In a huge blow to the testing industry, a negative Covid-19 test will no longer be required to fly to the U.S. for departures starting Sunday at midnight. The rule made little sense, and contributed little, but created hassle and uncertainty for travelers.
- Flying to the U.S. today or Saturday? You still have to have a negative test. This makes no sense.
- There are virtually zero Covid-19 mitigation measures in the U.S. except this one This made no sense.
- The testing requirement didn’t serve to keep variants out of the U.S. They didn’t keep people with Covid-19 out of the country (an antigen test the day before travel was enough) and variants co-evolve in the U.S> as well.
- It wasn’t ever required for land crossings, so people could fly to Mexico or Canada and then drive across the border without a test.
- We now have vaccines and treatments and hospital capacity isn’t stretched as it has been at some points during the pandemic.
Even Australia lifted its testing requirement, but the U.S. held onto it and little else. But somehow the CDC “determined that the science and data mean the tests are no longer necessary” which implies that until now they believed “the science and data” meant the measure was necessary but never explained why or how. Or why and how no testing requirement was supported by the science for land crossings.
Thank you to everyone who contacted the White House to lobby them to stop this policy that was no longer supported by science. YAY!
Another pillar of the long-running scam finally ends. A failed policy to join the likes of the face diapers, anti-social distancing, lockdowns, and the experimental gene therapies.
How about a Federal government reimbursement to those travelers who had to shell out $25 – $100 per test multiple times, as they made a number of trips back to the US in the past two years. I had to spend time and $$ at least 10 times to satisfy this non-science requirement.
The Feds have given $$$ away for lots of other Covid related issues, why not this one too?
Oh….did the airline crews have to get tested every time they flew back to the US? I have never been able to get an answer to this.
Have a flight from BOG to DFW/YYZ on Monday night so relieved not to have to track down and pay for another test even though I’m fully vaccinated with 4 shots or two different types of vaccine. Will make several other trips to/through the US over the summer so @$40/test will save quite a bit.
Get your travel in now before Pretender Brandon’s caretakers reinstate mandates to try to boost his polling numbers!
@ James N – if you succumbed to COVID and passed (like millions of others) there would not be you to spew this nonsense. Here you go.
Why do ( the press ) always spin a negative on good news ??? This is the problem with the media and the press, thus is a huge blow to the testing industry! ? Why spin it that way ? Jesus just stare and report the facts !! That’s it !!!
The science and the data, good grief.
Flying on Sunday, delta rep still ask to test just in case. It doesn’t make sense.
I wonder how many video proctoring places go dark this weekend?
Also without the demand of US bound travelers how long can other countries pre-departure testing requirements survive?
Such nonsense. How would reinstating the hated testing boost the president’s poll numbers???!!! See how ridiculous you sound. In fact, with that non sequitur you inadvertently enunciated the true reason for why the administration has decided to stop the testing at this time: the decision is based on science and not politics. The CDC will reevaluate the situation in 90 days, and if there are worrisome signs, the ‘insanity’ — that is how unpopular it is — may be reinstated based on what scientific data suggest, and not to boost the prez’s poll numbers because the opposite is, in fact, likely to happen if testing returns…
Well, well. Well…another reason you can’t and shouldn’t believe what the CDC says or does!!!
Another example of the “dumbing ” down of America!!!
The testing requirement helped make it possible for people to try to reduce the risk of Covid-19 infection during the course of a trip with long-haul international travel even into this month. And to/from the long-haul international gateway airport, the concerned could drive to avoid masses of untested crowds in a way that wouldn’t be possible on long-haul international flights if not for the sensible testing requirement.
“Breathe Free” should check the blood oxygen levels because that “brain” isn’t thinking straight and seems to be indicating more and more behavioral signs of hypoxic brain damage since the start of his/her/its Lord Trump-worshiping.
I am curious as to how this affects the trip delay portion of some travel insurance. If you contract COVID but are not seriously ill, will they still cover the expense of additional food and lodging until you are negative of the CDC’s recommended 10 day waiting period has passed? I recognize that passengers in this position will be able to return home as scheduled, but if they don’t want to infect others, will travel insurance cover the delay?
Oops, “of” should read “or.”
“The rule made little sense, and contributed little, but created hassle and uncertainty …”. The epitome of inept government activities. The feds are GOOD at this stuff.
Abundant home testing was available in other countries long before the US required a test to enter the US, let alone before abundant home tests became available in the US.
The only people that were testing in many countries were Americans returning home.
and given that the CDC recommended masks for monkeypox only to have to retract that item, the CDC is so far shot that we can all hope that nothing serious happens in 2 generations because no one will believe them again. Might as well dissolve the agency and start over.
oh, and as soon as the Dems are swept out of office, the crimes of Fauci needs to be featured in one of the first prime time public hearings.
@GUWonder the broad based public health benefits were nil. Testing isn’t required for spending an evening in a poorly ventilated bar. It was required for Caribbean – Miami flights but not Dallas-Anchorage. And the greateat exposure was in the airport rather than on board regardless of stage length. In amy case we have – and have had – preventive measures and treatments. This requirement did nothing to prevent variants, protect hospital capacity or change the course of the pandemic in any way.
Tried to paste the score from the Hallelujah Chorus here but that didn’t work. Since we’ve reached the point where entire Canadian sports teams are taking buses across the border to avoid dealing with this requirement, it is evident that we’ve reached the point of absurdity. There was never any data published which showed its effect on transmissions. On my last flight from the Caribbean I had to mention to the ticket agent that I even had a test result before he looked; perhaps he was used to the phony ones allegedly being printed at resorts. Good bye and good riddance.
So relieved. Going to Portugal in July and relieved my ability to work won’t be compromised by getting stuck abroad. And my company can FINALLY send people out of country again to work with overseas teams without having to create contingency plans for what happens if people get “stuck.” I wish Portugal would drop its testing requirement for U.S. travelers, but at least we can quarantine here at home before our trip to get that negative test.
Pre-flight testing is a silly requirement, given that it does next to nothing to prevent variants from getting into the U.S. It was a false sense of security at best. I tested negative for COVID for 3 days when I had symptoms, and I could have gotten on a plane.
I support countries requiring proof of vaccination from non-residents (to avoid having to hospitalize people who don’t pay taxes there). But pre-travel testing did nothing to stop COVID/new variants from crossing oceans. And, if anything, caused more spread because it’s not like testing positive at the airport got you whisked away to quarantine — you had to arrange for a new hotel, take the train to said hotel, spreading your COVID all the while.
Thank you Lord’s Brandon and Fauci, from whom all our blessings flow. Thank you for allowing us to have our freedoms back.
@GUWonder said “…drive to avoid masses of untested crowds in a way that wouldn’t be possible on long-haul international flights if not for the sensible testing requirement.”
And then get onto a domestic leg, and get exposed to hundreds of – OMG! – untested crowds who don’t give a rat’s a$$ about “sensible testing requirements”.
Better check the blood oxygen levels because that “brain” of yours isn’t thinking straight either.
And @GUWonder the notion that this somehow created safe air travel when testing was required in only one direction…
@Jose, he is being sarcastic. If you follow Gary at all, you know his opinions on this topic. This is really good news for travelers and for common sense.
Returning on Tuesday. The testing fees might buy a nice bottle in duty free.
I purchased few extra tests. Emed would not accept return 🙁 They’re now useless. I know I shouldn’t buy many in advance 🙂 Happy Travelling!
Fixed.
So says our resident M.D., who just writes a travel for kicks, but is the world’s foremost expert in infectious diseases.
A mind is truly a terrible thing to waste…
Public health benefits are public health benefits, whether “broad based” or not.
A round trip with one leg requiring testing and the other not requiring testing still meant less chance for exposure to the virus from fellow passengers than if neither flight leg required testing.
Personally, I was expecting this test requirement to be phased out before my late April and May flights this spring. That it sticks around until almost mid-June isn’t a problem for me. That it goes away isn’t a problem for me either.
I still take more issue with no longer being able to fly from the US to Canada and Mexico with just my US state driving license and US state birth certificate than I ever took with this Covid-19 test requirement.
Gennady,
Driving is a substitute to taking domestic flight legs in a way that driving can’t be to get across the oceans. But if you can see Russian from Sarah Palin’s backyard and find a land bridge across the Pacific and across the Atlantic, do let us know.
Russia*
GU
if you wish to mask and test, go for it.
Most of the rest of the world is not so figure out how you deal w/ that reality.
You are free to “go illegal” to cross US borders and then you don’t even have to use your DL.
Tim Dunn,
Unlike you here, I don’t support violating laws and other legal norms.
My comments about the testing requirement here have nothing to do with whether or not I personally wish to “mask and test” myself.
Has this become the “GUWonder” website? What a total waste of my time reading through all this rubbish!
@ James N
“Another pillar of the long-running scam finally ends. A failed policy to join the likes of the face diapers, anti-social distancing, lockdowns, and the experimental gene therapies.’
It’s no wonder that the USA lost over one million people, if that sort of ignorance and selfish attitude is in anyway representative of the community!
Do you go to the doctor when you’re sick – get antibiotics if you have a bad infection like pneumonia? If the answer is yes, you are an utter hypocrite.
Other countries were more civilised and their strategies now proven. Yet some continue to live in denial.
@ Breathe Free
“Get your travel in now before Pretender Brandon’s caretakers reinstate mandates to try to boost his polling numbers!”
Your statement makes no logical sense. Just how would reinstating testing for international arrivals positively affect polling numbers? Followers of the t*RUMP, were and always will be bereft of intelligence and so easily manipulated into dumb positions.
@ Mary Beth Williams
“Well, well. Well…another reason you can’t and shouldn’t believe what the CDC says or does!!!
Another example of the “dumbing” down of America!!!”
Yeah – there are undoubtedly some dumb folk in the USA and some of them exhibit their stupidity on this very blog.
Other countries have already removed testing for international arrivals (Australia some months ago), but consider that vaccination is also in play.
If you want to remove testing then you would ideally need ALL arrivals to be vaccinated, not just non-citizens and non-residents, savvy?
Also consider the poor vaccination rates within country (67% in US compared with 84% in Australia).
If you prefer to derive your medical knowledge from an unqualified travel blogger (in this case the hopelessly scientifically and medically misinformed @ Gary Leff) then go for it – you’ve just proven your own point about the “dumbing down of America”.
@ huey judy
““The rule made little sense, and contributed little, but created hassle and uncertainty …”. The epitome of inept government activities. The feds are GOOD at this stuff.”
You are making your judgment on what – an article about COVID from @ Gary who has repeatedly shown his ignorance on matters COVID over many articles?
Stuff that does not make sense to @ Gary can be eminently sensible to someone who is (1) highly trained (2) highly experienced (3) has the data at their fingertips (4) has the mathematical models on their computer which can be used to predict various outcomes of balancing various disease control measures.
Unless you have all four of the above attributes, your position is likely misinformed and lead you to the insane presumption that the folk who are trying to keep you and your community safe are up to some underhand nasty stuff – you just become another sad conspiracy theorist.
Undermining the work of the medical and science communities is a reckless pursuit.
@ Tim Dunn
“The only people that were testing in many countries were Americans returning home.”
Strangely, most likely not the case. Unless, of course you have some penetrating data to support your position?
“and given that the CDC recommended masks for monkeypox only to have to retract that item, the CDC is so far shot that we can all hope that nothing serious happens in 2 generations because no one will believe them again”
So, a change in recommended practice is sufficient to damn a whole organisation and all of its people? That is a wild logical leap, Tim. Would you stop flying an airline altogether, if it were revealed to you that there had been a change in a basic safety process made because of a need to clarify that process or update it due to incoming data or output from a mathematical model?
“oh, and as soon as the Dems are swept out of office, the crimes of Fauci needs to be featured in one of the first prime time public hearings.”
Perhaps you should consider the damage done by the ditched president who spent so much effort undermining the medics and scientists who were trying to manage a pandemic, despite being shamefully publicly trashed by politicians with zero medical or scientific knowledge and for their own personal political gain. Nasty stuff, with ugly consequences when otherwise intelligent people become entranced by their facile narrative and try to blame the utter failing of the US to handle the health crisis caused by their void of political leadership.
@ Gary Leff
Or should I call you, Doctor, based upon your presumptive hubris?
“the broad based public health benefits were nil.”
If you want to pretend to be at the level of the scientifically smart and medically competent, you might like to begin by using exact language and refer to supporting datasets.
– “broad based” means what in your brain? An analysis focusing on a population level rather than an individual level? Or are you implying downstream benefits? Or are you thinking of co-operative effects between control measures?
– “benefits were “nil”” – in your opinion? Or do you have any data to back up that statement? What benefits have you been able to discount?
“Testing isn’t required for spending an evening in a poorly ventilated bar. It was required for Caribbean – Miami flights but not Dallas-Anchorage. And the greateat exposure was in the airport rather than on board regardless of stage length.”
Well, doctor, we know what has worked in controlling the pandemic, because some countries did just that, despite the howls of ridicule from some dumb Americans on travel bogs, who were more obsessed with their personal freedoms than concerned about the wellbeing of their one million dead compatriots.
You ended up with a compromised control program and now you want to pick holes in the outcome and find somebody to blame?
Of course, your program is inconsistent. But let’s add some context, shall we?
Per above, think about the role of vaccinations. Australia opened its borders and dropped testing thanks to very high vaccination rates. It still requires ALL arrivals to be vaccinated.
But too many freedom-obsessed Americans don’t get vaccinated and insist on their freedoms thereof, so it’d be a testy business to deny them entry to their own country. So, less heavy lifting from vaccination and more fall back on whatever measures are left that can be instituted without the population of cry-babies having a tantrum because of masks, social distancing, lock downs or whatever.
Basically, you can impose certain, measures on non-citizens / non-residents that, apparently, would cause seismic social ripples, if you attempt to apply such to the American softies that can’t hack a needle.
Also, governments have recruited airlines to police international arrivals requirements. That can pass muster on a SYD-LAX, but not a DFW-ANC flight, no?
“In any case we have – and have had – preventive measures and treatments. This requirement did nothing to prevent variants, protect hospital capacity or change the course of the pandemic in any way.”.
You could be right. Or you could be wrong. Just declaring such a statement doesn’t make it true. Where’s your data? If you want to be Gary Leff M.D., you might start thinking about what data you’d like to back your medical opinion. For starters, how many folk have tested positive within 24 hours of their flight? How many of them were vaccinated? What do the mathematical models of control measures used in an integrated strategy predict about the role of testing in the mix of control measures? Do real life data uphold the modelled outcomes? Is the CDC failing to adopt some sort of process, modelling, integrated control strategy? Etc, etc…
“And @GUWonder the notion that this somehow created safe air travel when testing was required in only one direction…”
One fundamental failure in logic is to look at testing requirements in isolation. Clue – reductionist presumptions don’t always apply when you are dealing with a system.
@ drrichard:
“There was never any data published which showed its effect on transmissions”
It may well be the time to drop the testing requirement.
That said, there is most certainly a body of published work on managing transmission of COVID with respect to travel, which includes testing in the mix, readily accessible online with a few seconds worth of search effort by anybody who can be bothered to do such before making grandiose and unsubstantiated statements. You could mount arguments about its applicability and the net value of such, but it would be unfortunate to deny the existence of the research itself.
And does the CDC have unpublished data on which to make a call?
@ sofar
“Pre-flight testing is a silly requirement, given that it does next to nothing to prevent variants from getting into the U.S. It was a false sense of security at best.”
So, kinda like so many of those safety rules we follow when we fly or fly on an aircraft?
“But pre-travel testing did nothing to stop COVID/new variants from crossing oceans. And, if anything, caused more spread because it’s not like testing positive at the airport got you whisked away to quarantine — you had to arrange for a new hotel, take the train to said hotel, spreading your COVID all the while.”
Better let the science and medical boffins know that you have got it all worked out better than they ever did.
@ Gennady
“Better check the blood oxygen levels because that “brain” of yours isn’t thinking straight either.”
Actually, that would be a symptom of COVID, which is why it’s best controlled rather than let run rampant…;)
Thankfully, you started your post with a response to my comment. Once you invoked the laughable million dead figure, you revealed your ignorance and made it easy to ignore the rest of your nonsense.
@platy THANK YOU for calling out every single one of the bloviators, conspiracy theorists, and the widely misinformed. You did a mitzvah!
I was, quite literally, online looking up my cheapest home kit proctoring option for a trip in two weeks–as a solo traveler it is more maddening because those options are more costly or less reliable–when I clicked away and saw the news. I am now going on a month-long trip where there are zero government mandates in any of the countries I am visiting or for me to return. While that can change at anytime, of course, and I am going prepared, I am not sure I thought I would see this day. When I booked my trip, the countries had restrictions, masks, testing, et. al.
As to the other points: One reason it was a scam is that there were known places–from Mexico to Ireland–where you were either guaranteed a negative test or directed to a doctor where you could buy a fit to fly certificate. I know this from the many news reports, not personal experience. My personal experience is adding money to my own budget, despite being vaxxed, boosted, AND having Covid. It really gets old. Viruses do happen. Those of us with common sense will use our many free Covid tests and self test. I cannot fathom flying while being sick anyway. But people are flying with Covid all over the U.S. This is not rocket science. A border doesn’t change anything but a testing company’s net profits.
While we’re at it, let’s stop with removing shoes and banning water. Nobody has the nerve to stop those insanities.
@ James N
“…face diapers, anti-social distancing, lockdowns, and the experimental gene therapies…”
No, mate, you weren’t supposed to put the diaper on your face but on your behind, you weren’t supposed use the bleach as a mouthwash but to disinfect the toilet bowl, and you don’t keep taking the little blue pills, if you want to wake up into the real world…no wonder America had problems controlling COVID…it was the diaper shortage that let the virus spread.
Brandon, you’re a fine girl, what a good wife you would be.
Very happy that the testing requirement is going away, but I do wish theater there was still a mask requirement on both domestic and international flights. Pre-flight testing was. It effective, but masking works. I am a PhD who researches RNA viruses, btw.
@platy, your post is long, but spot on. Brilliant. As for the travel blogger pretending to understand science, what a joke. I’ll read the suggestions for point bonuses and credit cards, but spare us the faux medical insight. Actually, on second thought, there are plenty of sites for points and credit cards. No need to wade through this idiotic blog any longer.
GUWonder – I have no idea why you’d bring Palin or bridge to Russia into this conversation, must be some kind of your own personal obsession.
My point, however, – which you never addressed – is total lack of logic in requiring the test while going across the water, but not over the land. So, correct me if I’m wrong – when and if you will travel from Europe to, say, California – I presume you’d be flying to NYC, for example, then drive to LAX or SFO? Is that your solution?
@platy – wow! Your post…talk about conversation-killer.
Next time, just publish a book 🙂
@Tom “I do wish theater there was still a mask requirement on both domestic and international flights”
Freudian slip? LOL
To all of those complaining-
In the bigger scheme of things, who cares? Sorry your feelings were hurt by Mask Mandates. At least your still alive.
@Rav – you don’t get out much, do you? Tell us how many trips abroad you took in the last 2 yrs. Then you can make your snide comments…
While I’m sure that the name calling and grand standing is fun for some, I wish that someone would address my question about how this change in policy will interact with trip insurance (especially travel delay coverage).
@James N
Jimmy, since this is over now we’re hoping we won’t hear from you again. As you’re a scientific genius you can find some other thing to be negative about. Even though you’re a discredited fool and don’t even fly I’m sure you will delight us about some other distorted facts. Bad luck with that.
Sleepy Joe changed the policy not due to pressure from the travel industry, but due to the midterms coming up. We are paying more than $5 gal for gas, higher food prices, higher rents, stock market is tanking, consumer confidence in the toilet. He had to do something, anything to get some positive news out there. He could give a rats ass about inconveniences, time, monies his policy was causing the average traveler, because after all none of these rules apply to Air Force 1.
GU wonder you never cease to amaze me. This time you were able to incorporate Sara Palin and Donald Trump into a blog post that has nothing to do with either. But then again that is you MO.
Also did you ever think about just how silly it is to get tested and mask up for an international flight but have to do neither when you transfer in the US to a domestic connection?
Oh, goody, another comment from the idiot, Rog. A true believer and too dumb to figure out he’s been the victim of a giant fraud. Unfortunately, there’s little chance he’ll ever admit his failure. Much like the rest of the compliant, servile masses.
Glad to save that 30 minutes and $20 now that tests are no longer required?
Of course, with 200 people of your 10 hour flight home, odds are pretty good you”ll have between 1-4 infected people on the plane with you. But not the woman next to you-she looks healthy.
@ Aaron M
Toda raba!
@ Will (Tokyo)
Thanks for the feedback!
FWIW IMHO @ Gary has a unique voice in the travel blog arena, which can be useful when he’s on topic, although he is oddly silent when challenged.
@ Gennady
“GUWonder – I have no idea why you’d bring Palin or bridge to Russia into this conversation, must be some kind of your own personal obsession.”
For balance, it seems a number of posters herein are festering t*TRUMPettes eager to “Brandonize” the debate, no? (check out @ CMorgan’s completely off topic posts for example).
Palin was the quintessential dumb Republican of recent times. She was so lame that she couldn’t string a sentence. Arguably, the destroyer of the last decent Republican (John McCain – who t*UMP went on to disrespect so badly that he lost Arizona in the last presidential election) and, it is claimed, the American politician who started the rot of shamelessly chanting mistruths for her own political end, a sort pre-t*RUMP!
In all, she seems quite an appropriate and quick reference as a counter to much of the right wing inspired mistruths and anti-science/medicine drivel on this thread.
“My point, however, – which you never addressed – is total lack of logic in requiring the test while going across the water, but not over the land.”
A good question – per my comment addressed to @ Gary above, the practical reality is that airlines servicing incoming international flights had been charged with policing test results (and vaccination records) before passengers could check into their flight, government had basically outsourced that function in the case of international air arrivals.
One suspects a call has been made that there wasn’t a practical alternative for land arrivals. What do you think?
“ Your post…talk about conversation-killer. Next time, just publish a book”
Oops, sorry mate, trying to inject some science-based rationale into the frame, so folk can agree or disagree through some sort of logical process! BTW book almost finished…;)
@ CMorgan
“Also did you ever think about just how silly it is to get tested and mask up for an international flight but have to do neither when you transfer in the US to a domestic connection?”
Did you ever think about…oops, sorry, I’ll start writing this sentence again without the presumption…it may be quite simple – the government could exercise more control over non-US citizen / resident international arrivals than that over US citizens and residents.
After all, we’re dealing with a population uniquely insistent upon their personal freedoms over the health and wellbeing of others, let alone a stridently vocal proportion of the community who is variously ignorant of matters scientific and medical, religiously disposed against rational science (creationism anyone?), and who has been stirred into irrational positions and denigration of science and medicine by opportunistic politicians.
In short, strategic disease control measures have been persistently compromised until sub optimal. The results of such are stark when you compare the data between countries – differential vaccination rates, mortality, etc.
The solution was and still is to encourage higher rates of vaccination, so that vaccination can do the heavy lifting in controlling the virus.
Ironically, those herein who resist vaccination are going to have a hard time travelling overseas when they discover they need to be vaccinated to get on the plane to travel to another country! They only get to stay in the USA – thank goodness for that!
@ James N
“he’s been the victim of a giant fraud. Unfortunately, there’s little chance he’ll ever admit his failure. Much like the rest of the compliant, servile masses.”
And that, my friends, is the sound of somebody spewing stupid comments with a diaper wrapped around their face, with a brain washed with bleach and claiming that mobile phones can magnetically stick to arm where the complaint servile masses had their vaccinations.
Thank goodness he’ll never be accepted as an arrival in another country (without his vaccination).
Platy still a lib left A$$ Breathe Free you get it …SO true JIT for the Primaries and Mid Terms
“Thank goodness he’ll never be accepted as an arrival in another country (without his vaccination).”
Wrong again, fool. There are dozens of countries that will accept those of us who didn’t succumb to the propaganda, and get injected with an untested, clearly ineffective, “vaccine “. With everything we now know, it’s embarrassing to see the number of people who still support the lies. Maybe someday you’ll finally wake up.
Gennady,
I’ve taken over 200 international trips between March 2020 to June 2022. Masks and testing didn’t bother me as much as the kind of nonsense that I have been observing while crossing borders since mid-September 2001 and that continues even now. My nostrils didn’t enjoy the swabbing, but such is life that it includes things that are to be tolerated anyway.
@ James N
Lucky you! You can visit about 10% of the world’s nations (but, shame, not the other 90%). Break out the bunting. Pop those champagne corks.
Now, if you run into any scientists on your travels be sure to use basic terms like “tested” and “effective” with their defined meaning in the context of vaccines, we wouldn’t want you to embarrass yourself in real life outside of the confines of a travel blog commentariat, now would we? Some folk you meet might accidentally mistake your ignorance for insanity.
Now be sure to check the airline’s vaccination policy (as well as any country you’re hoping to visit) and mask policy (or in your case, bring your own diapers) and double check that your travel insurance doesn’t have any special terms for the unvaccinated.
Please report back – we’d love to hear all about your travel adventures. But are you really sure it’s safe to fly? The odds of dying by plane crash are roughly the same as dying from an adverse reaction from a COVID vaccine.
As always, hearing the mask and testing clowns like @GUWonder squeal and shriek over the loss of their lord and savior COVID brings me joy. What’s particularly amusing is that typically these same people would be screeching over the evils and greed of “Big Pharma,” but all is good if the cause is “just” (meaning the argee with it of course).
Oh well, if it weren’t for double standards, these laughable fools would have no standards at all…
@ Magnifico
That’s so cultishly cute.
I mean your diatribe has all the potential for a cult to inspire your braindead brethren of dumb denialists crying freedom from the shackles of reason and logic.
Savour those references to lords and saviours, evils, greed, “just” causes, bringers of joy. Just tell the faithful flock what to think and they’ll latch onto it with the urgent penitence of hirudineans suckered onto the skin of a hemophiliac. Only, in your version of heaven, the standards are flying at half mast, they’re tripping over the bodies of the COVID dead and there’s still a queue at the gates. Something about the religious zealots and political opportunists stirring up the unthinking masses into denial. Didn’t get the message that the virus is real, it kills, that it can be stopped through some very simple steps.
@GUWonder said “200 international trips between March 2020 to June 2022”
Sorry, mate, I don’t believe you. That’s 7 trips per month for 27 mos? No way (unless you go to Canada or Mexico for a day).
And the point is not how many trips you took…It’s how many times have you tested positive, have been quarantined, and therefore had your travel plans, and life plans, ruined…needlessly, imho.
@platy – I know full well who Palin is. I didn’t see any need to bring her into the conversation, as it added nothing.
Palin certainly is not the first dumb politician to make a fool of herself. Need I remind you of congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Houston), who famously asked for pictures of the American flag planted on Mars by Neil Armstrong. Or Hand Johnson (D-Atlanta) who was concerned that Guam was in danger of tipping over and capsizing.
Regardless, I injected zero politics into my opposition to the requirements for tests (finally eliminate). Mine, just like Gary’s, were based purely on logic and experience. And one doesn’t need to be a doctor, epidemiologist, etc. to use logic.
One comment on style, or form – as you’re “trying to inject some science-based rationale”, you’ll probably do better by replying to each person individually, in a separate post. Makes it easier to read, follow and reply.
Just my $0.02
@Sam “Glad to save that 30 minutes and $20 now that tests are no longer required”
Clearly, you have no clue. It can take hours out of your last day abroad, and cost a small fortune (esp. if traveling with family). We paid $90/pp at time. Not even talking about disruptions and problems if the test comes back positive (something which happens a lot, esp. with Ellume proctored home tests). Yes, it did happen to us.
“Of course, with 200 people of your 10 hour flight home, odds are pretty good you”ll have between 1-4 infected people on the plane with you. But not the woman next to you-she looks healthy.”
Another idiotic comment. Thousands of people get infected daily, and only a small portion of them have traveled by plane. It has been show many times since the pandemic started that your chances of getting infected on the airplane, where air is cleaned by HEPA filters, and is circulated all the time (like every minute or two), is so minuscule it’s almost negligible…but some continue to be concerned about “1-4 infected people on the plane”. Just plane stupid, if you ask me…
@ Gennady
“I know full well who Palin is. I didn’t see any need to bring her into the conversation, as it added nothing.”
Sure. I know you know. I agree would be preferable for all of us to be on topic. Just having fun with the counterpoint…;)
“And one doesn’t need to be a doctor, epidemiologist, etc. to use logic.”
No you don’t have to be – and FWIW I’ve met medical doctors with very linear thinking. But some herein don’t back the logical process with the researched data. My suspicion is that most of us would agree with each other most of the time, but somehow difference becomes the focus.
” replying to each person individually, in a separate post. Makes it easier to read, follow and reply”
Thanks, mate. Be well.
Squeal harder @play. I like it…
Dr. Gen day-
Thanks for you astute observations. Oh wait-I spelled that wrong.
Took me 30 minutes and $20 last November. You should read up to be better informed.
Yes, few have been infected on planes. As far as we know. Now let’s see-oh- there were COVID tests before those international flights weren’t there? Gee, Wally, that’s different.
Reading comments like these remind me of the actuary who told me that monkeys at typewriters will someday reproduce Shakespeare.
@ Magnifico
Fecit potentiam in brachio suo, dispersit superbos mente cordis sui…
@ Gennady
All depends upon your vaccination rate.
“Thousands of people get infected daily, and only a small portion of them have traveled by plane.”
If folk are vaccinated on the aircraft and the population has a high vaccination rate, then testing is moot. That’s the point. The relativity of where people contract the virus is simply not an issue because control measures (primarily vaccination) are in place.
But each infected has the potential to spread the virus exponentially WITHOUT controls in place. Each infected person is effectively a patient zero for their own virus – every infection counts when you map the downstream impact.
“your chances of getting infected on the airplane, where air is cleaned by HEPA filters, and is circulated all the time (like every minute or two), is so minuscule it’s almost negligible”
And yet there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft. But if folks are vaccinated it becomes of lesser importance.
US has not achieved great vaccination rates, nor polices arriving US citizens or residents to be vaccinated. Ouch.
Gennady,
Whether it’s your fan-boy belief in your Lord Trump or your disbelief in what I said, the fact is that I’ve indeed taken over 200 international trips between March 2020 and June 2022. Last month alone I took at least 20 international trips, none of which touched the surface anywhere in the Americas except in the US. So chalk off Canada and Mexico.
“The odds of dying by plane crash are roughly the same as dying from an adverse reaction from a COVID vaccine.”
Which is also close to the odds of dying from Covid, oops, I mean the flu. Sorry, but you’re the victim of a psyop and you’re simply too ignorant to know it. The problem with all your attacks on me is that I’ve been right about everything from the beginning. The face diapers didn’t reduce the spread, lockdowns did nothing but wreck the economy and destroy lives and the best of all… the jabs are an abject failure and there’s significant evidence to prove it all. Unfortunately, it requires you to investigate something beyond the MSM and listening to tales of woe from your wife’s brother.
if we dont debate covid now we may never have a chance again!!
BTW biden and trump both suck
biden is senile and has no clue how much damage he is doing
trump just did whatever could give him some screen time
@ James N
The mortality rates for COVID are AFTER control measures were put in place. Do you understand that? I mean just what level of abject stupidity applies in your brain?
Your whole post is absolute drivel.
@GUWonder – I’m sorry you’re so obsessed with Trump that you can’t avoid bringing him in into conversation. It’s called TDS. I’m sorry for you.
Notice, however, that until my previous statements, I never mentioned him, or current WH occupant, or politics in general. Apparently, in the absence of facts or arguments, you feel like you need to bring it in. How pathetic! Again, sorry.
“…at least 20 international trips, none of which touched the surface anywhere in the Americas…” So, clearly these are NOT the international trips being discussed here, which would require one to get tested (within 24 hrs of departure), produce negative results, then board the plane and fly to the US.
Apparently, TDS has blinded you to the topic under discussion…Sorry again.
@platy – “there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft”
Example, please?
WSJ has reported 2 yrs ago that chances of getting infected on the airplane were about 0.03%. I can’t find THAT article, but here’s one from Boeing:
“Boeing’s analysis determined the risk of contracting COVID-19 during air travel is extremely low.
There’s a 1 in 1.7 million chance of passengers contracting COVID-19 on a flight. That’s according to new Boeing research, which analyzed the transmission risk for people throughout the air travel journey.”
“US has not achieved great vaccination rates”…
“At least 257,846,006 people or 78% of the population have received at least one dose”
(from usafacts.org)
Is 78% too low and “not great”? I distinctly remember Dr. Fauci telling us that “herd immunity” will be achieved at 50%…no wait, it’s 60%…no, it’s 70 to 80%….we’re here, aren’t we? What happened to herd immunity?
@Sam – “Took me 30 minutes and $20 last November. You should read up to be better informed.”
Gee, Sammy, it took us 2.5 hrs, and $90/pp, last September. You don’t travel much, do you, bozo? Need to widen your horizons, and realize you’re not the only one, you know — there ARE different countries, facilities, and prices…
“… the actuary who told me that monkeys at typewriters will someday reproduce Shakespeare”
Your post shows that actuary forgot to teach you to respect and use people’s names when addressing them… since you were too busy trying to reproduce Shakespeare at the time 🙂
Keep trying! One day, you may turn into a human.
Gennady-
Not much of an answer, but I imagine your mother would say “just do your best”.
Poor poor widdle @platy… no matter how much he kicked and screamed, no matter how much he stomped his feet, no matter how much of a temper tantwum he threw, masks and testing never came back.
Now don’t worry little one, I’ll let you have the last word.
I know how important that is to children…
I’ve been in the UK for the last two weeks and you know what no one talks about incessantly – COvID! The only people I’ve seen masks are the usual Asian crowd and the occasional Americans. Even saw an American dad maskless, but he had his six-year old masked. The only time the topic comes up is how people are glad it’s over.
This obsession with COvID is now definitely an American thing, outside of a few Asian countries. If you’re still whinging on about it, from any direction other than origin theories, the problem might be you.
@C_M… our corrupt establishment press (television networks and major newspapers) still push the COVID fear hysteria on nearly a daily basis in America. While only the gullible still believe them, as we see from some of these clown comments, the gullible still have plenty of access to keyboards…
@Sam – not much of a question. What kind of reply you expect?
You claim to have spent $20 for the COVID test. And that proves what? That’s it’s useful? Necessary? How’s that adding to the discussion?
When there’s zero content or argument in your statement, and no logic or content in you post, don’t expect a reply.
@ Gennady
““there have been a number of COVID spreader events on aircraft” Example, please?”
Here you go:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/11/20-3299_article
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/3/20-4714_article
Sure, these are rare events. But control of a virus is all about controlling rare events (each individual transmission event is in itself a rare event) – do you remember your basic risk analysis – rare event high impact? The main instrument of control is vaccination. Arguably, the case for the use of masks and pre-testing is stronger the fewer proportion vaccinated. Australia requires all international inbound air travellers to be vaccinated (the USA does not).
“Is 78% too low and “not great”?”
Estimates for fully vaccinated are USA 67.3% and Australia 85%.
The detailed Australian data can be found at:
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022/06/covid-19-vaccine-rollout-update-12-june-2022.pdf
Then detailed US data can be found at:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker
Note the shortfall to the 80% target.
Note vaccination rates are excellent just for some cohorts of older folk.
A table of rankings by country can be found at:
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/vaccines/international
You need to scroll down to the world data look at the left-hand graphic since this has been adjusted for percentage of population, and see that the USA is WAY down the list!
Note also for the US data (at the top of the page) the huge difference in vaccination rates by state, ranging from excellent (DC, Puerto Rico, Maine, Massachusetts, etc) to pathetic (Wyoming, Alabama, Mississippi, etc).
“I distinctly remember Dr. Fauci telling us that “herd immunity” will be achieved at 50%…no wait, it’s 60%…no, it’s 70 to 80%….we’re here, aren’t we? What happened to herd immunity?”
That may be the case. It has been suggested that Fauci made statements being well aware of the high vaccine resistance at the time. Personally, I wouldn’t support such, but given the politicisation of COVID in the USA and the histrionic resistance to proven control measures in some of its population (as evidenced in posts on this very thread), it comes as no surprise:
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445
At the end of the day, the virus is not listening to changing declarations about the virus. Every day the dataset increases allowing more refined understanding.
The vaccine targets for the USA have been the same as for other countries such as Australia – 80%. The power of vaccines to achieve control of the virus are modelled against differing levels of achieved vaccinations and in concert with other control measures. In Australia you can refer to these (The Doherty Report available online).
https://www.doherty.edu.au/our-work/institute-themes/viral-infectious-diseases/covid-19/covid-19-modelling/modelling
I encourage you to take a quick look at this page. It is an illustration that government choices are informed by scientific models using available data to run a series of “what if” scenarios.
Note that the huge variation in vaccination rates from US state to state then comes into play. You need to get that vaccination rate up in the states with the lower rates, not just rely on the high rates of vaccination in the affluent Democrat leaning states of the northeast to bolster up the overall national average score.
Original talk of herd immunity was entirely speculative and based on presumptions comparing the COVID virus with epidemiology of other known viruses.
Now we have real world data on COVID. The virus has also evolved (oops – don’t tell the creationists) to a more transmissible dominant variant (Omicron) that appears to cause less hospitalisation and mortality (than Alpha and Delta).
BUT now we need boosters to maintain control over Omicron. The focus is on avoiding severe disease, hospitalisation, ICU admissions and mortality, since transmission isn less controllable (unless of course you go back tooth basics of masks and testing…;)).
Trump Comrade Gennady,
You miss the point of my mentioning my heavy international travel during the pandemic. It was a response to the clowns who foolishly believed I have some fear of getting Covid and thus should avoid traveling if concerned about infections. I avoided Covid during my more than 200 international trips in the pandemic due to the combination of public health measures in play and my factoring in testing, masking, social distancing, ventilation considerations in my travel activity decisions. My international travel never dropped during the pandemic; it increased tremendously. So the idea of supporters of public health measures being personally scared of Covid just flies flat on its face when it comes to me. Beating up on exaggerated straw-men is a Trump speciality, and as is done by their Lord Trump, so is done by the worshippers of your Lord Trump. This thread is yet another example of that.
I know a lot of the critics of the public health measures applicable to travel are not huge Trump fans, but when it came to public health measures they marched to the same master drummer: Trump & Co.
Ha… sure @GUWonder. And after the last of your “over 200 international flights,” everyone clapped and you got a pony.
Tell it to your diary.
@ Magnifico
Your name derives from Red Dead, yeah? Apparently, therein, Magnifico (the dwarf magician) finally sees the error of his ways. Not sure there’s redemptive hope for you, but.
Small stature probably explains your reference to a pony. So cool.
@ GUWonder
Yeah – they’ll all eventually wilt and slink away under the unrelenting power of logic and evidence when their stupidity is exposed. Be well, be wonderful.