Yesterday I shared my one wish that would make Starwood points the clearly most valuable rewards currency: timeliness of transferring points.
Other programs figure out how to make transfers instantaneous, while Starwood can take literally weeks to move points around.
In the comments to that post, Jay hits on my biggest frustration with Starwood hotel night awards.
for me, i’d be that ridiculous rule on charging double points for hotels that don’t have standard rooms.
ALL hotels should have standard rooms. that really ires me to no end
I have hit on this before. For instance, three years ago I wrote Starwood’s outrageously-priced unattainable high-end hotel redemptions.
[I] am increasingly bothered by another feature of their redemption program — the exorbitantly high redemption rates for some of their high-end properties that are described as ‘all-sute’ hotels.
Some of their most expensive high-end properties..are all suites. That is part of why they’re as expensive as they are.
In order to get the same value out of a (regular, not all-suite) category 7 hotel award as a category 2 weekend hotel award, the rate for the property is going to need to be about $1000 or more per night. That’s at the standard 30,000 Starpoints for a category 7 hotel, ignoring the high season premium…
Starwood Charges Double for Its Best Category 6 and 7 Hotels
Starwood assigns hotel redemption categories — and thus the number of points required by a hotel — based on that hotel’s average room rates.
The most expensive hotels go into category 7, which are 30,000 points per night (35,000 for ‘high season’ dates).
But Starwood also has a rule that “all suite” hotels do not have standard rooms, and thus you have to spend twice the points for a free night. If a Starwood category 7 hotel is considered to be all suite, then a room would cost 60,000 points per night (70,000 in high season).
This rule applies only to category 6 and 7 properties, and it does not apply to all of them — the St. Regis Bali is a category 7 hotel where entry-level rooms are suites but Starwood Preferred Guest does not charge double to redeem there (which is good, because you rarely get even 2 cents per point in value redeeming for a room there as it is!). And of course it doesn’t apply at “Sheraton Suites” properties regardless of category.
But this does apply at places like the W Maldives, Sunset Key Cottages in Key West and St. Regis Bora Bora.
Charging Double Penalizes Members Twice
All-suite hotels achieve (or expect to achieve) the sort of room rates that justify their category 6 or 7 category precisely because of the type of accommodations they offer, or at least in large part because of that.
Offering all suite accommodations makes them more expensive, puts them into the top category.
But once they’re in that top category, Starwood charges double for them because they are all suite.
It’s circular reasoning that bends over back into the member’s point balance twice — the first time because of room rates, the second time because they charge double for the very thing that drove the room rate in the first place.
This Practice Makes SPG Points Pricing Absurd for their Best Hotels
One of the most attractive features of Starwood is the sheer number of aspirational properties in their portfolio. Marriott Rewards is a much bigger program but there are only a handful at most of ‘special’ properties in the chain. Starwood has a much greater focus on places that are more than just a room, but a destination in themselves. That’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but it’s a major feature they offer.
But it’s precisely those hotels that are taken out of reach by the ‘double points for all suite hotels’ practice, which undercuts the value proposition for hotel redemptions in the program (and is a big reason that I talk more about the mileage transfer value of Starpoints).
The SPG program used to have category 5 as its highest levels, and hotels participated and offered rooms at the category 5 price point. They added a category 6 and also implemented double points charges for all suite properties. Then they added category 7.
What’s most egregious is that it takes orders of magnitude more spending at a Starwood hotel to earn a top tier free night than with any other chain — several times more than Hilton, even, after that latter program’s March devaluation.
A base member would have to spend $35,000 at a Starwood hotel in order to earn enough points for a high season category 7 all suite hotel night — compared to that base member spending $6333 in in-hotel spend with Hilton for their most expensive redemption.
Starwood’s high-end all suite redemptions are so far out of whack that in many cases it’s much cheaper to pay the least expensive room rate and then redeem Starwood points as an Instant Award for a folio credit at the property. Though even this isn’t a good use of points, since you’re only getting a bit over a penny per point in value with Instant Awards. But category 7 double points redemptions can be even worse than this.
When a Starwood point can be worth 3+ cents per night redeeming for hotels, it seems crazy to fork over 70,000 – 100,000+ points per night for high-end properties retailing for less than $1000. And yet they may charge this for rooms barely more than half that.
This effects a relatively small number of hotels, but it is the very ‘best’ hotels that are made inaccessible to redemption in any meaningful way. So for my wish as to what Starwood would change about hotel redemptions? End the practice of charging double for all suite properties in the top redemption tiers.
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100% agree with you! This is the one major downfall of SPG and why I spread my nights to Hyatt along with SPG. It has rarely ever made sense for me to redeem my points for any Category 7 property as their lowest rates were often cheaper than using points (@2.5 cpp value).
It would have been nice to have expressed all these concerns about the Starwood program last month when everyone was fawning over the 30k Amex offer.
Couldn’t have said it better myself gary!
i was really bummed when SPG canceled at the last FTU, i was ITCHING to bring this up with them
@DBEST
REMINDER ONLY 3 MORE DAYS FOR THE SPG 30K BONUS
REMINDER ONLY 1 MORE DAY FOR THE SPG 30K BONUS
REMINDER ONLY 12 MORE HOURS FOR THE SPG 30K BONUS
@DBest I expressed the concerns about transfer time in my post on airline mileage transfers. I have expressing these concerns for years, consistently, these are not new thoughts. I even link in this post to a 2010 post on the same issue.
I still think the card is a very good one. I have it myself. It has a place in my wallet. It has had that place for a dozen years, and I recommended it in my very first blog post.
But there are of course things about the SPG program that I wish were different — as is true in every single program, even Hyatt’s as I’ve written and American’s as I’ve written and United’s as I’ve written as well.
This is why I switched over the the Hyatt program.
Simple reason would be places like W Maldives that have limited participation with SPG don’t want points spender come to their properties.
Ha maybe SPG need to send you on a trip to the US open to butter you up and soften your stance a little 😉
This is exactly why I gave up on SPG. Many years ago I called to get a points estimate for SR Bora Bora. I nearly lost my mind when I heard the 200k points I had saved up would get me 1.5 nights. For 200k points I could get 9 nights at a top Hyatt. This post is exactly how I feel – wish SPG would listen, great hotels, ridiculous point values.
@MilesAbound
I agree. How does one take a sponsorship from a company and then expect its readers to believe they are giving honest reviews?
Only a matter of time before SPG comes up with their own Category 10….
Starwood has so many nice category 4 and 5 places that I think are pretty good value for the points. Above cat 5, not so much.
I think it’s silly to value SPG points at more than 2C per point. Somewhere between 1.5 and 2C per points is right.
@MilesAbound – I have been writing about this issue for several years. Nonetheless, SPG invited me to the US Open last year (not through the Amex STARS program). I had other obligations.
Gary said,
“I have expressing these concerns for years, consistently, these are not new thoughts.”
“I have been writing about this issue for several years.”
Fair enough.
So in the three years since your last post on this issue how many times have you reminded folks about the SPG credit card?
For someone who seems to like to quote Latin a lot, you have repeatedly used “effects” incorrectly instead of “affects”.
Gary, I love what you do here, but I’d love it even more if in posts like this you try to get the subject/target/object to comment. Would be really interesting to see what SPG has to say for itself in this instance, as you make a very good case.
@Steve I don’t edit my posts in advance it’s one of my great faults. Sometimes I use latin if it seems to capture an idea especially well, but it’s not an attempt to be any sort of pedant.
@Ron Lieber – I’ve asked SPG folks about this in the past and they kind of smile and try to change the subject. Nonetheless that is a very fair point. I’ve been reaching out to travel providers in advance more and more about posts but need to endeavor to do that more still.
@Dax it has not been three years since I have written about this, by a long shot. I picked a detailed, on point, and old post to link to in order to offer that this has been a long-standing issue.
I can recall posts in the last couple months that hit on both the issue of problems with non-instantaneous points transfers and double-counting for all-suite hotels. But I suppose that wouldn’t fit the narrative of those that like to constantly show up in the comments and hurl accusations of being a corporate shill.
Overall I have done very well with Starwood. They seem to have great availability and generally speaking pretty decent values. Some weird issues in Europe where hotels per their price range are overvalued in some cases. There have been some devaluations in the past few years. 5th night free and nights and flights are great redemptions. I find standard rooms at most SPG properties. Hyatt is another story. Trying to use my “free” nights from the card bonus I found surprise not a single “standard” room in Paris for my dates. Now the difference in price from the so called standard room the the one level above room was very minimal. They could have asked for a few more points if they wanted to. They do not offer that. That is not the case for SPG. While everyone touts using the free nights at the Vendome they don’t state that it is a small hotel with very few “standard rooms”. Furthermore zero rooms were available. I got ahold of Hyatt via twitter and they told me it was the start of fashion week and rooms were busy. Natually there still are rooms at all of their properties and tons in paris. Nothing is fully booked for my September dates. Hilton has terrible values as they just killed that program. Mariott is another poor one. Although I stay at the more upscale properties (usually with SPG) they have many hotels in the 3000-7000 area that are great values. Many are worth far more than 2-3 cents per point. I wish they had a nights and flights option for cat 5 and 6 hotels. There are some inconsistent values, but you can find value with good worldwide coverage and several brands.
“…redeem Starwood points as an Instant Award for a folio credit at the property”
What are you talking about here? Transferring the points to the property to pay for incidentals/room service? Why would a person do such a thing?
One thing about my first year as SPG plat member ( I have been gold previously) I haven’t gotten much in the way of meaningful upgrades at the front desk. I am trying to use the suite awards for my upcoming vacation. If those bomb out I will be pretty unhappy with that “perk” I think Hyatt does a much better job with their top tier members who get the guaranteed Upgrade up front (if available) The SPG upgrades (suites) may just be a little higher room that standard. (from what I have seen online so far)Bottom line seems to be don’t worry about making plat unless you will have many room nights in the next yr to book with them.
Agreed. SPG for aspirational hotel stays is only for fools.
You can get a night in top tier Hyatt Cat 10 for ~$4,400 spend on an Ink Card. So why would anyone be stupid enough to spend $35K on a Cat 7? And some Hyatt’s are equivalent properties to St Regis at 70K (requiring $70K spend!).
SPG is a VASTLY overrated program. You can get much better reward for your spend using other cards.
D
@Glenn – it was an extreme illustration. You can generally redeem ppints when you are a a property for a folio credit. That gets you a bit over or under a penny per point (not a good deal).
Well, I signed up recently for the SPG cards and switched spending from Hilton cards to SPG. Guess I was numbed by all the ‘gee golly, Starwood has these great properties, blah blah blah..”. With the HH devaluation, my scenario (no paid stays,only CC spend and only hotel redemptions) made it seem attractive to start collecting SPG points rather than 3+X HH points. I will ride it out for a while but to realize that the primary differentiating factor (more aspirational properties) is washed out by lack of appropriate redemption opportunities is a bummer. My bad for not doing a more detailed review.