Airlines overbook coach, but rarely overbook business and first class. The airline may sell more tickets than seats, but it’s the passengers in back who usually risk being kicked off the flight. And this actually makes sense.
- If passengers no show as expected, it’s easier to move passengers up to a higher cabin than a lower cabin.
- Statistically it’s easier to predict no shows in the larger coach cabin.
- If a business class passenger no shows, there are usually coach passengers on a wait list to upgrade.
Yesterday I wrote about United Airlines cancelling a flight because business class passengers wouldn’t give up their Polaris sets and moving to middles in the back quickly enough. That was on a Los Angeles to London flight on Sunday.
In that case, crew rest seats were broken and the airline needed the lie flat seats for contractually and regulatorily-required rest during the more than 10 hour flight.
Sometimes an airline winds up with more business class passengers than they can accommodate because, for instance,
- A seat is broken and can’t be fixed quickly enough
- Heavy headwinds will slow down the plane and there are weight and balance issues
- Very important passengers – like royal family members travel on an airline like Thai or Etihad – decide they want to take the flight
A United Airlines flight from Chicago to London, though, had the only thing happen which might require 13 business class passengers to get busted down from business class to coach.
Post by @ms_escalonaView on Threads
The airline swapped the planned aircraft for the flight with another one that had fewer business class seats, so they wound up with more business class passengers than seats. The interesting thing about an aircraft swap is that, while an airline has to refund the difference in fare paid between business and coach, they aren’t actually required to cover additional compensation.
In fact, when they refuse transportation to a passenger on an overbooked flight due to an aircraft swap, the passenger either gets sent on another flight or refunded… but no additional compensation is legally required.
Here United threatens that they need the volunteers “or no one boards the plane” because once passengers are accepted for boarding, they cannot be removed involuntarily.
(HT: Michelle)
Could use a little more context here, clearly Michelle indicated that United was seeking “volunteers”, which implies some sort of bidding process. If the bidding went as high as $ 15,000 cash and the flight was performed, I’d call that a success. It’s hard to know until we get more context on this one.
And when refunding the difference in fares airlines play games by refunding the difference against the most expensive coach fare possible that does not exceed the cost of the paid J ticket.
Airlines need to develop better compensation packages for downgrades or be willing to rebook customers on a paid J ticket on a different carrier (including non partners) if they cannot transport their own customers in the cabin they paid.
Exactly what did United offer? If they were offering a couple of grand in cash and 100K miles they should have gotten enough volunteers.
Under the UK’s version of EU 261/2004, relating to downgrades, each of the downgraded passengers is entitled to a refund of 75% of the fare paid. See: https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers-and-public/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/downgrading/
And if the flight was delayed more than four hours waiting for takers, everyone on the flight was entitled to compensation.
The bidding should have started from there.
Equipment changes happen all the time. No cat fight? No assault against airline employee? No bare feet on armrest? Nobody acting like entitled narcissistic children?This is not newsworthy.
Remember when United was “the friendly skies?” LOL!
@TexasTJ I must have missed the part where passengers were offered $15K compensation. Was that in a different article?
Another awful post. Without knowing what, if anything, UA offered is key here.
I wouldn’t voluntarily downgrade without some compensation above and beyond the fare difference. I wouldn’t expect a reasonable person to, either. But if they offer $5k in vouchers, there would likely be takers. Why should someone take the downgrade due to an operational issue, solely out of the goodness of their hearts?
$2k + 75k would not enough for me to accept a downgrade to a middle E- seat on a 10hr flight (particularly nighttime TATL where I want to sleep).
Putting me in business on the next flight out + compensation would do the trick (or even routing through another hub). But UA ground staff is often inflexible or maybe is not empowered to find creative solutions.
Many biz travelers fly on company-paid tix – they need to be well-rested and won’t downgrade. Ditto for paid C who may have paid anywhere from $2-5k for the seat.
O’Hare and United is the combination I was screwed on around ten years ago. I have kept away from both since. United has a major hub at O’Hare, in fact it is their home hub. From looking at SeatGuru, UA has three configurations of the 767-300. If that was the airplane swapped out for another one the had less business seats, it makes sense. Those staying in business get lie flat seats. Those downgraded to coach get a cabin that has many more coach seats and the extra seats are at the front of the coach section. In fact, unless a lot more passengers were added in addition to the number on the original aircraft, each business traveler downgraded should have been able to have an empty seat next to them. That would partially make up for the narrow coach seats. Some may have been able to get plus seats.
This is United what do you expect
I prefer Delya or AA
Sounds like the downgraded passengers did nothing wrong and the fault was with UA for failing to raise compensation fast enough to entice them to accept Economy.
Gary, I read your first paragraph:
“Yesterday I wrote about United Airlines cancelling a flight because business class passengers wouldn’t give up their Polaris sets and moving to middles in the back quickly enough. That was on a Los Angeles to London flight on Sunday.”
. . . and I followed your link. United didn’t cancel that flight. There was a mechanical problem on that flight and UA offered compensation such that they got enough volunteers so that the flight could continue.
Your summary today is wrong concerning what you previously wrote about the first flight, and there is crucial information missing from your story about this flight.
I appreciate and value your information and advice, but this article appears to be rushed.
“but no additional compensation is legally required”
Isn’t that not the case here? The flight was operating to the UK, therefore EU261/UK261 would come into play. Particularly as an aircraft swap would be considered operational and almost certainly eligible for compensation under EU261/UK261.
If a passenger is involuntarily denied boarding, logic says that they’d reach their destination 3hrs late (perhaps not actually the case here given ORD-LHR frequency). This would trigger additional delay compensation alongside still getting them to their destination.
At least United are communicating with their passengers. Delta once bumped me from my original (delayed) flight to another flight (involved a rerouting from original itinerary) and downgraded me in the process. Only found out when I got to the seat – no-one thought to mention it before that which I felt was very underhanded. I would expect anyone in that situation to be unhappy. Delta eventually handed me back $600 credit six months later (which was not fair compensation imo).
This article doesn’t even make sense. The airline can simply change your ticket and boot you back to coach, and your alternatives are take that reassignment, wait for a later flight with business availability, or take a refund and buy a ticket on another airline or not travel at all.
If they delayed the flight while looking for volunteers, that means United was trying to offer enough compensation to get 13 people to move back to coach and be happy about it, which I would consider GOOD service by an airline that can contractually just boot you and refund you the difference to some obscene day-of-purchase coach fare.
@Boraxo – I’m presuming that the passengers would also get proportional refunds because otherwise you’re right that it just wouldn’t be worth it.
@Gary, so United did an equipment change that led to fewer business class seats before the plane boarded and then tried to find volunteers to downgrade? This is SOP. If they started boarding the plane and you had 13 people trying to fight over the same seat assignment in business class you’d have a mess. How on earth is this news or journalism or interesting at all? Like why are you sharing this? It must be a really slow news day…
United Airlines has become a second rate airlines with all these recent happenings. I never fly United anymore because they have become so unreliable with there customer service and business practices. A great deal of bad news coming from them
I would never fly United. It started when the airline caused Dr. David Said to be manhandled, love see teeth and be humiliated. Now they want business class passengers to switch to coach on a 10 hour international flight? Nope. Here’s hoping United is investigated by the regulatory agencies
For me the right compensation would be Global Services status for this year and next. That’s what it would take.
Well UAL at IAD make ORD look like a good option. In fact IAD makes any city look like a good alternative.
The moral of the story is this. If LHR was not your final destination, you should have flown LH, AF, KL or any other. UK is no longer EU. So the flight is not subject to EU 261 rules.
It’s not true a passenger downgraded is only entitled to fare difference… eu/uk 261 would apply and they would be entitled to 75% refund of the fare or if they waited more then 4 hours for an alternative flight £520/€600.
It’s not volunteering if you’re effectively threatened that if you don’t do it the entire plane will be denied boarding. Plus if they deny the entire plane boarding they would risk owing 300 people compensation, plus re-accommodation costs.
@LLLL – US carriers departing the US are not covered by UK261
We booked a trip through AA, flight from ORD>LHR was on BA. We booked business class, paid cash. At the last minute they did an equipment swap and downgraded us to “premium economy”. We were offered nothing, just a “take it or leave it” shrug. To make matters worse, we’d paid BA to select our business class seats, over $300US. No offer to refund us. And my “premium economy” seat was broken, no recline and the IFE was broken. They also ran out of the only meal I could eat (allergy), so no food.
It took over two months of getting the runaround by AA and BA, but after filing with DoT and the UK equivalent, we finally got refunded over $2500 and 12K points by AA and got the $300 refunded by BA. Just have to be persistent.
This would have been a day spoiler for sure. I would have waited until they started offering whatever, then just booked another flight. But I realize that lots of pax don’t have that luxury, they have to arrive when they’re scheduled. This is just an ‘unlucky’ situation and frankly, I’m surprised it doesn’t happen more often.
So many people here defending the big corporation airline. Always wonder is it bots or people really have been brain washed into always sympathizing with the poor big corporation.
The equipment change is not the passengers problem. Instead of holding people hostage, the airlines should have already figured out what they could do to mitigate the issue. Its unacceptable to delay people for what is clearly their fault. too bad we do not have laws to provide just compensation.
@ Gary
EU 261 covers to Or from EU.
@Alan Z – UK261 applies to/from UK only if a UK carrier. For a US carrier it applies only departing UK.
A few years ago I was flying IAD-GVA scheduled on a UA 767, a/c went MX and they moved the flight to a 757, coach was fairly empty but biz was full so needless to say there were a lot of biz passengers without a seat. They offered me $2000, a hotel, a bunch of food vouchers and a non-stop flight the next day to my actual final destination (Paris), I was on an award ticket so I just took it, and I was rebooked in full fare J on both the outbound and return so I earned a ton of miles and PQPs on an award ticket. I ended up pretty happy but also was not in a rush to get there.
Polaris LAXLON. Or coach.
Flight attendants MUST CONTRACTUALLY HAVE LIE FLAT SEATS? False.
Try to pay attention next time Teacher is talking. Flight Attendants who can’t sleep in Coach/Economy deserve the same sympathy as PEOPLE IN POLARIS SEATS WHO DON’T WANT TO BE THERE EITHER.
UK law is irrelevant. This flight originated in LA, and that’s where the issue took place.
Actually, their United contract does call for lie flat seats on a 10+ hour flight, when crew cabins aren’t available.
@A.S. Cobb: I’m normally of the “police use of force is almost always unreasonable” perspective, but Dao had it coming. He had no right to be there and he gave the police no other option. (Obviously since then we’ve figured out just deboard the plane instead.)
United settled for the optics, not the liability.
Perhaps United should try taking better care of their equipment. Also, why 13 seats. I’ve never seen 26 flight attendants on a plane at once. Half rest while the other half work. Also, I pay the highway robbery biz class seat because I have lymphatic drainage issues and chronic back issues. If I sat in coach cramped for ten plus I’d be swollen for days. So shame on UNITED sloppy all around. I try never to fly with them, they’ve become trash and their lounges are mediocre at best. BA/AA OR DELTA to LHR, often the better options.
Just another reason why I refuse to fly United. They use to be great. Their business class offering are at the very best mediocre. They refuse to staff their planes with enough staff. Their flight attendants run around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to make it all happen. Their planes are old and their staff has had it. I would HATE to work for United. It’s a totally different world and experience flying foreign national airlines. I don’t mind paying more to get great service. Also, whoever oversold business class should be terminated. What a horrible experience to put your paying customers through and your employees.
Remember in grade school English where you learned a story has a beginning, a middle, and an end? Those were simpler times..
UA refused to implement an A380, which easily would have accommodated everyone. Choosey passengers choose an A380 on another transatlantic airline. I do feel sorry for wage slaves who are forced by corporate to book UA.