Comments

1. This is a balancing act that happens every day. If you wait until the last minute to clear and standby passengers, the flight will leave late. If too early you will on occasion run into this situation. UA did the right thing by removing the standby. This passenger wasn’t necessarily a UA employee. The removed passenger should have quietly de-planed. I would be surprised if UA doesn’t contact this person and let them know it should not happen again. They’ve removed travel privileges for less.

2. I flew FRA to LAX and when I got to my connecting flight on United, they had changed my seat to the last row (toilet class) because they “thought” I would not make my connection. I was at the gate when they just started boarding. The United gate jerk told me they thought I’d be late, so they gave away my seat. I asked him “then why did you re-book me on the exact same flight?” No answer. As I boarded the plane, I could see a dead head United clown sitting in my original seat. United does not care about anyone but themselves.

3. SLOW NEWS DAY ! DUH let me take a UA story and turn it into AA …

4. I started my road warrior career 40 years ago when I lived in Chicago. I had to make a choice on which top airline to chase miles on, and out of ORD it was UA or AA. I chose UA and stuck with them for the most part, except when I went to AA hub destinations of course. I thank my lucky stars every day that I chose the right airline. I pity those that chose wrong, AA is pretty close to Frontier for the most part these days. (I only fly for fun now, avoid AA totally, even to the point I have to figure out what to do with about 100K miles I have banked on AA)

5. Ive shown up to AA connecting flights while they were even boarding my original group and since I was rebooked was told nope sorry. Last time the flight they put me on two hours later canceled. Then the one after that got delayed 3 hours. For 7 hour delay to destination they said, nope, not entitled to anything at all. Since they say the last delay that occurred was what counts (which was weather). It my first flight hadn’t take a mechanical delay (which suddenly got fixed ahead of estimate) I would have been on time.

   I had a situation with DL in ATL early this year… my flight to ATL pushed back then got caught in a GDP. Before we even took off for ATL, my connecting flight was boarding. The only one of the day to my destination. I was rebooked for 24 hours later which was 40 minutes before my return. So, did the trip in vain thing and took a round trip flight to ATL for nothing. I got put on next flight home. Well would seem the agent cleared standbys like 45 minutes before departure. She refused to help me and said I don’t have a seat so I have to wait and now it’s boarding time so “you’re late checking in, I can’t do anything.” I went to service counter and got a Red Coat. He called the gate and whatever the agent said pissed him off so badly he got up and told me to follow him and he went to the gate to chew her out. Apparently my being added now oversold the flight. And she cleared a nonrev (a friend at DL working in OCC at that moment confirmed a buddy pass was cleared). Red Coat told her to go take them off the plane. She refused and told him to do it himself. Needless to say I ended up in the seat and somebody probably got written up for insubordination.

6. United violated Federal Law. Specifically, the TICKETS Act was implemented in response to the debacle when United had Dr. David Dao dragged off the plane.

   § 250.7 Provision to implement the Transparency Improvements and Compensation to Keep Every Ticketholder Safe Act of 2018.
   (a) Boarded passengers. A covered air carrier may not deny a revenue passenger traveling on a confirmed reservation permission to board, or involuntarily remove that passenger from the aircraft, once a revenue passenger has:
   (1) Checked in for the flight prior to the check-in deadline; and
   (2) Had their ticket or boarding pass collected or electronically scanned and accepted by the gate agent.

   United did a couple things wrong here:
   1) The assumed the passenger would misconnect prematurely.
   2) Violation of Federal Law #1: They did not initiate the process for Involuntarily Denied Boarding. Specifically, not offering compensation for people to voluntarily leave the plane. (Or… if there were people still off the plane to not board.)
   3) Violation of Federal Law #2: This was not IDB — they violated the TICKETS Act by kicking off a passenger who had already checked in on time and had their boarding pass scanned by the GA.

7. While no business gets it right all the time, I have twice been removed off a standby flight on AA after being boarded, to let a full fare passenger fly; once they were even standby from the day before having missed the connection to their intended flight.

   For the record, I’m a 98% full fare and 2% standby frequent flier.

   I’m sure there will be stories of United NOT removing a standby passenger.

8. DA Pilit:
   You are making the same assumption I initially made. No one said it was a NON-REV standby. I totally get a revenue standby getting upset and not understanding the system. I’m not justifying yelling at the original pax, but calling UAL to complain, sure.
   If it was a non-Rev, then you are absolutely correct. Whoever was sponsoring the benefits is in for a call from their supervisor.

9. Wow. I’m a big fan of American (although my cheerleading is nowhere near world class like Tim Dunn and Delta), and so far I’ve been burned by AA’s AURA just once. For sure even once is too much, I was super pissed at American for around 3 months as I recall (and flew Delta during that time). The delay was around 4 hours (and loss of good seats), and like the others, I actually made it to the Gate during Boarding. AA needs to scrap this dumpster fire, it’s costing them way too much in customer loyalty, and the contribution to meeting D0 is questionable at best. They need to re-code AURA, so it simply makes back-up reservations on future flights, but doesn’t actually pull the trigger on those unless the pax doesn’t make it by the end of boarding.

10. I now avoid AA as much as possible. They pulled this sh!t on some friends who were in the air. When they rushed and made their connection their seats were gone. They were ” lucky” to get seats 25 rows apart.

11. OMG. You are such a petty AA hater. Poor baby

12. Good for American – policy is policy and filling seats priority- as cant worry about things out of one’s control and keep seats held and potentially empty.

13. I have the privilege of Stand- by and always keep in the back of my mind this could happen. One should exit with humility not gripes.

14. @C M, whether or not the customer removed was a nonrevs, the TICKETS Act does not apply here as it specifies “passenger traveling on a confirmed reservation,” which a standby passenger does not have.

15. My husband and I just had this happen to us in June- (Americam Airline) We used a LOT of frequflyer miles to get 2 Bussiness class round trip tickets from Norfolk to Kansas City. We had to go through Charlotte. Getting to Charlotte we went to the terminal and gate for our connection. As time approached, we knew something was wrong. Checked the AA app and it showed the terminal and gate had been changed. We ran to new site. Last to board and when sitting g down 4 mins later door closed. Several passengers around us said they were not notified either! On return flight from Kansas City flight was delayed for about 30 mins bc of seats needing adjustment and a strip had to be reattached to an overhead bin. We arrived in time to get to our connection in Charlotte to be told to wait in group 1-4 boarding area. The plan was late coming in and they were deplaning. As we stood there my husband saw on the screen that our business class seats were given to some other people!! We were very upset and talked to the agents who looked in the computer and said we were not in there. We produced our tickets and then told about the policy that we did not know about. Bc we were delayed in KC they rebooked us on a later flight! We did get business class seats but arrived home in the early morning hours instead of 9:30 pm! This policy stinks!! As soon as we use up the rest of our miles we will steer clear from American! Good luck to you all out there!

16. Why anyone would voluntarily fly either United or American is beyond me. If you want a miserable customer service experience, at least save your money and fly a budget airline. I’ll take a layover with Delta or Alaska than United or American any day.

17. If I am reading correctly, the standby passenger was upset because they were given a seat, allowed to board the aircraft, then removed from the aircraft in order to give the seat back to the original ticket holder who managed to get to the gate before boarding was complete. Based on this information, the standby passenger is considered an involuntary denied boarding and is entitled to compensation because they were allowed to board the aircraft and take the seat. Once a passenger is assigned a seat and allowed to board the aircraft and sit in the seat, they become an involuntary denied boarding, hence why American Airlines is not giving the seat back which is how it is supposed to be. This blog loves to attack American Airlines, even when right is right. Now, if the passenger had not already boarded the aircraft, that could have been a different situation when correcting the missed connection passenger itinerary. If this blog is going to dissect the situation, it should do so ethically with all the detail necessary to explain the various outcomes resulting from the information being presented.

18. 2061 vs. 75 vs. Zero. Jeez those number speak for themselves.

    But AA insists denied boarding isn’t a problem , customers only care about departing on time.

    Are the people running AA liars or idiots?

19. I flew standby on American Airlines for 30 years. I have been bumped a few times when someone showed up late. That’s the way it works. I’m surprised if the rules have changed recently, but I still love American Airlines

20. Hey, American, if you’re going to do this AURA crud, YOU BETTER D∆Mπ WELL GET IT RIGHT! Set your overlap thresholds correctly, and consider when the connecting flight is also delayed. Yes, it’s a little more work for your lazy coders, but if you’re going to do it, do it right. There is no reason that standbys can’t be cleared LAST, just before the door closes.

    This is just another reason “AA” means “Avoid American”.

21. I fly UA preferred (due to lifetime status), Delta too (I know they are better). AA and ‘low cost’ brands (they’re not low cost!) never

22. Airline landed late. I ran to my gate, as I was instructed connecting flight would be waiting. They had not even closed the gate doors, but refused me boarding!! Yet, I have taken other flights where take off is delayed WAITING for late connecting passengers. The airlines seem to pick snd chose how rhey handle theses situations

23. If it was a non-rev standby then this can happen and the person should leave quietly. If not then likely they (or their sponsor if a travel companion) will likely get reprimanded for it. If it was a revenue standby then things are perhaps a bit more murky if the gate agent has already cleared the passenger and boarded them

24. Being a 1K passenger helps a lot, and also I would imagine the. somewhat intoxicated standby passenger combined with an agent that was probably on top of their game and in the right mood helped a lot. I once got to an AA gate as the gate agent was exiting the jet bridge from closing the aircraft door and knowing it was the last flight if the day to MIA and my being Exec Plat, they got me onto the plane. Quite unusual. But a solod agent helps olij dicey circumstances, regardless of the airline.

25. Worked as a gate agent @ORD for UA many years ago. Back then passengers could inform flight attendant they had a really close connection time wise. You got priority exit. You could also notify gate agent upon departure & they would call connecting gate that you were on the way. Usually worked well, but things sure have changed!

26. Please explain to me why anyone flys American Airlines – sane responses only…

27. CM says United violated the law and cites correct but incomplete support. The article states the customer arrived “while still boarding” but cleverly does not provide timeline. The airline is covered by policy to release seats of those not present at the gate at a specified cut off (15min at United)… to permit the processing of stand bys to fill the newly vacant seats. Hence, Final boarding calls around that time and signage board reflections. United made a good customer service call here but if the customer was >-15m but the stand bys were still boarding, they were within their right to deny. Unknown if the stand by was an employee (many are not) then absolutely the correct call and routinely done.

28. To C M:
    I think an attorney would point out that the wording of that code regulation absolves U.A. The key qualifier is “traveling on a confirmed reservation . . . ” The person they boarded had not been booked for that flight, i.e. he did not have a ‘confirmed reservation’, ergo the regulation isn’t applicable.
    And, while your #2 item wasn’t technically applicable, U.A. should adjust their policy for this situation to do that very thing. Once they’ve made the mistake of boarding a stand-by passenger prematurely on a full flight, they should elevate the situation to an over booking (rather ‘boarding’ in this case) status, and thus implement established procedures for it. Otherwise they have one pissed off passenger who may never fly them again, losing more money than if they’d offered a cash sum for someone to voluntarily give up their seat.

29. I’m pretty sure United broke the law. Airlines are only permitted to force passengers to leave a plane they’ve boarded for a limited list of reasons, and I’m pretty sure “we’d prefer another another passenger sky instead” isn’t on the list. This is why David Dao get a settlement after he was removed.

30. Several years ago traveling back from LAX on United my oldest daughter was not feeling well and it looked as though we might not be able to stay on our departing flight to O’Hare. We were in first class and regular boarding was continuing as scheduled while she kept running to the bathroom on the plane and then the gate attendant/purser asked if maybe we should just catch a later flight. While that discussion was going on the first class flight attendant gave away both of our seats to elite passengers sitting in economy. My daughter rallied, felt better and I had the gate purser bump the two economy passengers back to their original seats.

31. Everyone is missing the obvious. The passenger who got his seat back is 1K – As stated that he called the 1K line to give feedback.

    I suspect that if this was a regular non-elite status holder, it would’ve been a different story

32. What a bunch of hogwash! With big corporations, one of the hardest thing to get right is consistency. Traveling on all the above forementioned companies and likely far more often than this author, I say simply, NOT TRUE! As a captain for one of the largest airlines in the world I consistently make the decision, in conjunction with the necessary departments,to make sure all my passengers get on my aircraft and ensure that every seat is filled. So, it is simply not true to say American Airlines would not do the same as another company. I for one know they do. We can all have bad experiences on all the companies and we associate those bad experiences with a brand. It all boils down to the personal experience and I know countless others try to and do make that experience a good one for the traveling public at large. Don’t believe everything you read. Happy Independence Day to you and to the countless woman and men who sacrifice day in and day out to make sure you are indeed happy on life’s journey every single day! Cheers! ~Captain Greg ‍✈️

33. This has happened to me several times especially at DFW. However, keep in mind the minimum connection is at least as little as 40 minutes. If it’s important, say an international flight, I choose flights with a longer connection- a minor pain in comparison to a snowballing delay.

34. Hmmm. I had a flight not that long ago on United where we got to Chicago late, I ran through customs, changed terminals, and made it to the gate right before boarding ended and they didn’t give me my business class seat back. Also wouldn’t even let me chill in the lounge for the couple hours waiting for the flight they moved me to.

    Not sure United is always better in this case.

35. If the standby customer was a non-rev employee, UA did not break the law. Every employee knows they’re not safe in their seat until the boarding door closes and the plane pushes back. It’s the nature of the beast when non-revving.

36. On the one hand, I realize that there is a juggling act here.

    On the other hand, the DOT needs to declare this as an IDB and compel compensation accordingly – as well as a refund of any lost upgrades. The airline can still make that call, they’re just weighing clear consequences. I think /most/ of the umbrage is at the airline deciding to “go Bartleby” and decide they’d rather not let you on your booked flight.

    TBH I would ABSOLUTELY refuse to convict if the pax took their original seat and refused to move.

37. Gull Air ACK is correct in saying that my citation is correct, but incomplete. The passenger who barely made his connection posted on Reddit but did not specify rev vs. non rev. My post was written as if the pax were a rev vs. non rev. In order to post a fair assessment, I need to look at both possible scenarios.

    If the pax were non rev:
    Based on the responses to the OP on Reddit, if this was a non rev pax, they can be bumped for rev pax even when sitting on the plane. In addition, several of the Reddit comments indicated that if a non rev acted that way and caused as scene, it is grounds for losing non rev privileges for several months, possibly forever.

    If the pax were rev:
    The OP (the guy who barely made his connection) said this, “when I got to my seat there was someone in it already” — so… from this standpoint, the standby met the qualifications of having been boarded (14 CFR 250.7) and it was a violation of Federal Law to boot him. (Even if they were boarding standbys, this one had already boarded.)

    I also have to say that I made an unfair statement which is based on an “assumption.” My “assumption” — that UA did not try to give any incentives for somebody to deplane and/or if they were still in the boarding process for somebody who had not been boarded to take a later flight. This was wrong on my part.

38. This just happened to me. Flying AA Newark to Phoenix to Palm Springs. Newark flight delayed so would miss connection so they put me on the flight the next morning, with no compensation, no hotel voucher, moved from exit row to last row on plane. I finally talked them into letting me take the original flight to Phoenix where the gave me hotel and meal voucher. All at my insistence, they said tomorrow morning and that was it. Terrible customer service.

39. Total bullshit story. My wife and son were standby at American in there seats ready to pull the gate and they sent two gate agents on to remove them because the couple just showed up after the doors were closed. They were stranded in Miami overnight till almost noon the next day. So American takes care of there customers.

40. There’s a lot of people assuming the standby was a nonrev but it’s probably a safe assumption they were revenue. Every UA nonrev knows this can happen if you’re the last to clear, and if it does they take it on the chin and quietly disembark. Revenue standbys on the other hand may not be as familiar with the process, especially if they’re already frustrated from being on standby due to a missed or delayed flight.

41. As a frequent non revenue traveler I don’t get comfortable in my seat until the plane is being pushed back.

42. Good for you Gary on posting the truth. Corporations are people. They should behave like it.

43. Maybe AA has so many involuntary bumps because they offer and book connections of 25 minutes. I see these and turn them down. If you accept that connection you are bound to end up with possible missed connections and stand bys taking your seat

44. Hogwash, they didn’t give the seat away, they sold it away from the reserved, paying paasenger. The thought of holding a seat and losing revenue was too much.

45. I am an AA returned. I have been asked to gather my bags and go with the gate agent. Their policy is always paying customer first. We who fly often no Rev. Expect to be removed when we are occupying a seat that should gonto a paying customer. I have been flying non Rev for 32 years now and it has happened several times. A minor inconvenience for the privilege of flying for a very low figure. I alway respect paying customers and would rather give up my seat voluntarily than to inconvenience anyone who has paid fir a ticket.

46. Sometimes, the airline gets penalized monetarily. About 15 years ago my wife and I were booked from London to Paris on the last flght of the day. We got to the airport very early and asked at the check-in counter whether they would put us on the second-to-last flight, which was due to leave in about an hour. They said, “No; you’re stuck on the last flight.” So we took our sweet time and got to the gate just as that earlier flight was completing boarding. They did not let us get on it, but they told us that had we gotten there a bit earlier they would have overridden the stupid advice that the counter agent had given us and would have let us on the plane. Oh well, just another hour until the flight on which we were booked. Except that that flight never left that evening, due to a problem for which the airline was responsible. So the airline ended up having to put us up overnight and compensate us £500. (Not that I am much a fan of the sclerotic EU nanny state, but that time the overbearing web of regulation worked out well for me, although the airline made no effort to inform passengers of their rights, and it took some effort in quite a while for me to get payment.)

47. Everyone, let me make this as clear and transparent as possible as I have been flying Stand By, Nonrev and Revenue for 25 years on multiple airlines. All airlines have what they call a 10 minute rule. If a paid pax is not there 10 min before their flight (baring a hold) your seat is released to stand by’s, Period! If the loads are wide open the gate agent or computer will clear standbys 30-45 min early, but if it’s tight, they will wait until the 10 min mark. Getting bumped or making the “walk of shame” is very rare (And if you’re a nonrev you absolutely must comply quietly) ONLY a “must ride” or 1K or higher status may get the privilege of getting on after its closed if It’s an experienced gate-ops agent and the jet bridge has not been pulled. It’s a judgment call. And a side note to all who nonrev… Start dressing accordingly and not like you just rolled out of bed or are homeless! Ugh!

48. To A Lee:
    You bring up an **excellent** point that an attorney would make the argument, “they were not traveling on a confirmed reservation so UA is absolved of any wrongdoing.” (Aside: I am assuming this was a rev pax.) I reviewed the CoC and Rule 4, Section A indicates, “A reservation for space on a given flight of UA is valid when the availability and allocation of such space is confirmed by UA or an authorized agent of UA and entered into the carrier’s reservations system.” I would anticipate that if the pax decided to pursue legal action, his argument (and/or his attorney’s) would be based on and interpretation that once he was given the seat, he now was no longer standby and now had a confirmed reservation.

    And… you are 100% spot on regarding your comment, “And, while your #2 item wasn’t technically applicable, U.A. should adjust their policy for this situation to do that very thing. Once they’ve made the mistake of boarding a stand-by passenger prematurely on a full flight, they should elevate the situation to an over booking (rather ‘boarding’ in this case) status, and thus implement established procedures for it. Otherwise they have one pissed off passenger who may never fly them again, losing more money than if they’d offered a cash sum for someone to voluntarily give up their seat.”

    100% agree with you here. Once the GA saw what happened, they should have contacted a Passenger Service Agent (“Red Coat”) and said, “I screwed up. The plane has X number of seats and there are X+1 people boarded. One person is not seated. You have more authority than I do to incentivize ($$$) somebody to deboard.”

49. Is the massive amount of “standby” passengers normal anywhere else in the world? I’m a regular flyer in Australia and I don’t think I’ve ever seen it here or on recent trips to Europe. But the US seems to have a whole system of filling the plane at the gate with people that don’t have actual guaranteed seats. Even upgrades here clear several hours before flying at worst.

50. I wonder if a revenue passenger who is burned by AA’s AURA policy has any recourse with the DOT to force AA to give IDB compensation as prescribed by law if the passenger is delayed in getting to his final destination long enough?