You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
The norms have changed but passengers don’t always know this in advance, which makes for a stark clash of expectations. One United passenger was shocked to learn that nobody would be permitted to spread out into wide open seats on a recent flight: the poors stay packed in the poors section.
The front half of the plane is completely empty and they won’t let anyone in the back move around. I thought they were kidding. Really, @United? It’s Christmas. ✈️✈️✈️ pic.twitter.com/2Xd62HOp10
— Art ♔ Soaps ♔ Royalty (@LadyFilmFatale) December 26, 2024
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating, for a little while longer! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once had a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative. Their plane, their rules, and they can change the rules even after many decades of forming passenger expectations.
Changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for. It is against the airline rules, not theft, but it is still not allowed if a flight attendant decides not to allow it.
If I was assigned a seat in a 3 seat or 4 seat row with the other seats in the row unassigned (due to low passenger count), I would not be a happy camper if someone from another assigned seat would sit in my row, thus denying me the benefit of extra space and even lying down. Even if I was in a 2 seat row, and the seat next to me was empty, I would not appreciate someone from “the back” gratuitously taking the empty seat without asking for permission first.
An even better argument Gary is it could be a weight and balance issue. But let’s leave that hypothesis out.
But we do love the stories of yesteryear where little Gary Leff would spread out face down on a seat cushion thousands would fart into.
Phoning it in by reposting a previous blog again huh? I k no own it is the holidays but better, IMHO, to not post anything than recycle tired old articles
I have noticed that American airlines has been announcing that the flight is “full”, even though I have counted 6-13 empty seats in flight.
A few years ago on a Condor flight out of FRA we spotted two unoccupied premium seats. As we were terribly cramped in coach with the heads of reclined passengers in front of us visible, tray tables and screen unusable, we asked about upgrading. We were moved to the better seats and simply charged the difference to a credit card in air. The next 8 hours passed in comfort and we got a good meal, too.
Why wouldn’t a revenue-savvy airline make this an option.
Gary
I will give you another reason, when we plan ULH flight ie JNN-EWR the CG is planned in a certain spot as fuel burns normally the CG moves AFT which decreases fuel burn, in short flight the CG is not so important but on ULH/LH flights CG planning is critical. 20 pacs moving from the far aft section to the start of EP on a 16 hour flight will change the fuel burn and cause an over burn, which could lead to diversion , ask me how I know.
The easiest answer would be that passengers can move around in the class they purchased. So if you bought economy, you can move to another seat in economy but not to plus.
A better example (I never liked the Lexus one) is that if you pay for nosebleed seats at a baseball game you can’t move to a seat behind the catcher because it’s empty. This analogy makes better sense to me.
There were countering view points expressed in posts here and Live and let’s fly in very this topic just last month.
Why is this being revisited?
I agree with United’s stance. As someone eligible for Economy Plus, I want it to be reserved for people who have status or buy the upgrade. Same reason that I can’t just plonk myself in Premium Economy or Business just because it’s empty. Otherwise I’m better off just assigning a seat in the back and hoping I can sneak forward.
Some airlines want the passengers to be as miserable as possible so they can extract extra money from them in the future. I have been able to move from a coach seat to another coach seat on Asian airlines when space is available without any problem. The phony center of gravity argument doesn’t seem to apply. Not surprisingly, I rate the Asian airlines I have flown on higher than any USA airline.
Why attain tier status if you can get an upgrade because there’s an empty seat in first class?
@DunkinDFDubya I have been curious for years about how Southwest is able to allow people to select any seat on the plane while other airlines claim switching seats brings about a weight and balance issue. What does Southwest do to prevent this issue, and why can’t other airlines learn from it?
Since you’re just reposting old stories with new “catchy titles”, perhaps we could get one on how they have banned smoking and have a title like, “Passengers have lost more freedoms”. Seems about as relevant as this one.
I’m with the airlines. I bought an exit row once. They randomly moved some tall guy there next to me with at no extra charge. Do I get a refund then? I’m tall that’s why I bought the extra leg room!
Wtf Gary! You get what you pay for and no more. Period. End of story. Why the heck are people
So over entitled these days they think they can just take things for free with no repercussions? YOU BUY Y YOU GET Y.
@Guflyer When left to nature, people tend to sort themselves in a manner that maximizes the distance between them. Think of a men’s room with twelve urinals and three guys in it – they’re not likely to be standing shoulder to shoulder. That’s what’s going on on SWA flights. So, I don’t think changing seats is a balance issue, if the airline says it is they’re probably lying. I was on a half-empty flight recently where the airline (Delta) moved people to the front because the back was overloaded.
Once the extra legroom coach seats have a price — and it’s not immaterial, I’ve seen it well over $100 on many int’l flights — you simply cannot allow the regular economy pax to take them when they are unoccupied. Just like you can’t allow them to take first class seats. This is common sense, and it would not be fair to either the airline or the pax who have paid for those seats. Personally, I’d prefer to live in a world where there was no additional cost to any “better” economy class seat, but economics make that world impossible these days.
Back in the Golden Age of Travel, I recall sitting in the singular seat type economy class section, dreaming of someday sitting in the front first class section on the othe side of the heavy velvet curtain that separated the two types of seats. Now, there is just a hint of a barrier, if any, between the two cabin types, and within each cabin are a myriad of seat types at different monetization rates. Meanwhile, unless you are in a pre-boarding zone, you are subject to high risk of encountering an incommunicative seat squatter in your pre-paid assigned seat. Good luck in getting this sorted in short-of-savage manner. Have a nice flight!
This is not complicated. If you want extra legroom in coach, pay for it.
If you want a lie-flat, pay for it.
If you want a cocktail, pay for it.
I can’t move from a regular coach seat on Amtrak to a sleeperette just because it’s unoccupied.
I can’t move from an upper balcony seat to orchestra-center seat on broadway because the seat is unoccupied after the curtain goes up.
Seriously, pay for what you want or shut up. Nothing is free.
I believe that JetBlue used to allow the purchase the extra room seats on board.
@Gary —> The individual who buys a ticket today has a choice between “basic” and “regular” economy. It’s the individual’s choice. So, too, is it a choice (or sometimes perk of status) to book and pay for an “extra leg room” seat (presuming no status).* To then permit that “basic economy” pax to move into that Exit Row or that extra legroom seat DOES mean that he or she is getting for free what I had to pay for. Presuming I’m not looking at a 14-hour flight but rather something like SFO-ORD or AUS-DCA — in other words, a flight short enough where one can survive the journey in a middle seat in Coach — the airlines are correct: why should I buy that extra leg room seat for as much as $100+ when I can just gamble that my flight is at such a time when it is likely to be only half-full and I can save $$$ and just upgrade myself once the doors are closed?
_______________
* If I log in to my Aadvantage account, American wants me to pay for an “extra leg room” or “exit row” seat. But if I don’t log in and, instead, enter my Alaska Mileage Plan number, those seats are open to me free of charge owing to my status with AS.\
Your historic example is likely flawed. Back then all seats were likely the same. I don’t expect that economy could just move into first class seating. Economy plus is an upgraded seating and rightly not self upgradable.
If Gary is implying that airlines should just allow people to take any empty seat they want, then basically you’d have a free-for-all with people constantly scrambling for seats and then flights delayed by easily half an hour or more.
Not to mention, inevitably people (probably the same people who are the gate lice) would then start grabbing empty seats they see even before the boarding door closes.
If I were an airline I would not be ok with that.
Like several other commenters already said here, if you want a different seat, then pay for it.
Weight and balance don’t really matter after the plane takes off so that’s not an excuse
The last time I flew on a 777 I sat solo in economy in the forward section which was full while economy plus was about 50% full. FA asked if my seat mates and I were together and then was nice enough to tell me (I didn’t ask) I could move to an empty row which happened to be economy plus.
Agreed you pay for what you want but one could argue you are paying for what want to make sure you get. I’m fine paying for an economy plus seat to guarantee I get it, and someone takes an economy plus seat away from me that doesn’t affect me whatsoever. Different story of course if I have an empty row and someone sneaks from economy and joins me.
Everyone should sit where they are assigned and once in flight and the seatbelt sign is off they can manuever accordingly to places that don’t affect someone who paid for the seat’s comfort (or the balance of the plane).
Gary, if you take it without paying for it, that IS stealing. Get over it and write an original article. This is definitely the second time you published this article. Perhaps the third.
It’s amazing the number of straw man arguments that can be conjured up by the masses. Gary’s point, which has been conveyed repeatedly, is that there is no loss to either the airline or other passengers when someone elects to change their seat mid-air. There is simply no logical contradiction to this truism.
I think the load balance on LH and ULH might be an issue but not on most domestic flights.
However, I do think it makes sense to make a clear line rule on this. UA was probably forced to do this bc they let it be a case-by-case thing and someone who paid for the extra legroom or space up front or bulkhead/exit row, then had someone NOT be considerate and take the window & middle seats to stay together and get legroom, or sit in front of them and then recline. I am sure things like this happened enough that enough people complained and they made this rule. And probably also FA complained bc they were having to make decisions about this and people were arguing.
A lot of commenters on here are saying things like “well as long as it doesn’t impinge my area, I am fine with people moving”…. I literally can’t imagine this relies far to heavily on the average plane passenger having this much consideration. Much simpler to just have a clear rule and not rely on random traveler’s judgements about when they are impinging on the space of someone who paid extra. Do I wish we lived in a different world where this could be done? Of course, but I am guessing based on the almost daily unruly passenger stories, it cannot.
If I’m in oremium economy either an empty seat ir teo beside me, I’m quite hapoy. Next, authorized by Gary, a couple of basic economy passengers self upgrade to sit in those empty seats.. I understand Gary will be sipping his predeparture beverage in first and is oblivious to the chaos that ensues behind him in the mad scramble for best unoccupied seats. It’s like at a concert or sports event. It’s not OK to self upgrade
This is a perfectly fair policy. Nobody up front wants those people in the back grabbing all the empty seats.
Why should the luck of the draw shift away from the higher payers over to the lower payers?
An empty seat next to me is my good luck and now someone who didn’t even pay for my section wants to usurp it because this seat is better than the one they paid for?
I think people should be given some latitude to move around within their exact same cost region of the plane and that’s it.
Airplane seats aren’t Christmas gifts, grubbers. Yeesh the masses are awful.
Gary, I’m with you although based on the above comments we’re in the minority. It appears there are many adult children who are commenting on this particular topic. They are in no way being harmed by people moving around once the flight has taken off. Their seats are not being taken from them. Although it seems as though nimbyism is alive and well on this topic. You folks need to lighten up.
Breaking news: Gary brings up the same tired topic he’s been harping on for *checks tweet* 5 years now.
It’s starting to feel like you have an alert to track social media mentions anytime someone tweets at airlines about this issue. If you want it, pay for it. What’s so hard to understand about that?
You should be able to move to any empty seat in your class after the plane has boarded. Economy is a class. Premium economy is a class. Exit rows have to be ok’ed by the FAs or GAs.
A Mercedes is actually a decent comparison. A E/C300 is basically a premium economy seat.
You want first pay for it. Business pay for it. Premium economy pay for. You pay for basic economy, you get basic.
DaveS –
Like a lot of FFs who count on status to upgrade I’m sure Gary spends a fair amount of time in steerage.
I can easily buy into the points made here. But when this travel expert headlines it as about social class, he quickly loses me. Budget travelers are not necessarily poor. It has been said for many years, “even when money is no object, price is always a consideration”
By the way, this point about the poor and cheap seats, was already written by others, more than a few years ago.
Economy to economy seems fine to me. Should be allowed to move around if open seats. Moving up to open premium seats can be debated. There is no weight issue, southwest let’s anyone sit anywhere every plane they fly. So that excuse is gone to not allow swapping seat locations.
On a 4 hour Jet2 flight recently, we were sat in 1A and 1B, which we paid £30 extra each for. Guy in 2C wanted to move to 1C but the crew refused to allow it unless he paid the charge for the extra legroom. He was very rude and went on and on about it for about 20 minutes before giving up and returning to 2C. I wouldn’t have been very happy if he had been allowed to sit there for free when we had paid for it! I’m also cabin crew for a different airline and we allow people to move to any seat in the same cabin after take off for free, except for the extra legroom seats. We charge for those seats as we get commission, so why would we let you sit there for free?
The solution seems simple enough. Give the flight attendants the ability to sell upgrades in the air. It’s not very complicated.
@MikeP “there is no loss to either the airline or other passengers when someone elects to change their seat mid-air. There is simply no logical contradiction to this truism.” Permit me to run rings around you logically. If you are in the Y+ seat 15C and someone steals 15B, are you not affected negatively? If the take 14C and recline? If the take 16C and play some game that has them tapping on the screen? As a aside, I want to meet the idiot that thought having games on the IFE that require repetitive tapping. I might need a good defense lawyer after.
Gary’s hotel logic: Unsold suites should be open even to those without status because “guests who pay for suites get suites and are in no way harmed when other guests get them for free.”
Gary’s rental car logic: Unrented luxury cars should be open even to those without status because “renters who pay for luxury cars get luxury cars and are in no way harmed when other renters get them for free.”
Gary’s cruise ship logic: Unpaid suites should be open to everyone because “cruisers who pay for suites get suites and are in no way harmed when other cruisers get them for free.”
So if you buy the “cheap” seats to a concert and there are better seats available – you’ll still be in your cheap seat. Buy the seat for your Butt, not the one the scrunches your nuts!
To Jessie, As a now retired 40 yr Captain, weight and balance always matter.
To the author, old story..the baseball stadium analogy is a solid one.
You want a better seat, buy it.