In a huge blow to the testing industry, a negative Covid-19 test will no longer be required to fly to the U.S. for departures starting Sunday at midnight. The rule made little sense, and contributed little, but created hassle and uncertainty for travelers.
- Flying to the U.S. today or Saturday? You still have to have a negative test. This makes no sense.
- There are virtually zero Covid-19 mitigation measures in the U.S. except this one This made no sense.
- The testing requirement didn’t serve to keep variants out of the U.S. They didn’t keep people with Covid-19 out of the country (an antigen test the day before travel was enough) and variants co-evolve in the U.S> as well.
- It wasn’t ever required for land crossings, so people could fly to Mexico or Canada and then drive across the border without a test.
- We now have vaccines and treatments and hospital capacity isn’t stretched as it has been at some points during the pandemic.
Even Australia lifted its testing requirement, but the U.S. held onto it and little else. But somehow the CDC “determined that the science and data mean the tests are no longer necessary” which implies that until now they believed “the science and data” meant the measure was necessary but never explained why or how. Or why and how no testing requirement was supported by the science for land crossings.
While I’m sure that the name calling and grand standing is fun for some, I wish that someone would address my question about how this change in policy will interact with trip insurance (especially travel delay coverage).
@James N
Jimmy, since this is over now we’re hoping we won’t hear from you again. As you’re a scientific genius you can find some other thing to be negative about. Even though you’re a discredited fool and don’t even fly I’m sure you will delight us about some other distorted facts. Bad luck with that.
Sleepy Joe changed the policy not due to pressure from the travel industry, but due to the midterms coming up. We are paying more than $5 gal for gas, higher food prices, higher rents, stock market is tanking, consumer confidence in the toilet. He had to do something, anything to get some positive news out there. He could give a rats ass about inconveniences, time, monies his policy was causing the average traveler, because after all none of these rules apply to Air Force 1.
GU wonder you never cease to amaze me. This time you were able to incorporate Sara Palin and Donald Trump into a blog post that has nothing to do with either. But then again that is you MO.
Also did you ever think about just how silly it is to get tested and mask up for an international flight but have to do neither when you transfer in the US to a domestic connection?
Oh, goody, another comment from the idiot, Rog. A true believer and too dumb to figure out he’s been the victim of a giant fraud. Unfortunately, there’s little chance he’ll ever admit his failure. Much like the rest of the compliant, servile masses.
Glad to save that 30 minutes and $20 now that tests are no longer required?
Of course, with 200 people of your 10 hour flight home, odds are pretty good you”ll have between 1-4 infected people on the plane with you. But not the woman next to you-she looks healthy.
@ Aaron M
Toda raba!
@ Will (Tokyo)
Thanks for the feedback!
FWIW IMHO @ Gary has a unique voice in the travel blog arena, which can be useful when he’s on topic, although he is oddly silent when challenged.
@ Gennady
“GUWonder – I have no idea why you’d bring Palin or bridge to Russia into this conversation, must be some kind of your own personal obsession.”
For balance, it seems a number of posters herein are festering t*TRUMPettes eager to “Brandonize” the debate, no? (check out @ CMorgan’s completely off topic posts for example).
Palin was the quintessential dumb Republican of recent times. She was so lame that she couldn’t string a sentence. Arguably, the destroyer of the last decent Republican (John McCain – who t*UMP went on to disrespect so badly that he lost Arizona in the last presidential election) and, it is claimed, the American politician who started the rot of shamelessly chanting mistruths for her own political end, a sort pre-t*RUMP!
In all, she seems quite an appropriate and quick reference as a counter to much of the right wing inspired mistruths and anti-science/medicine drivel on this thread.
“My point, however, – which you never addressed – is total lack of logic in requiring the test while going across the water, but not over the land.”
A good question – per my comment addressed to @ Gary above, the practical reality is that airlines servicing incoming international flights had been charged with policing test results (and vaccination records) before passengers could check into their flight, government had basically outsourced that function in the case of international air arrivals.
One suspects a call has been made that there wasn’t a practical alternative for land arrivals. What do you think?
“ Your post…talk about conversation-killer. Next time, just publish a book”
Oops, sorry mate, trying to inject some science-based rationale into the frame, so folk can agree or disagree through some sort of logical process! BTW book almost finished…;)
@ CMorgan
“Also did you ever think about just how silly it is to get tested and mask up for an international flight but have to do neither when you transfer in the US to a domestic connection?”
Did you ever think about…oops, sorry, I’ll start writing this sentence again without the presumption…it may be quite simple – the government could exercise more control over non-US citizen / resident international arrivals than that over US citizens and residents.
After all, we’re dealing with a population uniquely insistent upon their personal freedoms over the health and wellbeing of others, let alone a stridently vocal proportion of the community who is variously ignorant of matters scientific and medical, religiously disposed against rational science (creationism anyone?), and who has been stirred into irrational positions and denigration of science and medicine by opportunistic politicians.
In short, strategic disease control measures have been persistently compromised until sub optimal. The results of such are stark when you compare the data between countries – differential vaccination rates, mortality, etc.
The solution was and still is to encourage higher rates of vaccination, so that vaccination can do the heavy lifting in controlling the virus.
Ironically, those herein who resist vaccination are going to have a hard time travelling overseas when they discover they need to be vaccinated to get on the plane to travel to another country! They only get to stay in the USA – thank goodness for that!
@ James N
“he’s been the victim of a giant fraud. Unfortunately, there’s little chance he’ll ever admit his failure. Much like the rest of the compliant, servile masses.”
And that, my friends, is the sound of somebody spewing stupid comments with a diaper wrapped around their face, with a brain washed with bleach and claiming that mobile phones can magnetically stick to arm where the complaint servile masses had their vaccinations.
Thank goodness he’ll never be accepted as an arrival in another country (without his vaccination).
Platy still a lib left A$$ Breathe Free you get it …SO true JIT for the Primaries and Mid Terms
“Thank goodness he’ll never be accepted as an arrival in another country (without his vaccination).”
Wrong again, fool. There are dozens of countries that will accept those of us who didn’t succumb to the propaganda, and get injected with an untested, clearly ineffective, “vaccine “. With everything we now know, it’s embarrassing to see the number of people who still support the lies. Maybe someday you’ll finally wake up.
Gennady,
I’ve taken over 200 international trips between March 2020 to June 2022. Masks and testing didn’t bother me as much as the kind of nonsense that I have been observing while crossing borders since mid-September 2001 and that continues even now. My nostrils didn’t enjoy the swabbing, but such is life that it includes things that are to be tolerated anyway.
@ James N
Lucky you! You can visit about 10% of the world’s nations (but, shame, not the other 90%). Break out the bunting. Pop those champagne corks.
Now, if you run into any scientists on your travels be sure to use basic terms like “tested” and “effective” with their defined meaning in the context of vaccines, we wouldn’t want you to embarrass yourself in real life outside of the confines of a travel blog commentariat, now would we? Some folk you meet might accidentally mistake your ignorance for insanity.
Now be sure to check the airline’s vaccination policy (as well as any country you’re hoping to visit) and mask policy (or in your case, bring your own diapers) and double check that your travel insurance doesn’t have any special terms for the unvaccinated.
Please report back – we’d love to hear all about your travel adventures. But are you really sure it’s safe to fly? The odds of dying by plane crash are roughly the same as dying from an adverse reaction from a COVID vaccine.
As always, hearing the mask and testing clowns like @GUWonder squeal and shriek over the loss of their lord and savior COVID brings me joy. What’s particularly amusing is that typically these same people would be screeching over the evils and greed of “Big Pharma,” but all is good if the cause is “just” (meaning the argee with it of course).
Oh well, if it weren’t for double standards, these laughable fools would have no standards at all…
@ Magnifico
That’s so cultishly cute.
I mean your diatribe has all the potential for a cult to inspire your braindead brethren of dumb denialists crying freedom from the shackles of reason and logic.
Savour those references to lords and saviours, evils, greed, “just” causes, bringers of joy. Just tell the faithful flock what to think and they’ll latch onto it with the urgent penitence of hirudineans suckered onto the skin of a hemophiliac. Only, in your version of heaven, the standards are flying at half mast, they’re tripping over the bodies of the COVID dead and there’s still a queue at the gates. Something about the religious zealots and political opportunists stirring up the unthinking masses into denial. Didn’t get the message that the virus is real, it kills, that it can be stopped through some very simple steps.
@GUWonder said “200 international trips between March 2020 to June 2022”
Sorry, mate, I don’t believe you. That’s 7 trips per month for 27 mos? No way (unless you go to Canada or Mexico for a day).
And the point is not how many trips you took…It’s how many times have you tested positive, have been quarantined, and therefore had your travel plans, and life plans, ruined…needlessly, imho.
@platy – I know full well who Palin is. I didn’t see any need to bring her into the conversation, as it added nothing.
Palin certainly is not the first dumb politician to make a fool of herself. Need I remind you of congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Houston), who famously asked for pictures of the American flag planted on Mars by Neil Armstrong. Or Hand Johnson (D-Atlanta) who was concerned that Guam was in danger of tipping over and capsizing.
Regardless, I injected zero politics into my opposition to the requirements for tests (finally eliminate). Mine, just like Gary’s, were based purely on logic and experience. And one doesn’t need to be a doctor, epidemiologist, etc. to use logic.
One comment on style, or form – as you’re “trying to inject some science-based rationale”, you’ll probably do better by replying to each person individually, in a separate post. Makes it easier to read, follow and reply.
Just my $0.02
@Sam “Glad to save that 30 minutes and $20 now that tests are no longer required”
Clearly, you have no clue. It can take hours out of your last day abroad, and cost a small fortune (esp. if traveling with family). We paid $90/pp at time. Not even talking about disruptions and problems if the test comes back positive (something which happens a lot, esp. with Ellume proctored home tests). Yes, it did happen to us.
“Of course, with 200 people of your 10 hour flight home, odds are pretty good you”ll have between 1-4 infected people on the plane with you. But not the woman next to you-she looks healthy.”
Another idiotic comment. Thousands of people get infected daily, and only a small portion of them have traveled by plane. It has been show many times since the pandemic started that your chances of getting infected on the airplane, where air is cleaned by HEPA filters, and is circulated all the time (like every minute or two), is so minuscule it’s almost negligible…but some continue to be concerned about “1-4 infected people on the plane”. Just plane stupid, if you ask me…
@ Gennady
“I know full well who Palin is. I didn’t see any need to bring her into the conversation, as it added nothing.”
Sure. I know you know. I agree would be preferable for all of us to be on topic. Just having fun with the counterpoint…;)
“And one doesn’t need to be a doctor, epidemiologist, etc. to use logic.”
No you don’t have to be – and FWIW I’ve met medical doctors with very linear thinking. But some herein don’t back the logical process with the researched data. My suspicion is that most of us would agree with each other most of the time, but somehow difference becomes the focus.
” replying to each person individually, in a separate post. Makes it easier to read, follow and reply”
Thanks, mate. Be well.
Squeal harder @play. I like it…
Dr. Gen day-
Thanks for you astute observations. Oh wait-I spelled that wrong.
Took me 30 minutes and $20 last November. You should read up to be better informed.
Yes, few have been infected on planes. As far as we know. Now let’s see-oh- there were COVID tests before those international flights weren’t there? Gee, Wally, that’s different.
Reading comments like these remind me of the actuary who told me that monkeys at typewriters will someday reproduce Shakespeare.
@ Magnifico
Fecit potentiam in brachio suo, dispersit superbos mente cordis sui…
@ Gennady
All depends upon your vaccination rate.
“Thousands of people get infected daily, and only a small portion of them have traveled by plane.”
If folk are vaccinated on the aircraft and the population has a high vaccination rate, then testing is moot. That’s the point. The relativity of where people contract the virus is simply not an issue because control measures (primarily vaccination) are in place.
But each infected has the potential to spread the virus exponentially WITHOUT controls in place. Each infected person is effectively a patient zero for their own virus – every infection counts when you map the downstream impact.
“your chances of getting infected on the airplane, where air is cleaned by HEPA filters, and is circulated all the time (like every minute or two), is so minuscule it’s almost negligible”
And yet there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft. But if folks are vaccinated it becomes of lesser importance.
US has not achieved great vaccination rates, nor polices arriving US citizens or residents to be vaccinated. Ouch.
Gennady,
Whether it’s your fan-boy belief in your Lord Trump or your disbelief in what I said, the fact is that I’ve indeed taken over 200 international trips between March 2020 and June 2022. Last month alone I took at least 20 international trips, none of which touched the surface anywhere in the Americas except in the US. So chalk off Canada and Mexico.
“The odds of dying by plane crash are roughly the same as dying from an adverse reaction from a COVID vaccine.”
Which is also close to the odds of dying from Covid, oops, I mean the flu. Sorry, but you’re the victim of a psyop and you’re simply too ignorant to know it. The problem with all your attacks on me is that I’ve been right about everything from the beginning. The face diapers didn’t reduce the spread, lockdowns did nothing but wreck the economy and destroy lives and the best of all… the jabs are an abject failure and there’s significant evidence to prove it all. Unfortunately, it requires you to investigate something beyond the MSM and listening to tales of woe from your wife’s brother.
if we dont debate covid now we may never have a chance again!!
BTW biden and trump both suck
biden is senile and has no clue how much damage he is doing
trump just did whatever could give him some screen time
@ James N
The mortality rates for COVID are AFTER control measures were put in place. Do you understand that? I mean just what level of abject stupidity applies in your brain?
Your whole post is absolute drivel.
@GUWonder – I’m sorry you’re so obsessed with Trump that you can’t avoid bringing him in into conversation. It’s called TDS. I’m sorry for you.
Notice, however, that until my previous statements, I never mentioned him, or current WH occupant, or politics in general. Apparently, in the absence of facts or arguments, you feel like you need to bring it in. How pathetic! Again, sorry.
“…at least 20 international trips, none of which touched the surface anywhere in the Americas…” So, clearly these are NOT the international trips being discussed here, which would require one to get tested (within 24 hrs of departure), produce negative results, then board the plane and fly to the US.
Apparently, TDS has blinded you to the topic under discussion…Sorry again.
@platy – “there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft”
Example, please?
WSJ has reported 2 yrs ago that chances of getting infected on the airplane were about 0.03%. I can’t find THAT article, but here’s one from Boeing:
“Boeing’s analysis determined the risk of contracting COVID-19 during air travel is extremely low.
There’s a 1 in 1.7 million chance of passengers contracting COVID-19 on a flight. That’s according to new Boeing research, which analyzed the transmission risk for people throughout the air travel journey.”
“US has not achieved great vaccination rates”…
“At least 257,846,006 people or 78% of the population have received at least one dose”
(from usafacts.org)
Is 78% too low and “not great”? I distinctly remember Dr. Fauci telling us that “herd immunity” will be achieved at 50%…no wait, it’s 60%…no, it’s 70 to 80%….we’re here, aren’t we? What happened to herd immunity?
@Sam – “Took me 30 minutes and $20 last November. You should read up to be better informed.”
Gee, Sammy, it took us 2.5 hrs, and $90/pp, last September. You don’t travel much, do you, bozo? Need to widen your horizons, and realize you’re not the only one, you know — there ARE different countries, facilities, and prices…
“… the actuary who told me that monkeys at typewriters will someday reproduce Shakespeare”
Your post shows that actuary forgot to teach you to respect and use people’s names when addressing them… since you were too busy trying to reproduce Shakespeare at the time 🙂
Keep trying! One day, you may turn into a human.
Gennady-
Not much of an answer, but I imagine your mother would say “just do your best”.
Poor poor widdle @platy… no matter how much he kicked and screamed, no matter how much he stomped his feet, no matter how much of a temper tantwum he threw, masks and testing never came back.
Now don’t worry little one, I’ll let you have the last word.
I know how important that is to children…
I’ve been in the UK for the last two weeks and you know what no one talks about incessantly – COvID! The only people I’ve seen masks are the usual Asian crowd and the occasional Americans. Even saw an American dad maskless, but he had his six-year old masked. The only time the topic comes up is how people are glad it’s over.
This obsession with COvID is now definitely an American thing, outside of a few Asian countries. If you’re still whinging on about it, from any direction other than origin theories, the problem might be you.
@C_M… our corrupt establishment press (television networks and major newspapers) still push the COVID fear hysteria on nearly a daily basis in America. While only the gullible still believe them, as we see from some of these clown comments, the gullible still have plenty of access to keyboards…
@Sam – not much of a question. What kind of reply you expect?
You claim to have spent $20 for the COVID test. And that proves what? That’s it’s useful? Necessary? How’s that adding to the discussion?
When there’s zero content or argument in your statement, and no logic or content in you post, don’t expect a reply.
@ Gennady
““there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft” Example, please?”
Here you go:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299_article
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article
Sure, these are rare events. But control of a virus is all about controlling rare events (each individual transmission event is in itself a rare event) – do you remember your basic risk analysis – rare event high impact? The main instrument of control is vaccination. Arguably, the case for the use of masks and pre-testing is stronger the fewer proportion vaccinated. Australia requires all international inbound air travellers to be vaccinated (the USA does not).
“Is 78% too low and “not great”?”
Estimates for fully vaccinated are USA 67.3% and Australia 85%.
The detailed Australian data can be found at:
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022/06/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-12-june-2022.pdf
Then detailed US data can be found at:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker
Note the shortfall to the 80% target.
Note vaccination rates are excellent just for some cohorts of older folk.
A table of rankings by country can be found at:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/international
You need to scroll down to the world data look at the left-hand graphic since this has been adjusted for percentage of population, and see that the USA is WAY down the list!
Note also for the US data (at the top of the page) the huge difference in vaccination rates by state, ranging from excellent (DC, Puerto Rico, Maine, Massachusetts, etc) to pathetic (Wyoming, Alabama, Mississippi, etc).
“I distinctly remember Dr. Fauci telling us that “herd immunity” will be achieved at 50%…no wait, it’s 60%…no, it’s 70 to 80%….we’re here, aren’t we? What happened to herd immunity?”
That may be the case. It has been suggested that Fauci made statements being well aware of the high vaccine resistance at the time. Personally, I wouldn’t support such, but given the politicisation of COVID in the USA and the histrionic resistance to proven control measures in some of its population (as evidenced in posts on this very thread), it comes as no surprise:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445
At the end of the day, the virus is not listening to changing declarations about the virus. Every day the dataset increases allowing more refined understanding.
The vaccine targets for the USA have been the same as for other countries such as Australia – 80%. The power of vaccines to achieve control of the virus are modelled against differing levels of achieved vaccinations and in concert with other control measures. In Australia you can refer to these (The Doherty Report available online).
https://www.doherty.edu.au/our-work/institute-themes/viral-infectious-diseases/covid-19/covid-19-modelling/modelling
I encourage you to take a quick look at this page. It is an illustration that government choices are informed by scientific models using available data to run a series of “what if” scenarios.
Note that the huge variation in vaccination rates from US state to state then comes into play. You need to get that vaccination rate up in the states with the lower rates, not just rely on the high rates of vaccination in the affluent Democrat leaning states of the northeast to bolster up the overall national average score.
Original talk of herd immunity was entirely speculative and based on presumptions comparing the COVID virus with epidemiology of other known viruses.
Now we have real world data on COVID. The virus has also evolved (oops – don’t tell the creationists) to a more transmissible dominant variant (Omicron) that appears to cause less hospitalisation and mortality (than Alpha and Delta).
BUT now we need boosters to maintain control over Omicron. The focus is on avoiding severe disease, hospitalisation, ICU admissions and mortality, since transmission isn less controllable (unless of course you go back tooth basics of masks and testing…;)).
Trump Comrade Gennady,
You miss the point of my mentioning my heavy international travel during the pandemic. It was a response to the clowns who foolishly believed I have some fear of getting Covid and thus should avoid traveling if concerned about infections. I avoided Covid during my more than 200 international trips in the pandemic due to the combination of public health measures in play and my factoring in testing, masking, social distancing, ventilation considerations in my travel activity decisions. My international travel never dropped during the pandemic; it increased tremendously. So the idea of supporters of public health measures being personally scared of Covid just flies flat on its face when it comes to me. Beating up on exaggerated straw-men is a Trump speciality, and as is done by their Lord Trump, so is done by the worshippers of your Lord Trump. This thread is yet another example of that.
I know a lot of the critics of the public health measures applicable to travel are not huge Trump fans, but when it came to public health measures they marched to the same master drummer: Trump & Co.
Ha… sure @GUWonder. And after the last of your “over 200 international flights,” everyone clapped and you got a pony.
Tell it to your diary.
@ Magnifico
Your name derives from Red Dead, yeah? Apparently, therein, Magnifico (the dwarf magician) finally sees the error of his ways. Not sure there’s redemptive hope for you, but.
Small stature probably explains your reference to a pony. So cool.
@ GUWonder
Yeah – they’ll all eventually wilt and slink away under the unrelenting power of logic and evidence when their stupidity is exposed. Be well, be wonderful.