United Airlines reportedly threatened to force everyone on their flight 923 from Los Angeles to London to get off the aircraft on Sunday, unless three business class passengers gave up their seats and moved to extra legroom coach in order to make room for flight attendants. A passenger says that this “came across as a threat, both in their wording and tone.”
United Airlines Business Class Cabin
Apparently, crew rest seats on the aircraft were inoperative and so the airline needed to assign business class seats for this purpose. Since the flight is ten and a half hours long, government regulations require dedicated crew rest.
Since the business cabin was full, they needed three volunteers. But if nobody was going to volunteer, the airline would pick passengers to downgrade. And since they don’t physically remove customers from the aircraft once seated (based on corporate scarring after the David Dao dragging incident in 2017, and the FAA regulations that followed), they would require everyone to get off the plane and re-board the aircraft.
The airline offered $1,500 in travel credits plus 75,000 miles for the inconvenience, but they didn’t have takers, and so they upped the travel credit offer to $2,500 which was enough to find three volunteers. The flight left 44 minutes late because of the ordeal.
Boeing 787 Crew Rest
Boeing 787 Crew Rest
Another United passenger shared that the same thing happened to their flight departing India. This time it was weight and balance, where the first seven rows of passengers in business class were forced to move to coach.
- Only middle seats were available
- The whole thing had to be accomplished in 20 minutes, before crew timed out
- So they didn’t take volunteers, and wouldn’t allow swapping
There were passengers, such as the one sharing what happened, who were happy to take the $2,500 compensation, but they were seated in the 8th row and not eligible. Since some of the passengers in the first 7 rows, “were already in their pajamas, watching movies” they were “livid and the whole thing fell apart.” It took more than the allotted 20 minutes, and the flight cancelled – for the second day in a row.
Another passenger shares volunteering to downgrade for $2,000, and a return of their friend’s PlusPoints which were used to upgrade from coach to business class.
The money comes in the form of travel credit, good for a year, which I used to visit my family. I left my spouse sitting in Polaris, and he gave me his amenity kit. We were both happy.
For some, $2,000 or more in travel vouchers is like a lottery win. For others it’s an absurd slap in the face – they bought the premium cabin seat to relax comfortably on the long flight, and they’re not getting what they paid for. It would take orders or magnitude more than that to ‘make it right’.
Corporations gonna corporate no matter what. Want volunteers? Compensate people properly. These things cost thousands of dollars. Fully REFUND whatever people paid, PLUS the compensation to downgrade. Or rebook in better or similar product for later flight for free, PLUS compensation. I hate it when they’re like “here’s 10% of the product cost in monopoly money that didn’t cost me anything. Now move to the back”.
Settling into a Polaris seat on an international flight and being asked to move is psychologically damaging lol.
For 2,500 and 75k miles, I’d do it though but only assuming I had been upgraded and that I was not paying full freight. For a biz class passenger it should have started there. Unbelievable to start so low with the comp.
Hmmm… Maybe it’s just me, but the Title doesn’t sound like what happened. Title: “United Airlines Threatens Passengers: Give Up Business Class Seats To Flight Attendants Or Entire Flight Gets Kicked Off”. What actually happened: “The airline offered $1,500 in travel credits plus 75,000 miles for the inconvenience, but they didn’t have takers, and so they upped the travel credit offer to $2,500 which was enough to find three VOLUNTEERS.” Sure, it’s likely that the FA’s said we’ll need to find three volunteers or we’ll need to deplane and hold the auction out of the aircraft. That’s quite a bit different than the threat listed in the title.
Would someone who paid full also get a refund of the fare difference?
I also wonder what could go so wrong to inop the crew rest.
you’ve got to be kidding. twenty five hundred and seventy five thousand mileage won’t even close to compensate on giving up business class for ten hour long flight.
Texas TJ: “ditto.”
This is an FAA requirement. They flight would have been cancelled. Maintenance tried to fix the crew area but could not so UAL had the option of either cancelling the flight or getting some passengers to move. And actually I believe they could have forced some passengers off the plane.
Much better to get a few passengers to move (and pay them to do so) than cancel and inconvenience all the passengers on the plane as well as incur all the cost associated with a cancelation.
Why aren’t those economy plus seats good enough for crew rest?
Full refund and the same amount in flight credits
@TexasTJ
Then you’d be mistaken. This is well-covered in other outlets
The Purser (head FA) EXPLICITLY came on the PA and threatened that the entire plane would be emptied… basically so the Gate Agents could then decide (likely without comp) who wouldn’t be allowed to board.
They didn’t threaten to cancel but they did threaten to deplane everybody and start over.
At least UAL doesn’t want to get into the grey area of “Hey, you poor sucker have to get off the plane. Safety and security issue.” Either bribe people or empty the whole plane and re-board with fewer souls in Polaris.
I was on this flight a couple of weeks ago. Those Dreamliners ARE starting to show some wear and tear.
I checked the price of tickets on that route. The travel vouchers were essentially converted from cash. The 75,000 miles was the only bonus. The initial offer was laughably inadequate. I’m somewhat surprised that they found three volunteers for that deal. Maybe they were business travelers who had enough flexibility in their schedules and could use the vouchers later for vacation.
Why couldn’t the crew use the available extra legroom seats? Why did it have to be business?
Curious how the overhead crew rest on the B787 was INOP.. Anyone have insight as to what issues would make the crew rest INOP?
@Phil
Also well-reported. The FA contracts and the applicable safety regimen for Long_Haul beyond 10 hours both mandate “full lie flat rest positions”.
We need to give the airlines a wake up call. How about restoring some of the Amtrak routes (understanding the tracks in many areas have been removed or deteriorated). Add more routes on the Jet (a luxury bus serving DC and NYC).
Yoss says:
September 23, 2024 at 11:11 am
Curious how the overhead crew rest on the B787 was INOP.. Anyone have insight as to what issues would make the crew rest INOP?
On the B777 I have seen crew rest bunk area placarded inop due to inadequate cooling or inadequate air flow.
Since I’m retired and travel for leisure, I am usually inclined to give up my seat, as long as the airline makes it worth doing, which means good monetary compensation, a complimentary stay at a good hotel and re-booking on the highest class available.
I just checked prices on that route looking forward about 11 months, the normal lead time for me. The R/T J (fully refundable) is under $5,000. So, to me it’s a free Y+ plus extra miles. I might not take it, but thus is my admitted less than full rationality.
Agree with Steve as this frequently pops into my head when no business seats are available on long haul flight for my work….
If the economy seats aren’t good enough for the flight attendants, HOW THE HELL ARE THEY CONSIDERED SUITABLE FOR PASSANGERS?!
EVERY airline executive needs to forced to sit in the smallest economy seat they provide for the entirety of their work day.. let’s see how long they last
No voucher.
MONEY
CASH
*And* refunding my ticket for this flight.
*And* the mileage.
“… government regulations require dedicated crew rest.”
As usual, if you find a problem, it’s not difficult to determine the source.
First, if the passenger in business class truly is a business traveler, (and not a leisure traver,) then the passenger didn’t pay anything, corporate paid for it. Second, a truly business traveler may not be authorized by corporate to accept a downgrade “bribe.” Thirdly, plenty of leisure travelers in the form of retirees and college attendees, and influencers seem to fill up business class. So, I can’t get too excited. That said, having flown intercontinental UA business class, i never cared for the “tone” of either the cabin or the service, and for the past five years of leisure intercontinental, I gladly choose UA’s competition. I find UA rather tawdry, yet they seem to be getting less extreme, with fewer and few viral tiktok occurences.
When UAL mechanics can’t fix an issue, you know that you’re in trouble!
The problem here is United was only offering in-game currency, not real money. Of course no one is going to take it.
“Only middle seats were available”
Nope! I’ll fly another day. Let me off the plane. And you now have to unload my bags too.
“The problem here is United was only offering in-game currency, not real money. Of course no one is going to take it.”
You nail it! They’ve turned MP Miles into Monopoly money. It’s worthless.
I was an operation agent for years for a major.It is simple to get volunteers as long you know what you are doing.Todays agents don’t really know how to handle the problem and common sense.$2500 is not enough money for a downgrade.
You must offer cash money and write a check the same day,no nonsense credit, also meals and cover hotel expenses if passenger leaves the next day
Pay up United is your problem not the passengers
Biz first costs like 5k overseas. Are you kidding me? I would not do it for $6k. I might stop traveling if this stuff keeps happening. No way am I sitting in coach for 10 hours in a Miyake seat of you give me 10k.
Is there no first class on that flight. Usually seats available there. Could have upgraded 3 to 1st instead
Polaris are among the worst business class seats.. it’s like being in a coffin. You can’t even turn to your side. Very claustrophobic. Would be very happy to give them up for compensation. I flew once in Polaris from SFO to TPE. I would take economy Plus seats over this any day.
I thought it was United’s bump policy to drag you off into the gate area and then move some teeth with their fists from your mouth to your throat. I guess they think they are now more “civilised.”
Will never fly United again. 3. Hours left into transatlantic flight all restrooms were full and closed leaving only first class available. So everyone kept coming into first.. Yet they continued to keep serving food and drinks saying they were obligated to…then kept threatening they would have to divert to clear the restrooms.
.
For the India flight the passengers rightly didn’t cooperate and the flight cancelled that day
What a joke of compensation offers
United Airlines is true a$$ cancer, whenever possible – which is about 95% of the time – I choose to fly with their competition.
So it was 2500 in monopoly bucks and 75k devalued at a whim points that won’t get you a one way to Europe in J. No thanks!
They should refund the fare paid and give something of some value that can be useful!
I flew Polaris to & from Athens last month. The service has dropped to such a low level that my friend in Economy Plus got almost everything I did! The 787 seats are way too narrow & if you want a mattress pad, ask early! The FA told me to keep it quiet as she didn’t have many. The food choices both ways were shockingly bad. Maybe it’s just the direct flight to ATH & back? There wasn’t even a pasta choice. The meal service used to be almost elegant, going by course. Now you just get a tray with salad and your entree. Then ice cream. I missed the bread. I couldn’t sleep and went up to grab a snack. Apples or chips. I had low blood sugar and thought I could grab a piece of apple strudel . I was SO glad I ate at the Polaris Club. They are way overpricing those seats! But, If I hadn’t been meeting up with a friend and got that “offer” I might’ve taken it IF it included rebooking in Polaris and hotel reimbursement. It seems as if I’m always getting texts to give up my seat for compensation! But it’s never enough. And why are they not taking care of this before boarding? This may be a stupid question but aren’t there other crew members they could call? This doesn’t surprise me at all. I just hope they get their act together. I’m looking forward to European trips annually and as a million miler it seems silly to change airlines now.
Is the government can mandate the resting requirements it can mandate compensation for a downgrade at 2X the price paid for the business class tickets.
I’m curious, are FA’s treated any differently than pilots in terms of lie-flat rest? Probably not, but I think maybe they should be. Pilots need to be alert and sharp for takeoff and landing on 100% of flights. In the event of an emergency situation, split second reaction time is critical.
Not to diminish what FA’s do, as it’s critical for safety, but their tasks are more of the “gross motor skill” type. I would think someone well trained in emergency situations would still function well being tired. Look at how well fire fighters can still perform even after long and grueling days. Would three hours in a “better legroom” coach seat vs Polaris matter?
United Airlines is run by a very strong mafia workers union everyone knows they are NOT at all afraid of FAA, their own management and BBB they know their management will turn a blind eye on abuses by these Nazis dictatorial flight attendants. Most only have high school education the American traveling public should know they are at the mercy of some of these very low emotional intelligence out of control flight attendants the pilots who are for their own interest just let them run the cabin! My experience just making a comment how a very rude middle eastern male attendant was making up story I was belligerent at all I still have video clips they sent me. He overruled the ground staff decision to believe the rest of passengers and myself he was the lying one. FAA must be empowered to ban these few crews to be unqualified to be flying crew! United Airlines management are powerless rather than hopeless trying to fire them because they do not think their customers are important as long as they make their fates cheap which is what you get.
Low customer services for cheaper fares!
Maintaining the highest safety standards in aviation is paramount. Professional pilots understand the importance of adhering to all regulations, including those pertaining to crew rest. Passenger safety is a shared responsibility, and rigorous adherence to established protocols is essential. Any deviation from these established norms could potentially compromise the integrity of flight operations. Therefore, prioritizing crew rest, as mandated by regulatory bodies, is non-negotiable in upholding the highest levels of aviation safety.
If they have three seats in Coach, why couldn’t the employees just sit there?
Did the passengers get a refund plus the $2500 and miles? My next trip to London is $4500 roundtrip from SFO purchased months in advance. How is their offer like winning the lottery when you potential paid more for the actual seat in Polaris?
Regarding G vega’s comment:
I was an operation agent for years for a major.It is simple to get volunteers as long you know what you are doing.Todays agents don’t really know how to handle the problem and common sense.
You are 100% CORRECT!!
This is part of the problem with the Dr. Dao situation. Several passengers said that the GA escalated the situation when she came on and said, “We have four crew members that have to go to Louisville. This plane’s not going anywhere until four of you get off.”
Threatening to deplane everybody is OUT AND OUT BULLYING!!
I have booked a Business class seat from NYC to Lahore, PK which is over $5000. You would have to give me at least $3500 and miles before I would consider a down grade. It isn’t my fault if the airline messed up. I would think they would treat the Business class better.
Word of support for Flight Attendants. Having been married to one, I know how hard they work. On long flights they sometimes are on their feet for hours. Federal mandate for lay flat seats for crew rest is logical and adds to overall flight safety. Attempts have been made to regulate pax compensation, but airlines fight this tooth and nail.
Airlines should give passengers the seats they pay for,; otherwise, The airline is cheating the passenger.
“Lee Runkle says:
September 23, 2024 at 11:40 am
We need to give the airlines a wake up call. How about restoring some of the Amtrak routes (understanding the tracks in many areas have been removed or deteriorated). Add more routes on the Jet (a luxury bus serving DC and NYC).”
Lee, can you tell me where the train from Boston to London departs? And the bus from NYC to Paris??
There are a lot of tough talkers on here. But I’m they’re just that- talking tough.
Airlines are crooks, that’s for sure. But they do not owe anyone the world when things go wrong. Sounds like greed leads the way among Gary’s readers.
For a flight that long, $2500 + 75K miles still isn’t worth it. Give me that, plus a J ticket on any one of the like 10 other flights on all carriers that fly LAX-LHR that day and we’re talking.
This is United. Im taking AA going to Chicago with my son for Oct 13 Marathon.
@ Adam Kennedy I enjoyed your comment. With a fair amount of training in economics, I note many responding here have a crazy WTP/WTA inconsistency (willingness to pay/willingness to accept). If you are saying you wouldn’t downgrade J to Y+ for $5,000 one way, would you pay $5,000 to upgrade Y+ to J if offered at check-in?