The National Mediation Board has called American Airlines and its flight attendants union to D.C. for a meeting this Saturday, after what the union described as “last ditch” negotiations failed just over a week ago.
The union shared this message with cabin crew today:
Friday, June 28, 2024
Negotiations Update #63APFA and AA Called to Washington, D.C.
This morning, National Mediation Board (NMB) Board Members requested leaders from the APFA and AA Negotiating Committees return to Washington, D.C., for a meeting tomorrow (Saturday, June 29, 2024). After weeks of intensive mediation broke off last week, your APFA Negotiating Team has continued to aggressively press our case that American Airlines Flight Attendants need a contract that addresses our concerns. The time is long overdue for American Airlines management to resolve these negotiations and agree to the contract we deserve.
We will share more information after this meeting.
Flight attendants haven’t had a pay increase since January 1, 2019. Their contract became amendable four and a half years ago. The union told its members to expect to be released to strike. They’ve sent out strike handbooks to crew:
Inside, they’re warning crew about working if the union calls a strike:
American appears to have increased its financial offer during negotiations. A Mediation Board gag order, that the union has honored more in the breach than observance, means that the exact details of the company’s offer remain unconfirmed.
However a Mediation Board that doesn’t want to release flight attendants to strike, especially before the Presidential election, could certainly hang their hat on a new offer this month as evidence that negotiations haven’t reached an impasse.
- Since a majority of the Mediation Board was appointed by the President, and the President has power to delay any strike, he ‘wears’ the consequences both to the economy and to inconvenienced voters should the union strike. This would also spike airfares dramatically, as demand would chase remaining seats on Delta, Southwest and United.
- It could cost President Biden re-election and he’s presently in a difficult spot to begin with given that betting markets now show every potential swing state but Maine trending towards former President Trump.
- President Biden doesn’t want to have to make a decision to delay a strike himself, because this would cost him union support. In the much-discussed scenario where he steps down to make room for Vice President Kamala Harris to run, she couldn’t act against unions while remaining confident of securing the nomination in late August.
Does the President’s weakened polling make the Mediation Board more or less likely to release flight attendants to strike? On the one hand they may be less concerned about protecting the President. On the other hand doing so could ultimately be what costs votes in Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Arizona – and Democrats are trying to win in each house of Congress, too. Members of the Mediation Board want to be appointed to roles by future Democratic Presidents, of course.
I do not have inside information on the intentions of the Mediation Board for discussions on Saturday. This seems highly unusual. Could they be bringing the parties to D.C. to lock them in a room until they get over the finish line with an agreement? Could they be telling the parties in person that they will – or will not – declare an impasse, and therefore whether a 30-day cooling off period is set in motion which is necessary before any strike?
If they strike, AA should lock them out and hire FAs who want to do their job…FA union should have take the 17% increase with no strings attached. Talk about a union that doesn’t care about all its members…just themselves & senior FAs who do very little.
I’d find it hard to believe that they are going to call everyone to DC outside of business hours (I mean the NMB offices aren’t even open on weekends), just to say “hey guys you need to continue negotiating as you have been doing for the last 5 years”. I think this is going to be setting the grounds for declaring an impasse next week and possibly discussing that they will have to make a S160 determination, which I’m sure Biden will agree to a PEB, which means we are probably 90 days from a Strike… The negotiating leverage of the Union is about to skyrocket!
These employees have contracts that are so out of wack with the industry, and so far behind, that they all need huge retroactive raises and benefits and the same going forward. They have an awful job dealing with the public, travel, being away from family. They should be paid appropriately and to the industry standard. PS – we have r/t tickets from FL to Montreal end of July and this could mess us up big time.
@Dave and @Jeff – what the FAs “need” and any leverage they may have doesn’t change the fact that AA simply can’t afford to pay them as they want (let alone for retro pay). If something unsustainable is agreed upon if AA is pressured into taking it expect a bankruptcy filing in 12 months and all contracts would be cut (reality – check out history). Also not sure if AA gives pensions to FAs but, if so, expect those to be cut like happened in the past.
Just because employees feel they are entitled to certain pay doesn’t mean the company can afford it. Quit and start over w DL or UA if you hate AA so much.
AA has a real opportunity here to reset their onboard service. Lock the bums out.
The level of ignorance from the “lock them out” commenters is palpable. A minimum of 6 weeks to train (and that’s after an interview and offer) and I don’t think AA has the deep pockets to withstand that. Oh, and did I mention that most of the trainers are line flight attendants so the training timeline would probably get pushed further out.
I’m reminded of an old Fram Oil commercial as a kid where the tagline was, “You can pay me now, or you can pay me later”.
SCABS among us…For those social media frequenters AA’s very own flywithgarrett (Garrett M. Ray) is the son of a legacy SCAB (James A. Ray – Continental 1983). Garrett has a lot of nerve promoting pilots when his father and fellow SCABS took jobs away from dozens of pilots. There were 2019 Continental SCABS that have infested the airline industry since 1983. Some stayed at Continental (now UAL); others moved to different carriers like Garrett’s Daddy, James who wound up at US Airways.
Lmao about this issue costing Biden the election. It’s already over after the nation was finally shown what a walking corpse he is. Dems only chance is a new candidate, or rampant fraud.
Retro pay would be the dumbest possible thing to give in on. Pay more for work that they already willingly accepted pay for, and that provides zero future incentive? AA deserves to go bankrupt if they offer that.
I sympathize with those who are wishing for an employer lockout. While it would cause significant hardship for both the employees and the company, it balances the level of power between the two groups. Certainly, it represents a situation much closer to that which would exist in a free society. The goal should be for the individual rights of both parties to be respected.
The Supremes just ruled to “let ‘er rip”
And AA FAs are the least of the Brandon’s problems
The above comment isn’t from the real Tim Dunn
Tim is already a few deep at Zocalo’s
AA gave the pilots big money and ignored the attendants. Sexist company that many Americans still support and patronize. Send AA an email and let them know how you feel about the blatant ignored work group of your f /a s. Sure hope the f/a s get paid finally.
@lennyD is correct. Why not accept the offer of 17% and continue with the negotiations. AA has said they will match pay at the highest carriers. There will be no retro. The APFA is continuing to fail the membership.
no zocalos around here. just ready for those big boys w/ their big signs on the front row to live up to their rhetoric and AA to hit the big “reset” button
Any concern about AA or its FAs evaporated last night
@tim The Flight Attendants need to understand the long term effects if they cross the picket line and become a scab. They will wear the label like a scarlet letter for the remainder of their career. They will never be hired for a union job afterwards. It is a heavy price to pay. Make sure you have the finances before you vote to strike.
If you have any doubt, read the history of the strikes at Eastern Airlines.
I want to know what happens to the people that ha e paid for expensive flight n they go on strike
Gene,
if AA FAs go on strike, the chances of a lockout are high – and AA may never have an FA union again.
If you think the vast majority of AA FAs have any warm fuzzies about unions, you have been watching the static on TV at 3 am
Tim
‘If you think the vast majority of AA FAs have any warm fuzzies about unions, you have been watching the static on TV at 3 am’
Personally, I think anyone who defends Delta’s 495-595 K miles biz class one way redemptions on Saudia as a good bargain has been listening to the background radiation from the Big Bang and should not be taken seriously as a commentator on anything flight related
Jon,
I defend good business results.
You and others think that companies exist to meet YOUR needs and THAT is why you are disgruntled.
I don’t like the higher price of milk and gasoline but I don’t take it out on people that understand that Kroger and Exxon are for-profit businesses.
None of which changes that AA FAs have been taken to the cleaners by the APFA and the company sense the blood in the water.
AA knows that the majority of FAs will cross the picket line and AA could very well lock out the union and no one would look back.
Others talk about Eastern.
A far more recent and relevant example was Northwest and their mechanics union. They struck, the company locked them out, the number of employees fell by 80%, and the union was decertified when DL mechanics chose not to be unionized, making the former NW mechanics a small minority of the total DL maintenance workforce.
Labor is not in the driver’s seat any more. To avoid a strike, UPS agreed to a costly new contract and they are working their employees harder. The automakers agreed to a costly new contract and then accelerated plans to build more cars and trucks outside of the US.
AA is not a healthy company. They know what they can afford.
The only people that will regret pushing for a strike are those that will find out they are worse off.
Tim
You claim that Delta offers good intl biz class reimbursements.
if someone claims that a particular gas station selling gas at say $15/gallon is offering a good price, then I would question that person’s relationship to reality too.
@tim
AA would not initially lock the FA’s out. They would need mgmt to train the new hires. AA may enter bankruptcy and the FA may or may not have a union afterwards..its all speculation. The senior FA’s are most likely knowledgeable about unions (esp former TWA, Reno, USAir, AW). The bottom half of the seniority list probably have no idea whats coming if they strike.
Northwest and the pilots were notoriously at odds in the 60s. The FAs threatened to strike in late 1997. Management started to train new hire classes in Jan 1998 before the strike date. The new hires were not told there was a potential strike and were harassed by other FA’s and labeled strike breakers even though the contract was settled and no strike took place.
@Gene do you personally know FAs at AA? I do. Senior ones and junior ones. They are all educated in what will happen if there is a strike. The union has seen to it that all information is given to them. The senior ones have firsthand knowledge since most of walked in November of 1993. Five and half years is way too long to wait for a pay raise and in that time it has just made them angry. It must be demoralizing to them to have to wait that long for a contract and a raise. The strike vote was 97% couldn’t be any more clear than that. Even if say 25% crossed the picket line it would shut the airlines down. Just like in 93.
@Tim Dunn
You sure that first comment was from you?
Very different writing style indeed
If you’re going to strike, do it now.:
– The 4th of July holiday is next week, great way to get management’s attention
– This summer looks to be the all time peak for USA travel, gets the attention of PAX
– The Rep & Dem National conventions are just around the corner, bad optics
– Most flights are currently near capacity, lots of AA PAX left stranded
– BOD and stockholders have trigger fingers of late, very sensitive about consistent dividends
– any significant drop in AA stock could trigger an activist investor (Elloitt 2.0), something the boys in the C-Suite wants to avoid at all cost
– Chapter 22 (Chapter 11 twice) is off the table, p**sing off all class of creditors and jeopardizing future slots at Boeing and Airbus
Why does the union accept a “gag order”? The union members pay union dues monthly and deserves to know the current status of the negotiations..
Maybe the reason the negotiation secession is scheduled on Saturday 6/29 is so Robert Isom (Current CEO) can attend and plea his case in one last effort to resolve these issues before the Flight Attendant are released to strike. In the past Parker (former CEO) would contract out the companies chief negotiator.
Joe T,
gag orders are common in labor negotiations – on both sides – so negotiations happen at the table and not in the media
220,
curve balls are a good thing every now and then
@AC AA made ~$800M in profit and $1.4B in free cash flow last year.
The average flight attendant in the U.S. makes around $45k per year, a 25% pay rise is an additional $11,250. Multiplied across their 28k flight attendants and you’re looking at $315M. So they can afford it, it’ll be a hit to them yes but they can afford it. And considering they were going to pay 17% more anyway it was going to be a $214M hit anyway. So the difference is about $100M a year which they can afford.
If you want to talk about unsustainable labor contracts, look at how they are giving pilots an extra $9B over 5 years… What’s even funnier is how all the airlines signed those pilot contracts saying it’s because of the shortage and now the airlines don’t even know what to do with the pilots they have, AA has stopped hiring them – less than a year after the contract was signed. Also goes to show why we need to move to less pilots in the cockpit, they do stupid things like take off on closed runways and are the second largest cost on the plane after fuel…
@Tim Dunn
Also worth mentioning that current ceo Robert Isom was at NWA when they broke the incompetent mechanics union.
The juniot FAs APFA is supposedly fighting for will cross the picket line. They, like APFA indirectly said, don’t have the money.
For the people who say it will bankrupt the airline, maybe Isom and his cronies could give up some of their salary! 51 million just for Isom! Why he deserves that is unfathomable!
A220,
I knew there were things we would agree on.
As much as some want to think that AA can just shell out hundreds of millions more in compensation, they have another think coming. NW knew the line they could not financially cross and paid the short and medium term pain to reset parts of their cost structure.
Executive compensation is heavily done based on the performance of the stock. AAL stock is down 35% in the past year and 18% year to date. In other words, exec compensation isn’t going to amount to anywhere what FAs think.
And let’s see how much of their compensation they will take in stock.
Looking forward to updates from Gary on how things went in this meeting.
I won’t be able to vote for any tentative contract that does not include retro pay and that makes work rules worse than they already are. Speaking for myself only, I’m willing to compromise on hourly rate.
As for the election, I live in a swing state and will be voting for Biden as I want a progressive society, not the fascist vision that Trump and the rest of the Republicans want.
Hell would freeze over first before I’d vote for Trump, but, if Biden were to step in to squash a strike, I would vote for a progressive third part candidate such as the Green Party.
For the anti-FA posters who seem to love this thread and constantly rooting against us for one reason or another… You should understand that the AA board doesn’t care about passengers either beyond your money. When you see amenities going away from the past, it’s of the same penny pinching mindset.
FAs have more in common with passengers than passengers have with the AA board. The things that you want on the planes we want too! Things we have pushed for is better coffee, better snacks, better food, better destinations, seatback screens, less delAAys and CAAncellations, more amenities in general… these are all things FAs want too. The AA board is more than happy to charge you more for less.
Flights Attendants ARE NOT Pilots. LOCK THEM OUT.
The ignorant commenters keep spewing out vitriol about $51 million for Isom and the other execs. They might not realize this (but the Union execs DO) that those numbers were baded off of OLD stock prices and OLD projections of profits. I bet the execs are now getting 75% less (if that) as we sit here today. But they won’t reprint those signs that the “clapping seals” are holding up on the lines. The APFA are doing their members a disservice by lying to their members.
14hrs max shift and how many are needed per aitcraft
LII Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) Title 14—Aeronautics and Space CHAPTER I—FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION SUBCHAPTER F—AIR TRAFFIC AND GENERAL OPERATING RULES PART 91—GENERAL OPERATING AND FLIGHT RULES Subpart F—Large and Turbine-Powered Multiengine Airplanes and Fractional Ownership Program Aircraft § 91.533 Flight attendant requirements.
14 CFR § 91.533 – Flight attendant requirements.
CFR
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§ 91.533 Flight attendant requirements.
(a) No person may operate an airplane unless at least the following number of flight attendants are on board the airplane:
(1) For airplanes having more than 19 but less than 51 passengers on board, one flight attendant.
(2) For airplanes having more than 50 but less than 101 passengers on board, two flight attendants.
(3) For airplanes having more than 100 passengers on board, two flight attendants plus one additional flight attendant for each unit (or part of a unit) of 50 passengers above 100.
man, some of you may fly, but beyond putting your tray tables up and returning your seat to its upright position really don’t know much about the ins-and-outs of cabin life.
A lock-out or out-right firing of the F/As is both impractical and illegal – you cannot fire a union member (of any union) once they are on strike. As someone else stated, these positions are governed by the FAA with stringent training that takes weeks and months to complete. You cannot just grab replacements off the street.
For those crying that AA is poor, that is a direct slap in the face to these cabin crew members who have been ignored since 2019. Management reached agreement with the other AA labor groups while by-passing the F/As. Pilots received monumental raises as well as back pay (retired pilots even received the back pay)
By conducting a faulty sales strategy, AA management has placed themselves in this bind. They could have settled many other times, but chose not to. During the time when they were bringing in billions but chose to remodel the Dallas campus, or give Parker a golden parachute or buy planes or pay millions to Isom for his efforts to force the stock lower.
Remember this is the same management group that tried to cast blame on a nine-year-old girl for not knowing she was being filmed in the lavatory. Regardless of the company spin, ALL decisions make their way to Isom. He gave approval for the “hired lawyer” to pursue this outlandish accusation – no lawyer makes unrehearsed or off-the-cuff statements while representing such a big company without buy-in from the C suite. Same with Vasu Raja – he did not make unilateral decisions; Isom supported or instigated them.
Southwest received raise and backpay
Alaska reached agreement
United struggling for new contract
Delta reaping benefit of others efforts
All have in common that they have/were been underpaid.
For those insinuating that the union should have taken 17% raise — the cost of living during the 2019-2023 period rose 20.3%. That is not counting this year. A 17% raise is in essence a pay cut. And that is jus the compensation issue. Unbeknownst to most this is also about better work rules/protections. Did you know that while the F/As get sick days (like most other AA employees) they actually get penalized for using them.
Stick it to the company. If it goes bankrupt it won’t be the first time USAAir went under…
… additionally I will add that AA exists in the EXACT SAME market space conditions as the other big carriers. Same fuel prices, same landing fees, same repair costs, same catering costs. Even the executive pay is relatively equal.
In fact, I would say Southwest and Delta actually incur higher costs as they pay their cabin staff well-above the rate AA currently puts forward.
So why is AA losing money? Do tell…
red,
there was NEVER any requirement that AA or any other airline deal w/ open contracts with FAs before any other group.
And AA has made multiple offers; APFA had ridiculous demands that are far above what they are now asking.
And Delta started the whole cycle of massive pay raises not just for its pilots (the first large group n the industry to settle post covid) and DL added pay for its FAs and other non-union personnel soon after – long before other airlines settled.
Delta FAs don’t need retro because the company increased their pay about as soon as demand returned.
We all get the rules of what can and can’t be done in the event of a strike. FAs can cross the picket line and the company can break the union and the union can be decertified if enough FAs decide they can do better without the union – which at that point would have very limited power.
AA is losing money because it can’t generate the revenue that neither DL or UA do – and UA doesn’t even generate the revenue DL does. It is not a surprise that DL has led the industry w/ pay raises – because they can afford it.
But it isn’t all on Centerpork. AA’s service levels are far below other airlines which is a vicious cycle of losing high value customers. Check out JD Powers ranking of US airlines.
Let me help you out
Delta Air Lines (743)
JetBlue Airways (736)
United Airlines (698)
Alaska Airlines (695)
American Airlines (676)
Air Canada (629)
It’s not a surprise why Delta gets so much more revenue for its service and why customers know the difference between AA service and everyone else’s
The only consolation for AA is that for economy travel, AA was ranked just under average but UA was WELL BELOW average.
I’m not telling you that you don’t have a right to be ticked. I am telling you that a strike could decimate the union and hurt the company even further even with the likelihood that you will never get the amount of pay increases including retro that the union is demanding.
It’s been almost 20 years since the NW/AMFA lockout. Many people in the industry today do not even know about it. If NW managed to survive a lockout of its mechanics, AA can figure out how to survive a lockout of its FAs if that is the way the company chooses to go.
Break their spines and send them packing. AA flight attendants will be the exact same underperforming losers that they are today even if the company caved and gave them every last cent that they demand.
Why pay a premium for lazy workers?
Let them strike. Fire them.
Then they can all find jobs at some nonprofit somewhere doing exactly what they do today…..which is nothing.
@ tim — some truth in what you said. However, NWest moved past the mechanics strike because they outsourced the work. You cannot outsource inflight as easily. Even if you brought in other flight attendants, they still need to pass training on each type of aircraft AA flies
Red,
Of course FAs cannot be outsourced.
the question is whether AA FAs will strike en masse or just the CHAOS type system which won’t do much to the company anyway.
And if it is “just” CHAOS, who knows how long it will go on but the company could always lock the union out.
It is anyone’s guess who will cross the picket line but I suspect it is alot more FAs than you think.
waiting for news from the meeting
SO WHAT HAPPENED?
@Tim- well with the current mismanagement and detrimental moves by Isom and cronies (stock plummeting) how would anyone determine a Chaos flight vs. regular USAAir operations? They looks the same
lock them out
Lock them out
LOCK THEM OUT
LOCK THEM OUT!
@LennyD
AA can’t lock out the FAs, it’s illegal. And the union and its members didn’t want to take a pay cut. They’ve been attempting to reach a contract since 2019, that’s 23% inflation since then with a projected 25% by 2025. Anything less than 25% is a pay cut. If the union and its members didn’t care about themselves, they would take the pay cut. But 99.47% voted to strike, so they definitely care about themselves and their future.
@AC
AA can afford to pay more than a pay cut. They had record profits and could afford bonuses of 5 million for each board member, along with 30 million for Isom. They’ve been funneling money for renovations at headquarters that is barely used. They have a ton of expenses and assets that they spend on just to say they don’t have enough to pay employees. They can figure it out. And any contract that doesn’t include a provision for bankruptcy won’t get voted yes on either. It’s clear what isom and his “leadership” are trying to do, which is union bust but in this day and age information is so readily available that the union members and public can’t truly be fooled. At least the smart ones.
@LennyD
17% would be a pay cut, would you accept a pay cut? Imagine working in public, during a time where management was working remotely, if at all. Were frontline employees and didn’t get frontline pay. Lobbied Congress to bail out the airline eventhough most were furloughed during that. Then watch that same management delay delay delay and take 5 million a piece in bonuses the day after they were legally allowed to collect. Then take another 30 million in bonuses for those record profits. Spend millions upon millions in renovations that don’t even get used. Take 6 months to rebuttal an offer with no change, when they could’ve came back the next week if they were going to offer no change. Then have the nerve to offer a pay cut haha and you think the union doesn’t care or its members? The members didn’t want to accept a pay cut. Nor was there truly “no strings attached”. Especially when you consider that the CEO, while never communicating with its employees directly about the negotiations, all of a sudden side steps the union to offer this pay cut over video? There’s strings if you’re smart enough to deduce them. It’s to buy them more time to delay the contract, so they could collect more money until Isom is ready to switch company’s and collect his exit package. The main goal being to bust the union, because he is definitely not trying to respect its members at all. If he did, he wouldn’t offer anything less than 25% since that’s what inflations rate would be by 2025 (it’s 23% now) since 2019 when the contract became amendable.
Fire,
AA might have beat its OWN previous levels of profits but it hasn’t had comparable levels of operating profits to DL and UA since 9/11.
AA can lock out the UNION if it strikes. FAs then can cross the picket line if they choose.
AA has been poorly run for 2 decades but they are the least able to afford any massive new contract w/ retro – which is why AA is saying they will offer comparable but not retro. DL FAs didn’t get retro because DL started hiking pay as soon after covid as the business supported it and they have now had a couple rounds of pay increases and profit sharing is over $1 billion/year.
AA’s problem is not executive pay or renovations at their HDQ. It is the level of frontline labor costs.
Yes, AA and UA decided to hike the salaries of everyone EXCEPT FAs but there isn’t anything that EVER required that FAs should be given any order of preference in settling contracts.
and UA’s FAs are undoubtedly watching all of this very closely. The chances of them besting whatever AA FAs get by any degree is slim to none.
There will likely be a gap in FA pay and total compensation with DL and WN at the top, then AA and UA, and other airlines mixed in below.
presumably, since we haven’t heard anything, the Feds told the APFA to “cool it” and AA gave SOME indication that there is some room for forward movement for talks