You used to be able to take any open seat in your cabin once the doors closed. You might move closer to the front, grab an aisle seat, or head for an empty row in the back so you could stretch out.
As a kid I remember making a bee-line for an empty middle row on an American Airlines flight from Honolulu to Sydney, so I could lay down and sleep.
- Self-upgrading was never allowed. You couldn’t just move from economy to business class.
- Now, though, airlines charge for ‘premium’ seats in coach so they don’t usually let you go from regular coach to extra legroom seats for free, even if the seats are empty once the doors close.
- People might not pay if they knew they could take an extra legroom seat for free that was empty once everyone had boarded!
On a recent United Airlines flight from Honolulu to Los Angeles, there were plenty of empty seats and passengers wanted to spread out. They asked permission from a flight attendant. Things did not go well. According to a passenger who wasn’t allowed to move,
- The flight attendant quoted them a price of $180
- When that offer was declined, the crewmember blocked off the empty seats by opening up each seat’s tray tables.
#UnitedAirlinesSUCKS!! May 24. HNL to LAX (UA 1169). Flight attendant wanted to charge $180 pp to allow us to change to empty seats when about to close doors, when denied she opened the trays to block everyone. pic.twitter.com/r3xCU3R5CR
— Sunny1Knob (@M4n3ct4) June 10, 2024
Years ago open seats were pretty much fair game. Now different airlines take different approaches. Southwest still has open seating! And once you’re on the plane it’s Lord of the Flies complete with seat-saving and crumpled up tissues to keep people away from the middle seat they hope to save.
Delta calls their extra legroom seats at the front of the plane “Comfort+” and it’s a different fare type. Effectively, it’s a different cabin just like coach is different than business class.
When American Airlines introduced free drinks to Main Cabin Extra extra legroom seats they left it up to flight attendants whether or not to stop passengers from moving into those seats – but around a year and a half ago began asking flight attendants to crack down on passengers moving to get extra space for free.
In the past, United has argued that passengers moving up to open seats with extra legroom is immoral; that it’s unfair to other passengers and it’s stealing from the airline.
Hi, Krunal. Economy Plus seats do carry an extra charge and letting customers move to those seats is not fair to the customers who did pay for the upgrade. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
The customers who choose to pay for Economy Plus are then afforded that extra space. If you were to purchase a Toyota, you would not be able to drive off with a Lexus, because it was empty. ^BA
— United Airlines (@united) September 7, 2019
But according to this logic United shouldn’t be able to sell cheap fares or offer MileagePlus awards because it is unfair to people that pay full fare? Of course passengers who buy Economy Plus get Economy Plus and are in no way harmed when other passengers get it free – via elite status, via luck of the draw or otherwise.
Sitting in an open seat that can never be sold (because the plane is already in the air) is not the same thing as taking a physical car off of a lot where it is waiting to be sold. In the former case United loses nothing, in the latter case the loss is real.
It seems strange to compare United slimline economy seats to a Lexus, although I once a flight attendant compare Economy Plus to a Mercedes.
The better argument is: we do not allow passengers to move to better seats without paying extra (except under our own terms, for our operational.convenience or elite perks) because that would encourage passengers to take a chance rather than paying on future trips. The actual reason: It’s not allowed because we don’t allow it, not because of some broader moral imperative.
Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.
To those in higher classes who feel an empty seat next to you should stay empty – yes, I feel your pain if someone then sits next to you – but how can you say you deserve that space FOR FREE while also saying that other passenger does NOT? You paid for YOUR seat, not the empty space next to you.
Anyway the real problem is the airlines trying to extract every penny from every customer no matter the level of pain they inflict.
There’s just not enough competition any more.
As a consultant, I do about 20 flights per year throughout the country. I purchase tickets from basic economy to business. I have noticed the airlines getting more and more greedy over the past few years. Especially Delta which I fly when I have no other choice. But this united story really takes the prize. I will make it a priority to avoid flying United. There are other choices.
If the seats are charged extra, then there potentially a difference in people getting to move into that seat. Unless the entire row is empty, by moving into a seat, you deprive a person who paid extra elbow room. One of the benefits of paying is potentially getting empty seats next to you to spread out.
Thanks, ‘Karen’. The world is a better place bc of flight attendants like you, I’m sure. UA, find something important to worry about and fix. This seems extremely petty.
@Lynda Leibrock. On a Qantas narrowbody (almost always a 738), they have First (2-2) and Coach (3-3). The pitch is the same in all coach rows, except for exits. On an upcoming flight (E190), I could pay A$12 (US$8) for a seat closer to the front or $45 ($30) for the exit row. If the exit rows are full (likely), nobody got extra legroom on your flight (and, of course, “any seat” did not include first). It’s a bit apples/oranges.
The flight attendant was a little extreme with the tray blocking, but I’m still pretty much in the “stay in the seat you paid for” camp, in pretty much all situations. It just creates less potential for chaos or conflict, if everyone just flies in the seat they were assigned to.
This is why I started flying Southwest.
The “Karen” flight attendant must be a really nice person to be around (not). Someone who is so petty obviously has too much time on their hands.
> and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.
In some cases people may pay for a seat in a paid section not just for a better seat, but for the increased odds that the seat next to them (likely middle) will not be occupied because no one wants to pay for a middle seat. So, yes, they got the seat they paid for but they may also be making the purchase as a gamble that they have an increased likelihood of an empty seat next to them.
Why anyone still flies United is beyond me.
Sorry. No switching seats. AND… There are serious safety issues blocking seats eith tray tsbles. Not an approved SOP. FAA will look into this. Thanks for the obsevation.
I hear you that yes I am paying for the seat and not the extra seat next to me. Being a guy with very wide shoulders wearing a 48 jacket, I really love an open middle. My message to the airline. If I see an open middle and I can get the aisle or window next to it, then yes I buy it. BUT ONLY IF THOSE SEATS ARE NOT GIVEN UP FOR FREE MID- FLIGHT.
If I know come cheapo is going to sit next to me mid flight then I save the dollars. The open middle seat 10x better then leg room and I am over 6 feet.
1 time on a flight cannot remember if it was Delta or United. I was in a in assigned window seat but nobody else was in the aisle so the middle and aisle seat were while the whole plane was basically filled up. It was the weirdest thing. Jo, I laid down and people asked later. How did I do that? But I didn’t do anything. It just wasn’t odd occurrence. I didn’t think about it other than how nice I get to lie down. Ts, I totally agree that that was an incredibly Petty thing for the flight attendant to do, and I don’t begrudge anybody who’s able to move to a seat they prefer. And it is ideal that we keep our assigned seats in case something God forbid should happen. At least they could identify the body properly
Until you take the job of the Flight Attendant, or start assuming…stop and think…. I did not read abiut anyone stopping to ask her what was the reasoning for blocking the seats? If you don’t know her reasons, then kindly ask… I’m sure if your seats were comparable in value, she would have allowed it. After all YOU pay for what you get! Stop blaming everyone for you budget.
Good reason not to fly United! A good flying experience results in repeat business!
Everybody feels entitled to stuff they didn’t pay for. You bought a coach ticket, you get a coach seat. What is so difficult to understand about that?
There’s never a guarantee of an open seat. There are people who do not get their seats until they check in at the airport. That’s when those “extra charge” seats can get filled, by anyone. The airlines are not going to turn away someone who has purchased a ticket on that flight and so will assign them a seat.
It’s too bad the world has come to such pettiness that so few have any generosity for others or care about another person’s comfort or circumstances.
This coupled with all the Boeing news right now is scaring everyone! I recently flew on a Boeing 787 from Europe back to my home in the US and I felt like I dodged a bullet after reading all the negative news about the long history of neglect for passenger safety.
Airlines take heed …because you can’t really afford any more black eyes with the public you serve! We’re listening and we’re watching. This all boils down to nothing but greed. Not attractive at all!. Counsel your employees to show a little gratitude to the folks that give them a job!
Did it ever occur to any of these people that there are folks out there who can’t afford to pay top dollar for a plane seat? So what’s the big deal if they get on the plane and get a little bonus to be able to stretch out? Try a little compassion for once in your life people! A little bit goes a long way!
Here’s a conundrum. If there are say 4 “better” empty seats up for grabs, who gets them? The person who moves there first? The single parent flying with a lap toddler? The tall person who can hip check anyone else out of the way first? The bully passenger? The flight attendants are responsible for safety first; no one needs a fight or argument in the aisles or someone pushing others out of the way to get there first.
To be fair, you would have to offer up the open seat to everyone and have a defined priority for moving.
However, you also need to make sure that the seat wasn’t “purchased” by another passenger. Some passengers purchase (yes, pay for) additional seats for service dogs or because they are “plus sized” (apologies, not sure how to impart this idea correctly) and want to make sure they are comfortable. During the flight, a passenger purchasing 2 seats can lift up the arm rest between them for comfort. Given how narrow seats are becoming, I have several acquaintances who do this even though they can (uncomfortably) squeeze into one seat. So, that “free” seat may actually belong to someone else and you do not have the right to it.
Just be a grown up and stay in the seat you purchased or were assigned unless moved by airline staff.
In the “old days” people were civil. In the current environment By letting some people self-assign a perk in the current environment the airline risks other passengers acting out. Even if it happened once in an unregulated seat environment they’d implement this same policy again. As one commenter said below he’ll pay extra for a seat if the seat next to him is empty so he has extra room. If someone moved into it after the flight was in the air he’d probably object – out loud.
First of all the flight attendant wasn’t being a “Karen”. Company policy is very clear as is the seat you pay for. So how would you feel if you paid the extra $180 and someone from basic economy plopped down next you and didn’t pay a dime? Then Mr, eco plus writes to United saying “Karen” let Mr. cheap seats have a seat in eco plus. KAREN then gets called in and disciplined. Nobody looks at the other side of the coin.
Do you buy nosebleed seats at a concert and expect to sit in seat on the floor????
Think it through before you write this kind of crap,
“Comparing changing to an open seat nobody else is using can’t be stealing, because the airline hasn’t given up anything, and claiming it harms other passengers isn’t right either because other passengers still got exactly what they paid for.”.
And by this logic I should be able to jump on a plane for $1 or even free if there are empty seats when the door is about to close.
I think it’s petty.
I thought perhaps a blog like this which is read by many frequent fliers would have more positive comments about the way the crew handled it. Those passengers, who paid for those seats and via the seatmap on the app know which ones are occupied and not, get very upset when people move there for free. Should this flight attendant had just left them open with no tray and throughout the entire flight constantly have to ask people to move back? Of course not. Trays can be open unless during the specific times of take off, etc. People often move during red-eyes and fall asleep. Better to wake them and have them move back or avoid them sitting there in the first place? Using common sense is key in these situations. Kudos to the FA, I’m sure she was very polite in the interaction. People who disagree with the policy get upset at the crew who is simply following their company’s policy.
As a flight attendant I don’t appreciate you making our jobs even harder by writing stuff like this. We are required to make people pay for the upgrade and if it gets reported to the airline that we didn’t we could be disciplined or lose our job. Are you going to pay my bills if that happens? Not only is it unfair to the people that actually paid for those seats, it is unfair to the rest of the economy passengers who didn’t help themselves to a free upgrade. I’m no Karen by any means but the entitlement is strong with this one.
Sorry back to your assigned cattle seat with the little people sir
pay up or shut $$$ up
Thank for flying untied airlines
It’s wrong and unethical to self upgrade.
Yes, the people who paid for or were upgraded to premium seats did have something taken away from them, the right to not sit next to a thief.
The car analogy isn’t accurate. The baseball game or concert seating analogy is accurate. If you buy a cheap ticket for a game or concert you aren’t getting the save benefits as the people who paid for the better seats. Just because it see the front row open or the seats behind home plate, doesn’t mean you can move to those seats. You aren’t changing how others get to enjoy what the l they purchased by sitting there. You are getting a better product than what you purchased.
When it bought the discounted seat, you knew it wasn’t the best seat. You agreed to those terms when it made that purchase. If you want an upgrade, you are within your rights to PAY THE EXTRA PRICE.
Flight attendants aren’t “choosing” to charge you more to sit in premium seats. It’s their job.
Please consider editing your article to reflect the truth.
What if other coach rows or preferred non middle seats are open. Can I switch in that case. I buy my seats well in advance, but if plus or business are not available I will sit in coach and pray middle is not my only chance.
Flight Attendants are on the plane for your safety & comfort. The crazy notion that anyone should be allowed to self-upgrade to a better seat because it would be a “bonus” is beyond entitled. Pay your $180 if it is that important to you, especially on a long-haul. It is the worst type of entitlement to presume that company policies should be “flexible” to the whims of those most willing to abuse them. To the idiot who thinks that having tray tables down during a flight should trigger an FAA investigation; get your facts about FAA guidelines straight before you imply an insidious threat. We want safety, decency, and a company to provide a product actually paid for by the passenger. Name-calling (i.e. Karen) for employees who are doing their jobs & following policy in a challenging environment is either ignorant and/or childish. People who always want to game the system & get something that they didn’t pay for & create problems for others hurt everyone. Fly Air France and see how far you get. It is not just a policy enforced by United Airlines. It is consistent with almost all carriers.
I remember one time when I flew with Norwegian airways from Orlando to Oslo, first half of the economy class was empty, the other half was almost full. When the plane was in the air, we started spreading, I let my daughter stay on 3 seats and I found myself another 3 seats, everybody on that plane was happy. I remember that flight because was the only time when I saw an empty plane like that and everyone was happy. That was before the pandemic when people didn’t complain to much and the airline companies were not so greedy. I am from Romania and living in US, United and Delta are very expensive to go home. Many times I flew with Norwegian, they were low cost company and got bankrupt, for me was a great company, I am not rich, I can’t afford expensive companies to go home to see my parents and my beautiful Romanian mountains. With Turkish Airline and Lufthansa I got cheaper tickets. Last year was the low cost German company, Condor, from N.Y to Frankfurt, with Jet Blue from Orlando to N.Y, and Lufthansa or Tarom, I don’t remember which, from Frankfurt to Bucharest, same companies when I got back.
Another reason I never fly united . If the seat.s were empty tho and in the same class cabin and the passengers can safely move to empty seats with no trouble to anyone and make their trip more enjoyable and also the people that they were moving aaay from where they ères then it’s stupid for united or any airline to not let a passenger be comfortable on the flights. They will be more inclined to fly WTH that airline again if they can mine after plane door closes and it don’t bother anyone I. Addition for the flight attendants they will likely have better and more friendly snd comfortable passengers if allied. To move to line where there a wh empty. Row . I bevieve I have not seen any delta flight attend stop someone from moving to a same class cabin seat to be more comfortable and also whoever they had given more room to by moving so now u have 2 happy passengers which is a better thing then 2 or limite cramped passengers as the hard making the seats closer and so we have less room around. Us and our space.
And sayin that it loses money for the airline is dumb cuz the person who moved wouldn’t have pay d for the seat anyway. Or they would have been there to begin with. Its the airlines fault that they cramso
Many in so small a place so they shoikd have no prinlem letting us ve a bit more comfortable ifuts not movin to a higher priced seat to begin with . And that att blickinv exut and access puttingdown all these trat tables shouldbe repremanded as tjsts a safety hazard thst slows possibke exit routes from the plane in case of emergency and that neefs ti be reported to faa ..no doubt about that.
This story lends new meaning to he term “You can’t fix stupid”. Easy to sit in a conference room and make up idiotic rules like this … without regard to enforcement. The situation isn’t the pax’ fault, not the FA’s fault. If ‘management’ wants to dream up rules like this, they should board each plane just before the door closes and explain their procedures to all the pax.
So if you see the last row blocked on an otherwise full flight, there’s a reason for that. Many times there are not enough jumpseats in the back for flight attendants to take in case of unexpected turbulence (same for passengers who exit the lav during turbulence), those empty seats are needed to quickly and safely buckle up. Also, they block the row in case there is a medical emergency during flight, the passenger can be brought to the empty row and there is room for flight attendants and medical professionals to work on them. ALSO, sometimes, it just simply boils down to weights and balance. There are reasons, people. Please don’t be so quick to think the worst. Safe travels everyone! <3
There is a seat map on the app. That’s the easiest way to see what is occupied/ sold. You also have opportunity to upgrade your seat using the same tool. You can ask the gate agent if it’s possible to change seats.
FA’s also know who is in which seat, in case of emergency.
If I want a different or better seat, I pay for it. Quit whining about what you don’t get for free.
I could not agree with more with Heather’s comment. Grow up and sit in the seat you. ***chose***. I take the time to go to find out what type of plane I’ll be on, I go to Seat Guru and I research. I then pay for a particular seat. I am tired of entitled freeloaders like families who impose on others and ask for favors to allow their family to sit together. Why should your lack of planning be rewarded? Why should your unwillingness to pay for particular seats in order to sit together be rewarded? Act like a responsible adult and plan. Stop trying to guilt strangers. As for those here commenting about corporate greed and pettiness, really? You do know that this is a free market economy? Businesses don’t survive on giving away freebies and giving you something for free that others are willing to pay for. Don’t try to mask cheapness and entitlement betting on the fact kind strangers will accommodate you, imposing upon others just because you can, with the noble idea of showing kindness to the needy. It is simply someone willing to inconvenience a kind stranger because they couldn’t be bothered to plan properly or they were too cheap to pay for seats they desired. It’s actually quite reprehensible.
Isn’t it important to note: one flight, one FA who may have had a rough overnight in Honolulu, a breakup with friend in California, generally mad at United … nobody has claimed this is a Policy of United, have they?
And stop whining about corporate management. You really expect to get something for nothing? Stop throwing around “Karen” when you are actually the entitled one, expecting freebies. And stop criticizing the FA. She did what she was instructed to do, keep freeloaders out of seats that the airline charges for. As for the childish criticism of United, do you think American allows you to switch to MCE seats? Nope! Of course not. Do you think corporate cares about keeping flyers happy who are so cheap they won’t pay for a MCE seat at booking? No, I am going to lay it out for you, remember how in the past you could get full service from banks? And how now it is all atms.? It is because you weren’t contributing anything to the bank’s profitability. You were actually costing the bank money unless you had a mortgage, cds, etc.with the bank. Do you think your measly $300 fare is a moneymaker for the airline? No! It’s the people who are paying for biz class that are subsidizing you.
While I agree airlines are starting to sacrifice passenger comfort for profit, I don’t see that there is an argument for moving to a premium seat that you didn’t pay for just because the plane is in the air. You’re paying for the extra legroom yes, but also for the service. Arguing that it is empty and can’t be sold would be the same argument for someone wanting to move to first class because a seat is empty. It clearly isn’t fair to someone who paid for that experience. Saying that they still get what they paid for doesn’t make it any less unfair. The airlines does have rewards and do sell discount seats that everyone has access to earn or pay for. That’s the difference.
Make seats comfortable for an average sized American? They’d be HUGE!!! Your flight would increase in price by 10x!
and yet another reason why I hate US carriers and will always fly an international carrier when possible.
@Robert S “While I agree airlines are starting to sacrifice passenger comfort for profit…” I suggest that airlines are sacrificing comfort to give passengers the prices they (passengers) want. Have one of the US3 modify their 737/320 to, say, a 34″ pitch for all coach and adjust the price of regular coach upward. I contend there is no new price that will make it work. Passengers will flock to the other 2 for 30″ coach to save $. Set a price low enough to prevent that, and you can’t make up for the lost seats.
@Deb
So self center!!!
Its all about you!!
What happens when every seat is taken. Then what?
I think you should fly on a private jet so you can avoid all your fears.
There are plenty of good reasons.not to fly United, but this is not one of them. The.FA was doing her job. Courtesy has never been their strongest suit. I find European airlines to provide more courteous service at the same price. Even Tarom, the Romanian airline, provided sandwiches and sodas on a relatively short flight from Belgrade. To Bucharest. British Airways has a rule that they provide sandwiches if a flight is delayed by more than two hours.
I would go further than just put a barrier. Try to monetized it.
Put a price tag on the barrier. If people want to upgrade they can do it in the spot like buying a snack during the flight.
There’s a much simpler reason not to allow self upgrading.
As a practical matter, on most flights there are a lot more people looking to self upgrade than there are open seats.
So, how do you decide who gets to?
If you leave it to law of the jungle, guess what- fights break out.
And I certainly don’t blame the airlines for not wanting to deal with that.
I personally strongly object to airlines charging extra for seats. Isn’t a seat supposed to be included with your ticket. They charge for everything they can get away with. Price your tickets appropriately and quit surcharging for seats, luggage, wifi, non alcoholic drinks (yes some airlines charge for soda and bottled water.).
And then they oversell the airplane and have to look for people to get off. Its just BAD
Honestly, it never would have crossed m mine to try to move into an upgraded seat just because it was open, especially since there are sometimes extra services you get with those upgraded seats. That doesn’t seem right to me either, from the POV of a coach passenger, to expect upgrades I didn’t pay for, but that someone else did. No, they may technically lose nothing, but it’s the principle of the matter—we aren’t inherently entitled to those upgrades just because there’s an open seat. The cost of those upgrades is passed to the passengers who do pay for the upgrades.
And it’s kinda crass to say that people who pay for upgrades aren’t entitled to the extra space of seats they didn’t pay for while trying to argue that people who didn’t pay for those upgrades are entitled to them.
I’ve flown United many times and though I do not agree with the petty tray table thing, I do believe prople should stay in their paid for seat class, and only move within that seat class.
One of the thongs noone mentions is that planes are loaded rear heavy because they fly better that way. And the pilot has to check weights and balances before the plane leaves. Moving after takeoff to a different class seat, not only is “cheating”, it also nesses with the efficiency and safety of the aircraft. So, yes it does hace negative results when people trt to take what they don’t pay for
@Jerry King:
“ And sayin that it loses money for the airline is dumb cuz the person who moved wouldn’t have pay d for the seat anyway.”
That’s the mindset that leads people to stealing stuff and claiming no one’s losing anything. So basically if you want something, all you have to do to be entitled to it for free is to decide you won’t pay for it? So may as well give it to you since no money is being lost on what you won’t pay for? Grow up and pay for what you want. Taking it just because it’s there and you want it is theft.