A reader flew Delta business class from New York to Europe where he had a run-in with a flight attendant at the end of the trip – and now he’s worried about being banned from the airline. Yet he says he’s the one that was mistreated!
A couple of weeks ago, at the end of the flight, he was sleeping with an eye mask on. Beds have to be moved into their upright position for landing. The flight attendant didn’t gently wake him and ask him to move the seat, he says. She just began adjusting the seat herself.
He woke up, took off his eye mask, and “spontaneously reached out to their hand pressing the button.” He was startled and he laid hands on the flight attendant, who asked the captain to have police meet the aircraft on arrival.
- He thought the crewmember abruptly repositioning his seat was rude
- And reaching for the flight attendant’s hand was a reflex, after being startled awake
Now he’s worried about potentially being banned from travel on Delta Air Lines (Delta’s CEO has also proposed that a ban from one airline should be a ban from all airlines).
I must say that I felt incredibly mistreated by the staff with little or no say in this ordeal. Are you aware of any resources or similar cases where passenger rights are being completely ignored and flight attendants misusing their power? Do you have any recommendations for how to follow up with Delta re potential flight bans ?
He’s actually in a potentially tough spot with the airline. They are likely to just believe their own employee. But he doesn’t know if he’s getting banned. My inclination is to just let it go, unless they ban him, but in the meantime to check on the status of any future booked trips with the airline (and to continue doing so up until date of travel).
While my first thought was to proactively submit a complaint about the flight attendant, and even to do so through DOT, that could raise the stakes and make the incident more focal within the company – and trigger the very ban he’s worried about. So I’d just wait and see how it plays out.
Misunderstandings aren’t uncommon. While flight crew can be traumatized by their interactions with passengers (goodness knows there are plenty of awful passengers), there’s a real power imbalance not just in the cabin but with law enforcement responses as well. United, I have to say, did a really good job after the David Dao incident with de-escalation training for crew. (I was skeptical at the time.) This served them well throughout the pandemic when passenger incidents hit new heights.
I’d say this passenger was wrong for grabbing at the flight attendant’s hand, though I suppose it can be jarring to be woken like that, and the situation could have been handled better all around.
Fragile leftist Gen y/z snowflakes think getting their hand grabbed is traumatic? Give me a break. Somehow I think you’ll survive. Everyone wants to declare themselves a victim.
I’m so tired of what this country has become. I’m looking forward to moving abroad, to a country that doesn’t believe touching a hand is assault, playing dressup makes you a woman, and enforcing border laws is racist.
A bit shameful to just casually mention that even attempting to file a complaint through the official process could trigger a ban. Almost as if you are in support of retaliation.
Planes need cabin video now.
You startle someone awake, don’t be surprised if they don’t exactly behave perfectly. There’s a period where there’s an animal reaction before the brain is fully online.
Why is the customer at fault? He was sleeping, very common in a lie flat seat, with an eye ask on and someone starts messing with his seat. I think we all would have a similar reaction in the same situation.
Totally agree with you@Mantis!
Two things: the passenger should consider using his cellphone alarm to wake him at the necessary tine and the FA should never raise the bed/seat/whatever for a passenger – especially one that is asleep. The passenger’s health condition is not known and, if for example, the PAX had undergone a recent back surgery of sone kind, well….this would likely get his attention and startle him. A quick reaction to stop the hand pressing the button that was becoming the entire source if pain in this scenario is very understandable.
The FA also needs to not be such a witch in the matter. It seems that there are sone FA who are really overdramatizing certain situations. I doubt this passenger broke a finger and with minimal explanation and an apology, it should have ended. Therewas no need to involve LEO in this matter. Discernment is critical and I doubt the FA knows this.
Derek – cabin videos now?
The objective is to NOT become the police state that China currently is.
The FA is lucky that wasn’t a Spec Ops or recent combat vet. For many, the response would have been a lot more aggressive.
It is a self protection reflex.
FA should be retrained.
@ Gary — If this passenger is a veteran with PTSD, Delta better back off or they will regret the massive settlement they will face.
@Mantis given the average age of flight attendants at legacy US airlines, I assume a boomer like yourself is repsonsible for this. Have fun on your flight to a new country though! Hopefully you get the upgrade.
Every os often when I fly iternational business or first I’m fortunate enough to be still sleeping when it’s time to raise the seat. Flight attendants have run their hand along my arm to wake me up. I’d always assumed that’s what they’re trained to do. Perhaps in this care, that’s what the FA did and moved to Plan B when the passenger was sleeping so deeply that he didn’t respond to the light touch. In any case, an obviously reflexive reaction was no excuse for the FA to do anything other than to tell the passenger she/he was just trying to wake for landing.
Not so sure that we are getting the correct story here. If the passenger was indeed sleeping with an eye mask on, it seems unlikely that he instinctively grabbed a hand that was on the button adjusting the seat. I certainly would not know, by instinct (immediately upon waking), where the button was to adjust the seat while unable to see. I expect that either he removed the mask and grabbed the hand (not instinctively) or he reacted instinctively while unable to see and made contact with more than just the hand of the flight attendant (and if the FA was leaning over them, it might not have been an appropriate body part to be touching). I can’t see any way this went down as they have claimed.
Not so sure that we are getting the correct story here. If the passenger was indeed sleeping with an eye mask on, it seems unlikely that he instinctively grabbed a hand that was on the button adjusting the seat. I certainly would not know, by instinct (immediately upon waking), where the button was to adjust the seat while unable to see. I expect that either he removed the mask and grabbed the hand (not instinctively) or he reacted instinctively while unable to see and made contact with more than just the hand of the flight attendant (and if the FA was leaning over them, it might not have been an appropriate body part to be touching). I can’t see any way this went down as they have claimed.
Sorry, I misread. Still don’t think that this was reflex after he had the presence of mind to remove the mask and find the hand, wherever it was and grab them.
@farnorthtrader – Agreed 100%. If he was thinking clearly enough to take off the mask, he should’ve been able to think clearly enough to not touch the FA.
Here’s a big one – if the police showed up, request a copy of the incident/police report. Since the passenger did not sleep in a jail cell that night, im sure it wont have unfavorable details.
It SEEMS to me that BOTH the FA and the passenger were at reasonable fault. Wonder how it will play out in the end with “consequences”…or not.
@Mantis
I’ll stand in line with other folks to put my boot up your ass to get you closer to your goal!
I agree 100% with Gene. If this person is a Veteran with PTSD then Delta better get their checkbook ready. Most of the red eye flights I’ve been on wake passengers by turning up lights (which in this case wouldn’t have been effective) or make announcements for landing . . . quite a few annoying announcements as I recall.
I’m with Reg.
If it happened as reported above, what a silly FA reaction. This should have lead to an apology by the pax, and a chuckle from each for the misunderstanding. Of course, we are getting a report from one party with a desire to have his spin on it.
Could be that the passenger’s overreaction came across as not just startled but angry. That is the only way the FA getting so upset about it makes sense.
@Mantis… and assumes every incident or someone who disagrees with you is a “Fragile leftist Gen y/z snowflake”.
Do YOU always interject stuff like that into your daily conversations.
Geezzz… GIVE IT A REST.
Maybe she thought the passenger was Jewish and somehow offensive to her Palestinian loyalties.
Seriously, I bet there is more to this story.
When I was in the military, when on QC duty and awakening someone out of a sound sleep, we were told to grasp a toe and gently shake them awake. One wise guy did like the FA and just jolted him awake; the guy came up out of the bed and cold cocked the QC. Nothing could be done about it we had been warned that people aren’t responsible when first awakened
I’m a psychotherapist who works with PTSD survivors and I can tell you now that crew should NOT be touching passengers who look asleep. Tapping the seat or door of the suite but NEVER touch a sleeping person. They’re lucky he didn’t strike out and do more serious harm.
I was in a BA club suite recently and the crew shook me to wake me for breakfast. This is a huge and I mean HUGE incident and lawsuit waiting to happen.
Flight crews need training on this.
No touching sleeping passengers or adjusting their seats without waking them by tapping their seat!!!!
I was a Flight Attendant from 1974 -1990 with Eastern Airlines and in my opinion, the Flight Attendant was in the wrong. Please try to wake the passengers before adjusting the seat. My late husband served in the Marine Corps in Vietnam and if he was startled at night, he might swing his arms in reaction. You have no idea what that passengers history is and to be startled awake in not a good idea , plus it’s rude.
I was in Delta Business class during covid late Dec. 2021, flying over night to Paris. I was fast asleep and my face mask had slipped down a bit. FA and she shook me awake. I was obiously startled. I jumped out of my skin. She told me to put my mask back on.
I told her in no polite terms that if she touches me again, I would rip her effing arm off and beat her with the bloody end. Then I went back to sleep. She knew she was in the wrong for touching me. She didn’t bother me again the rest of the flight.
There are other airlines, Delta isn’t the end all, be all.
Mantis I hope that Saint Petersburg or Minsk works out for you.
If a ban is imposed the notice will be sent within a few weeks: https://www.coreysdigs.com/law-order/exclusive-delta-airlines-and-tsa-target-intimidate-a-passenger-without-cause/
People get defensive when they are attacked when sleeping. It is a self defence mechanism.
Being banned from DL should be regarded as a blessing. Horrid airline with horrid FAs, horrid gate staff, horrid customer service, and a horrid CEO.
Most customers lie and misportray the situation. There is more to this story believe me. Are there FA’s with attitude? You bet. But it’s the passengers recounting that is most always misaligned with the facts.
You don’t have to be a veteran to have PTSD. That said, was anyone injured? Could an apology not be extended by both parties? Why does a simple human reaction have to make headlines? Everything seems to be blown out of proportion these days. A statement once said “Can’t we all just get along?”
At this point we should all just stay home. Why bother according to everything we read?
Agreeing with others, assuming the passenger isn’t lying (and didn’t crush her hand then jump up yelling and slap her too), it’s human to jump at something if you’re startled awake. If he was just legitimately startled and grabbed her hand, she needs to calm down and find something better to occupy her time with.
I got startled awake years ago by a noise or something, but wasn’t fully awake and grabbed my partner so hard she had to shake me and say “it’s me, it’s okay!” Obviously once my brain clicked on and I realized what was going on, I let go and everything was fine.
Have flown for over 60 years. Today’s flight attendants have become power-drunk dictators, instead of service providers.
The flight attendant is wrong. You never startle awake someone.
LMAO this story is such BS !!! And anyone that believes this is an idiot!
It amazes me that each seat doesn’t have an alarm that can be remotely activated by the FA if the seat needs to be raised. Somebody else recommend cameras in the cabins. Also an excellent idea.
The FA should be thankful she wasn’t decked in the jaw for startling the person.
Let’s not forget that by the time the FA raised the seat, there were multiple announcements that they were on descent and also that they were on final descent and that seats had to be raised.
As others have noted, you don’t instinctively reach for the seat controls if you are really deeply asleep.
The guy didn’t want to comply and was not deep enough sleep to be oblivious to everything else that was going on – and if he was, pushing the controls on the seat are absolutely fare game to get him back to the land of the living.
and for the umpteenth time, the FA did not touch the passenger – as just about every FA knows not to do. She raised the seat which is what was required. The FAA requirements say only that the seat has to be upright and the seatbelt fastened – but says nothing about the state of the passenger.
Boring fake reader with a fake story.
Bye Felicia.