A United Airlines passenger had a flight attendant kicked them out of their seat because another passenger had taken it, and the crewmember felt that woman deserved it more than they did.
When they arrived at their seat, in the second row from the back of the aircraft, they found a woman and two kids seated in the row. They offered, “I have the window seat, does your ticket say you also have my seat?”
The mother replied she ‘didn’t know’ and the crewmember responded, “oh, they were a family that boarded during family preboard” and she took the seat so that she could sit with her pre-teens.
- Airlines try to accommodate families sitting together
- These weren’t small children
- And generally you ask the person whom you’d like to switch if they’re willing to do so
There were other ways to accommodate this family, too. The father was traveling, too, without either child. They could have asked whomever was seated by him to switch with one of the kids. And with four boarding passes between them, they had four seats to offer in trade as part of switching. Instead, the flight attendant just ordered the man to a different seat than the one he’d been assigned to.
- The strangest thing about this story I think is that pre-teens aren’t small children, why are they pre-boarding?
- Pre-boarding isn’t supposed to be to allow you your choice of seats, except on Southwest.
According to the airline’s family seating and boarding policy,
We allow families with children less than two years old to board with our pre-boarding group. A gate agent will announce when it’s time for you to get on the plane.
Families with children under 12 can book Economy and Basic Economy seats next to each other for free. Sometimes, seat assignments change because of last minute bookings or unscheduled aircraft changes. If this happens on your flight and your family is separated, you can switch to another flight with availability in the same cabin for free. We won’t charge you for any fare differences.
If a flight attendant ever tells you that you cannot sit in your assigned seat, because they are giving it to someone else,
- Ask to speak to the purser or lead flight attendant. On many foreign airlines they have additional authority. Otherwise, if you’re still at the gate ask for an agent or supervisor to come on board. Be polite. Smile. Do not give them any excuse to remove you from the aircraft. Ask for the captain, but realize that doing so may annoy the captain and he can have you removed.
- Consider recording the interaction. This can come across as confrontational, so you may want to just get audio rather than sticking your phone up to the crewmember.
You have to follow crewmember instructions in certain safety-related situations. However even if you’re not obliged to in a given situation, your failure to do so could be interpreted by the captain as being a risk to the aircraft and the captain’s decision to remove you from the plane isn’t unreviewable exactly… but it’s close. There’s tremendous deference in regulations to the captain’s judgment given whatever limited information they may have.
Now, U.S. airlines have made moves to try to seat families together for free. It is not always possible. You should ask for help from reservations to get this. You should choose flights where it’s possible. But if you don’t, and they can’t help in advance.. Ask at the gate. And ask on board.
- You should book seats together if it is at all possible, even if it’s more costly to do so.
- You shouldn’t impose a cost on other passengers to save yourself money, though sometimes you can get away with it.
- As a passenger, don’t be guilted into switching for someone else. You have a (usufructuary) right in your seat. If someone wants it, they can buy you out of it.
- Of course you can be kind and generous if you wish. That is voluntary, a mitzvah, just do your due diligence about what you’d be getting before you agree.
I frequently write about being nice to the airline and hotel staff you come into contact with, not just because they’re people and may well be having a bad day, but because it’s in your own interest to. They’ll go much farther to help you, rather thank just trying to move you along, if you connect with them as people. The same goes for dealing with other passengers!
If you want someone to switch for you,
- be nice
- have a compelling story
- be prepared to offer them something in exchange if necessary, maybe offer to buy them a drink or /////even give them $20
And make sure your ask is reasonable! Get as good a seat as you can to offer up in trade and don’t expect someone to give up their extra legroom aisle seat for your middle in the back of the plane.
Seat switching in general should be discouraged, except if it’s internally among members of the same traveling party. A child who is old ennough to FLY unaccompanied is certainly old enough to be in a separate row from a parent. The FA acted inappropriately.
Please don’t ask the Flight Attendants to call the Captain for a seat issue. As Gary mentioned, this could result in you being removed. Not because the Captain is annoyed, but because they have a lot to do and have time constraints. In many cases, the fastest way for the Captain to resolve the issue is to have someone removed. And at most US airlines, when the Captain has someone removed if it is reviewed, it’s at a much later date.
I would also bet that the FA acted outside of UA’s own policies esp. as long as the plane is at the gate. The gate agents at nearly all airlines are responsible for passenger seating as long as the jetway is attached. It is entirely possible that this situation was known to the gate agent even before boarding started.
Jesus Gary . Is it a slow news day ?
As a17Parent, though they are all adults now, I feel it is extremely important when traveling with children under 17 years of age, that they should be seated with a parent.
Far too much craziness going on out there these days to have a child seated with strangers for long periods of time on an aircraft.
Even another reason to not fly United Airlines. I have had my seat cloned on another person’s boarding pass several times and the only reason I got to keep my seat was that I had possession of it by boarding early in my group. Having someone else take my seat before I got there has happened a number of times but in all of those cases their boarding pass was for a different seat and they were required to move. Maybe united should change to Southwest Airlines style of not assigning seats. It would get rid of these types of conflicts.
Its is a serious issue because fights start over seats in the US. The FA shirked her responsibility. Unless a child is below 10 years, any teenagers don’t have to sit with the parent. Its only for a few hours anyway.
As a parent of four children, taking many flights over the years, I never had an issue getting seated together. I picked flights where seats were available to sit together. Even during IRROPS, if we couldn’t sit together I asked for other options. It is my responsibility as a parent to ensure we sit together if that’s what ai want – not some stranger that did a better job of selecting a seat than I did. If a flight didn’t have seats together, then we didn’t take that flight. That may have led to long layovers, or not the least expensive flight, but my job, ensuring seats together, was always accomplished by me. Those that ask for special consideration when not seated next to their children have made their responsibility someone else’s problem.
Let’s be honest, here, the real problem is that FAs tend to have unchecked power to do whatever they want on flights. Move someone to a new seat? No big deal. Ignore you when they are supposed to serve you? No big deal.
Don’t like it, they’ll get the captain, who will always take the FAs side and then throw you off the flight and/or get you arrested.
Gary: Is that all you know? You fix everything with money!”, “give them $20”. It perpetuates the “ugly American” image, everything is fixed with money!
Never fly with that airline again.
I checked one carrier’s COC and found this: “XXXX strives to seat family members together upon request. If you are unable to obtain seat assignments together for your family using *******.com or the ***** mobile app, please contact reservations to review available seating options.” NOTE the caveat, “…review available seating options” The COC continues: “Guarantees adjacent seats for child 13 or under and an accompanying adult at no additional cost for all fare types subject to limited conditions.” NOTE: “child 13 or under” not an older teen or young adult! And “limited conditions.” So it’s not a blanket…WILL or MUST. The airline also has the right to assign or reassign the seat without notice. This carrier only guarantees carriage from point A to B. In the case of the airline in the article, maybe their COC doesn’t delineate the age of a “child”. If the flight attendant forced the ticketed passenger to relinquish his/her seat contrary to that airline’s COC, then I would think that the forced move was incorrect AND the passenger is entitled to a monetary compensation AND the DOT should issue a reprimand to the airline and the airline to the flight attendant.
The question no one has asked, is if the changed seat was also a window seat, and if this person had paid for that seat. If I had paid for a window seat, and ended up in a middle seat, I’d be upset. If it was just different window seat, not enough to make a fuss over.
@Gary: This is a pretty lazy story (the reddit comments strongly indicate the PAX was accommodated in the other window seat in the same row, so NO HARM NO FOUL), and beyond that, your general advice is horrible.
First, your obligation to follow crewmember instructions is *NOT* limited to safety situations. The airline owns the plane. You are obligated to follow the instructions of anyone working for the airline because you are on their property and they do not have to allow you to be there and can remove you for any* reason and are only liable (based on the CoC) for refunding you the cost of your ticket. Sure, the feds may not come after you for federal crew interference charges because you refused to switch seats when the FA told you to, but you can bet the state will charge you if the police are called to ask you to leave the aircraft and you don’t comply. And the airline does not need ANY reason to ask you to leave: It’s their property and the police will remove you and l let you settle it in court later if you want to EVERY SINGLE TIME.**
Second, I know you love to use the word ‘usufructuary’, but I don’t think you know what it means or how it applies to these situations. In this particular situation, the passenger has *ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT* to the seat the airline has assigned them. The airline assigns seats, and the airline can reassign seats a their whim, including any employee who works for the airline, period, end of. If the FA tells you to move, you should move, even if it’s against policy, even if you paid for it. (I agree it might be worth asking to escalate to the purser, or instead of taking the seat leaving the plane to see what the GA can do for you.) But ultimately they’re an agent of the company that owns the plane and the passenger is not.
By default, we assume we have priority to the seats we are assigned because the FA/GA will almost always make anyone else who is in our assigned seat move, and with that assumption, we might be able to negotiate something from another passenger who would like our seat for whatever reason. But if the FA/GA is asking you to move, you have no leverage – it’s their plane and you sit where they want you to and your alternative is to not fly (and attempt to receive whatever compensation is appropriate later – put refusing to fly because you didn’t get your assigned seat will NOT entitle you to an airfare refund).
To this situation in particular, I read the reddit comments and the OP’s replies strongly indicate they were placed in the other window seat on the opposite side of the plane IN THE SAME ROW and were just annoyed because they are apparently on the spectrum. (And shame on you btw for completely neglecting to mention in your article where the passenger was reseated or that you didn’t know where they were reseated, but suppose that would have undermined the entire thing.)
Assuming the passenger was merely moved to the window seat across the aisle, this is actually good, proactive customer service by the FA helping a family sit together. There’s no way the FA could have known the passenger in 38F would care about sitting in 38A instead.
More generally, if he ended up in a middle seat, the passenger has a legitimate gripe (less so if an aisle seat). Were it me and I was facing a middle, I would press the flight crew on whether any other window seat was available, including in E+. If that didn’t work, depending on the situation (not going to bother if the seat map is already full-up) I might go out and talk to the GA, and if that didn’t work, the options are go on the next flight or suck it up and try and leverage some miles later.
The passenger may ultimately feel like they’ve been treated poorly and they can choose to fly different airlines going forward, but that is the limit to their recourse.
* Except for certain legally protected reasons like race/sex/religion/national origin/etc
** Although post-DAO they might instead ask everyone else to leave the plane, cancel the flight and sue you later for the disruption.
@Razor: Yes, never fly with an airline again because the FA moved you from 38F to 38A.
1. It is bad advice to do audio only recording unless one knows the laws of the jurisdiction. Some states require consent to be part of an audio recording and this could bring about legal issues in some jurisdictions.
2. I have before, on Delta, scanned my boarding pass to have a new boarding pass printed with a new seat. I was not given an option not to move, etc. This type of thing can happen on any airline with assigned seating, where one loses one’s seat at the last minute, not just United.
I personally prefer Southwest where I can choose the seat when boarding and can move if there are other passengers seated right by me who I do not want to sit by (often they are either loud or coughing) in most circumstances.
So how did it end? How much of compensation did you get? Where did you end up sitting? Way to NOT finish the story!
@Guflyer – there’s no expectation of privacy in the middle of an aircraft cabin, two party consent rules wouldn’t apply
Gary, I suggest running your writing through a grammar check before publish. It’s filled with awkward and incorrect grammar (see very 1st sentence in the article) throughout, which makes it difficult and distracting to read. Unnecessary commas and multiple incomplete sentences. Good luck in the future.
Fixing things with money is only an American thing? Wait till.you hear about EU 261.
Anyway, I find if I raise reasonable compensation with Agent requests to make discomfiting changes on boarding or onboard with a smile and politeness, I usually get it. They just want a quick resolution. And yes, it does make me feel better.
@Tim Dunn:
You are probably right. I’ve had this happen on United before in recent memory where someone pre-boarding was put in my seat because their animal carrier would not fit under the seat they’d been assigned (and they were an upgrade from the upgrade list per the app/seat assignment, and I paid for the class of service I wanted to sit in). Purser and other F/A at the front said the gate agent was fully aware (which I had heard discussion involving my seat row as I scanned my boarding pass) and supposedly was going to page me and deal with it, but apparently shirked that responsibility. I ended up with a seat several rows back and a window vs an aisle on a 4 hour flight, but I’ve no reason to not believe the crew as they were very apologetic, thanked me repeatedly for going along with it, offered me first choice of meal (and served me first out of 20 seats in the cabin), and gave me whatever bonus miles they could on their device.
As a station manager, I’ve reminded crews (both pilots and flight attendants) that I own that airplane (or my designated agents) until the door is shut as I’d like to see them go anywhere without my team’s assistance. Often people come on the airplane and try and either lie to or guilt the crew into helping with some situation or something they want that previously was worked out or shot down by the gate agent. Like taking this situation… maybe my agent organized two seat pairs, so one child with each parent, and it involved swapping the parent or child to a middle seat from a window in another row. Then they go on the airplane, claim we split them all up, and gets the crew to intervene. Not to be spiteful (well, maybe so), but I’ve gone on a plane and undone what the crew did because we’d already resolved it, someone was trying to get something for free or deprive another of what they paid for, and they can deal with it once the door is closed if they want (which they won’t because once the door is shut on time, any delay goes on them).
United Airlines Flight Attendant Steals Passengers Seat. OH MY!! Wonder if it’ll end up on eBay?!?!
Just move! It’s no big deal and you are helping a family out. The airline has the right to make a call. Besides, you are not 100% guaranteed the seat you booked anyway. It’s in the contract of carriage.
I got booted from row 1 window to row 5 aisle on a Delta regional. No explanation. After I was seated a guy got on with all his diamond tags hanging off his carryon and sat in that seat. After takeoff I was talking to the FA who didn’t seem to like what happened. I joked I would take compensation in Biscoff cookies. She smiled and brought me a bag that had two dozen packs in it. I knew better than to engage anyone about it before takeoff since I had a connecting international flight. But I had plenty of cookies to eat on my trip.
Wow this is really horrible. You have a reserved seat on your boarding pass, find someone in your reserved seat, and the FA refuses to do their job and worse actually created the problem. I would probably have turned around, walked to the front (no easy task) and spoke with the purser and then maybe exited.
The only solace here is this is unlikely to ever happen to me as I tend to fly in E+ or premium seats and never in the last few rows that are reserved for families. The worst I have received in the past 2 decades is an E+ middle seat.
Of course with UAs silly basic economy seating you may find family members spread in middle seats throughout the E+ section because that’s all that was left when they were auto-assigned at checkin, but that’s another problem for another Gary story.
In the real world – “Don’t ever fly with that airline again!” isn’t a realistic option. Certain airlines have a near monopoly on travel out of certain cities, and you are pretty much at their mercy. This should have never happened.
For the record: I have a family of six. It’s my responsibility to ensure that all of us sit together or near each other.
DO NOT ask for the Captain. What absolutely awful advice.
Good so we all agree , Americans need to be sterilized , so NO MORE KIDS and we wont have this problem. This is so laughable I peed a little.
I’m still amused that Gary managed to turn an FA doing their job well into some sort of catastrophe/wrong, and most of the comments are just blindly going along with it. At least some are picking up on how bad the advice is.
I have family with several children under 10 and in some cases with only the mother or the father flying with the children. When any of my kids fly with theirs as family (with only one or with both parents), I ask my kids (the parents) (1) to contact the airline to request seating for the family together as they need it, or (2) (if the airline does not have a policy of complimentary seating together for families) to pay for the seats to sit together as needed, or (3) (if the airline does not have a policy of complimentary seating together for families AND my kids cannot afford to pay the seat costs for their kids) to ask me for help so that I can pay for the seating for them all. If the airline makes provision, kudos to them; if my kids can, I congratulate them and reward them in other ways; if they cannot I am happy to sacrifice a modest amount for the sake of civilized air travel. But I have no sympathy for families who inconvenience other travelers by asking others to make room for them because somehow, you know, they deserve it. (The situation is, of course, quite different in the case of last minute changes of aircraft or emergencies.)