have never done before (enforce seat assignments) and it shows.
The LUV flight attendants are dishing out what management wants to save their jobs, the same as Bob Jordan does for Elliott. The passengers are getting an experience that is not like they had before so of course they are complaining about it.
Perfect example of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” ….yes they tried to fix it, and failed miserably.. despite what Bob Jordan said, Southwest IS now like any other airline, except worse..and btw there are plenty great crew on other airlines so despite what he said, that is not a differentiator for sw
Southwest?
Are they still in business?
Aren’t they the airline that self destructed?
When you fly frequently, the messages from the FA’s and pilots tend to become background noise that you’ve heard dozens of times before. With the “old” Southwest you almost felt compelled to listen, simply to catch the latest twist on how they made the mandatory announcements. Yes, much of it was truly groan-inducing, but they demonstrated that it was possible to both treat safety precautions seriously while reinforcing the “fun” part about flying with them. One of my favorites was one pre-landing announcements where the FA said “to those of you on the left side of the plane, we’re about to fly over a local landmark, hold on it’s coming up, hold on, there it is – that’s my house!!”. The only reason I’ll fly Southwest one last time is because I have one of their gift cards from Costco that still has a balance on it (unless I just sell it online instead). RIP Southwest, it was good while it lasted.
Sadly, Southwest is seeking and achieving the worst of both worlds. There’s little redeeming value in its shifts, except for providing fodder for a business school case study of failed corporate strategy.
PEOPLExpress 2.0… from industry darling to defunct in the blink of an eye.
But the previously moribund stock has climbed 60% — and the hedge fund guys cashed out with a premium. Such is success in our country these days … and seeds for discontent in the community.
Is it really surprising that after spending vast amounts of time and effort to destroy pretty much everything that made Southwest different, they’re succeeding?
I quit flying SWA in March 2025 -I saw such a problem a year ago – the flight attendants were miserable – they were horrendous. The gate agents were on the extreme edge of a psychotic breakdown. And I can go on and on – but this airline is GOING to FAIL if they continue this way – and HONESTLY perhaps it is time to fail – let it be. Spirit was SO happy, perhaps they take over the SWA airline model and Spirit will become the next SWA – love that idea!!!!
So the corny joking around, the encouraging of interaction with the whole plane, the in-flight nonsense, all that is gone? Good!
its pretty simple.. if you want a better seat you need to pay for it.. tell me is it really fair that
people that pay for better seats pay and if you just move up there not paying . come on folks.
if you want and upgraded seat just pay.. simple as that
I just love Jon Smiths comment above. Not only does he NOT use a real name, his mojo is wishing others out of a job. Sorry friend buts that’s not constructive at all. Not all workers are miserable. Ok you had a bad experience. Everyone has bad days. Not excusing poor behavior or treatment but give some grace. If you are unable to do that than by all means go have fun on Spirit.
Bob Jordan did not destroy the House that Herb and Colleen built. GK started the downhill roll and might just as well have sent a personal engraved invitation to the Predator. He tried his best over his tenure to get assigned seats and you could practically see on his face how much he hated the old Bags Fly Free. And then, when Colleen Barrett passed away, the Predator swooped in like a Vulture after it’s prey. Now they are skulking away having reaped the spoils.
Jordan is not in an easy position. He was dumped on by GK and then threatened by the Predator to do what he was told or else. Now he is left with changes that have made most passengers unhappy, employees stressed, and actually left hanging by the Predator. The most exasperating thing here is that GK got his wish even though he is no longer in the picture. The only thing missing would be a designated First Class which Kelly truly wanted because he never liked flying with the riffraff in the back. The moment he took over he was determined to tear apart what Herb and Colleen made so successful. But he was applauded by the important in their own mind set who are still finding things to complain about.
In the words of Herb Kelleher, “Make sure your Employees are Happy, and they will make sure the Customer is Happy. And the Customer will come back again and again.”
“Here’s what the culture Herb Kelleher built used to look like. It’s taken decades to destroy.”
Decades to build, overnight to destroy…
Good to read. I’m flying next month and will be expecting super hard A flight attendants.
The sky is falling, southwest is D.U.N. done, MAGA this MAGA that…. Blah, blah blah.
I’d bet @Bill Carson has a great flight.
These comments are proof that selfish people never end. It’s rare someone gets the opportunity to move to another seat these days that used to be common years ago. Just like children, someone is afraid they are going to get the same thing everyone else did or it’s me first… me first. These are the same people who would trade a seat.
to be fair, JetBlue doesn’t allow you to change seats either.
I used to fly Southwest almost exclusively. it flew out of a regional airport that was far more convenient than the closest metropolitan airport. But their fares are now more expensive than flying a more featured airline and the premium Chase credit card that I was paying for just doesn’t have the benefits anymore. When it’s up for renewal I will be canceling it.
My son and I frequently fly to different cities to go to baseball games. if that City doesn’t have a domed stadium, I don’t know if the game is going to be played, in which case we would like to stay for another day or two. under Southwest old policies, that stress was relieved because I could easily change a flight that’s not the case anymore. Their CEO can gaslight all he wants, but the fact remains, they’re now more expensive for an inferior product. We were all willing to accept an inferior product for less cost, but it’s simply not the case anymore.
I’m sure I’ll still fly Southwest from time to time, but that will only be if it’s the only choice.
The miraculous pre-boarders KILLED the fun.
With our new assigned seating you can change your seat via the app from the point you check in up to 24 hours up to one hour prior to departure. That gives you 23 hours to view other seats and make changes as needed! Assigned Seating is new to all of our employees;!
Can you say TWA, PanAm, Virgin, Continental? ByeFelicia.
The sad truth is that none of this has anything to do with Southwest management and everything to do with Elliott. You can’t blame Southwest for choices it makes with a gun to their head. If anything, we should credit them for salvaging what little of their soul they could despite being put into an impossible position.
Elliott never once cared about the culture or the long-term viability of Southwest Airlines. It was a short term play to make money in the stock market. Southwest was just a useful vessel and its demise was collateral damage. What angers me is that people are directing their frustrations at Southwest when it would be far more productive to direct that anger toward the economic systems we have in place that incentivize this behavior.
@JuliaZ
LUV today is nothing what MAGA represents.
In fact, it is what the USA will look like if left-wing socialists continue to take root and grow. No choice, just government imposed options that you can’t complain about.
But the sad part is most won’t know it’s here until it’s too late.
Read 1984.
“its pretty simple.. if you want a better seat you need to pay for it.. tell me is it really fair that
people that pay for better seats pay and if you just move up there not paying . come on folks.
if you want and upgraded seat just pay.. simple as that”
I think you miss an important point. We’re not talking about people upgrading their seat, necessarily. DL allows you to move to an open coach seat, but not from regular coach to extra-legroom coach. Yes, ban self upgrading. But, forcing a pax in 12B to stay there and not take the empty 12C is silly (even if 12C would have cost a bit more to reserve), particularly if 12A is occupied.
Kurt – maybe you are the one who should take to heart the lessons in 1984 because it is MAGA who continually lies, and takes pride in lying, about virtually everything despite video and written evidence to the contrary. And gaslighting, as you just did.
If we doing book club on here, might as well add Brave New World to the list..
Kurt, I agree with Tired of idiots post above. Note my name.
This is more of what has happened to society. During the early years of Southwest they were the airline for families finding that flying could be cheaper and faster than driving 10-12 hours. Back then few would have thought of gaming the boarding system pretending to be disabled. Few would have thought about putting their phone on speaker (granted early cell phones did not have that option) to scream back at Jed, Granny, Jethro and Elliemae they were on an airplane!
I doubt that if I could not afford premium fares (and even then you sometimes get boorish behavior) and entrance into lounges (ditto what I said before and even than some) I’d ever step anywhere near an airport.
You cannot blame Elliott for everything. They came in as an activist investor but they never had %50 of the stock plus one stock to have a true majority. They made sure that they had other directors on their side so that they could get their way. Those other directors that went along with Elliott are just as much to blame for the situation. When Elliott came in, they found Bob Jordan agreeable so they kept him. If the board of directors and Bob Jordan really wanted to oppose Elliott when Elliot came in, they could have done it and there would have been a proxy fight.
The seat issue is just a side show in the scheme of things. Even if the FA’s were their traditional fun and helpful selves, the negatives are a lot to overcome.
I’m hard pushed to understand who SW target market is. As Gary has detailed multiple times, they are missing many of the perks available among the majors, first class, lounges, seat back entertainment, aspirational redemption opportunities etc. So why would a frequent flyer choose them?
Their policies are now even with or worst in class: Expiring credits, even to the point of expiring the $5.60 fee on award tickets, bag fees, seat fees, no meals even on seriously long flights like to Hawaii. Their overhead bins are frequently smaller than the competition which means more people compelled to check bags at the gate. For domestic flights their loyalty program often offers the worst value, even worse than Sky Pesos.
For infrequent, price sensitive flyers, I rarely see SW priced below the competition and it’s often more.
As someone living in Dallas, the only reasons to fly them are to burn off my remaining miles, and because Love Field is a shorter drive.
When you boil it down, what’s left, convenient schedule and decent on time performance. That’s not nothing, but it doesn’t seem like a path to sustained growth and profitability.
Excerpts from a substack post on “When Air Travel Becomes a Battlefield in America’s Collapsing Social Contract” could be considered when related to some of Southwest’s continuing struggles in transitional response to market pressure.
“That transformation… coincided with the broader financialization of American life [as] airlines [increasingly] became focused on extracting maximum value rather than serving their ostensible mission. The result is a society where basic social contracts have been shredded…”
One might “ask why American commercial aviation has devolved into a barely functional system that treats paying customers as potential threats.”
“…American institutions have created an environment where basic civility and shared expectations have been systematically eroded… [where] airlines treat passengers like potential terrorists…”
https://open.substack.com/pub/justicemoms/p/the-laguardia-incident-when-air-travel?r=3dwni&utm_medium=ios