Even though United Airlines flight attendants haven’t gotten a raise in five years, they overwhelmingly voted down a new contract. United’s cabin crew want more than just an inflation adjustment to their wages and the addition of boarding pay, matching American and non-union Delta.
The flight attendants union had promised them ‘ground pay’ – that they’d earn wages for their airport time, not just for time spent boarding the aircraft – but they did not deliver.
There’s rarely been much solidarity between pilots and other airline work groups. And one pilot summed up a dismissive view of flight attendant negotiations in a since-deleted comment on a Facebook post that has flight attendants crying foul and even starting a petition to have United discipline him.
In his words, “Love it, now they will get nothing.”
They all want pilot pay!!! Kirby should go to a local university where they are all a dime a dozen!!!
Screenshots of the comment quickly circulated amongst flight attendants.
This statement is explicitly derogatory toward Flight Attendants, reducing their value and professionalism to being “a dime a dozen,” while mocking their advocacy for fair compensation. The tone and language are not only dismissive and degrading, but they also foster a hostile work environment and contribute to a culture of division and disrespect within the flight crew community.
Such behavior is in direct violation of our company’s Flying Together guidelines, which require all employees to treat one another with dignity, act with professionalism in public and online, and refrain from harassment, bullying, or disparaging remarks—especially in public forums that reflect on our brand and culture.
…I respectfully urge that this matter be formally investigated and addressed in accordance with our disciplinary procedures. This is an opportunity to reaffirm that our company does not tolerate bullying or public separation of any group of employees.
A senior captain at United can make close to half a million dollars a year at the top end. Pilots have a lot more leverage over the airline because:
- The time and resources spent to become a pilot are so much greater than the six and a half weeks it takes at United (as little as 3 at some world airlines).
- Some of this is unnecessary and counterproductive clear air touch and go flying in and out of the same airports that pilots have fought for specifically to drive up the cost and time to become a pilot, rather than for safety. But that’s the point – it keeps people out of the profession, makes pilots tougher to replace, and causes them to earn more.
- Flight attendants, too, are protected by government regulation. Their jobs are supported by minimum crew requirements (1 per 50 seats) – some airlines would almost certainly fly with fewer flight attendants if they were permitted to do so.
Pilots also are far more capable of ‘bringing down an airline’ by working to rule, rejecting aircraft, and insisting on unnecessary maintenance (plus taxiing slowing and burning excess fuel, creating delays and higher costs).
But it’s also precisely because pilots are so important to an airline that this one will likely be just fine – while a similarly-situated flight attendant might not be. Remember that United wouldn’t even take action against a pilot who celebrated the 10/7 massacre on Facebook.
Still, I wouldn’t order a coffee on my next flight if I were this pilot – or ask for a flight attendant’s help blocking off the lavatory.
Flight attendants will go back to the bargaining table. The union believes they’ve already gotten all the economic value possible from United, but they’ll need to sell a new contract. So they’ll shift some things around in ways their surveys tell them they can frame as a victory, but in the end the airline isn’t likely to pay materially more.
The name of this CA and his post has already been screenshot and posted on social media.
Us FA’s are gonna blast him till no end and it’s not just United FA’s either.
Despicable!
United pilots walking around like Top Gun extras with divorce papers in their flight bags, trash-talking the same crew who wipes up puke, breaks up fistfights, and saves lives midair. Newsflash, Maverick… without them, you’re just a glorified Uber driver in Ray-Bans, jerking off to your own PA announcements.
This is exactly why United and other companies have a social media policy. As a retired pilot, I hope flight attendants know that this is not the norm for how pilots view flight attendants. Hopefully United and the AFA can get the unacceptable items resolved quickly and UA FA’s can get a well deserved CBA.
I believe pilots deserve a really good income, but honestly, $1/2 Million a year? Um, that’s excessive in my mind.
I know I’m retired for 13 years, and that salaries everywhere have skyrocketed since then, but only 8/10 of 1% of American workers earn $500,000 plus. I mean, when the median salary for medical doctors is $220,000-$250,000, I think pilot pay is disproportionately inflated.
PS, Pilot “X”, if the flight attendants go on strike, you’re going to be out of work for a while yourself.
Ouch… not a good look to publicly disparage your coworkers!
(assuming the FB account wasn’t a fake profile)
The economics of each job are out there in the open for anybody to analyze, labor pool supply and demand, job qualifications, how easy it is for the company to replace each kind of employee… no big secret to it. The FA employee group has the same rights as everyboy to collective bargaining. With this vote they’ve given their bargaining agent a renewed mandate… that’s how the system works. I hope for the employees’ sake they now negotiate a better deal (“better” = whatever they vote on that they believe is better).
Leverage your strengths, not weaknesses. Customer-facing airline employee groups have a surprising amount of strength in that their day to day actions directly affect the long term success of the company. They can create repeat customers or just as easily drive away future customers. For pilots, unless something really high profile happens, most of their actions and decisions on the job don’t leave a personal impression with the passengers. I think a lot of people in the industry underestimate the difference.
Ah, good ole outrage bait. So much for ‘solidarity.’ A pyrrhic victory for this particular pilot, to feel superior, even when eventually there will be a better deal, and also for management, convincing the workers to fight amongst themselves. Folks, they all deserve better pay; and pilots should be supportive of their crews. Hoping the FAs get theirs soon, too!
Why do you show a picture of an AA 787 flight deck when the clown is a UA 737 captain…. Get your story right.
And yet, he’s right!
I wonder what pilots have to put up with each day with the cabin crew bellyaching about not getting a fair contract. This pilot expressed his beliefs but I would guess he is not the only one who believes this way.
My thoughts are as a former. Flight Attendant, 80% of pilots are red necks & pompous asses.
They only think of themselves, I flew from 1966 to 1986.
During negotiations they only cared about themselves.
My thoughts are as a former. Flight Attendant, 80% of pilots are red necks & pompous asses.
They only think of themselves, I flew from 1966 to 1986.
During negotiations they only cared about themselves.
Hit a little close to home, huh FAs? The truth hurts, I guess. Anyone doing a job that takes no other skills than 3 weeks training (that’s called unskilled labor) until they are retirement age is pathetic.
Mantis, today I own my own business in the luxury world & I’m thankful the we don’t deal with your type…
Mantis, today I own my own business in the luxury world & I’m thankful the we don’t deal with your type…
“Arrogance, I like that in a pilot” Viper (Tom Skerritt), Top Gun.
What’s sad is that this pilot doesn’t seem to get that it takes EVERYONE at the airline to get planes in the air and safely to their destinations. I’m not a fan of some FAs, but they do serve a role and should not be diminished for that.
And, if I were that pilot I might be worried about my job. These plane will operate themselves from gate to gate in the not too distant future.
Memories of the SWA pilot talking smack about their F/A’s. He had no idea he was hot mike and many heard. I believe he retired early. F/A’s have a very inflated opinion of themselves. Many of them have forgotten what customer service is and instead have become Cabin Commander’s. During the Covid period they took the mask silliness to a whole new level. I believe the FAA minimum to train a F/A is seven days. There is no requirements to apply for a job. I can assure you many pilots share his same attitude and on the other hand most flight attendants would say pilots are a-holes and over compensated. Here’s my prediction. The F/A’s will get a little sugar sprinkled on the deal they just voted down. Unfortunately they lost the time value of money.
Mantis is a douche. Everyone here knows it. So, ignore that mother f’er.
About the pilot… Next time you are at an airport, look around. Recently, these pilots have been walking around with the 80’s porn star stache. It’s their new signage! Just like the Oklahoma State’s superintendent, Ryan Walters who pushed Trump Bibles into schools. Most of these dudes are Trump soldiers. Yet all of them work in a unionized environment. Everyday, that fact kills their ego and manhood. Ahhhhh, the paradox they live in. UA FA’s make this asshole regret everything he had said. And demand UA management to enforce their social media policy! He and men like him do not belong to modern society!
@Coffee Please — Who doesn’t like a ‘little sugar’ in their coffees anyway?
The AFA and many individual United Flight Attendants supported the United Pilots during their recent contract negotiations. It is also true that the vast majority of United Pilots and their union sincerely support the AFA and their membership in their efforts to achieve a new agreement. One outlier is not sufficient to drive a wedge between these two labor groups. Most get that we need and support each other.
AI will eventually come for the jobs of pilots.
Bottom line airlines have no shortage of people applying for flight attendant jobs albeit many of them should never get near a plane. When there’s way more qualified applicants than actual job opening then it’s a dime a dozen.
“Some of this is unnecessary and counterproductive clear air touch and go flying in and out of the same airports that pilots have fought for specifically to drive up the cost and time to become a pilot, rather than for safety.”
Gary, again, you know nothing about this, yet continue to spew misinformation even after being called out on your strawman arguments. You and Ben Schlappig will only be happy when pay is reduced. Despicable behavior.
Back in the good ol’ days when aviation was younger, setting off on a long flight was much more like sailing into the unknown. Captains had to know their sh!t and be leaders. Nowadays, they are much more like heavy equipment operators. They do what they’re told, when they’re told, and what route to take.
Bad reporting as usual what the flight attendants are asking for IS NOT more money. They are fighting for better work rules, because that ultimately means a better quality of life. The union failed and tried to manipulate them but 71% said no it’s not acceptable. They need to fix several things from the hotel language to the reserve system that is essentially still 24 hour reserve with lipstick. United flight attendants always trail other airlines in terms of pay because the AFA is corrupt and United is cheap and cares little about happy workers.
The pilot will be dealt with by his crews and will be used an example to the rest. He didn’t just insult United flight attendants he insulted every flight attendant when those are the people he works with everyday. It does not matter if United gets involved at this point his crews will be doing United’s job regardless.
@Ed — AI will eventually come for us all.
“The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves.”
*The Terminator drum beat*
@Ryan – I have written extensively about the myriad complaints flight attendants have with the contract they rejected
@Kb – if you want to take issue with my arguments, then take issue with them with actual arguments. If you can’t do that – and can only dismiss what you cannot counter with reason and logic – then you probably don’t belong in a cockpit.
@Ed
Vending machines will eventually replace F/A’s. Easy setup.
@Leff
But yet your primary focus for this article was about demands for more money and not the actual truth? Once again bad reporting, and as far as I’m concerned you’re no better than the idiot pilot insulting flight attendants
@Coffee please
A vending machine can perform an emergency evacuation and contact Medlink during an inflight emergency? Thats news to me, wow 🙂
@Ryan
Next to the vending machines will be an emergency communication device. You know “In Case of Emergency” type things. Afib machines are everywhere. Just follow the instructions on the box. All in the name of cheap air fares.
Supply and demand.
Skilled vs. unskilled labor.
You don’t want to hear it but here it is. nd.
Which one of these has 10,000 applicants and people waiting in a line down around the corner to get a job?
… and which one of these are jobs that much more experience and skills and training, and have fewer people able to make it through the process, and are much more in demand? So much so that it’s a huge problem there aren’t enough of?
YOU ALL KNOW THE ANSWER.
One is more valuable than the other. Sorry folks. Did you not get the memo about how the world works?
@ coffee please
Yes let’s see the vending machine perform an emergency evacuation, serve a full tripple 777, and contact medlink and gather medical supplies. When you have your heart attack the vending machine will help you die. Be careful about karma coffee and what’s headed your way now MAGA
@Gary, perhaps check with your insiders but I have it on good authority that this one has at least temporarily been suspended from flying. He may turn out to be just fine as you say but at minimum he’s going to lose a chunk of his massive paycheck from not being able to work for a few weeks.
Word on the street is they are already removing him from his trips.
@Ryan
Emergency evacuation? Funny. Does anyone listen to your commands? No! Everyone in the overhead and grabbing their bags before they get off the jet. I see what you and your union is trying to do. This is purely an attempt to give the impression that your job is more important than it is. Easily replaceable. I believe the FAA mandate is 7 days of training. You have strength in numbers. That’s it. I have seen and witnessed the lack of service over the years both domestically and internationally. Many of you sit in your Jumpseat and surf the net or play candy crush, then complain how demanding the passengers were on the ride to the hotel. Like I said earlier the contract your group just rejected will be what you sign for in a few months with a very small increase. You will miss out on the time value of money.
Laugh now Big Watch Wearing Pilot Guy, your union contract isn’t going to last forever, and in a business that ties income to the level of satisfaction you deliver to your customers? You are well and truly at cruising altitude without a paddle or a clue.
Why would a UA pilot feel the need to comment sarcastically on a contract that does not involve him? This is a classic case of stay in your lane.
@Ryan so you’re saying that he should expect some left wing terrorist to poison him because he had the audacity to disagree with them?
Liberalism really is a mental disorder.
@Ryan — Thank you for what you do and for fighting the good fight on here and out there.
@Walter Barry — What took you so long, and where’ve you been lately? There were so many great opportunities for you to be a bigot on here again, but I guess you slept in or something. Tell us how you really feel. What would you like to do to your fellow countrymen? Don’t be shy.
@Andy @Ryan there’s a report that he’s been given two weeks paid leave
As I said he’ll be fine
Contract rhetoric…SOS DD
When you are a unionized employee you are worth exactly what the union negotiates…not a penny less or a penny more.
People saying the pilot will be fine are so foolish. He’s being reported non stop and his face and schedule is available for all to know now. If you know anything about the aviation industry if you are a snitch or make remarks that blast the very people you work with everyday they will end your career and push you out. Pissing off nearly 30,000 United flight attendants was not the move. I feel bad for the first officer that has to fly with him
@Coffee
If you don’t follow an evacuation command you’re essentially dead that’s on you. The flight attendants are in charge of assessing outside conditions prior to opening the door as well.
The training for a United flight attendant is for 6 1/2 weeks not a week you idiot.
Pay attention!!! Because I’ve made this clear multiple times the goal is not more money it’s to improve work rules. United has some of the worst work rules in the industry and there were no improvements in them that’s why they voted down the TA. It was not over money
Flight attendants will get retro pay and that’s still building while they wait. Let’s speak on things we actually know vs just say things that don’t even make sense to say
@Ryan — Well said. It’s not just about pay; it’s about so much more. Work conditions, job security, support. This is why unions are valuable. Without them, we’d hardly have ‘weekends,’ or a ‘middle class.’ Don’t mind the naysayers on here; and please do keep fighting the good fight. Most passengers want you guys to get what you want, too. Again, thank you for what you do. Feel free to come by VFTW anytime; Gary often posts stuff on topics like this. Would be nice to have more ‘voices of reason’ on here and in-general.
The FAs will have him killed or they’ll torment him so much, he will do it himself. Anyway… thanks for flying us!
@Ryan
Hello my triggered F/A. My reference to training requirements is what the FAA mandates. One week that is it. I picture you as one of those goofballs with all of your political pins on your uniform. I bet in the end Im correct on that contract prediction.
All I can say is that some pilots are very stupid. First to be stipid enough to even THINK this way and…Second to be stupid enough to post it. You already cannot fix stupid. He does NOT represent the majority of UA pilots! Thank GOD!
“if you want to take issue with my arguments, then take issue with them with actual arguments.”
Except you don’t have an argument Gary, you spew nonsense that isnt grounded in reality. Tell us what an ATP training program looks like, and then we’ll see. BTW, clear air touch and goes are not in the profile.
“If you can’t do that – and can only dismiss what you cannot counter with reason and logic – then you probably don’t belong in a cockpit.”
First, who said I was in a cockpit. You drive a wedge between cabin and cockpit crews because, for some reason, you have a hatred for them. Look at the way you write about them in your other reviews.
Second, you don’t even present your arguments with “reason and logic”, nor in good faith. You’re still blathering on about clear air touch and goes, and tethered hot air balloon pilots going to the airlines.
So I’ll say this, if you want reason and logic, you first. And don’t ever tell anyone where they belong, especially cabin or cockpit crews. You have ZERO idea of what makes a good crewmember, based on your clear lack of coherent arguments.
You use your platform to ridicule and belittle.
Brandoloni’s Law:
The amount of energy needed to refute BS is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it.