The U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency is proposing to require that all passengers on flights in and out of the United States provide:
- A U.S. address
- Two phone numbers (!)
- An email address
Anyone that does not or cannot comply with this rule would be denied boarding. Airlines would be allowed to keep the information for their own purposes. And they would be permitted, and in some cases required, to share it with foreign governments as well. The regulatory comments docket (“Advance Passenger Information System: Electronic Validation of Travel Documents”) on this proposal closes tonight.
The purpose of the rule is described as “enabl[ing] CBP to determine whether each passenger is traveling with valid authentic travel documents prior to the passenger boarding the aircraft.” This is something that they do today already.
It’s unclear who would be stopped that poses a threat now, though the travel rights of American citizens and others would be burdened. Instead it effectively imposes a travel document requirement on Americans that isn’t provided for in law, and outsources control over travelers to airlines that the agency cannot statutorily impose on its own.
And by attempting to match U.S. addresses, phone numbers and e-mail addresses that exist on a person in a government or private contracted database with those on file with travel documents, there are going to be mismatches because those databases often contain errors. (It’s why ChatGPT thinks I have two degrees from MIT, it confuses my schooling with that of a different Gary Leff.)
By the way, how is an asylum seeker supposed to provide their U.S. address prior to boarding a flight? That forces asylum seekers to take other, more dangerous, routes to get here. It is a very bad idea.
Most people don’t have two phone numbers. How is that supposed to work?
What is this nonsense with two phone numbers? I am sure many people only have one — their cell. I happen to have two cells, but that is unusual. Rather like the requirement in many US embassies to provide two ID documents. Well, since I was not planning to drive in Mexico, I could well have left my license at home. Fortunately forgot to remove it from my wallet. Do the people who make these rules ever test them out on real people befor the famous rollout?
I have a number of questions:
1. Many people, US citizens or otherwise, have only 1 phone number, their cell phone. Where do they get a 2nd number from?
2. What does a foreign visitor do for an address if they are with a tour group? Provide the address of the tour company or address of each hotel on the tour?
3. Why have we not heard of this sooner? Is this a belated April Fools joke?
4. What does a person do for their return overseas if they were just visiting a friend. There will be no matching address database as it will be in someone else’s name.
I’m sure there will be many more questions to ask unless this is a belated April Fool’s joke on someone’s part.
The US tourism
This isn’t about stopping terrorists. It’s about collecting data on Americans who travel overseas.
Agree on the phone numbers – I did away with my land line years ago and am retired so no work number. I have a cell number. Am I supposed to give them my wife’s as the other number? Hopefully some reason prevails or they may force people to get a second number (cheap burner probably) just in order to fly. What BS. Also, in or out of the country you have to show a passport (and visa if applicable) which certainly seems like enough validation.
More control efforts from the left. This is social conditioning at its lowest form. Imagine if they would just use something like this with our southern border.
Presumably a traveler without a landline (or even a mobile; there are such people) could fill in a hotel phone number, or the number for friends / relations they intend to stay with. But the requirement is unwieldy and ridiculous, and is bound to provoke retaliatory ridiculousness from other countries, making all of our lives more difficult.
@Richard – not sure this is left or right just over zealous bureaucrats. FYI it may not help but I just sent a summary of the issue along with a link to the article Gary provided to one of my US Senators who I have worked with in the past to resolve issues. May not help but suggest people also notify their representatives. I’m not sure what role Congress has in stopping something like this but I feel better that it has at least been escalated. BTW, my Senator and his staff are very diligent about follow up so at least I think there will be some review on their part.
Does my Google internet phone number work?
@ Richard Brose Take that partisan MAGA garbage somewhere else. It makes you people look unbalanced, working it into every single conversation. There should be a blocking function here.
That’s what we do now anyway….. we have to give email, an address ( usually a hotel ) and 2 phone numbers, i being mobile and 1 for the hotel or place we are staying. I wonder if they will bring these requirements in on the southern border? 5,000,000 illegals ( that they know of ) since Sleepy Joe took over, what a disgrace he is, what an embarrassment he is and what a shame Americans let this happen, apparently. Maybe they could focus on getting more Immigration Officers at major US International Airports. Last Tuesday I came in to IAD at 14.00. I arrived at my airport hotel at 18.00. 3 hours in a queue, 2 officers serving the great unwashed.
Thanks, @Richard. I was waiting to see how long it was before someone tried to blame liberals for policies created by career government employees who work for multiple administration regardless of political affiliation.
This kind of crazy paranoia began after 9/11. I agree that this is overkill but, in a society where we have no issue posting nearly all of our personal data on-line I’m not sure what all the fuss is about. If anyone thinks the government can’t track you today I’ll have some of what you’re smoking.
212-555-1212
Problem solved. Let’s move on.
A terrible idea (and I’m on the left). Everybody, please go to the link Gary gave and fill out a comment form. I don’t know why this is so late in getting here, normally we’d have a month but today is the deadline. Use it!
AC,
Thanks, every bit helps and we have been doing the same. Last week one day before our return from San Miguel, we received an email from AA stating we would not be able to board unless we verified online forms. This was a total of four times round trip, including re-downloading our passports.
I’m surprised and outraged that Gary would make any mention of refugees. I agree with Richard Brose, the app isn’t enough. Ask for 3 or 4 phone numbers and toeprints of all 10 toes (no exception for amputees even if they’re US Senators) at the Southern Border.
About the only Senators who have pushed back on these sorts of encroachments have been Ron Wyden (left!) and Rand Paul (not left!). Do you think Tom Cotton (Republican!) opposes this? Or Dianne Feinstein (Democrat)?
Both the left and right ‘within the parties’ have been mostly in lock step, and concerns raised haven’t been along partisan lines.
Let’s make a deal. I’ll start providing this as soon as they require same from all the illegals coming into the country.
Absolute nonsense. If this rolls out, let’s just see how long it lasts.
HOW ARE THEY GOING VERIFY THE PHONE NUMBERS?
Grimly25,
Way to go, Saul Alinsky is looking up and nodding!
No, this is not an April Fools Day joke. The CBP proposal was published in the Federal Register in February:
https://papersplease.org/wp/2023/02/06/cbp-proposes-to-require-even-more-information-from-international-air-travelers/
As for email…… create a google email just for this purpose. I created a gmail account just for junk mail. Sparky mentioned a google phone number. Create one with the gmail account created for this purpose. And if you create a junk email account, create a google number for that too.
As for address…. they may already have it if you used it for your driver’s license or had a passport sent to your home. Or, if they specifically as for your current address, and you are sitting in a coffee shop while filling it our, give them your “current address” .
This begs the question: What about those who don’t do e mail? And those who have only one phone number? Or will there be an iron curtain for those people?
@ Dale Give the number of the hotel where you’re staying, the friend you’re crashin with, or the airline you’re flying for that matter. Give them the Empire Carpet number: 800-588-2300. Fill in the Dominos Pizza takeout number nearest your home. Give them the fax number at your workplace or the front desk number in your apartment building. It’s not like anyone’s going to check.
It’s risible that anyone would think this is an agenda from people of the left wing of politics. Clearly an idiot with no understanding of history of the right. This information gathering is fascist. Only an ignorant dumb assed American would this this is left wing driven. Talking to you Dick Brose! Ffs
@Tom – They *are* going to check, and if whatever info you give them doesn’t match whatever they have in their files about you (or a data broker has in its files), they will “recommend” that the airline not allow you to board your flight. See the CBP proposal here:
https://www.regulations.gov/document/USCBP-2023-0002-0001
As the Identity Project says in our comments:
https://papersplease.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/IDP-APIS-comments-3APR2023.pdf
The ostensible purpose of the proposed rule is to enable CBP to determine, prior to departure of a flight, whether an airline passenger or crew member is traveling with a valid, authentic, travel document. But requiring travelers to provide an address in the U.S., an email address, and/or two phone numbers will do nothing to authenticate or validate any documents.
If CBP attempts to “authenticate” travel documents by comparing information provided by travelers with information in either government or commercial databases, it is likely that legitimate travelers will provide information that is deemed “incorrect” because it doesn’t match the information in those databases. Identity thieves, on the other hand, who have obtained information from those databases, are more likely than legitimate travelers to be able to provide APIS contact information matching whatever is in those government or commercial records.
As a document “validation” methodology, collection of this additional information for purposes of comparison with government or commercial databases would be less than useless.
I find it very interesting when the loons on the left get exercised when someone says something that they don’t like. Can’t imagine being around that ilk. Thin skinned? You bet they are!
This requirement for two phone numbers is insanity from the current US administration. What intern thought this up?
Most “asylum seekers” are liars that could have stayed in a dozen other countries anyway. So no big deal on that.
Just go to Google and get a free Google phone number. Easy Peasy
The two phone numbers requirement has generated a lot of response. As stated by GL, the passenger has to give two phone numbers – that does not say the passenger’s two phone numbers. Maybe for a passenger with only one, he or she could provide the phone number of a relative, etc.
Or just walk across the border with no phone numbers, us address email or covid documents and get a free domestic flight etc.
What a drag on US flyers!
It’s insanity! As US citizens traveling out of or into the US must have a passport and they have our address, email and phone numbers from our application for the privilege of having a passport. Truly makes no sense. Who is the genius that authored this?
There is no legal requirement to have a phone and phone number, so there are probably some Americans who don’t have a phone number at the time of booking an international trip.
These power-hungry, “you’re suspicious if we want you to be” government law enforcement types and private sector enablers want to have massive social network surveillance mapping capabilities in play and this is par for such course. And those law-abiding types who are “different” may be wrongly hassled for being “different”.
And yet the Biden Regime has no problem with thousands walking across the border every day with no phone at all.
And what about some elderly people who haven’t gotten with the times? It’s unlikely such a person would be traveling alone but I could easily picture a parent who lives with their children and doesn’t have an e-mail. I have a SIL that AFIAK still does not have an e-mail and she has visited the US with a more savvy sibling.
Just because 99% of people will have no problem with this (assuming the # of where you are going is acceptable for one of the numbers) doesn’t mean it won’t trip up some people. And another group that could be tripped up: Those that enter the US to engage in long distance hiking–it’s possible to cross the border and immediately head out, your first-night location would be the name of the trail you’re on–but trails don’t have phone numbers.
Last September when I was returning from Poland, upon checking in at Krakow, I was told I needed to provide my US address. I’m British, but a Permanent Resident. Gave the person my Virginia drivers license and replied that the address was old and if he wanted the new one. He said it didn’t matter.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fly into northern Mexico and walk across the border. No one cares down there ..
Address? When I travel overseas I never ever have an address. I wonder around for months on end. That’s the whole point of travel…to TRAVEL
That is absolutely ridiculous. The only people I know who have two phones, specifically a burner phone and a cell phone are either criminals or spouses who are cheating.. the only other people have two phones are senior citizens who have a landline.Under existing US law proof positive ID is an American passport.. sometimes USA customs officials will also ask for your driver’s license.Full stop. That being said, when I travel to certain countries I have to fill out a form indicating where I’m staying and how long I’ll be staying including Canada.When I go to Hawaii I must indicate on the agricultural formwhere I’m staying. However, neither the Hawaii form nor any foreign forms require two telephone numbers. That is and would be ridiculous. Mexico now has electronic entry and only scanning your passport at an entry point and does not require any advanced notice of phone numbers or addresses. An American passport suffices. Takes less than 5 minutes to get through customs. They also no longer have red light green light of searches of luggage and only occasionally will ask randomly some people for an inspection of their luggage. There is no longer any customs form given to anybody entering Mexico. The United Kingdom also has electronic pass through customs where you just scan your passport.. first time I did it I actually thought that somehow I had avoided going through customs. actually gives you the feeling of borderless travel as I have experienced when traveling in the European Union.
@warren trout:
> Address? When I travel overseas I never ever have an address. I wonder around for months on end.
These days most people will have an address in mind where they plan to stay the night even if they plan to move around after that. I actually have entered many countries with no planned address–but that was pre-internet, my parents found airport resources for finding lodging worked better than what was available outside the country. Now I can see no reason for such an approach–did it once on a road trip and had it backfire. We pulled into town–and discovered basically the entire city was no vacancy. We ended up driving two more hours to find a place to sleep.
Real Right Wing Republicans obviously oppose this as we don’t support giving government power over our lives and giving bureaucrats more control over us. This will of course be used against us and never for us. Yes, this is already done with verification but it adds another layer and level of bureaucracy. Unfortunately, very few real Republicans are in congress or positions of power. They are nearly all rinos. Both parties are owned and controlled by the same people. The media, academia, and even the travel blogging industry are controlled by the same people.
The last line about asylum seekers not having an address is a really poor argument against this because we have enough fake economic illegals who abuse the asylum process and then disappear when their case is called. If this would only be used to stop illegals and fake asylum seekers, this wouldn’t be a bad policy but just like with the patriot act, drug laws, or pretty much every law it only hurts freedom loving people. It also hurts socialists as well.
How many people’s 2nd number will be 1-900-MIXALOT?
@Richard Brose : “woke…cancel culture…virtue signaling…culture war…Saul Alinsky…blah, blah, blah.”
This is what happens because in our country the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government — regardless of major political party in the country — tend to have a knee-jerk response to the wishes of the CBP, a response of supporting the CBP. That and the public tend to so easily feel insecure that there is a general tendency of the public and their representatives to support or provide cover to the authoritarian tendencies of law enforcement.
Think of the dollars wasted when they match every second number back to Jenny at 867-5309
Not a few of us live overseas as expats and have not a US driver’s license nor US residence nor US phone number. So, I’m obliged to give my daughter’s home address, her phone number and then, I guess, my sister’s phone number or that of my wife’s friend. What’s next?
Some live outside the US as expatriates and have no US residence, driver’s license or phone number. So, on the rare occasion when I return I’ll be obliged to give my daughter’s home address, her mobile number and now my sister or wife’s friend’s mobile number. What next?
Doesn’t really take all that much effort to create a throwaway email address or phone number. You can do either relatively quickly, and phone numbers change hands so often they can’t really be used to authenticate anything reliably. Same applies to addresses. Isn’t all that hard. None of this is secure and like the people that proposed this idiocy it is entirely outdated and meaningless to any person determined to bypass it.